Nikon D70 vs Canon Rebel (300D)
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page| Thread | Last Poster | Posts | Last Post | |
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| Archive through August 15, 2005 | Chris Laudermilk | 100 |
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Unregistered guest | I read the debate on Canon 20D vs D70 with great interest. Although I have not gone out to purchase one, I have pretty much made up my mind on the 20D for the following reasons: 1) I know there is not much difference between 6.1 and 8.2 mega pixtal, but when it comes down to cropping, Canon 20D with its higher resolution will make a different. 2) One of the major features of the 20D has not been mentioned in this forum: 20D can take black and white photos in one of its standard settings (350D can do the same). It also comes with built in filters for more creative photography. I know you can do the same with Nikon by using Photoshop on your computer, but for me it is too troublesome. I do have a question though. I do a lot of travelling, taking photos of landscapes, people, etc. I only want to carry 2 lenses with me. Can someone advise me which 2 I should get, assuming my budget for the lenses is around 1) 1,000; 2) $1,500 and 3) $2,000? Really looking forward to your advice. Ricky |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3453 Registered: Dec-03 | In all actuality, the D70 is not meant to compete with the 20D. The D70 was meant to compete with Canon's Rebel. Nikon has been sitting on its butt and has nothing to offer against the 20D. For lenses check on these this a definite must have on your lens http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=150&m odelid=7469 This is for general walking around lens. You may need the slightly wide angle on this. http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=149&m odelid=10511 and this extra 3rd lens for portraits. http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=152&m odelid=7307 |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 187 Registered: Sep-04 | As Berny said, and I've mentioned before, the D70 and 20D are not direct competitors. Berny made some good choices overall. #1 is at the top of my to-buy list; I was planning on getting the non-IS until I got to use an IS lens, the 70-200/2.8IS is a fantastic lens and is well worth the $1600 price tag. The 17-85 has a decent reputation, though I have not used it. I have the 50/1.8 Mk I and love it, from what I've heard the 1.4 is just as sharp & that extra stop makes for very nice bokeh when you've got it opened up. Another popular lens on the 20D for portraits is the 85/1.8 (or if you've got the money the 85/1.4--I wish I could afford to put that one on the list). For wide-angle landscapes the 10-22 and 16-40 are also nice. FWIW, I have never used the B&W or any of the other in-camera processing. PS does a much better job of it. I shoot exculsively RAW and take advantage of the greater processing power of the PC to make the developing steps. Many of these steps (like B&W) are literally a button click with actions available for free or cheap. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3467 Registered: Dec-03 | Get your wallet out Chris. Canon just announced the EOS-5D  |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 188 Registered: Sep-04 | LOL I've been watching all the hysterical rumours threads for the past month & took a look at the "leaked" PDF. While it looks nice, I'll stick with my 20D for a while. The full-frame would be nice, but that and the true spot meter are really all I'd be interested in. It's not worth spending another $3500 for a piece I already have. I need some good glass first. |
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Unregistered guest | Berny..You seem to help people. i connected by JVC thru DV port and firewire, I can control the playback using the computer and Pinnacle Studio 9..but nothing gets captured..as if there was on signal coming out. Any ideas. Would be grateful |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3549 Registered: Dec-03 | Edz you are in the wrong forum. Don't hijack this one. |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Greetings ya'll, I'm a beginner and looking to buy my first camera, I've read and got many recommendations to finally settle with either Nikon D70 or Canon 350D. I've read many revews and checked the specs, prices..etc I can tell you that D70 looks better, not untill I saw 350D photos. I went to PBase website and used their "photo by camera" search feature and start refreshing the pages (they toss few photos randomly taken by any camera you choose) now I did this like 50 times to compare both camers. The pictures taken by 350D are waaay better. The colors look more, mm saturated? more Movie Like. The Quality is really better(is this the ISO 100 to 200 difference?). Check it out yourself: The link below randomly shows photos taken by EOS 350D Camera, keep pressing the Refresh/Reload button on your browser for more photos: http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/eos_350d The link below randomly shows photos taken by Nikon D70 Camera, keep pressing the Refresh/Reload Button on your browser for more photos: http://www.pbase.com/cameras/nikon/d70s I even asked my friend to pick a picture himself (and not telling me if its D70 or 350D) I could tell which camera it is because 350D colors are better and slightly better quality. I was thinking maybe because the people who used D70 just don't know how to use, and thus comes the question. I'm looking for a camera that can take rich colors (more saturated?) if I wanted it to, I like the Movie-Quality shots I've seen for the 350D and I wonder if I can do this with D70. I hate automated things and I tend to like messing around with setting so, more options in a camera is a plus for me. What do you suggest? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3602 Registered: Dec-03 | You seem to have made up your mind. By all means pick what you think will make you take more professional looking photos. You really should know more about photography before you take the plunge. Learn about proper metering, Focal points, shutter speeds, composition, depth of field, etc. The differences you see are not ISO differences. It is much more than that. To make proper comparisons, the pictures should be of the same subject and the same overall conditions and not random pictures compared side by side. There is the saturation mode to consider, then there is the lens...very big factor. There's exposure compensation, etc. Since you are a beginner, you really should step back and think before you start speaking about how to judge pictures. I do not mean to insult you but, ever since this new more affordable DSLRs flooded the market the photographer wannabes started coming out of the woodwork. A lot of them buy the camera (D70 or the Rebel- it is irrelevant) thinking that they would be the next Tenneson, Adams or Fong. They seem to be greatly disappointed that their pictures do not come out as kodak perfect as they thought it would be in their heads. Since you could tell the difference between which camera took which picture, then you really should buy the camera that will not disappoint. If you want the Digital Rebel with the movie quality shots go for it. Just try not to be disappointed when your shots do not come out as great as the pictures you've seen on the websites. The camera is a tool, the photographer behind the camera takes the picture. He/she has to know how to look at a shot and compose properly. He/she needs to understand the effect of the aperture they've chosen and the relationship to the shutter speed. He/she has to learn how to adjust to changing light, because he understands that the camera does not see things the way human eyes see things. Since you like to mess around with the settings, you have to understand these things first. Otherwise you will end up with far worse pictures than the people who made this website you accuse of not knowing how to use their camera. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 190 Registered: Sep-04 |
 Is that ever a good observation. Both cameras with good lenses can make excellent pictures, it's more a matter of the skill of the user than the technical capability of the camera. Once you get the files to the computer, postprocessing can make it virtually impossible to tell the difference between cameras. Remember, some of the biggest names in photography used what was considered to be junky cameras to produce some of the most well-known images; we tend to get too caught up in the gear. The first attempts are not going to be spectacular, but you should learn from them. Hang around some of the sites that do critiquing & get an idea of how to look at a photo critically, post some of yours to get help on how to improve. Also, go get some books on basic photography. Adams' books are still excellent, John Hedgecoe has several good one as well. I know I'm forgetting some. As to choosing the camera, I assume you don't already have an invesmtent in Canon or Nikon lenses, so go into a store & play with the two & pick the one that feels better to you. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3667 Registered: Dec-03 | And don't forget those that are so hung up megapixels. |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Thank you Berny and Chris for your input. I'm not expecting to take good shots at the beginning, but I do want to know what I can do with the camera I'm going to buy. If Nikon D70 can not give me that rich colors 350D shows (even if I'm an expert) then I'd go for E350. To tell you the truth, I really want to buy Nikon D70 IF its possible to reach that picture and color quality of a 350D camera. If this is true, I'd definitely go and buy D70 because it looks better. I know this sound like a silly reason but I told ya I'm a beginner hehe. The other reason I'd prefer D70 over 350D (if D70 can match the quality of 350D) is that D70 has more options. I hate to be limited to less Metering (my friend taught me about centered, spot , segmented..etc) and I'm looking forward to have more options in my camera thats a BIG plus. But if its true that D70 colors and quality doesn't match the 350D I guess.. I'll reconsider? Check this page out, and you'd see what I mean by better Colors and Quality (the comparison is between 300D and D70 and I was told that 350D is even better than 300D) http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/page15.asp This is the HARDEST purchase I've ever experienced in my whole life. Never in my life I was so hesitating and confused about something. The products feels so damn close in terms of Quality/Price and I can not make up my mind. I really need the help. Thank you |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3717 Registered: Dec-03 | It is really hard to persuade anyone who has little to no photographic experience on what he or she may need in a camera. Right now you have no niche, your shooting style is unknown. I don't know the type of photographs that you are going to take. A lot of photographers after a while start settling into different areas of photography and their equipment would reflect that lean. You have your portrait/people person, the street photography, nature/wildlife, weddings, etc. You are having a hard time because you are focusing on features and things that you have only a vague idea of. Both are great cameras and colors from each camera can be boosted or muted by various methods and each can be manipulated to increase the strength of one and the weakness of the other. But do not forget that the 300D is now being rendered obsolete by both the D70 AND the new Digital Rebel from Canon. The 350 was Canon's answer to the D70, again, newer technology better specs, but not by much. so, you really need to forget the 300D and concentrate on the 350 and D70-S comparison Okay so that is not probably helping. Let me put it to you another way. Colors can be manipulated and the pictures being shown on the monitor will be different from the printed material. A great photograph will print well, no matter the type of camera. you just have to now how to print and enlarge properly. And do not get in the megapixel debacle, it is irrelevant, unless the difference is at least 4 times. It matters but not in the way a lot of people think. here read up on this site. This is a Nikon-centric site so keep that in mind when reading the material. but most of it makes sense. |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Hello again Berny, I thank you for your swift reply I really appreciate it. I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough earlier, I am looking forward to take indoor and outdoor pictures of people mostly with say artistic poses. I want to take a picture of an old lady walking down the street and her facial expression accurately described with great detail. I want to take a picture of a girl with blue eyes and I want to see REAL blue eyes (even if it looks exaggerated, I'd like a more fantasy look to my picture). I'm not looking forward to print these pictures because I mainly want to just publish them in the web. I'd print a few but the most important thing is they'd have to look good on my PC. I'm also looking forward to play with my picture using Adobe Photoshop adding an even more artistic or fantasy look to them. I don't want to take a picture of many people (like weddings or sports) I'm more into individual subject/person. Aye, I'm really considering 350D and D70s but I can not make a final decision. I don't know why but I feel that the D70s has the "options" I need but I have no idea, whatsoever, if I'm going to be "needing" these options? so I can not tell. What I know is, 350D colors and quality looks better from what I've seen (I could be wrong) maybe its the ISO100 to 200 difference maybe its CMOS and CCD technology? or maybe I was fooled to believe that? thus, why I'm here to ask for help. I will also be limited to one lens for along time, I won't be invseting on another lens anytime soon (or maybe never). So, the "get better lenses and Camera A should beat Camera B" idea is not an option for me. I'm willing to learn everything about that specific model and dig the web, I'd "enjoy" learning actually. I'd feel better if my pictures improves gradually. So, high learning curve doesn't bother me. I wan't a flexable camera with alot of option but also I want good quality photos. However, the best quality Camera should take the care for me. Better Quality beats More Options (although it hurts when I say that). Did I mention this is the hardest purchase decision I've EVER considered?.. I'm sorry Help.. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3718 Registered: Dec-03 | Oy, well then that narrows it down. Let me amke it a bit more difficult for you in trying to make a decision Let us get over the colors and ISO200/100 difference, those can be easily manipulated CCD and CMOS difference is a matter ofpreference and one has its adavantages over the other in differing areas that photographers really don't care about. As long as it takes the photos they want that is what they will use. Canon and Nikon will always to one-up each other and will only benefit us. The quality of pictures will depend largely on the lenses you will use. Canon and Nikon make some of the best lenses and with either camera, the lenses are both good. Now the 350D is very much geared towards the beginning user as it has a lot of automatic controls and differing shooting options that takes the user out of the equation. The D70 on the other hand has a lot of m user controls, and yes it allow the the photographer to be more heavily involved in the picture makig decision. Now if you will be mainly focusing on using the pics on the web again you will have to do some manipulation on the pictures that either camera takes so that should not factor in. What then, with both cameras being so close? It now boils down to user controls. I find the Nikon to have better manual controls. Canon uses a lot of automatic features. Then the price, which one is more affordable. For the lenses, tough break... they are both expensive and will usually cost more than the camera itself. having used both cameras...they are both good quality and if you base it on that, it will take forever to decide which is better |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 191 Registered: Sep-04 | These two cameras are so close it realy is a tough decision. The Canon does have manual settings available as well. For a good, in-depth review of each, look here: http://www.steves-digicams.com/cameras_digpro.html He is quite thorough & has sample shots of the same scene for all his tests. At this level I think it really boils down to which interface philosophy works better for you and who has the better lenses for what you are going to be shooting--and that's a pretty narrow difference any more. And like Berny says, forget about the megapixel comparison & CCD vs CMOS; those are irrevelant with these cameras. I think if you have a CF card and a friendly camera shop available to you, go in and play with the two cameras for a while & take some shots on your card. Then compare your results from each camera. I haven't personally played with either (I was shopping 20D vs D100 & have used both), but between these I'd probably lean towards the Nikon as it seems their controls are a little better laid out to me |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Thanks Berny and Chris again, So, if ISO and CCD/CMOS makes no difference I guess I'd go with D70s! but I have one question, check this photo: http://www.pbase.com/luminous/image/37696923&exif=Y Now, the Nikon reseller here doesn't sell the whole kit so I have to buy it seperately. Now, he said that the lense that comes with D70s kit is 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 G-AFS ED-IF. So, can you tell (by watching the Full Exis in the link above) if that guy used the lense am going to buy? If it is the same lense then I "should" be able to take same quality pictures right? if this is true then I guess I've finally made a decision. If not, then I'd love to know the model of the lense he used to take that photo. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3730 Registered: Dec-03 | Are you sure you want to know? I don't want to discourage you but... here is my take on this photograph Lens used 85mm f/1.4D - Cost- about $1000 Judging from the bokeh of the background it is more than likely the 1.4D as opposed to the 1.8D which produces a sharper background. Definitely not the kit lens. 2 softboxes - one on the high right side of the subject and the other probaly used as a catch light for the eyes at more than likely 2-3 stops down. A reflector was used on the left side of the subject to soften the shadows on the subjects nose and under the chin. There is also a light placed behind the subject, placed high above the head and pointed to the background to light the hair and the muslin background. This set-up will probably set you back another $1500-2000. A wonderful photograph to be cherished by both the parents and the daughter...priceless. This photogrpah was taken by someone who has an excellent grasp on the art of lighting and years of experience. Now, as for your dealer. I will not buy one from a dealer who claims they do not have the whole kit and want to sell it to you in pieces. I know that the demand for this particular camera is higher than Nikon or even Canon anticipated, but they have caught up in production, hence they were able to introduce the D70-S rather quickly. I suggest that you insist on getting the kit or you will take your business elsewhere. Adorama and B&H still sell the kit and I believe there is still a rebate. The lens that came with the kit is a great and versatile starter lens and come highly recommended. Buy separate lenses later once you have learned the basics. Your next purchase after the kit would have to be the SB-800 Speedlight and not another lens! The built-in speedlight is great but I don't like direct flash. How much is this dealer going to charge you for buying everything that comes with the kit separately? |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Hello Berny, That photo inspired me and I really, really... REALLY want to take pictures of such quality, for my family. When I saw that I can afford the D70s I was amazed, unfortunately, I just noticed its not as easy as I thought. I'm willing to buy the lense if it costs $1000 or less. I live in Kuwait, so we just have one dealer here and they ran out of the whole kit package. Actually, its the last D70s they have right now. Good thing about buying it seperately now, it encourage me to get the 85mm f/1.4D lense instead and it should cost less than buying the whole kit + 85mm f/1.4D lense. The price he gave me for the 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 G-AFS ED-IF lense + body + 1GB UltraII (or something like that) memory card and you know the rest of the stuff that comes with the camera body + 1 year warranty (very essential since I live in Kuwait). That should cost 410KD its around $1200 USDollars. The Price at B&H is $1140 (which is almost the same) but I get better Memory Card (Ultra and 1GB) + Warranty. Now, if you recommend buying the lense that guy used instead of the Kit Lense then it should cost less than buying the whole kit + the good lense. What do you think? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3733 Registered: Dec-03 | Since you are a beginner, I really would not recommend that lens as it is not very versatile. I would still recommend the 18-70mm DX lens that came with the kit. If you want a good lens that can do the same shot, I recommend the 50mm f/1.8D like the one here. You could accomplish the same pictures that inspired you by using this lens. http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/5018daf.htm it's all about the lighting. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 192 Registered: Sep-04 | While that 85/1.4 is a great lens (I lust after Canon's version), it isn't a good choice for a beginner. That wide of an aperture (the f/1.4, & in the picture you linked, f/1.8) makes for a very thin depth of field & you really have to know exactly (and I mean EXACTLY) where your focus point is. The slower kit zoom lens would be a better one to get some experience with. Look closely at the picture: her face is in focus, but by the time the distance is to her ear, it's out of focus; that shot definitley took some time & experience to set up. It sounds like the memory card he's selling you is the SanDisk Ultra II 1GB, which is a very good card--that's what I use. They can be had for $75-$100 depending on where you get it & what sale is on. The camera won't come with one in the Nikon kit. As for the warranty, that's not an extra. Check B&H's site: D70s kit, with Lexar 80x card (not a bad card, about equivalent to the SanDisk as long as you're not using Canon) and 18-70 lens is $1200. Without lens, $915; and just the body $900. The Nikon 50/1.8 is $105. Or even better, they have a kit with the body, 18-70 and 55-200 for $1370. Add the SanDisk at $90 or Lexar at $97 and you're ready for most anything. If it were my money, I'd get the full kit (body, 18-70 lens & Lexar card) plus the 50/1.8 lens. Now there is the versatility of a good zoom range and a good prime lens to play with. The internet is a wonderful thing for consumers-we aren't stuck with just the local retailer if they don't have what we want. I do, in fact have the Canon 50/1.8 for my kit and it's a great lens and could produce the kind of shot you linked--I just have to stand a little closer to the subject than with an 85mm. |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Thanks again Berny and Chris, Ok, I've made up my mind, Nikon D70s is my camera and I'll get the whole kit too with the 18-70mm lense. I just read that the SanDisk Ultra II 1GB (and yes its the one you mentioned) it has the WA technology which is a plus over the one in the B&H website. Does the price in B&H include shipping and handling? you know I live in Kuwait so usually shipping costs at least $80-$100 and I really feel insecure about shipping a very fragile item like this. Did you say I can buy a f/1.8 camera that could give me (almost) the same quality of the photo I linked earlier for $105? that's great! "It's all about the lightning" - Now that's scaring me because I wonder how many months/years it should take for me to understand lightning to make good photos like that. Any good book you'd recommend for the D70s or for DSLR or SLRs in general teaches beginners the basic techniques of everything related to photography, lightning..etc? Do you think the guy used Photoshop to adjust the girl's face/hair to make it look that good or is it 100% pure picture from the Camera? (and how can you tell?) I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3734 Registered: Dec-03 | Chris was referring to a lens (not a camera), the same one I would recommend. The Nikon 50mm f/1.8D, a very sharp lens and usees available light without relying too much on flash. Here are some books you may want to peruse   |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3735 Registered: Dec-03 | The Nikon 50mm f/1.8D should cost you around 30KD. |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Thanks again Berny for the books I'm going to check them out. Have any of you guys tried the D50? I was checking the reviews and found out that the pictures has less noise than the D70s specially when it comes to low light and long exposure pictures. I always thought D70s would beat D50 on everything but I guess this is not true. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3768 Registered: Dec-03 | No, get the D70. A much better camera than the D50. Noise should not be a concern right now. I tried out the D50 and it is no D70 killer. |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | How would someone fix the noise using Postprocessing? is it Adobe CS2 or is there something I should know about? I did notice difference between D50 and D70, for a beginner like me wouldn't D50 be a better choice? or is it aimed for "family" use (which is below my expectations). I'm sorry for pulling out another debate. I'm really getting frustrated with these SLR companies for making this a very hard decision. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3771 Registered: Dec-03 | It would be below your expectation. But it is a great family type camera. Post processing is another thing that you need to master. Right now get a camera first. Learn what ever you can about photography. |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Hello Again Berny, I just wanted to let you know that I bought the D70s and I should get it this sunday. I asked if I can get the 50mm 1.8 lense but they don't have it and I have to buy it from the internet. I found 2 models and I can't tell which one is the one I want to buy: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=2 47091&is=USA&addedTroughType=search http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=2 47091&is=GREY&addedTroughType=search |
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Bronze Member Username: BognerPost Number: 34 Registered: Aug-05 | yewsef, click on the active link for imported or USA. It tells you that althought the imported version is less expensive, the warranty issues are a bit different on the two. I believe if you buy the USA you can send it back to BH but if you get the imported you have to send it back to Nikon. Double check, but I think that is the difference. |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Thanks Bogner for the swift reply, I've noticed the lens is not DX or ED (I dont know what that supposed to mean though, DX prolly for Digital) would this lens work good for my D70s? or is there a DX version for the 50mm f/1.8 lense? |
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Bronze Member Username: BognerPost Number: 35 Registered: Aug-05 | The best way to understand the abbreviations is to pick up a Nikon lens brochure if that is possible. It explains all of the features for each of their lenese, including an overview of everything. |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Hello Bogner, I guess DX is specially designed for Digital SLRs right? if this is true, is there a 50mm 1.8 DX version? |
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Bronze Member Username: ImpkillinPost Number: 28 Registered: Nov-04 | I dont know if this is the difference but the specially dslr lenses have no aperture ring on them. I see this as a minus, because if you were to ever use a nikon film slr the lenses would not be compatible... unless there are some performance issues i am unaware of. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4000 Registered: Dec-03 | yewsef, You are right, the DX is designed for digital SLRs and adjusted to accomodate the smaller plane of the sensor. The ED designation is for Extra Low Dispersion, to minimize the aberrations of the lens. You really do not need the DX version of any lenses in the Nikon line up, you can use most of them unless otherwise indicated. The models you indicated above are the same lenses, the more expensive one was intended for the US market and will be covered under warranty by US repair centers. The other one is not. It should not matter because from what remember you are in the Kuwait. Am I right? |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 204 Registered: Sep-04 | As I recall it's the G series lenses that have no manual aperture ring on them. I'm not all that familiar with Nikon's film camera bodies, but I believe the more recent ones will control aperture just like the digital. Those lenses should only have problems on much older manual bodies. Since we're talking about a shiny new D70s it doesn't matter because the lens has to be set to f22 and left there forever if it does have a manual aperture control. |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Thanks Jason, Berny and Chris, I ordered the lense, I should expect my D70s this sunday and the lenses sometime this week. I thank you all for making this decision easier on me. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4010 Registered: Dec-03 | You are most welcome. |
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Bronze Member Username: ImpkillinPost Number: 33 Registered: Nov-04 | Good luck! I hope you enjoy it as much as i am enjoying my new d70! |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 36 Registered: Sep-05 | What is a good lens for an amature? Or should I get one with the package deals? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4017 Registered: Dec-03 | TDog, Have you thought about the camera you are getting? Make that decision first then think about the lens. If you are a beginner and thinking that a Digital SLR is the camera for you, get the kit with the included lens. This is the best way to start on your photographic journey. Once you are confident with your skill and have found your niche, you wiil be the one to know which lens you are going to purchase. |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 38 Registered: Sep-05 | Berny, I am thinking of the D70. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4027 Registered: Dec-03 | Get the kit that comes with the 18-70mm AFS lens. An excellent lens for all around use. |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 43 Registered: Sep-05 | They have a kit with a 28-200 f/3.5-6.3 auto focus lens, is this a good lens to have? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4032 Registered: Dec-03 | Average. Not a bad lens. But I still recommend the 18-70. If you don't know how to compensate for its shortcomings like the light fall off in the long end, you will hate it. It is not a lens for beginners. And if you did not understand the 4th sentence, this lens is not for you. Go with the kit lens. Trust me on that one. |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 44 Registered: Sep-05 | ok, thanks Berny for your help. What's a good memory card to get for photography. For the D70. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4033 Registered: Dec-03 | there's Sandisk and Lexar. All recommended for use by Nikon |
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yewsef Unregistered guest | Hello Again, I've got my D70s and I LOVE it, the Noise test that I've seen in the web were really HARSH I don't know how they managed to get the noise on that test in dpreview, even with 400 ISO I don't get any kind of annoying noise (that what kept me debating for 350D instaead of D70 for few weeks). What I didnt like is the slow USB, I believe the D50 and 350D is 4 times faster and it really makes a big difference since I just noticed I will download GBs off my camera every session. But I can live with that. (I heard of a seperate reader that I can insert my CF in and read instead of plugging in my camera, is this true?). I got my 50mm 1.8 lense few days later, and I gotta say this lens ROCKS!! the 18-75mm is horrible compared to the 50mm! but my stuff mostly is Portrait so maybe I'm biased? I think I'm going to concentrate on Portraits (Specially outdoors) also interested in shooting amature models (just real people and I'd help them pose fo the camera) any book that could help me with that? I just want to thank you again for helping me pick the Camera. I got my D70s and am very satisfied. Oh, one more thing.. I managed to break my plastic LCD cover, do they sell them seperately? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4039 Registered: Dec-03 | It is advisable to get a separate card reader instead of using the camera to transfer pictures to the computer. It saves your camera battery,plus it is faster. And yes, they sell the lcd cover separately. Also try to get and extra rubber eyepiece, they also tend to get lost. Have fun with your new camera. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 210 Registered: Sep-04 | Definitely use a card reader to D/L the photos, for the reason Berny mentioned and many times the direct link drivers can be very troublesome. A card reader is a total no-brainer to set up--it really is P&P. Noise is fairly dependent on the conditions. I've had some pretty noisy shots at high ISO where most are not bad to amazing. Also keep in mind a lot of stuff posted on the web is over-sharpened. |
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New member Username: SrsstvsPost Number: 2 Registered: Sep-05 | Berny, I have a FE2 with 35~105, 1:3.5~4.5 zoom lense for almost 30 yrs now and loved it. It costs me a month's salary back then to buy them. I purchased a Coolpix 775 when it first came out and like it alot (per then standards). My son took it to France this summer and dropped it and the screen display doesn't work anymore (I opened the case and a small piece of glass fell out), although I can still take pictures thru view finder but can't change settings anymore. I visit this site a lot to read reviews: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond50/ what do you think of D50 vs. D70(s)? I'm an occasional shooter that's why my FE2 is still in excellent condition and never had it cleaned professionally, Wolf camera examed at it and told me don't mess with it if it works fine. I'm thinking buying either a D50 or D70 body and use my zoom lense, will D50 good enough for my use that mainly shooting people, scenary and close-up of insects and plants (it has a micro that can get close to inches)? It's cheaper than D70 and money does matter to me now. Another question: I'm in my 50s now and wearing bi-focal contacts, it's hard to get sharp shots when you "think" you're getting one because your eye "showing" you it's clear. I found that out when I first realize I need a reading glass 10 yrs ago. Will my zoom lense fit D50 and give me zoom and automatic focus? How does it work? Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4047 Registered: Dec-03 | For your use, I would recommend the D50. It is a very capable camera and will fit your needs very well. Coming from and FE2, you shouldn't have any problems adjusting to the D50. As far as your lenses are concerned, I would check with this http://www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=1123&forum =DCForumID6&viewmode=threaded It has various links that will tell which lenses are fully functional with the D50. All you need to know is the type of lens that you currently have. AF lenses should work well and some others like the AIS have no metering capability so you need to meter manually. The Auto-focus function of this camera is spot-on and should not give you trouble with blurry pictures. |
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New member Username: SrsstvsPost Number: 3 Registered: Sep-05 | Thanks, Berny. Good site! I've posted my AF ability with MF lens question there and already got answer on it. Thanks again! |
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Jane Unregistered guest | I am a parent of teenagers and would like to purchase a good camera to take photos of their high school sports (indoor and outdoor) and theater productions. I currently take photos and donate them for use in the school yearbook and theater website. However, I'm using a compact 3.2 megapixel digital camera with X10 zoom (Canon PowerShot S1 IS), so my photos are very limited. 25 years ago I used the Canon F1 with all the attachments and lenses but quit using it due to the heavy weight. Of course developing photos was expensive as I only had one or two good photos for about every 20 that I took. I am not a professional photographer but want a good camera that a non-professional can use. What would you recommend? I've been reading about 4 differnet cameras: Nikon D50, Nikon D70s, Canon EOS 350D Rebel XT, and Canon EOS 20D. Are there any keepers in this group for me? I would love to have a great camera but also I don't want something I'm not capable of using. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4064 Registered: Dec-03 | If you have used the Canon before, I suggest that you get the Canon EOS 20D. A great camera and should serve you well for the purpose that you intend and more. If the EOS 20D is within your budget, don't hesitate. Your familiarity with the F1 will be a big plus and our lenses from the F1 should still be compatible with the exception of few that are mount specific. |
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Jane Unregistered guest | Thanks Berny! The more I looked into the different cameras, the more confused I got. Your answer has helped tremendously. I have another question. I would like to have a zoom lens with maximum distance. Should I buy one and if so which one? Or, will my old lens work and if so will I need an adapter? Is it safe to assume if I buy a new zoom lens it will have auto focus as a feature and if I use my old one I will need to manually focus? The Canon equipment I have includes: F-1 Body Motor Drive MF Lens FD 50mm 1:1.4 S.S.C. Lens FD 24mm 1:2.8 S.S.C. Lens FD 135mm 1:2.5 S.C. Zoom Lens FD 100-200mm 1:5.6 S.C. Vivitar Automatic Tele Converter 2X-4 FL-FD You may ask why an amateur has this equipment. Well, I worked at a newspaper 25 years ago and bought it used from the photographer who was replacing his equipment. He helped me learn a few things about the camera but I never really mastered the equipment. It was fun to have until I had kids and had to carry them around instead of my heavy camera. That's when I went to the purse size cameras... but now I want something digital and better. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4065 Registered: Dec-03 | What you have listed there are manual focuse lenses. Still highly regarded by a few collectors and should fetch a very modest amount in the used lenses market. Unfortunately the lenses that you have is not backwards compatible with a lot of the newer camera bodies which employ ef and ef-s lenses. If you have learned a few things about the F1, transitioning to the digital media is not a long leap. As long as you get Canon lenses that are EF and EF-S, you will have autofocus capability. When you say maximum distance, you are talking about a great amount of dollars involved so let us narrow down your lens choices shall we? We start by a learning your budget and the type of photography that you are planning on doing. This is assuming that you are getting a Canon EOS 20D, right? |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 212 Registered: Sep-04 | Yes, you will have to get the EOS system lenses. But, if you want to continue using the FD lenses, there are adapters available & many of the lenses may be used. The EF-S lenses are limited to the 1.6x crop factor sensor-based bodies (20D and Rebel are both 1.6, the 1D series are 1.3, and the new 5D is full frame). You can directly replace the primes with EOS lenses & the 50mm and 135mm are both vey highly regarded lenses. Of course with the 1.6x crop factor they are condisered equivalent to 80mm & 200mm. I'm not as sure about the 24mm. The 100-200mm might be best replaced with the 70-200mm/f4, or if you're willing to spend more, the f/2.8 version either with or without IS. All three are favorites among Canon shooters. Remember that these are still SLR cameras and they aren't much lighter than the older F1. The longer lenses can be quite heavy. Checking the Canon Camera Museum site (really cool, BTW) the F-1 is listed at 820g, the 20D at 685g and the Rebel at 485g. Further comparison, the 50mm/f1.4 FD has 3 versions weighing from 370g to 305g, the EOS 50mm/f1.4 is listed at 290g. So you will be saving some weight over the older manual equipment (of course that is becasue of a lot more plastic--the 50mm/F1.8 Mk II is known for excellent optics & toy-like build quality). |
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Unregistered guest | Hi Berny, I have read through the posts from over a year ago until now and I am still a little unsure about what I want to get. Above all, I want a versatile camera that can go with me anywhere. I plan to be doing a lot of travel photography, snowboard photography, landscape (I currently use a Fuji 6x7 film camera for those), low light night photography and perhaps some wedding photography to help me pay the bills. I am quitting my job and plan to take my photography seriously since I graduated with a Fine Arts degree in photography 4 years ago. I have been a manual film SLR camera user for the past 8 years and have been waiting until an affordable digital SLR came out and the technology stabalized a bit. I too am torn between the Nikon D70 and the Canon 20D. If I could afford one of the better cameras (11-16 MP) I would but my budget is only about $2k. I would like to make as large as prints as I can...definately 13x19. I don't want to take up too much of your time but any input on my situation would be most appreciated. Thanks! |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4074 Registered: Dec-03 | For your purposes, I would definitely recommend the Canon 20D. I could go on about its qualities but I have no doubt that you have done your research |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 216 Registered: Sep-04 | I'll second the 20D. Digital cameras are more like computers than film cameras as far as technology goes, it will always be a moving target, so you just have to dive in at some point with the best fit for your needs currently on the market; there will be a new, better version out in 6 months anyway (witness the 5D now being released). |
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Unregistered guest | Hello Berny and Chris, Wow, I am surpised by that. I was expecting you to come back to me with the Nikon. I have borrowed a 20D from a friend and am not exnormously happy with the night shots...the capture speed becomes SIGNIFICANTLY slower. The built-in flash (when I have used it - not often) is so overpowering as well. I know that it is not appropriate for close shots and really is only used as a 10 foot or so fill flash but I would have thought I could more control on that. Have I just missed that setting? Also, for a $1k or so more would I be able to afford something closer to the next level? My dream camera would be something like the MarkII, but I need to be able to make money first before buying that. I really want to be able to grow with this camera...the 20D is seeming a bit consumer level to me but it could be b/c I am not using it correctly yet. I shoot a Nikon F3 and a Fuji 6x7. The Fuji 6x7 negs are so beautiful...has made me very picky about resolution. The fact that I already have two Nikon lenses doesn't make a difference? Also, can you tell me your opinion on the MP difference? What will I be losing in a 6MP sensor vs. a 16 MP sensor? Another question...I really don't know much about lenses other than the lengths and general effects they give you. I.E. wide angle more of a fish eye all encompassing view, 30-100mm say is a very versatile but probably not a very sharp lens. The general rule of thumb I have thought is to have specific lenses for every situation (least mm range, better optics no?). Do you have specific reccomendations for me regarding lenses in these situations? I can call B and H and Samy's but I always like to get multiple opinions from real people who aren't trying to sell me something. 1. low light landscape 2. low light architectural 3. action (high noon) snowboarding photos (LOTS of white glare obviously) 4. versatile candid portrait lens (both kit lighting and natural lighting) 5. artwork, food, and other "product" type of shots Haha, I know these sound like totally different realms of photography. But is there a camera out there can start me out in the right direction? I am not sure which one of these areas will end up being the most lucrative for me and want to keep my options open for a bit. Thank you for your time. By the way, just found a very cool talk coming up in late October in L.A. Editor in chief of Natl Geographic will be speaking. Check it out: http://santafeworkshops.com/Traveler/ |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4079 Registered: Dec-03 | Read this link as it will tackle most of the things you are contemplating. http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech.htm |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 217 Registered: Sep-04 | If you think the 20D is too consumer level, then the D70 will definitely disappoint you. Low light is challenging; I do a lot of low light theater/performance shoots where I do not use flash at all & the 20D is definitely a great camera for that. I think the slower capture speed is due to a black frame being taken, thus doubling the time taken for a shot (i.e., a 1min exposure will take 2 min, 1 for the actual frame & 1 for the black frame), be sure that those settings are turned off. The lenses could make a difference. If you would like to use them with the new digital camera, definitely go with Nikon. Though you will probably only be happy with the D1 or D2 series bodies from your comments. As to lenses, there are excellent lenses and dogs in every focal length available. You will need to do some research for the good ones. The crop factor DSLRs are creating a larger demand for ultra-wide angle lenses out to the fisheye range & there are some nice ones out there. Don't get too hung up on MP. All the DSLRs will produce very nice results at typical print sizes. I would think you really only "need" 16MP when you're going to output to something like a billboard or other large banners or signs. The difference between the 6MP at the low end & 11MP at the high end won't make much difference at 4x6, 8x10, 11x14, etc. Except for file size, that is. |
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Shamrock Unregistered guest | Hi all, I am new to this forum, I really enjoy it but recently I've found a great debate about Nikon vs Canon, particularly the CCD and CMOS technology. I also found that many members didn't really understand what is CCD and CMOS, so please read this link before saying things that you don't really clear about that: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question362.htm Hope this will help. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4181 Registered: Dec-03 | Notice Shamrock that there was no debate here about the CCD vs CMOS issue. Also notice that I recommend either camera by the niche of photographer and not by type of sensor. It seems clear that you have read about the CMOS VS CCD issue. So stick with your preferences and leave it at that. All we do is point out the differences between cameras and certain strengths and weaknesses. It is up to the end user to decide. All you do is point out a debate when most have already decided. The sensor is only part of the equation and does not equal the whole sum. The professional photograpers that I know care more about the quality of their lenses, the instinctiveness of control layouts, the composition of the photos and the quality of their prints. CCD and CMOS takes a back seat when the pictures are judged and the quality of the photograph is totally independent of the type of sensor and even the camera that was used when the photograph was taken. It is the skill of the photographer that is judged and not whether he/she was clear about the CCD/CMOS difference. |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | Hi Berny and Chris am new to forum, fascinating advice/debate on D70/canon EOS. Could you offer some advice on D70 versus EOS 350D for macrophotography, specifically Dental shots.I currently use a nikon coolpix 4500 with LED flash but want to upgrade. Was considering EOS 350D with 60mm macro lens and MR-14Ex macro ring lite. Friend has suggested D70 doesn't have TTL metering? and didn't reccomend it for dental close ups. I am novice in photography and would appreciate any advice. thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4189 Registered: Dec-03 | If you already have Nikon equipment, I would suggest that you stick with Nikon so that there would be no issues with transition. Your friend is wrong about the D70 not having TTL metering, in fact it has a great TTL meter. Dental close ups or any macro shots are dependent on lenses and proper lighting. And both Canon and Nikon have one of the best lenses in the market, bar none. If you are thinking of using Canon, get the Canon 20D and not the Digital Rebel. |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | I have some canon and nikon equipment but nothing significant in terms of lens etc. Am open to purchasing either and would like to use for learning more about general photography also. However main concern is to get macro set up for dental shots. Can you reccommend specific lens/flash for D70? nikon 105mm with SB-29TTL macro ring flash? would you reccommend a standard lens also? I notice some "medical/dental" companies reccomend modified ring flashes eg Dine corp with D70/EOS. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4194 Registered: Dec-03 | For the Nikon D70s, I would recommend the 105mm f/2.8D AF Micro-Nikkor with a 12 inch minimum focusing distance or 60mm f/2.8D AF Micro-Nikkor with about an 8 inch focusing distance. For the type of work that you will be doing I'd go with the 60mm. With this set up I'll use the TTL Macro Speedlight SB-29s or you can wait for this set up (warning: this may take a while to come out but it will be worth the upgrade as you won't be needing a bunch of wires)  |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | thanks berny think I'll go ahead with SB-29s and D70 any particular reason for 60mm versus 105mm? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4197 Registered: Dec-03 | Nothing really, just the closest focus range and I am figuring with dental work, you want to get up close and personal. However, the 105mm is a lot more versatile and a 4 inch difference in distance will be covered by the 105's focal reach. The 105 is also excellent for regular photography. |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | would the 60mm be better for handheld macro as I won't be using tripod etc and presume is lighter also |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4203 Registered: Dec-03 | yes it is easier to control hand held. However, control is something you get from experience and by getting used to the lens. |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | Berny, have been checking out D70 and Canon 20D with macro lens and must admit like both. Still haven't purchased but saw a comment on http://www.tomhedge.com/wordpress/ wiht the set up you showed ( the new remote Speedlight SB-R200 and Command Unit SU-800).They say "Although these are point lights and not a ring, they may solve the problem dentist Nikon photographers have had with the SB 29 ring flash that did not TTL meter with Nikon digital's. This combination will TTL meter." Any thoughts? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4287 Registered: Dec-03 | This is probably one of the coolest set-up I've seen for macro work. No cables and through the lens metering is a definite plus. However, this gear won't be available until December or early 2006. The camera (D200) is expected to deliver by December. |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | Is this significantly better than the "macro set up" for Canon 20D? ie is it really worth waiting for and what is the significance of the " problem dentist Nikon photographers have had with the SB 29 ring flash that did not TTL meter with Nikon digital's"? If I buy now am I better off going for the canon set up? Thanks for the advice, sorry for the procrastination |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4289 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes, you are always better off buying now and taking pictures now, instead of waiting for the next best thing and end up with nothing for the present in hoping for a better future. The macro set-up of Canon is already capable of e-ttl with digitals. Knowing these two companies, they are always one-upping each other with each new release. I have not tried this new set-up with Nikon's new wireless macro set-up so I can't tell you. But knowing their history, the new one will be an improvement over the rival's latest. The problem with not being able to meter with the ring flash is the unnatural and often poorly exposed photographs. There is a lot of trial and error and you have to know how to adjust the power of your speedlight to adjust for proper exposure. Of course, with digital the results are instant so you can adjust quickly. But I still say get the Canon 20D now so you can start taking pictures. Chris, What is your take on the e-ttl? |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 233 Registered: Sep-04 | LOL. I have yet to actually get a flash for the 20D, so my only recent experience with flash is actually Nikon (SB-50 with the 995). I cannot really comment, though the large Canon communities over at fredmiranda.com or photography-on-the.net should have extensive experience. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4308 Registered: Dec-03 | Oh the horrors Chris! No speedlight? Say it isn't so Would make a very nice gift for yourself on the upcoming holidays Or perhaps another lens...hmmm. No, no, no, you already have lenses, but you don't have the speedlight. But another lens cannot hurt. It will never end will it? (You realize I go through this dilemma all the time) |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 236 Registered: Sep-04 | LOL! Lenses? Nope, need those too! My Canon collection right now consists of the crummy kit lens (it works fine in situations where a P&S would be happy), and the 50/1.8 Mk I. I have a bunch of primo glass available to borrow, but it's not like having them myself. Of course the benefit is I'm really having to make that single focal length work (virtually all of the Coffee Haven pics on my site I mentioned in the other thread are on the 50mm)--it's forcing me to concentrate on other things like settings & using sneaker zoom to recompose. Now if I could figure out how to get that SB-50 to work with the Canon....I do have a Wein slave for an old Vivitar... nah, now I'm sounding like Monster Darkroom. No, it never seems to end. Now that I've borrowed the 17-40L that is likely to hit my want list. Sigh. |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | Berny, Chris. Thanks for all the advice. I now seem to have come full circle again towards the Canon (if e-ttl is important for macro/digital flash). I know you are probably fed up answering this but for my primary purpose (dental shots) is the 20D significantly better than the EOS 350D? ie is it worth the extra $? And if I go wiht 20D which standard "kit" lens would you reccomend for general use? Thanks for help guys |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4325 Registered: Dec-03 | Hands down, the Canon 20D and worth every extra cent. And as far as the lens is concerned, what is your budget? I would recommend the EF 70-200 f/2.8 USM with either the "Image Stabilization" feature or the one without. Either choice will be great as these lenses are very sharp and you will be using it even if Canon comes up with newer cameras. One of the best professional lens that Canon makes. You'll probably never take this off the camera. The downside is the weight and the price (but still worth it). You would not appreciate lugging this around as a tourist aside from the fact that it really stands out. For a standard walk around lens I would recommend EF-S 17-85MM f4-5.6 IS USM. Nice all around lens with Image Stabilzation feature. For the Macro lens I would recommend the EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro. A very fast lens and the optics are superb. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 238 Registered: Sep-04 | The 20D is definitely a more capable camera than the 350D. Canon's DSLR line goes 350D-20D-5D-1D in price and features. If you go with the 70-200/f2.8 get the IS version, it's worth the $500 premium & is one of the best in Canon's arsenal--it's sharing the top of my want list with the equally good 24-70L. It was hard taking it off the camera. The weight didn't bother me much & I was doing 3+hour hand-held sessions with it--I just kept thinking about the fantastic shots (and good workout) I was getting. The 17-85 is going to be a much better kit lens than the 18-55. If you are getting other lenses anyway, you might just skip the kit lens and get a body only. The one place I do know Canon is falling down is max shutter synch on the flash. Canon is 1/250 while Nikon is 1/500. However with the lenses we're talking about so far that won't be a limit. |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | thanks guys, initially I just want to get a good macro lens and the body. I am based in Ireland and prices here are a lot more expensive. The 18-55 lens is usually included with the 20D for a small extra cost but the total cost of 20D , 100mm f/2.8 macro and MR-14EX ring lite is about €2800(euros). I may just get the macro lens and use the kit lens(18-55mm) for now for general use.I guess budget wise it makes more sense for me to pay the extra now for the 20D rather than 350D and get shooting.Once again guys thanks for all your help. Will revert back with some amateur dental shots if you're interested once I'm set up. |
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Unregistered guest | berny, chris... i was wondering if you could help me out in picking a dSLR that is right for me... i am a college student, and i'm basically a photography major. i've taken 3 photo classes and i plan on taking more. i'm not a beginner, but i still have plenty to learn. i have a canon ae-1 program and about 8 lenses (though i couldnt tell you what they are off the top of my head). unfortunately, those lenses wont help me with with any digital SLR, so i think i want to get the nikon d70 (or d70s) unless you think the things i plan on shooting will send me a different direction. i have been lusting after it for about a year or so. i like to take pictures of decay. boarded up houses in the ghetto, abandoned insane asylums from the 40's, rotting dolls, things of that nature. i also like to take semi-long exposures at night, macro shots and an occasional picture of my pets... like any good parent ;) i like vivid and ultra saturated colors-- my favorite film is, er... was agfa ultra 100 (RIP). luckily i secured 10 rolls before they became harder to find. anyway, the color the camera produces isnt that important since i can fix it in photoshop. i try to avoid using flash whenever possible. i've never gotten any good results from using one... or maybe it's just not my style. i also rarely use a telephoto lens (if that makes a difference). also, being that i use an older camera that doesnt have any auto focus settings, i dont really understand the whole auto focus...thing. does that mean i can't decide how i want to focus even in a manual setting? or does it just auto focus in an automatic setting? i am very uneducated when it comes to this. i'm used cameras that are older than i am. i know you've told most people to stay away from the d50, but whats so bad about it? and why should i not get it? all the specs i've read havent seemed that different from the d70. plus its CHEAP which appeals to me since i am a college student and a "starving artist" at the same time... you've convinced me to stay far away from ebay, which means i'm probably going to be spending more than i initially planned. so now my budget is around 1300 max (money i dont have, i might add), though i'm hoping to spend less if i can. i only work part time right now... BUT i have two jobs and i plan on working like a maniac all through winter break so i might be able to save up enough to upgrade to another camera if you think a different one (out of my current budget) would suit me better. thanks in advance! |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4363 Registered: Dec-03 | kellie, You'll be fine with either camera. But for the type of experience you currently have, I just don't think the D50 will be enough camera for you. However, if you are stepping up from a digital point and shoot camera, it will be perfect. With the advent of the Nikon D200 you will be seeing a slew of D70s on sale and marked down prices. A lot of photographers who owns the D70 have been waiting for its release. I believe the D70 would be a great starting point for your budding career and when you start getting paid for what you love to do, you can pick and choose any camera you want. Do not be too concerned about the auto focus features. The camera is capable of full manual operation and the lens that comes with the D70 kit is capable of Autofocus and Manual focus both at the same time. |
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kelliee Unregistered guest | brace yourself. i have a slew of annoying questions... i cant seem to find the d70 at any reliable (online) photo stores, only the d70s. i was hoping to find a real good deal on one since they are being discontinued(?). and do you think online stores or the actual stores have better prices? or are they about the same? i'm just worried that i'll get suckered into buying something i dont want/need. i'll check some stores out in person and see if they have any d70's left. do you think i should get the d70s or should i save up a little more money and get the d200? should i even think about the d200? (i honestly havent researched anything about it yet, so i have no idea, other than it has more megapixels... which i know doesnt matter). i want to get a camera that i wont feel like i need to trade in within a year or two. if i go for the d70s, when would be a smart time to get it? in other words, when do you think they will start being marked down more? are they being marked down already? i would hate to buy it now and then find it a month later marked down significantly. if you think its not going to be until july or later, i'll just buy it now. if you think it'll be sometime around february, i think i'll wait on it. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4367 Registered: Dec-03 | Not annoying at all You may be hard pressed to find an older D70, the D70s came out quite suddenly and the older the D70 may have been tapped out. If the business news are not lying, the D70 sold quite a few million units and became one of the best selling DSLR cameras. The D70S will most likely go down in prices a little bit more as soon as the D200 comes out. Here is one thing to keep in mind, when buying the D70S as a complete kit. It is exactly what it is a complete kit. The battery, lens, charger, CD, etc., all you will need to start taking photos. The only thing you will need to buy is a Compact Flash memory card. The best time to get a good deal on the D70S will be when the D200 is in full production and there are no more waiting lists in the stores. Should be around 6 months. With regards to the D70 vs D200 debate, it really depends on how soon you want to take photos digitally. With the type of shooting that you are planning on doing, you will probably need a more rugged body. The D70 is a great camera, but a lot of pros think that the body should have been tougher. The D200 comes in a magnesium alloy body with weather seals so it will stand up to professional use. But being a student on a tight budget, get the D70 now so you can spend the rest of your hard earned money on lenses, where it really matters. This way you can upgrade later to a D200 without significant dents on your wallet, because the lens you have will still be usable with the D200. The D200 does not come with a lens at a base price of around $1699. For the budget that you have right now, you can get the D70S kit with the 18-70 lens and start taking pictures. Don't worry about trading up in a year or two, it will happen eventually, there is just no getting away from it. But the main thing is you can enjoy your photography now. And when you do move up in a year or two, you still have a back up digital camera. You'll need it when you start your professional move. As for sources, stick with reputable companies like Adorama, B&H and Calumet. I have dealt with these companies and I have yet to be let down. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4369 Registered: Dec-03 | And one more thing, any reason why you are not leaning towards the Canon 20D? If you are a long time Canon user, the transition will be very smooth. Chris, Jump in here, man! Can the 20D utilize older lenses? Or are you restricted to the newer EF/EF-S lenses? It's been a while. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 243 Registered: Sep-04 | I only check once a day, you guys move fast! ;P Yes, the Canon EOS system is very versatile. From what I'm finding the mount is pysically larger than most all others, including the older Canon FD. So, the FD lenses can be used with an adapter. $40 at Adorama will get you going: http://www.adorama.com/CZFDEOSA.html Any EOS lens will work with the digital (same idea as the Nikon F-mount), however the EF-S lenses only work on the 1.6 crop digital bodies (that is unless you modify them-the rear element sticks deep into the mirror box & will interfere with the mirror on 1.3 or FF bodies). My favorite lens right now is my 50mm/1.8 Mk I, which was discontinued in 1990--well before the 20D--and works perfectly. With the AE-1, she has FD lenses which require the adapter I mentioned above; it says metering will work with a 1/3 stop adjustment & require manual focus (duh)--BUT the lenses are usable. BTW, there is a contingent of Canon users who are spending a fortune on oddball cominations like 1D bodies with manual focus Leica and Zeiss glass and are getting great results. There are adapters to the EOS mount for Nikon, Pentax, Contax/Yashica, Olympus, and several others as well. The 20D just falls within the budget and I'm betting a lot of used one will start hitting the market with the 5D out (there are a lot of people with money to burn who just HAVE to have the newest body on the block). Sticking with Canon, there is a rich market of used equipment; you can find older bodies like the 10D, D30, or probably even the D60 for about the same as a film body. Check the used section at Adorama and B&H. Cameta Camera usually has a few. But the best source for used equipment online is KEH, they always have a good supply of stuff (a quick check shows a number of used 20Ds for ~$1k, 10Ds for ~$600-750, D30s for ~$400, D60s for ~$500, Rebels for ~$500, and Rebel XTs for ~$700; they have 3 D70's at ~$600). |
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kelliee Unregistered guest | well with that bit of information, it would probably be smart for me to stick with canon then! the reason why i wanted to go with nikon to begin with is that i've heard a number of people complain about the menu system on the canons... that it is confusing and sometimes hard to read in bright light. BUT i suppose i can deal with this if it means i can use all my old lenses. do they also make an adapter for nikon so i can use my old canon lenses or does it not work that way? just want to make sure would you advise me not to get the 10D and go for the 20D? what is the major difference between the two that would make or break my decision? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4378 Registered: Dec-03 | Oh no, stay away from the 10D when you can get the 20D and stay within your budget. The 20D is a much much better camera and has rendered the 10D obsolete. It has better metering capabilities and the evaluative metering has been improved. The white balance on the 20D is more accurate than the 20D can ever be. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 246 Registered: Sep-04 | If you can afford it, definitely go with the 20D over the 10D; it is a much more capable camera. I mentioned the older models as examples of a way to make the jump to digital with a limited budget. Canon & Nikon releas a new body seemingly every 6 months & every time they get better & better. I don't find the menus to be confusing. They are laid out differently than Nikon's, but it's just different not necessarily better--really depends on which you prefer. The main complaints I hear is that some functions that really ought to be on a hard button (the most egregious example is mirror lockup--just get a Cannon macro shooter wound up on that one! To add insult to injury, on the 5D a direct print button was added, but the mirror lockup is still burined in menus! WTF). For adapting Canon lenses to Nikon bodies, from what I understand the answer is no. Part of it I believe is lens-to-film plane issues. Another difference is most other AF systems have the AF motor in the camera body, while the EOS system has it in the lens, so the mount is purely electronic with no mechanical connection besides holding the lens onto the body. Finally, from what I understand the EOS mount is physically larger than the others (I'll have to compare my sister's D100 over the holidays to verify that). However I'm not really an expert on this, I just have seen all kinds of adapters for other systems to mount to an EOS body. I'm glad to hear my 20D WB is better than my 20D WB can ever be. ;P |
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kelliee Unregistered guest | two more questions... can the new nikon lenses work on the canon 20D? can the old nikon lenses work on the nikon D70s? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4381 Registered: Dec-03 | No, the new nikon lenses will not work on the 20D, you need an adapter. Yes, the old lenses will work on the D70S but metering is not possible. You need to rely on a separate light meter and adjust your camera on full manual. Here's the kicker...the Nikon D200 can use ALL Nikon lenses, old and new, manual and full auto. |
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kelliee Unregistered guest | but they do make an adapter for the new nikon lenses to fit on the 20D? and would i be able to meter? i read a few things online saying that my canon FD lenses wont work out very well on the 20D since the glass used on the adapter will compromise the quality of the pictures. so i'm not completely convinced that my old lenses will have as good of quality as i'd like on the 20D. maybe i should rent the camera for a day to make sure? but then i would probably have to buy the adapter anyway without even knowing that its going to work... i was trying to find examples of the FD lenses on an EOS body (digital or not... the quality would be about the same, right?), but i was only able to find examples using lenses made for other brands (using adapters that dont have glass). if i could see some examples with the FD lenses, it would definitely sway me one way or the other. anyway... i was thinking that if i can use any nikon lenses on any canon camera with a simple adapter ring (one that doesnt involve glass) then if i ever decide to get a canon DSLR in the future, i wont need to buy new lenses for it since they would adapt easily. so i'm thinking that i'll get the d20s now and buy a few lenses. they will work fine if i stick with nikon or if i switch over. i dont know. i'm very torn... i never thought it would be this hard to decide. chris, if you know of any sites showing examples of using FD lenses on an EOS body, it would be much appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4389 Registered: Dec-03 | kelliee, Once you use use adaptors for any lenses, Canon, Nikon or what not, there will be compromises in picture quality specially on differing camera bodies. To ease the complication of using different lenses, adaptors, camera bodies, etc. Stick to one maker. In this case the Nikon. They tend to make all their lenses with the same mounts. The D70S is well within your budget. Get it now and start enjoying it. You are thinking too much in to the camera body and its potential future. Trust me, once you get going, the next purchase will be on lenses, most of your money will go into these. The bodies will come and go specially with digital, but your Nikon lenses will be useable with any Nikon (except DX lenses which are specially made for the smaller sensor size of digital). The Nikon D70S however, can use regular Nikon lenses. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4393 Registered: Dec-03 | kelliee, Here is another item you may want to read http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d200-vs-canon.htm |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 248 Registered: Sep-04 | The optical quality will not degrade just because it's a Nikkor lens on a Canon body--there's no glass involved, it's just a flange. The adapters should maintain the correct rear element-to-film plane spacing. What you lose is AF. Metering is done within the body, so it should work if you can control the aperture manually on the lens (this kind of excludes the G series Nikkor lenses). Here are a couple of articles on the subject: http://www.outbackphoto.com/the_bag/paul_lens_adapters/essay.html and http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/nikcan.htm. Those should answer most all of your questions. I would also suggest going over to www.fredmiranda.com and hit the "Alternative Digital Systems and Lenses" board, there is a VERY active group of Canon shooters over there using all manner of non-Canon glass that should be able to expertly answer any question you have (they go for even stranger combos than Nikkor on Canon). I'm sure they will have many examples of the results they are getting as well. My take on Rockwell's article is bascially what many of us are saying: it really boils down to what specific features are most important to you, the technical quality is so high & so close that doesn't matter. BTW, "oversize sensor"? The 5D is full-frame 35mm, while Nikon is sticking with their standard 1.5x crop; a poorly worded comment IMHO. The other aspect is which set of ergonomics you prefer (Ken's is obvious ) and Canon does have a couple of blunders on theirs (I'm sure Nikon is not free of them either). Since you already have Canon glass, I'd look there first--this is where the majority of the money will end up anyway. Like Berny says, glass sticks around, bodies come & go. Once you have chosen one system over the other, it makes financial sense to stay with it even when the competition releases the hottest new body on the block--because the other guys certainly have THEIR next greatest thing waiting in the wings; I get constant entertainment over the "Should I switch" threads that pop up every time a new body is released. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4398 Registered: Dec-03 | Good point, but I experienced a slight fall off when using the adapters on my older Canon film when using AIS lenses. I haven't really tried on digital bodies. Again kelliee it is your call. If you are used to the Canon, get the 20D, you'll find it easier to use with your older lenses. I am sure that Canon will come up with a camera that will rival the D200's features, they always do. By that time, Canon will also come out with a body that can use all manner of Canon lenses. You can't go wrong with either one. You just have to make a decision based on your lenses, and I think that is pretty clear. |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | Berny, chris, Many thanks for your generous advice. I have placed my order for Canon 20D with 17-85IS lens,macro lens and 14EX TTL ring flash. Can't wait now procrastination over. Hope to continue to avail of your help once it arrives.Thanks again. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4401 Registered: Dec-03 | Very niiice! Now have fun taking pictures |
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kelliee Unregistered guest | i regret to inform you that i'm STILL going back and forth on this. i think theres just something about nikon and i just cant let it go... do you have any idea about how much it would cost to rent the 20D and the d70s for a day? or even for a few hours? so i was wondering if you could reccomend some good basic lenses for nikon and for canon and the price range i'd be looking at. and maybe a good cheap ring flash? they dont have to be from nikon or canon, but i'd like them to be good quality since thats the most important part of the camera. are there any brands that are no good? i will buy a camera by the end of the year. i swear it. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4481 Registered: Dec-03 | LOL! I do not envy your position. As far as rental is concerned I have no idea what to tell you. You may want to look at your local yellow pages. As far as basic lenses are concerned, the 18-70 kit lens that came with the Nikon outfit is an excellent all around lens. There is a new one coming out from Nikon, the 18-200mm f3.5-5.6 AF-S VR DX. For the Canon, I really like the performance of the EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens. The image stabilizer is one heck of a performer. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 250 Registered: Sep-04 | My local shop only has a 10D and D100, those are $100 per day. I looked at Adorama & they have the 20D for $125 a day & the D70 for $100 a day. Lenses are about $25-35 for typical mid-range focal lengths. Adorama's lens selection is pretty limited compared to my local shop (they have the 70-200/2.8L IS for $30 a day). I would expect those prices to be typical. Have you played with them in the camera shop yet? That may be enough to make up your mind. Good luck, I know it's a hard decision. |
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AsshleBerny Unregistered guest | Berny wrote: __________________________________________________ Since you are a beginner, you really should step back and think before you start speaking about how to judge pictures. I do not mean to insult you but, ever since this new more affordable DSLRs flooded the market the photographer wannabes started coming out of the woodwork. A lot of them buy the camera (D70 or the Rebel- it is irrelevant) thinking that they would be the next Tenneson, Adams or Fong. They seem to be greatly disappointed that their pictures do not come out as kodak perfect as they thought it would be in their heads. Since you like to mess around with the settings, you have to understand these things first. Otherwise you will end up with far worse pictures than the people who made this website you accuse of not knowing how to use their camera. ____________________________________________________ That is very nice of you Berny, the poor sod saw a few pictures on a site, the 350 ones looked better than the D70 ones. No need to lecture him on exposure values, you are acting like a cocksure as$. Yeah you have been helpful but you need to tone down the attitude. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4503 Registered: Dec-03 | Nah, I don't need to tone down the attitude. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 251 Registered: Sep-04 | Sometimes the truth hurts. |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | Berny wrote: Since you are a beginner, you really should step back and think before you start speaking about how to judge pictures. Speaking as a beginner I think Berny's advice has been extremely helpful. Surely suggesting someone should "learn to walk before running" is entirely appropriate. Please keep up the good work Berny and DON'T "tone down the attitude". |
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Karen P Unregistered guest | Another beginner here. Have a long standing interest in photography but have only started researching what to buy in the last week - each site I go to gets me more confused! Have really enjoyed trying to follow all the messages posted here- so here I am with my questions: I love landscapes and I love portraits - mostly those shots where you can tell that the person isnt even aware of the photographer - ie not studio portrait type of portraits (see - lots to learn - dont even know what the correct name is!) I think I've worked out that those two interests require very different lenses- correct? And so I'll add that I'll probably tend more towards the people side than the landscape side in the future. Planning on doing some courses once I have the camera in my hands to develop knowledge and skills but would appreciate your advice regarding what to get into my hands considering the following: -I'll probably spend most of my life in African countries - east africa the most likely next move after the UK where I am at the moment. I've read that higher temperatures and 'tropical conditions' can affect lenses. True? How important will that be and if it is important then what brand should I go for since I havent invested in anything at the moment? Also - do you know whether there is a particular company which is known for good service in far flung places on the planet because that may become an issue? -Having lived in South Africa until coming to the UK six months ago I can now testify to the harsh african sun which I've always read about but never understood because I've not been able to compare it to anything. I imagine that glare and harsh light will have an effect on planning shots etc. Does the basic equipment have much of an effect here or will it be my skills and extras eg filters which I will need to look at? I dont really understand the white balance stuff which I've been reading - will this play a role and any recommended sites for more info on this? This may sound like a non politically correct question but I imagine that different skin tones require different lighting to really capture the texture and essence - ? Obviously living in Africa most of my portraits will include people who have darker skin. -There seems to be a bit of a debate about whether it would be better to learn on a 35mm SLR or a digital. I am tending towards digital because of the more instant feedback and also because I will be able to use it in the future rather than wait 6 months to go to the city to get my film developed. Any suggestions regarding my logic. Planning on doing some travelling in the next year or so and will hopefully be putting my new knowledge into practise during that time - so I'm also looking for something that will give me good range when it comes to travel (wide variety of situations and little things to notice, enjoy and capture.) At the moment my budget is about 600-700 pounds... so it looks like if I stick to digital my options are the canon 350d with 18-55mm kit lens or nikon D50 with af-s18-55mm kit lens. -Shoud I wait until I have a bigger budget? -Which of those would you recommend at the moment? -Should I just get one or the other of the bodies and a different lens - if so which body and which lens? -Any other viable options which I havent come across? Lastly - hopefully - any other considerations which I need to think about? Thank you |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4529 Registered: Dec-03 | Welcome to the wonderful world of photography! "I love landscapes and I love portraits - mostly those shots where you can tell that the person isnt even aware of the photographer - ie not studio portrait type of portraits (see - lots to learn - dont even know what the correct name is!) I think I've worked out that those two interests require very different lenses- correct? And so I'll add that I'll probably tend more towards the people side than the landscape side in the future. Planning on doing some courses once I have the camera in my hands to develop knowledge and skills but would appreciate your advice regarding what to get into my hands" I see that you want to take a photojournalistic approach to your photographs. That is a very nice field, no need for fancy and expensive studio equipment. You take it as you see it! And yes you will probably need to invest is at least 2 different lenses. For the landscape shots you may want to look at wide angle lenses, probably in the 12-24 mm range. This will allow you to take in a wide look at the landscape. Due to its very short reach, it will not be very ideal for a close-up look at people from far away, for this you would want to look at longer lenses. I would recommend the 80-200mm f/2.8 (available in both Canon and Nikon iterations) or if you are going for the Nikon, the 70-200mm f/2.8 AF-S VR. This will ensure that you are not intruding into people's space and give you the advantage of capturing the subject in their element. Take note however that these lenses are not cheap, once you start using them, you'll know why. It will probably cost you a decent amount of money so be prepared. It will run you about £500 for the 12-24mm and £700 on the 70-200mm AF-S VR. You can get the 80-200mm f/2.8 for around £450-550. If you are going the Nikon route, take a look at the new 18-200 mm f/3.5-5.6 AF-S DX VR. This lens will be a great walk around lens that will not break the bank and could very well be the lens that will stay on your camera. It covers a decent wide angle and great zoom reach and should cover most of the subjects you intend to capture. If you can only purchase one lens for your camera, this should be it. I'll be getting one soon. The camera body is another story. We'll get to that. "I'll probably spend most of my life in African countries - east africa the most likely next move after the UK where I am at the moment. I've read that higher temperatures and 'tropical conditions' can affect lenses. True? How important will that be and if it is important then what brand should I go for since I havent invested in anything at the moment? Also - do you know whether there is a particular company which is known for good service in far flung places on the planet because that may become an issue? " Higher temperatures and tropical conditions not only affect lenses, it affects the camera as well, care should be taken when in such conditions. Much like any other electronics in austere conditions, knowing how to take care of them will avoid problems. With this in mind your equipment will be fine. Don't get dust in your equipment, avoid changing lenses out in the open and do not get your equipment wet. Take care when you pick either the Canon Rebel or the Nikon D50 because none are weather sealed. But do not be disheartened, they can still be used extensively in a lot of environments, just use common sense. Nikon and Canon have great service all across the globe and if you can get to a city, you will be fine. You can e-mail Canon and Nikon and they can give you various locations on the globe that can assist you with service. What you need to really worry about would be the storage of your pictures and power supplies for your camera and your photo storage unit. "Having lived in South Africa until coming to the UK six months ago I can now testify to the harsh african sun which I've always read about but never understood because I've not been able to compare it to anything. I imagine that glare and harsh light will have an effect on planning shots etc. Does the basic equipment have much of an effect here or will it be my skills and extras eg filters which I will need to look at? I dont really understand the white balance stuff which I've been reading - will this play a role and any recommended sites for more info on this? " Your skill and basic equipment will serve you well if you are taking the photojournalistic approach, however, a decent tripod, circular polarizer and a graduated neutral density filter should be a part of your camera bag if you are also doing landscape photography. The white balance will be tackled soon enough as soon as you get the equipment first. Basically it works much like a filter and its purpose is to make sure that the rendering of the pictures are natural under differing light conditions. "This may sound like a non politically correct question but I imagine that different skin tones require different lighting to really capture the texture and essence - ? Obviously living in Africa most of my portraits will include people who have darker skin. " This is a very valid question, however, taking into account the approach you want to take, you will have to work with the light that nature provides. In a studio setting, the approach would be different. You want to bring out the highlights of the skin in the studio by providing light on both sides of the person. Warm light crossing over the skin brings out gorgeous highlights and a nice glow. "There seems to be a bit of a debate about whether it would be better to learn on a 35mm SLR or a digital. I am tending towards digital because of the more instant feedback and also because I will be able to use it in the future rather than wait 6 months to go to the city to get my film developed. Any suggestions regarding my logic." In the digital age, it is now possible to learn on the fly and get instant feedback from the photos you have taken. If you do not like the results you see on the screen you can make adjustments quite easily. The rules of exposure still apply so you need to read up and learn so that when you look at the photos you can immediately know the type of adjustments needed to get the results you want. Learning on a 35mm SLR is a good thing but not necessary, what you have learned on film, you can apply to Digital SLR, it is all about exposure and the digital camera has more latitude for those still learning. "Planning on doing some travelling in the next year or so and will hopefully be putting my new knowledge into practise during that time - so I'm also looking for something that will give me good range when it comes to travel (wide variety of situations and little things to notice, enjoy and capture.) At the moment my budget is about 600-700 pounds... so it looks like if I stick to digital my options are the canon 350d with 18-55mm kit lens or nikon D50 with af-s18-55mm kit lens. " The Canon 350D is a great little camera but it is a little on the older side and Canon should come out with a replacement soon enough to tackle the Nikon D50. Again, for the type of shooting that you want to do, I would recommend the 18-200mm DX AFS VR from Nikon. Forego the af-s 18-55, see if you can get a deal on the 18-200mm with the D50. -Shoud I wait until I have a bigger budget? No, take pictures now and learn now. Waiting for the next great thing and a bigger budget is time wasted on waiting. There are no pictures and learning involved in waiting. A camera in hand is a learning experience. "-Which of those would you recommend at the moment? -Should I just get one or the other of the bodies and a different lens - if so which body and which lens? -Any other viable options which I havent come across? Lastly - hopefully - any other considerations which I need to think about? " Yes, wait for Chris Laudermilk's recommendations as well and many others that you happen to meet. Then chose which one will work for you, Canon or Nikon will serve you for many years. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 254 Registered: Sep-04 | Heh, it seems we are always waiting to see what the other has to say anymore. I'd say digital is the better way to go--instant feedback, no waiting for film to be developed & this is really the future of photography in general. As Berny mentioned, the issue will be dealing with power and storage. DSLRs are far better on battery usage than P&S cameras, but you will still need to be able to recharge. The other issue will be storage, and powering the storage devices (IMHO, having a huge pile of CompactFlash cards isn't the best solution); the options here are a laptop, which also allows in-the-field post processing, and a portable drive solution like (my favorite) the PD70X, or Epson P-2000. With all that in mind, both the Nikon and Canon models you mentioned are excellent choices & I would recommend those over the competition. Since you don't have an investment in either, I would say go to a camera shop that will let you play with them, that way you can see which suit you better. The main differences are the controls layout on them. BTW, I (and most Canon shooters) are expecting a 20D replacement sooner than a Rebel XT replacement, but we won't really know until Canon announces something. The 5D is really more a new niche than the 20D update. Anyway, you can't go wrong with either the Rebel or D50 I think the kit lenses should do ok as a starting point for landscapes. The longer lenses Berny mentioned would be excellent choices for PJ/candid shots. Canon has three different lenses in the 70-200mm range. The least expensive is f4, the pricier ones are f2.8, one with Image Stabilization. I would think for most use in brighter light the f4 will serve you well & cost half what the other do. I've used both the f4 and f2.8IS and both are excellent lenses. For digital really the only useful filter is the polarizer. The ND filter can be replicated in post processing on the computer with finer control--you just need to spend some time learning THAT tool. White balance mostly comes into play with odd lighting sources, or mixed lighting sources. In general, especially with natural light, you can get away with setting it to Auto & leaving it alone. Again, WB can be adjusted in the computer. Ultimately the main thing is to pick a camera & get it into you hands. Then start shooting, that is the best way to learn & you will start to figure out the requirements for your type of shooting. |
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Aaron757 Unregistered guest | Berny and Chris I have a few things I would like to pick your brains with also. First off let me say that you two are amazing and its great of you to provide such great help to people....many forums could learn a thing or two from you two Ok on to the question...I am a budding photographer that as of right now has a low end P/S Sony Cybershot. I am an artist who designs T shirts for companys like Hooters and Harley Davidson and use photoshop for a living. So post editing will be no problem for me. I was looking at getting a SLR camera soon and take a class or two and pick up a few books. I was looking at the D70 kit with the lens that I read so much about in this thread. As a beginer do you think this is a good camera? Or do you think I should just get a high end P/S camera like the Canon S2? I really want to get into doing this as a hobby/sidejob I get lots of compliments on my pictures with my camera now with compisition and such. Being an artist I know all the "rules" of a compisition...such as focal points and such. I dont mind the high price tag of the D70 becouse I look at it as an ivestment in myself. So I just wanted to see what you two thought before I take the plunge. Thank you in advance! |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 257 Registered: Sep-04 | "....many forums could learn a thing or two from you two" Don't discount this one--I gave up on the HT section months ago, I only hang out here any more. I would say if you are heading into a semi-pro level, a DSLR is the best route since P&S cameras are pretty limiting. For a beginner in the realm of DSLRs I would say the D50 or D70 on the Nikon side or Rebel XT on the Canon side are your best bets. Those are the most basic & low-cost bodies available--if you think they are expensive you're in for a shock, check the prices on the top level bodies (think D50 plus another zero before the decimal--I'm not kidding). In reality the body is going to be one of the smaller costs, you will end up spending more on lenses. But hte advantage is that a well-selected lens collection will be optimized for your own needs & have superior quality to anything a P&S can do. I willl assume you don't have any investment in a film rig. So, my best advice is go into a cmaera store and play with the entry level bodies of both Nikon & Canon. Both offer extremely competent cameras, the main differences are in the controls and some minor feature differences. What sort of photography are you thinking of getting into? |
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Aaron757 Unregistered guest | Also most of my shots will be of Cars, mostly standing shots or moving shots on the road. Macro shots are something I really want to get into. Close up shots that are ultra sharp and detailed are photos I love but have not had a camera that can pull it off. Just wanted to add that to my previous question. |
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Aaron757 Unregistered guest | Thanks Chris, As I said above most cars and macro shots. Ive actually had a few local muscle car groups pay me a decent wage to take some group shots and personal shots even with my Sony. Also I will be doing some family photos. Im leaning more towards the D70s with the lens kit. Then get a tripod and a 1gb card (any suggestions?) |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4538 Registered: Dec-03 | Both Canon and Nikon are excellent cameras and as Chris stated, both will serve you well regardless of brand. The majority of your photographic expense will be spent on lenses. This is the area where you don't want to go cheap. Macro lenses fall into that category, they are not cheap. For the shots you want, invest in good glass, again BOTH companies make the best lenses so you can't go wrong. A good sturdy well constructed tripod is definitely a must, and a good tripod is also not cheap. Look into Manfrotto, Bogen and Gitzo. As for memory cards look into getting multiple lower capacity cards as opposed to 1 big capacity cards. "Do not put your eggs all in one basket" as the saying goes. And stick to the more popular brands like Lexar and Sandisk. Nikon has made a list of cards they have tested that are not likely to fail in their cameras. So choose well. |
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Aaron757 Unregistered guest | Very nice thanks for all your help Berny. Im really looking forward to getting this camera. I will probably be ordering it from Newegg.com. They have it for a very good price and good prices on the memory cards. I will probably be taken a class to understand alot of the menus of a SLR digi cam...is there a book out there that can help with this? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4545 Registered: Dec-03 | There are plenty of books available. Check the recommendations on the earlier posts on this thread. There is also a book by Thom Hogan, do a google search for his website and you should be able to find a book that deals with the D70. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 258 Registered: Sep-04 | Yep, either camera will do just fine. I have a bunch of good car shots taken at the yearly Ford show I attend; they can be a fun, challenging subject when you try and get away from the ubiquitous front 3/4 shot. Don't cheap out on lenses, that is really more important than the actual body you select. I've done little macro so am not real familiar with the offerings. I know the Canon shooters are happy with the macros in their line; I would expect Nikkor lenses to be excellent as well. For memory, with Nikon I would use SanDisk or Lexar--Nikon apparently takes advantage for the WA technology in Lexars; for Canon stick with SanDisk, Lexars have problems in the Canons. For myself I use 3 1GB SanDisk Ultra II cards and a PD70X portable drive unit. Another tripod option to look into is the Feisol, it's basically a Gitzo knockoff & has gotten good reviews from the field. You can find them at their own site, or at Eastgear. With tripods like lenses, don't cheap out on the leg/head combo; IIRC Thom has a pretty good article about tripod selection. |
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kelliee Unregistered guest | well, it looks like after all that i'm barely going to be able to afford the d50, so thats what i'm getting. i thought i would be getting more money for christmas, but i basically got squat. maybe i can find a used d70 near me for around the same price... i'm just going to get the d50 body and buy a different lens since the kit lens, from what i've heard from multiple sources, is cheap and not so great. except after seeing these pictures i'm not so sure thats true... http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=15654118 flimsy, yeah... but maybe it still has decent glass? or maybe its just the guy behind the camera... anyway, i'm looking for a non-digital auto focus lens that is the equivalent to the 18-70. i tried looking it up and came up with the 28-100 or the 35-105. i want non-digital because if i ever get a nikon film body i want the lenses to be compatable. i found a few 28-100 F3.5-5.6 G's for under $100 used on keh.com as well as the 35-105 F3.5-4.5 D's for under $200 and one under $100. i have no idea if these are good lenses or not... i just want a good all around lens like the 18-70 since i wont be able to buy more lenses for a while. i also want to get the BR-2A reversing ring, so i can take some nice macro shots... what would you suggest berny? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4581 Registered: Dec-03 | Hello kelliee, The lenses you have specified are good lenses. Out of the 2 I will choose the 35-105mm D. The problem you will have with these lenses would be that you do not have any wide angle coverage at all. I really wouldn't call this one an all around lens, but it is not a bad start. Look out for good sales on the 18-70mm lenses. With the advent of the 18-200mm VR lens from Nikon, I suspect that a lot of 18-70mm owners will promptly unload their lenses in favor of these new wonder lens. |
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MikeEProf Unregistered guest | Berny and Chris, I'd like to continue the praise lauded upon you...I've learned more in reading this forum over the past day than I have numerous other sites. I would also like to humbly ask your opinion. I am a technogeek who is rapidly trying to make up ground in the understanding of photography. I have dreams of white balance, Moire and light metering! I have been utilizing some basic digital cams to build image galleries for my day job as a professor but wish to move up to the DSLR level. After spending a lot of time engaging in "analysis paralysis", I have narrowed the options to the D70s and EOS 20D. I have "played" with both at local stores and have really enjoyed the results from both. I intend to utilize the camera for portraits and more photojournalistic endeavors (such as collecting the images for use in my courses). The one area that I've not been able to find a great deal of research out there is the area of portaiture. In terms of doing some portrait work, would you recommend going with the lower priced D70s and having money left over for a really nice piece of glass, or going with the 20D which costs a bit more, and then puchasing a decent portrait lens like the 50mm 1.8? I realize that neither of these cams will give the portrait quality of the pro level cameras, but I am wondering if there is any "buzz" as to which brand cam/lens combo might take better portraits at the price point that these cams can be found at. Thank you for your time... Mike |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4584 Registered: Dec-03 | Being a self-proclaimed techno geek, it is very easy to get caught up in analysis paralysis! One tends to over analyze every little detail involved in the evaluation of what makes a camera the better choice over the other. And techno geeks often fail to consider the one important factor in photography, the person behind the lens. Regardless of technology, the person makes the photograph, the camera is just a tool to render the vision the photographer can see. Both cameras will give pro level portrait quality. There is no buzz as to which one will make a better portrait camera. The lenses will have a lot more to do with your vision than the camera body. So guess what, you are still in the same quandary as before, The Nikon D70 is in a totally different class from the Canon20D. The D70 is geared more towards those that are just starting out in the Digital SLR routine. The 20D is focused (no pun inteded) on the photographer that has a firmer grasp on the relationships between aperture and shutter values and how they interact with each other. Now let me add to the analysis paralysis...go look at the Nikon D200 |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4585 Registered: Dec-03 | and the Canon D5. My point, you can choose either camera and you will be happy, even with the Nikon D50 or Canon Digital Rebel. It is all up to you. The Nikon guy says get the Nikon and will proceed to banter about the virtues of the Nikon. The Canon guy says get the Canon and will proceed to banter about the virtues of the Canon. The ________ guy says get the ________ and will proceed to banter about the virtues of the ______. See what I mean? |
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Karen P Unregistered guest | Hi berny and chris Thanks for the prompt response to my questions - much appreciated...hopefully going out to play with different options a little later today. Will let you know! |
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Karen P Unregistered guest | Hi - me again. Any comments on the canon 55-200mm f4.5/5.6 II USM. If I do decide to go for the D50 what would your recommendations be regarding a 18-70mm, 18-55mm or 28-100mm (all f3.5-5.6) considering my previous post? |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 261 Registered: Sep-04 | Both bodies will do great in all of your stated uses. As Berny has stated, they are not truly in the same class. The D50 is the entry level Nikon, the D70 is their midrange; the closest Canon competitor is the Rebel XT. The 20D is a near-pro (many pros use it as either their backup or primary body). It seems the D200 and 5D are Nikon and Canon's entry-level pro bodies now. Then you get into the megabuck tanks of the 1D MkII and D2X. Tthe glass you get is more important; you can get better pictures by putting pro-quality glass on a Rebel or D50 than you could hope to achieve with junk glass on those megabuck pro bodies. The 50/1.8, while cheaply built, has some of the best optics out there; we Canon shooters love it & consider it the best deal there is in lenses ($70, or about $150 if you go for a used Mk I metal mount like mine, still a deal). Really to decide, look at the features they offer and the interface that works better for you (Canons are more menu-driven, Nikons are more physical dial-and-button); then go with that system. As for the "not-pro-level portraits," I beg to differ: http://64.81.80.185/photography/portfolio go to the tail end of the Portraiture section. That is what you can do with a 20D & good glass (in that shoot, a 70-200/f4, 17-40/f4, 85/f1.2, and the 50/f1.8 were at my disposal), and a portable lighting rig. Equivalent qualiy Nikkor glass on a D50 can easily get similar results. BTW, checking the Photozone review database, the 55-200 gets awful reviews, and at the price ($209 at Adorama), I'm not surprised. I'd pass. You really want to save up & get better glass. |
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MikeEProf Unregistered guest | Berny and Chris, Thank you for the feedback...it is quite helpful in making a decision. As a side note Chris, I loved your landscape shots...what a great inspiration! FWIW, I came across this gents' site the other day and decided that it confirms what you folks have been stating about the power of the photographer combined with a nice cam/lens setup (of course, having the beautiful tapestry helps!). Many of these shots are with the 20D and the Canon EFS 17-85mm IS lens... http://www.pbase.com/sdwinsor/wakefield Peace. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4587 Registered: Dec-03 | MikeEProf, Check out this website as well. http://www.j3r.com/photo/ The photos were taken by the D70 and the 18-70 kit lens. Other lenses used are specified but the photographs were done mostly by using just the kit lens. |
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Unregistered guest | After reading your many helpful postings, I've decided that I'm probably best suited to a Nikon D50 camera. Instead of buying a kit lens, I'd like to apply the funds toward saving for the new 18-200 AF-S DX. In the meantime I was thinking of using my AF Nikkor 35-105 that is on my Nikon 2020 film camera. What kind of problems or limitations might I encounter? I welcome any other advice about lens'. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4596 Registered: Dec-03 | Jim K, You should not encounter any problems or limitations with that lens anymore than what you have experienced with your film camera unless the lens is AI-S, then it would not meter. For more specifics http://www.aiconversions.com/compatibilitytable.htm |
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kelliee Unregistered guest | do you think nikon will put a different rebate out on the d50/d70s soon after the current one expires? it would be nice to get a rebate on the actual camera instead of a printer i dont want... i'm willing to wait to find out because i want to save up more money anyway, so i can upgrade to the d70s instead of settling for the d50. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 265 Registered: Sep-04 | MikeEProf, Thanks. Those also help make the point that it's not the gear, but the photographer. The landscapes were all taken a couple of years ago with my Nikon 995--a 3.3MP P&S. I really want to get back out there with the 20D. Also, check the EXIF data on the portraits, many of them were the 995 as well. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4611 Registered: Dec-03 | kelliee Nikon will always have rebates and they usually go on a quarterly time frame. So, yes, they should have another rebate right after this offer expires. |
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AndrewNZ Unregistered guest | Hi Guys, I have been reading this forum with much interest as I have a Canon 350D with the standard kit lens. I have just been given two second hand Canon Lenses (CANON EOS 75-300MM F4-5.6 & EF 35-105MM) and I was wondering they will fit onto the 350D body? If they do, what limitations will they have and is there anything I shopuld look out for when using these lenses? I am still learning the photography "art" so would appreciate any advice you guys can give. Thanks for your time (and patience!) Andrew Auckland NEW ZEALAND |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4763 Registered: Dec-03 | You'll be fine with those lenses and if they are of the EF or EF-S variety, you should not have any issues at all. As far as advice is concerned, you may want to read the whole thread and ignore the nikon/canon debate. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4764 Registered: Dec-03 | Chris Laudermilk is the resident Canon guy, so he could give you better advice on lenses |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 266 Registered: Sep-04 | Not that I'm an expert yet... ;) Yes, it should work. Any EOS lens should work fine on the 350D. If you really get a bug for something odd, the nice thing about the EOS mount is there should be an adapter to fit. |
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AndrewNZ Unregistered guest | Thanks very much guys, your input and time is much appreciated! |
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mjcr Unregistered guest | Berny, Chris just to let you know I have been merrily shooting away with my 20D with 17-85mm lens and am blown away by the results. But as you suggest stepping up from a nikon coolpix 4500 to either the 20D or D70 would be impressive. I am on a steep learning curve but the capability of this camera is awesome for a bad amateur like me. I have yet to use it for work (dental shots) as there was a mix up with the macro lens order but hopefully will soon be resolved. Have purchased a couple of very useful beginners books on digital photog and Photoshop but probably need to do a few night courses on basic fundamentals. Feel like a child in a sweet shop with this weapon and am taking shots of absolutely everything! Really appreciate all your advice, understand now what you mean by "just buy one and start taking pics". Can't wait to get my hands on the macro lens. thanks again guys |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4868 Registered: Dec-03 | Glad you are enjoying your renewed interest in photography |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 277 Registered: Sep-04 |  I knew you'd like it, the 20D is really a fantastic tool. I'm still expanding my knowledge (playing a lot in M mode lately). Just keep going back to the manual, but there's nothing like experience behind the viewfinder. Photoshop has a steep learning curve, but the climb is worth it. The best books I've run across to help out are Real World Photoshop by Bruce Fraser, and Adobe Photoshop for Photographers by Martin Evening. Worlds better than the manual (I read it & didn't learn a whole lot). If you get stuck, let me know. Also, go over to ferdmiranda.com (a very friendly community & extremely knowledgeable--very Canon-heavy populace), and photography-on-the.net (a Canon shooter's forum). |
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kelliee Unregistered guest | hey berny, the nikon service department on the west coast is less than 5 minutes away from my house! pretty awesome, eh? i still havent gotten my d70s. i'm trying to decide whether i should get a used one or a brand new one. the only thing thats keeping me from getting a used one is that (i think) i wont have a warranty for it (and wont be able to purchase one), and i'm just afraid that it's going to die on me and it wont be worth the money i saved. so i wanted to ask if you know anything about the warranty and extended warranty and if they are transferrable if the person has the original receipt for the camera (and if i'm S.O.L if they dont)? and how much time do i have to buy an extended warranty if i was to buy a new camera? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4896 Registered: Dec-03 | I'm sorry kelliee, I know nothing about warranties if they are transferrable or not. The thing is, I really would not get a used camera right now, just because of warranty issues. You can, however, send an e-mail to Nikon or walk down and have a friendly chat with the Nikon representative just about those issues |
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MikeEProf Unregistered guest | Berny and Chris, Just a note to say thank you again for your help last month. After going to several stores, taking pics, printing pics, etc...my wife and I decided to go with the Nikon D50. Based upon my observations I would suggest the following: 1. If you're looking for the best "out of the box kit" snapshot capability in terms of color and sharpness, I'd go with the D50. This is what ultimately lead us in this direction. My wife really wanted a camera that would give great point and shoot images without needing to tune the settings...and our results found the D50 to be the best value terms of color, sharpness and price(we had narrowed our choices to XT, D50 and D70s). 2. If you wish to go with Canon, but are on a budget like my wife and I were, I'd go with the XT, but go body only and save for a nicer lens. The XT kit lens really does hamper the photo quality (camera size was also a little small for my wife). When you put a nicer lens on the XT, the images are vastly improved. 3. The Canon 20D is one sweet machine. If you can afford it, get it. But again, go body only, skip the kit lens and save for a nicer lens. Our photo results found the Rebel XT images to be of equal to the 20D with their kit lenses(cameras were set to the same settings). You can hear it, but until you experience it...you don't realize how much difference the glass makes. Now...when you put even a slightly nicer lens on the 20D...whoa...crystal...clear....images. 4. The D70s is also a sweet machine. Great images, but not quite as saturated out of the box as the D50. The kit lens really is a quality accessory. We were highly tempted to go in this direction, but my wife thought the D50 gave better images at it's base settings. 5. Ultimately, for the average user, any of these cameras are going to take better snapshots than most folks are used to. But the XT and D50 are tuned more for this user group. As you have mentioned, I highly encourage folks to go play with all of the options and feel them in their hands, play with the menus, test out the focus, print out sample images, and finally...ask themselves...do I really want more of a point and shoot camera...or do I wish to push the camera to it's limits and use all of it's capabilities? Ultimately, my wife and I were on different wave lengths in terms of desired uses...and the D50 won out at our price point...for under $700 we are taking great pics and with what we saved, we're able to purchase other lenses (a 50mm so I can learn with the classic lens) and accessories (speedlight)... But boy...if you can afford it...20D...20D...20D. Again, thank you for your balanced approach to this issue. It helped make for a wonderful buying experience... Mike |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4974 Registered: Dec-03 | Glad to have had given some input to another budding photographer. Enjoy the hobby! |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 281 Registered: Sep-04 | You've got it--better glass is more important than a fancier body. The lower end DSLRs are definitely aimed more at the novice photographer stepping up from a P&S. And, yes, with enough budget the 20D IMHO is one of the best no-professional bodies available. Any one of the Nikon or Canon bodies can make great photos with good glass on them. I had specific requirements that pointed me to get the 20D (non-flash action shots at stage shows--very, very demanding & the 20D is just the ticket for that). I've posted my portfolio site URL in a couple of these thread is you really wnat to see how a 20D can be pushed; the challenging images are mainly on a 50mm/f1.8 Mk I and the 70-200mm/f2.8IS. Truly incredible combinations. Anyway, have fun with your new camera & explore all of its functions. |
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yepthatworks Unregistered guest | I'm thinking of the Nikon D50 v. Canon 350. I have to try them both out in my hands to see comfort; but from everything I am reading here, they are gonna produce great pictures, etc. 1. Low light visibility inside the eye piece -- any opinion on Nikon v. Canon? 2. Lens -- I see some of the zoom lenses are probably a good idea. For example, 18 -- 200mm; 55 -- 200mm; 70 -- 300mm; 18 -- 70mm. Do you have opinions on why one v. another for the average user? Are these all weight wise or length wise similar or different? 3. Do you have an opinion on tamron v. sigma v. Nikon v. other vendor for each lens in terms of quality and so on? They seem price similar enough by and large at the low end, which you may not advise getting v. more expensive. but these were listed on Adorama (sp?); so I am very open to hearing your opinion; should i pick 2 to cover the range; or 1 for the full? and what reasonable pricing can I expect in your opinion. On another subject. I was also interested in a micro camera (canon sd450; Casio exilim; sony t5) size range --I am concerned vis-à-vis reliability. I understand the canon experiences a "E18" error which locks up the lens -- am I am better off with the sony since it has an internal zoom mechanism v. the external for Canon? Have any of you seen the canon error? Do the Casio's experience the same problem? And, for each, what is the "smallness" of the charger for traveling, etc. in your opinion. Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 6530 Registered: Dec-03 | Either one will work good and will capture great pictures. 1.Low light visibility in the eye piece??? The light conditions of your environment dictate what you see in the eyepice. It is not an electronic viewfinder that can brighten what you see. Unless you meant the field of view...they are almost the same. 2. Lens choice is a personal matter. It depends on the type of photography that you will be doing. That is why there are so many to choose from. A good place to start would be the 18-70. 3. For lenses I tend to stick with Nikon or Canon. If the price seem similar at the low end so why even bother with generic? For the higher end lenses, if you can save your pennies, do so. They are worth it, and you will see this reflect in the used market. The Nikons and Canons retain their value more than Sigmas or Tamrons or what have you. A reasonable price is market based so do not expect deep discounts from authorized delears. If there is a huge disparity, you need to beware. Gray market lenses cost a little less and I haven't had any problems with them. For micro cameras, stick with Canon or Casio. The Sony has too much chromatic aberrations that I cannot stand. The E18 error happens but it is not as common as you think. The internet tends to inflate those numbers. Same goes for lens problems with the Sony. I haven't heard any problems with the Casio, but they are still pretty new, so we'll see. |
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yepthatworks Unregistered guest | Thank you for quick response. I saw the "grey market" descriptor on the sites -- can you comment on that a bit more? it is unclear what that means from the description in the product listing. Just to clarify on the lens choice -- i did not see "expensive" ones -- i did an open search on "Nikon lenses" at the site and the ones that came up were ~$300 or so. Is there a different site I should visit for better quality and/or used? this discussion list seems pretty strong that better quality lens are the way to go. And, is your experience that the 28 - 300 (for example) is heavy or too bulky or unpleasant for the average user experience or too slow? your answer seems to suggest that I ultimately purchase 2 lenses. We've enjoyed the 10x on the P&S we've used and wanted to maintain that experience as we stepped up to a better grade; but i am not against taking 2 lenses around. thanks again. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 6542 Registered: Dec-03 | If you are going to get the Nikon D50, I highly recommend this lens. http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5&productNr=2159 The 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor. It is the newest lens that Nikon makes and possibly one of the best all around lens I have encountered. If you are only going to have 1 lens for all around use, this is one that I will recommend. It covers the wide end and a reasonable reach in such a compact package. With Vibration Reduction to boot. Read this on grey market. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist.jsp&A=getpage&Q=Gr eyMarketStatic.jsp If you are talking about Canon's 28-300mm lens I think that it is heavy and not that great to carry around by your average user. It is however, a phenomenal lens. Not cheap...I believe that will run you about $2000. If you are referring to the cheaper made glass by Tamron or Sigma, then yes they are not too heavy nor bulky and should work well for the average user. Be however more aware of your expectations. If you are coming from a point and shoot camera to a digital SLR, it will be a big difference. Most point and shoots are designed to be bright a saturated...this attracts the average buyer who tend to judge the picture solely on these points. Digital SLRs tend to present pictures on a more "natural" level, and may seem dull so careful lighting and composition should always be considered. Don't fret, however, you could always set the DSLR to its AUTO setting if you want that point and shoot effect. Canon or Nikon should serve you well and you will be happy with either one. |
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yepthatworks Unregistered guest | I agree. From what I have been reading the D50 may be my next camera. Along with the new 18-200 lens. A few questions: MEMORY: 512 or 1GB memory SanDisk Ultra II? is there a speed difference in using the larger memory? how many pictures should I reasonably expect can be stored on each before downloading? LENS: is the 12-24 needed? does it act as a traditional "wide angle" v. the 18-200? is it lighter or faster focusing that would influcence someone to get this smaller one as well? Finally, would a fixed or small zoom have a better F-stop for indoor pictures, thereby avoiding the flash? Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 6680 Registered: Dec-03 | Your memory question: As far as speeds go, I have not seen any major difference between 512 and 1GB when writing. I just don't go higher than 1 GB, for reasons stated above. The picture amount: It depends on the files you are writing. For 512 at its highest setting short of RAW, I get about 150 pictures. For RAW you can expect about 45-50. I suggest that you download all the pics after each session and not wait until the card is full before downloading. Easier to batch and keep track of sessions. The 12-24 lens is one heck of a lens and I highly recommend it but not needed if your shooting style does not involve a lot of wide angles. The way to figure this is to take your all around lens e.g. and shoot away. Download the pictures and study the EXIF data(this info gives you the seetings of the photos taken). From here you can determine the focal length that you have for each picture. Get the average from all this files and you will be able to determine the average focal length that you shoot from. And from you can determine wther or not you prefer shooitng at wide angles or otherwise. And yes, it does act as a traditional wide angle as opposed to the 18-200. So this would also answer your next question. The influence is mainly from the type of shooting that you prefer to do and not necessarily because it is lighter or faster focusing. Usually a fixed small zoom goes wider for indoor pictures. If you are the type that like to use available light as a photographer this may be the lens for you, but it is far more difficult to gauge available indoor light and takes a fair amount of experience to pull off well. You have to tinker with the ISO settings, noise is also an issue and you have to be very steady with your hands. Even going wide open, there are still factors to consider to ensure a sharp well defined low light photograph. |
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yepthatworks Unregistered guest | Appreciate amazingly quick response. re: memory -- i do download mostly quickly. but on long trips, not always available; so good to have a sense of capacity. re; lens. well. 30(!) years ago (pause. hard to believe.) I had a canon 1.8 50mm, and it worked indoors w/o flash often nicely (not always, of course)... so hence my question on how the 4.8(?) / 5.6 the 18-200 yields performs, assume iso at mid range (~400), and not top level 1600 in order to retain clarity. I find the flash to be distracting in retaining "natural" camera experience. to be honest, i am one of those who are ok with presets and do not want to fuss with post processing and myriad settings. I am an amateur; but appreciate the control and precision the slr & quality lens yield v. p&s, so it goes beyond just trying to get a real shutter that actually clicks when you push the button (first, major frustration with p&s, but not only). I like your suggestion re: running the 18-200 for a while. i read the 18-24 tamkin is a good one -- other's experiences? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 6685 Registered: Dec-03 | Ah, yes, the venerable 50mm 1.8. Another must have lens. That particular lens is still being made for both the Nikon and Canon and performs the same way it always has. You can still buy it new for less than $100. I would recommend that together with the 18-200. Here's a work up on the 18-200: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/18200.htm |
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New member Username: KellieeEl segundo, CA Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | berny, i finally did it... i bought the d70s kit on saturday! i finally scrounged up enough change and i just couldnt wait til summer after wanting this bad boy since november. i know i wont be able to keep my hands off of it for at least a few months (who was i kidding by saying i wouldnt have time? i'll MAKE time!) hopefully i can make some of the money back by taking portraits of peoples pets at one of my jobs. that'd be nice! especially since i bought the d70s instead of paying off my ever growing debt... i should be getting it as early as thursday, or as late as saturday if my calculations are correct. i am SO excited, you have no idea... and i cant wait to try out j3r's camera settings! |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 7138 Registered: Dec-03 | WOO-HOO!!! This calls for a peanut butter jelly dance!  Congratulations...now go out there and start shooting some pictures. |
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New member Username: KellieeEl segundo, CA Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | one more thing berny... i think it was you that told me that if you use certain credit cards, they will extend your warranty for free. how do you find out which ones do? would i get an extended warranty in the mail from the company, or how exactly does it work? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 7139 Registered: Dec-03 | You have to call your credit card company on how that works. Make sure that you register your camera with Nikon...this is very important. |
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New member Username: KellieeEl segundo, CA Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 | what are your thoughts on the 70-300mm/f4-5.6 G lens? is it any good, or is there something better in a similar price range? i can get that lens, a nikon 2 year extended warranty and a camera bag for $170... |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 7162 Registered: Dec-03 | Get it. I really wouldn't worry too much about the extended warranties. |
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New member Username: KellieeEl segundo, CA Post Number: 4 Registered: Mar-06 | i got my camera and i love it! of course nikon decided to lower the price two weeks later... anyway, i was wondering if you could tell me how to get RAW files on my computer? all my jpegs are showing up but the RAW are just not there. i downloaded rawshooter esentials by pixmantec but i dont know if that will help me get the RAW images on my computer or not... |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 7395 Registered: Dec-03 | Use NikonView. Why are you using RAW? |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 298 Registered: Sep-04 | Also, don't bother plugging the camera in directly, use a card reader. I don't know how bad Nikon is with the camera drivers, but if they're anyting like Canon's it's just not worth the hassle. I feel your pain on the price drop, I finally got my 24-70 lens & two days later Canon starts their rebate program--wouldn't you know it, that lens is listed. Argh! |
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New member Username: TedmacPost Number: 9 Registered: Apr-06 | Thanks anyway |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 7592 Registered: Dec-03 | huh? And you are? |
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New member Username: TeresaGoodlettsville, TN USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I am looking to purchase an upgrade, currently using the Fuji S5100 (basically a point & shoot) but looking at the Nikon N70s. In all my reseach comparing the N70s vs. Canon's Rebel XT -one main factor in choosing the N70s over the Rebel XT is that I was told by the retail clerk at Wolfe that my husbands sigma lenses that work on his Nikon N65 35mm will work on the N70s. In researching at various websites, such as Sigma.com, Nikon Lenses (both film and DG's), and other forums disussing these camera / lenses compatibility ... and I have yet to confirm without physically taking the lenses to the store with me (which I may do). So far my findings are that the lenses "may" fit and work on the D70s, but that there's a possibility that the metering on the D70s "may" not work with these lenses. I would greatly appreciate if you guys can tell me whether these lenses are fully compatible with the N70s or limited to manual modes & external light meter, if they will work at all. Sigma LD Macro Super 70-300mm Sigma D 28-80 Asperical P.S. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the past posts and thank you for all the great information and opinions here. Looking forward to your reply. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 7635 Registered: Dec-03 | Welcome to the forum, Teresa. The great thing about Nikon is that the lens mounts have not changed on any of their SLRs and all lenses from the Nikons will fit their Digital line just as well. The only lenses that will not meter with the D70 are those with the AI/AI-s designation. The Sigma lenses that fit on your N70 are fully compatible with the D70. So you have nothing to worry about. |
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New member Username: TeresaGoodlettsville, TN USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06 | Thanks for your speedy reply. I am so excited about this upgrade to D70s that I took both lenses up to the store and tried them on my soon to be new toy. (By the way, my mistake - the N70 is film, the D70s is Digital.) The Sigma LD Macro Super 70-300mm - worked on the D70s !! TheSigma D 28-80 Asperical - did not. I don't know why, but since the camera comes with a very good standard lense to start off with, that's no problem. I have been begging my husband for this upgrade for a couple of months now. I think I've sold him on it. If I get my hands on this thing in the next few days it will take me forever to get the mural that I'm painting finished. I'm not a professional photographer, YET, but it's becoming a passion, so I'm sure I'll be on again. Thanks Berny, catch you on some of the other threads, since you sound full of knowledge. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 7644 Registered: Dec-03 | The 28-80 should also work. Check the aperture ring and see if it is locked in at f/22. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 7645 Registered: Dec-03 | Either way, the lens that came with the D70 is a much better lens than the Sigma and you should be using more than the 28-80. Which by the way should be sold at this time or use it as a dust cap for your older Nikons |