Sound difference between 750 and 1200 W?
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 21 Registered: Mar-06 | Planning on getting an Fi Q subwoofer and trying to decide whether I should power it with an Audioque 750d or 1200d amplifier. I want to know how much difference would there be? I've read that to hear a noticeable difference you have to double the power, how accurate is that statement? Im trying to see if I can save a little money going with the 750d and also not worry about straining my stock alternator. I can buy a mint 750d right now for $125. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 22 Registered: Mar-06 | How much difference would there be between a setup of Fi SSD 12" + AQ750d and a setup of Fi Q 12" + AQ1200d? |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 987 Registered: May-09 | Doubling your power will get you 3dB SPL extra which as you have read is not much but if you are planning on a 12" and you go for a 15" you will get about the same 3 dB extra output on a 750d. Increased cone diameter = free watts. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 23 Registered: Mar-06 | Thanks for the response. What about a 10/12" ported vs. a 15" sealed as I have limited trunk space? Also, I am pretty sure I will be going with the 750d and the SSD line after much contemplation... |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 992 Registered: May-09 |  All subs at 750W RMS @ 1 ohm Yellow FiSSD 15" Sealed 2 cuft Red FiSSD 15" Ported 3 cuft @ 33Hz Red FiSSD 12" Ported 2 cuft @ 33Hz Obviously the 15" on ported kills any other configuration. And the port for the 15" will be smaller than the port on the 12" at the same tuning frequency. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 24 Registered: Mar-06 | Wow thank you so much for that! Now I have a much better understanding of what to expect. I will need to take some measurements to see if I could fit a 3.0 cuft box in my trunk. For what its worth my car is a 04 Chrysler Crossfire. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 25 Registered: Mar-06 | There is actually a decent amount of trunk space relative to the size of the car... http://images.dealerrevs.com/gallery/photo.php?id=34871969 But the opening is much smaller and I am worried a box that fills up most of that space wouldn't fit through the opening... http://l.yimg.com/dv/izp/chrysler_crossfire_srt_6_coupe_2005_other_trunk.jpg |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina Post Number: 14571 Registered: Dec-03 | The difference between 750W and 1200W is pretty straight forward. Every time you double the power, you increase the output by about +3dB. It takes 6 to 10 times the power to audibly double the output. In your case, the additional 450W will yield a gain in output of around +2dB. It will be noticeable, but not anywhere close to double the output. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1004 Registered: May-09 | Hologram, take a look at the dims if it is a too tight fit then forget the 3dB or go for the Q and the 1200D. The 15" would blast impressive though. If you have any questions about the box let me know. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 26 Registered: Mar-06 | Thank you for your help with that dilemma, I have already paid for the AQ750D so there is no going back on that one. I got it for $110 shipped and it appears to be in immaculate condition so I had to go for it. Still debating on the SSD 12" vs 15", I will take some detailed measurements sometime this weekend and make my final decision. Now Im looking at some 6.5" coaxials, tweeters and a 4-channel amp to power them. Im looking at these speakers: Polk Audio DB651 --- http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9111_Polk-Audio-db651.html Infinity Kappa 652.9i --- http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_13454_Infinity-Kappa-652.9i.html Alpine SPS-610 --- http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_34376_Alpine-SPS-610.html Am I looking in the right direction with Polk, Infinity and Alpine speakers? Looking at the Polk Audio db1001 Tweeters - http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9329_Polk-Audio-db1001.html And heres some 4-channel amps Im looking at: Infinity Reference 475a --- http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9712_Infinity-Reference-475a.html Clarion XR2410 --- http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_22478_Clarion-XR2410.html MB Quart ONX4.80 --- http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_24110_MB-Quart-ONX4.80.html MB Quart REF4.80 --- http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_25535_MB-Quart-REF4.80.html Im definitely open to any suggestions for speakers/tweeters/amp that are in the same price range as these. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1011 Registered: May-09 | Ok Hologram, about the amps from those you researched the MB Quarts have proven to be excellent sounding and cost effective so I would get either. And the AQ for $110 shipped, I would have taken that deal also.. Regarding the speakers, you are looking at some of the right brands, I would like to know though if you have considered component speakers and since you are looking at a four channel amp, what will you be powering with your 4 channels? |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 27 Registered: Mar-06 | Well my car has 2 stock 6.5" Infiniti sub woofers mounted behind each seat, I was planning on powering them with the other 2 channels. This is also the reason I am looking at coaxials instead of components, because I believe these will give me enough mid bass and I can just upgrade the tweeters in the doors. Or would I just be better off getting component speakers, mounting the woofers in the current woofer location and mounting the tweeters in the doors and then getting the coaxials for the doors? |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 28 Registered: Mar-06 | So the MB Quarts will put out the rated power then? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1013 Registered: May-09 | Yes they do and very clean power too, regarding the components, well yes, will sound better than coaxes due to superior the crossover networks and matched tweeter to midbass output they have but it only matters if you are looking for a SQ setup, if you only care about strong highs you can just place the extra tweeters and be done with it. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 31 Registered: Mar-06 | Polk Audio DB6501 --- http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9109_Polk-Audio-db6501.html Well these components would be only $50 more than the tweeters I was looking at so it seems like a worthwhile investment. I would match them with the Polk Audio coaxials. And I guess I would get the MB Quart FX4.100 amp for only $10 more so I could feed the 100 RMS that the components are rated at... http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33005_MB-Quart-FX4.100.html |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1014 Registered: May-09 | Those comps are powerful and well balanced also very inexpensive and the extra power will also help the 6.5 subs so I think that you just have to decide on the sub and you are all set, if you want some suggestions on a custom enclosure let me know. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 32 Registered: Mar-06 | Well Joe I was planning on getting the components, putting the woofer from the comp set in the current subwoofer location and mounting the tweeter in the door and also getting coxials and putting those in the door. That would be about $180 for both of them. Now I can get the Polk MM6501 component set for $180 and Im wondering if getting just those and keeping the stock subs would be better than the cheaper Polk comps + coaxials. What do you think? And yes I will definitely be looking for your help with the enclosure once I take some measurements, I've seen some of your box designs over in the subwoofer forum and I will certainly need your help! |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1017 Registered: May-09 | My guess is that the Infinity woofers will hit harder than a mid woofer form a comp set, as for going for the Polk MM6501, well those are a quite frankly high-endish components, only if your HU is a $150+ from Pioneer or Alpine then you will hear an obvious improvement. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 33 Registered: Mar-06 | I will be getting the Pioneer MVH-P7300 head unit http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_32870_Pioneer-MVH-P7300.html#tabs Maybe Im getting a little carried away...I might just stick with the DB components and the stock subs then... |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1018 Registered: May-09 | That's a great HU, you can base a SQ system on it. Do your research on both and audition if you can to see if its worth to going for the MMs. One way or the other components are a big step up over coaxes. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 35 Registered: Mar-06 | Well I decided that I really don't need to run the stock Infinity subs. Im sure I will have bass to spare with the SSD and the mids from the components should be enough in my tiny car. I saw this Kicker that is rated at 100 x 2 @ 4 ohms bridged and I think I will be going this route. http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_21906_Kicker-DX200.4-08DX200.4.html There are barely any reviews online for this amp, probably because not many people are looking to buy and amp that is only rated 25 x 4 but I figure since its a Kicker it should reliable. It looks like a perfect fit for my components and at $100 its a real bargain. Plus it has a much smaller footprint and should be easier to find room for both amps with my limited space. I also decided on the Polk DB components and I will be getting a Knukonceptz 4 gauge amp kit + a fused distribution block also from Knu. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1028 Registered: May-09 | Ok, you will be going with a sub and a component set, my suggestion for a 2 channel amp with adequate power to drive those comps would be: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_26850_JL-Audio-J2-360.2-J2360.2.html It's really cheap for what it is. The 4 gauge will be more than enough for your setup. And regarding your electrical, you don't need any upgrades but make sure your battery and cabling are in good shape. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 36 Registered: Mar-06 | I've been looking at amps extensively on that site over the last few days and I'm surprised I didn't see that one. After a little browsing I found the newer version of the amp- the JX360/2 from a seller on Amazon for the same price. Looks much better than the Kicker and I'll probably ending getting it unless I find an even better deal lol...Im just glad I am not an impulse shopper. And yes I decided to hold off on the big 3 upgrade until I install my system to see if its necessary. My battery is only a few months old so I think I am good with that for a while. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 38 Registered: Mar-06 | So I took some measurements of my trunk and they are 35" Wide x 23" Deep x 14" Height. The opening of the trunk is about 23" x 32". Obviously a box with the maximum dimensions wouldn't fit through the opening. I'm thinking something along the lines of 26" x 14" x 13". Using the calculator on bcae1 those dimensions give me a net volume of 1.87 cu ft. What do you think of those dimensions? |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 39 Registered: Mar-06 | What do you think about that JL JX 360/2 versus this Boston Acoustics GTA-802? http://www.crutchfield.com/S-K2u4lK8BXu8/p_065GTA802/Boston-Acoustics-GTA-802.ht ml#overview-tab With a promo code it comes out to $115, the same as the JL, but I could get the warranty from Crutchfield that I wouldn't get with the JL. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1065 Registered: May-09 | Well the Boston has lesser output power, below of that the Polks can take, if you don't mind that then I don't expect any particular issues with it. Their value line of speakers were unremarkable sounding to me but I don't know about their amps. Obviously anything can happen but the subwoofer amp is the one that needs the warranty for sure. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 40 Registered: Mar-06 | Alright Joe, so after making some make-shift boxes to see how they would fit in the trunk I have decided to go with a 10" SSD to get a cleaner look and fit into my trunk. If I am unhappy with the output I will upgrade my amp from the 750 to the 1200 to make up some of that difference. I will be ordering the sub this coming week and yes this is my final decision finally! I exchanged some messages with Nick from Fi about an enclosure for the 10" and he said that 1.2 cubes after displacements was slightly too large and he recommended going with something a tad smaller. So I'm looking at 1.0 - 1.1 cubes after displacements tuned to 33Hz. Does that sound about right? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1098 Registered: May-09 | Ok Hologram, their website says: Sealed box: H-Qts .2-.4 cuft Ported box: .6-1.2 cuft @ 33Hz So you can pick a net internal volume from 0.6 to 1.2 cubic feet, the larger the net internal volume is the better you will reach low frequencies, Two things to note is that if you are using a 1 ohm stable amplifier you need to pick the DVC 2 ohm, not the DVC 1 ohm, and secondly since that sub can only handle 1000W you would gain almost nothing by upgrading the AQ750, you would need 1500W to gain 3dB which is barely noticeable. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 41 Registered: Mar-06 | Yes I will be getting the DVC 2 ohm version and also I will be getting it with the Cooling and Internal Lead options but not the Flatwind Coil option. And just to take the advice of the guy who works for Fi, I think 1.1 net cuft sounds good. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1100 Registered: May-09 | Ok if you want an idea of the box size let me know some dims. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 42 Registered: Mar-06 | An update on my build, been a little busy the last 2 weeks. I ran into a LNIB - Blaupunkt VA2100 amplifier for $75 shipped, did a little research and ended up buying it. Apparently before these were discontinued, they were the top line of Blaukpunkt amps. I read that they had been clamped to do a little over rated power and mine came with a birth sheet that reads 318 watts @ 4 ohms bridged. It arrived today and it looks brand new so I am very pleased with this purchase. http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6753_Blaupunkt-VA2100.html Also I might be getting the JBL P660C Components instead of the Polks, have read very good things about JBL speakers and these particular ones have good reviews at a comparable price. Would order them from a different site though for around ~$130. http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12260_JBL-P660C.html Working on a box design for the sub, will post up the numbers after I finish the calculations to see what you think of them. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1132 Registered: May-09 | Don't know that amp but sure looks cool! |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 43 Registered: Mar-06 | Well I will be mounting it without the trim pieces to save on space. Without the trim its a very small amp, basically identical in size to the AQ750. To be honest I don't think it looks that great but I didn't buy it for the looks so I am not too worried. What do you think about the JBL vs. Polk db6501 components? This is basically my last decision and I am leaning more towards the JBLs. JBLs run at 2 ohms so that would give me some headroom on the amp and also they have 2db higher sensitivity (94 vs 92 on the Polks). From the pictures the JBLs have a bigger magnet and just look like higher overall quality. The prices are also nearly the same so these are the reasons why I am considering the JBLs. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1136 Registered: May-09 | Well since you are getting them so cheap but are intended to be a higher priced item I guess that will hold it's own against to any entry level speakers. My impression of other JBL products I have heard is that are well suited for loud music like rock, dance, rap and anything like that. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 44 Registered: Mar-06 | Alright man thanks alot for all of your help, I will be ordering the JBL's as soon as I get the funds. |
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Bronze Member Username: HologramPost Number: 45 Registered: Mar-06 | So after many hours of contemplation and deep meditation (lol) I think I have decided to go with a 10" SSA Icon rather than the SSD. A while back I exchanged some e-mails from somebody from Fi and even though they replied and answered my questions (sort of), the responses were cookie cutter-ish and it didn't really seem like they took the time to really understand my question and answer it properly. Then a few days ago when i started really looking at the Icon, I exchanged some emails with the co-owner of SSA and he went above and beyond what I asked him and really took the time to answer my question. This experience really sold me on the Icon. Now the Icon is $100 more than the SSD and I realize a more comparable Fi sub would be the Q. I've been messing around with WinISD and when I compare the Icon 10" vs the Q 10", both at 1.1 cubes @ 33Hz, the output is nearly the same. Though from what I have read, in a real world application the Q will probably be louder but the Icon will have better SQ and I am fine with that trade-off. Also, with the Icon I have the option of going with a sealed box if I don't like the ported for whatever reason, I believe with the Fi's I wouldn't have that option. So since you have been so helpful with my setup Joe, I was wondering what you think of this decision? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1166 Registered: May-09 | Icons get lower than Qs if money is no object both are great subs, your Aq750 seems weak for an icon but you can deal with that later if you felt necessary. To compare output on WinISD you need to fill pe and SPL parameters and look at the SPL plot not the normalized. Replying slowly since not a soul comes around here anymore so I am checking less frequently for posts. I also think that you should try getting more input by going to caco,smd or diyma.. check them out. |
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