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New member Username: BierdPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-11 | Good afternoon from Iowa, USA. I'm new to this forum, primarily to get advice on this front, but I'll likely stick around too. I apologize in advance for a lengthy post. Skip to the bold for the main point of it. I have a complete car stereo, using a Kenwood Excelon headunit, Infinity Basslink, Cadence 4-channel amplifier (500RMS), Cadence 6.5 components in front, Cadence 6x9 rears, with additional Cadence tweeters in the rear doors (all factory locations). Car is a 1999 Chrysler 300M. I'm constantly adjusting everything to find that "right sound," but I'm at a point of thinking that I should have spent more money on speakers. I was an idiot and bought some of the cheapest speakers Cadence had to offer, but doing some searching around here, I read that you should spend more on speakers than amps (which I assumed the contrary at first). So round-two in the speaker market. The speakers that I have, for the record, sound decent for how much they cost. But the crossovers seem to be poorly implemented in the front, and having full-range rear deck and another set of tweeters in the door yielded bizarre results (good for the rear-seat soundstage, poor because of the frequency peaks), not to mention the sound character of the front speakers vs the rear is vastly different. Long story short, the tweeters that I have are too harsh for my tastes (I have my eq mostly flat, except a dramatic 10k-ish drop-off). My plan is to buy two of the same component sets (6.5" or smaller), one for the front, and one for the rear. I went to Best Buy to sample brands, but they don't carry much for me to try. What speaker brands (and lines) do you guys and gals recommend for having tweeters described as being "smooth," perhaps even "subdued?" Also, the factory Infinity system in my car had 3" 2-way speakers in the sail (3" mids, 3/4" tweeter), which I think is a great idea to bring much of the soundstage closer to ear-level. Are there any component sets with large "tweeters" as such? Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 798 Registered: May-09 | Welcome Bierd, high quality components smooth sounding can be DLS and Rainbow, Dynaudio of cour$e to name a few but it all depends on your price range, as a general rule silk/textile soft dome tweeters produce that smooth sound. It all depends on how much are you willing to pay. |
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New member Username: BierdPost Number: 2 Registered: Nov-11 | Thanks for the suggestions and tip. My budget is not great. I plan to spend up to $180-ish per pair. Are you aware of any sets with larger tweeters (upwards of 1.5 inches)? I've never seen any myself, except a Cadence 3-way (I want to stick with 2), but it's worth a try. If there are any, I might be willing to go higher. I did a quick search on Amazon and opened several, one by Polk, one by JL audio, one by JBL, one by Boston Acoustics, and a couple of the higher-end Cadence models; all of which have silk-dome tweeters. How do you guys feel about any of those brands? All brands, with the exception of JL and the Cadence lines, I've heard in various applications (mostly home) and was satisfied with their performances. Also, my amp is rated for 125rms/channel and most of these speakers top out at around 100. Is 125rms only true when pushing full gain on the amplifier (mine are set to under half)? I'm kind of a newb on some of this stuff. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 812 Registered: May-09 | A few years back there were the Polk DX component set with 1.5" tweets. I think you will be happy with these: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_20992_JL-Audio-C2-650.html |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina Post Number: 14565 Registered: Dec-03 | these are my suggestions: first, take the tweeters out of the rear. you only want midbass in back, so run your 6x9s in series, and bridge the rear 2 channels of that 4 channel amp, so the rear 6x9s are in mono. Now, cross those speakers over so that they only play from around 200Hz up to about 2500Hz. This will give you much better soundstage and imaging. Next, look at the front speaker locations. If anything is blocking any of the speakers, consider moving them to a new mounting location, such as the kick panel area. Also sound deaden the doors and trunk of the vehicle, and give some thought to a good 12" sub with a dedicated class D sub amp instead of that basslink. These steps will greatly improve the sound of that system. If you insist on new tweeters, look at silk domes or ribbons over neodymium. Silk and ribbons are usually very laid back and smooth, but this will also depend on your crossover points, slopes, and general system setup as well. |
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Silver Member Username: AlonzoubPost Number: 313 Registered: Apr-10 | In addition to what the other folks have said... No your amp does not push 125rms when it is at "max" gain. The gain on an amplifier has a main objective of matching the input signal level to the level of amplification the amp will provide. For example depending on how you tuned everything, your head unit pre-outs may send a ~1.7 voltrms signal to your amplifier when playing a sine-wave at your "normal" listening volume, versus someone elses head-unit that may send out a ~4.5 voltrms signal at the pre-amp stage under the same conditions. The purpose of the gain is to be able to match that incoming signal.If your signal is strong it is very possible to achieve the maximum rated output of the amplifier without ever turning the gain past half-way. In the same regard, if your signal is VERY weak it is possible that the amp will not reach its rated output even with the gain cranked up to max; this scenario however, is much less likely. If you want to read more: http://www.bcae1.com/gaincon2.htm |
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Silver Member Username: ShopvacPost Number: 102 Registered: Jul-10 | Not trying to hijack this thread but I am a bit confused by a statement made in GlassWolf post above.. "you only want midbass in back, so run your 6x9s in series, and bridge the rear 2 channels of that 4 channel amp, so the rear 6x9s are in mono." I have read quite a few post on midbass on other forums and I think if I recall well, they were saying that midbass is still stero not mono ? Can someone please clarify? |
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Silver Member Username: AlonzoubPost Number: 314 Registered: Apr-10 | In the case of running speakers BEHIND you, it is normally called "rear fill". Most of the time when rear fill is used it is wired in a mono configuration and played softer than the front stage being there solely for midbass reinforcement (bandpassed w/o tweeters) The fronstage midbass continues to be stereo, if thats what you are confused about. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 983 Registered: May-09 | "you only want midbass in back" "cross those speakers over so that they only play from around 200Hz up to about 2500Hz." |
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Silver Member Username: ShopvacPost Number: 104 Registered: Jul-10 | thanks guys, I have a better understanding now... |
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New member Username: BierdPost Number: 3 Registered: Nov-11 | Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'm running an ideal solution for me right now. I found PowerBass 2.75" midrange-tweeters, so I ordered a few sets along with matching woofers for the front doors. Now my Excelon is powering the four midrange-tweeters and the amp is set to low-pass power the front door woofers and rear deck. On their way are two 10" free-air subwoofers that I will mount in the rear deck in place of the 6x9s...I've been satisfied with the basslink, but it'll be nice having the bass feed directly into the cabin. If all goes well, I'll sell the basslink. I've had the 2.75s in for a while now and I can attest that having more midrange at near-ear level is great. The speakers are cheap, but I'm still hearing so much more detail all around and the vocals are much "thicker" and more present. Small tweeters paired with low-mounted midbass just didn't cut it for me anymore. One thing that I have noticed, however, is that the driver hears a lot of driver-side and passenger hears a lot of passenger-side on center-pan signal (in the front). I've got another set of 2.75s at home with which I will reinstall one speaker to the factory center-dash location to provide some filler.. I finally understand why that was there. I've got my hopes high on that. I know a lot of you say that the rear shouldn't have any highs, but I respectfully disagree. Maybe in a coupe, but what I've been striving for is good sound throughout the vehicle. Thankfully, Infinity and Chrysler did a good job with factory locations, so the imaging requires virtually no work on my part. I've sat in the rear, and it sounds fantastic not having the vocals behind you (the midrange-tweeters are mounted in front of the door handles). Also, great channel separation. I've always used Dave Matthews Band's "Crush" as a test for imaging and it blew my mind when trying out the rear seat. Separation is great up front too, but the panned vocals distract, so I'm hoping the center fill will allow the same effect as the rear seat. So that's where I'm at right now. After the two 10" are installed, I'll probably call myself done with this car. The most I could see myself doing in the future is a 10+ band EQ and/or sound deadening. I'm going to try to live without the EQ, and I probably won't do the deadening unless it makes incredible results on my brother's Vibe. No rattles whatsoever in mine, but I've heard it's good for other things too. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, South Carolina Post Number: 14572 Registered: Dec-03 | the issue with your stereo separation is caused basically by poor speaker placement and beaming issues as a result thereof. |