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Can a good Muslim be a good American?

 

Platinum Member
Username: Lklives

Post Number: 16003
Registered: Jan-06
This is very interesting and we all need to read it
from start to finish and send it on to everyone. Maybe this is why
our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any
atrocities. Can a good Muslim be a good American?

This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in
Saudi Arabia for 20 years.



The following is his reply:


Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to
Allah, The moon God of Arabia.

Religiously - no. . . Because no other religion is
accepted by His Allah Except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the

five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to
Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day..

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam
forbids him to make Friends with Christians or Jews .

Politically - no. . . Because he must submit to the
mullahs (spiritual Leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and
destruction of America, The great Sa*tan.

Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to
marry four Women and Beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him
(Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the
American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he
believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad,
and the Quran does Not allow freedom of religion and expression.
Democracy and Islam cannot Co-exist. Every Muslim government is
either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. . . Because when we declare 'one
nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while
Allah is NEVER referred to As Heavenly father, nor is he ever called
love in the Quran's 99 Excellent names.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation....
Perhaps we should be Very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this
country. - - - They obviously Cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good
Americans. Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had
better believe it. The more who understand This, the better it will
be for our country and our future.

The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.

......

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us
from within. SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

THE MARINES WANT THIS TO ROLL ALL OVER THE U.S.

Please don't delete this until you send it on.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nyyfan13

Northern VA

Post Number: 11807
Registered: Jul-06
So are you calling for an all out war against the Muslim people in the United States? What this is basically calling for is a genocide of all Muslims in the United States.

I must say LK, I understand where you're coming from, but if you truly believe all Muslim people are terrorists and are going to try and kill us from inside, then you sir, are by far, without a doubt in my mind, the most ignorant piece of trash I have ever come in contact with.

And with that, I will choose to shut the door to this thread behind me as I leave and choose to never come back in. If I am incorrect in what I am accusing you of, then I will profoundly apologize to you.
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4251
Registered: Oct-06
Stong bigotry, ignorance and hatred in the original post. Not even worth a serious response. Seriously.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Lklives

Post Number: 16006
Registered: Jan-06
The original is NOT my own personal beliefs, just something to think about...regarding the Muslim beliefs, I was NOT aware of many of their beliefs, which do contradict my own as a Christian and an American...
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 22104
Registered: Jun-06
I cannot assume every Muslim in our country is here to embed and secretly destroy us. Who can?

I have MANY views and opinions on immigration and who legally chooses to live here. Most fear what they do not understand especially when a Muslim family moves into their neighborhood in light of the events of 9/11.

I personally take it as a compliment to our country that so many are desperately trying to get in, even if they know what everyone thinks of them and the social struggles they inevitably will encounter. It shows you the choices they have been forced to make and how extreme their circumstances must have been to make such a decision.

Think about it. The Muslim nation is a far bigger one than any group we have here in the US, except the ever increasing amount of morons who can't seem to drive without pizzing me off. Do you see the immigration as a strategic one or more so as an educated one? I can see both sides of the fence. I personally would be climbing the walls to get in myself.


Bottom line is I love my country and LOVE the freedoms we have.






Errr, except the taxes, health care, political corruption, ect......
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10773
Registered: Aug-05
welp.

i will start off by saying that i believe the parts backed up by verses in the Quran, But at the same time, i'm sure not every Muslim follows everything in the Quran just as every Christian doesnt follow everything in the Bible. You can still believe in Allah and not want to kill America, why else would you live here but to enjoy our freedoms and live like we live? :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4252
Registered: Oct-06

quote:

not every Muslim follows everything in the Quran just as every Christian doesnt follow everything in the Bible



This.




LK, just so it's clear, my previous post was not directed at you personally, but rather the portion of the post that was copied and pasted.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10776
Registered: Aug-05
even if the other side of the fence is ugly and unpopular, i try my best to put it all into perspective. unofficial self-taught philosophy major. lmao
 

Gold Member
Username: Mrskullz1

New York

Post Number: 1403
Registered: Feb-07
Wow.

Fack this thread. Wrong in so many ways.



I'm a Muslim American.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Central Florida

Post Number: 10781
Registered: Aug-05
Do you see any prejudices performed towards you since 9/11, now that there is a heightened sense of predatory behavior aimed at Muslims?

not being a d*ck, just trying to understand more and hear from your POV
 

Platinum Member
Username: Lklives

Post Number: 16009
Registered: Jan-06
Skulz...educate us plz, U being a Muslim American...what points are incorrect in the original post..does the Quran and the Pillars of Islam say all those things?....

are U yerself aware of all of these, because honestly I cannot tell U everything thats in the bible...maybe the Koran does say these things and U aren't aware of it, or its all a matter of interpretations which can vary from sect to sect and group to group?...I dunno...that would explain the radicals and activists versus the less "vigilant" and complacent...
 

Gold Member
Username: Mrskullz1

New York

Post Number: 1405
Registered: Feb-07
A few facts ; America is a 'free' country and Muslims follow Islam (religion). Generally, Islam means 'peace'.

My points -

Theologically - Muslim allegiance IS to Allah (God). We follow Him, worship Him, and obey His religious beliefs from the Holy Book (Qur'an/Koran). But don't Jews and Christians do the same to their very own? Would they be classified as 'good' Americans? What classifies anyone as a 'good' American?

Religiously - Again, Muslims follow Islam and believe Allah is our God. Don't Christians follow Christianity and believe Jesus as their God? And don't the Jews have their own followers and act the same way? And by the way, we believe in Jesus and accept him as a Prophet in Islam.

Scripturally - Yes, we do follow the 5 Pillars of Islam - which are believing in God, praying 5 times a day, fasting during the month of Ramadan, giving to charity, and Hajj (visiting a Holy place). This also goes along with following the Qur'an (Koran) - which is being peaceful, not stealing, NOT killing innocent people, following the 'right' path, etc... How can all of this classify us as being bad in general?

Socially - you stated Muslims are forbidden to make friends with Jews or Christians. This is false. Our Prophet (peace be upon him), spread the religion through peace and being kind with everyone around. His idea was to show others how peaceful the religion is so they can see the beauty of it and accept it. I myself have so many Jewish and Christian friends - and I respect their religion and what they believe in. What harm does that bring?

Politically - You said "no. . . Because he must submit to the
mullahs (spiritual Leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and
destruction of America, The great Sa*tan". This is FALSE. Our allegiance is to Allah. We do NOT believe Israel or America is S@tan.
I will choose to keep it at this. I can surely supply you with more info on this matter if you believe you need it.

Domestically - as stated above, "no. .. . Because he is instructed to
marry four Women and Beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him". LOL I love this one. YES its true - but do you know the reasons behind this? Muslims CAN have up to 4 wives, but that doesn't mean that they DO or HAVE to. So yes, a man CAN have up to 4 wives, but only if he treats them EXACTLY the same way and fulfills their responsibilities......which is quite impossible these days.
And now the beating part - this has been interpreted so wrong. If you look closely at the verse where you got that info from, you will see that if the Prophet hit his wife, it would be with a STRAW. Yes, a 'straw'. Wow, imagine what a Muslim woman would look like after a beating LOL. And when is the last time you heard about a Muslim women with a case of domestic violence? Check out the news, and see how many of these domestic violence cases involve ANY Muslims. And if you do, compare them with others.....surprised?
And BTW, Islam is the first religion that gave rights to women.

Intellectually - you posted " no. . Because he cannot accept the
American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he
believes the Bible to be corrupt".
First off, how many different versions of the Bible are there?
And how many different versions of the Qur'an are there?
The Constitution is NOT the Bible. In fact, many parts of the Constitution are contrary to the Bible.
I choose not to discuss this matter any further. However, if you wish for more info, i can surely supply.

Philosophically - you stated "no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad,
and the Quran does Not allow freedom of religion and expression.
Democracy and Islam cannot Co-exist. Every Muslim government is
either dictatorial or autocratic". This is false - Islam IS a democracy to a certain extent. As a matter of fact, Islam brought democracy much before the idea was ever brought by certain civilizations.

Spiritually - You stated "no. . . Because when we declare 'one
nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while
Allah is NEVER referred to As Heavenly father, nor is he ever called
love in the Quran's 99 Excellent names".
There is nothing wrong with "one nation under God". We believe in God just like you believe in God. It does NOT say "one nation under Jesus" (which again we DO believe as our Prophet). Muslims believe as God being 1 and not in a trinity.
- 'Allah is NEVER referred to As Heavenly father" - ???? The very first verse of our holy book translates - "In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful."
Have you read any of the translations to the 99 names? Please enlighten yourself.



Whenever I turn on the news/radio and I hear them talking about war...I always come across the terms; Islamic-terrorism/terrorists, 'Islamic-extremism', 'Islamo-fascism'. These are ALL oxymorons.

I don't mean to come across as being an @$$ but this issue is getting worse as days go by. People take words, put them out of context, and make their own definitions out of them. There is nobody to blame but the media. All the government controlled media.

BTW.....Do you know what REALLY happened on 9/11 and who was REALLY behind it? I just look at the facts - nothing else. Trying to live my life like the normal citizen that I am (or am I?).




Josh:
After 9/11 - Muslims are getting treated extremely unethically. I live in the city. The population is so diverse out here that I really don't feel prejudiced. However, travelling IS very hard. We, or at least I, come across so many 'random' checkups its not even funny.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 22106
Registered: Jun-06
Wow, good post.


I have to say that the prejudices you feel are not that unlike what African-Americans have felt for many years, or any minority since the 50's. Even with the civil rights movement most African-Americans still feel the awkwardness. It ALSO fuels how any white feels inside an elevator when a younger black male enters. It also depends on what part of the country you're from. Down South the mentality amongst the black population is extremely different than those North of Virginia or so. Yet the feelings against Muslims are sparked from a much deeper wound that many won't let heal. I myself vividly remember watching not only the 2 jets fly into the trade center but also the many middle Eastern women and children screaming in joy because of it.

It took many years for the Japanese-Americans to feel at ease after Pearl Harbor also. It didn't matter if they were involved or even agreed with the actions of their mother land, they were treated the same way.

You are correct that the media plays a huge roll in how ppl see and eventually feel about anything. The government has been pulling those strings for many years. (I think CNN has its' own floor in the pentagon.)

Also you have to realize where you live. NY? That's going to be ground zero for many years and you simply have to understand the fears and prejudices ppl in that area are going to have. Most are blind guppies who gobble up what they are fed.

Tell me this though. What if the tables were turned? What if an American family moved to the middle East? Would they be greeted with open and friendly arms? Would they make it a week?
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 22107
Registered: Jun-06
Oh, and about the 4 wives part. As a man I'd have to say "Whoo Hoo!"


As a person I'd have to say that it's hypocritical for a man with 4 wives is ok as long as they are treated equally. If anyone has a 21st century mind then they'd see the irony in this. Not only does this demean the women and treat them more like a possession but it gives the man an undeserved sense of superiority. A marriage, in at least my mind, is an EQUAL lifelong bond between a man and women. It's IMPOSSIBLE for any man to give each of his 4 wives his heart. In a sense he's only giving her 1/4th of it, yet he "deserves" 100% of hers?


In today's modern world it's not only impractical but also too damn expensive lol.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Central Florida

Post Number: 10788
Registered: Aug-05
AMAZING ENLIGHTENING INFORMATIVE POST Mr. Skullz!!!! see that is what we need to get rid of all this ignorance and hate. information and the TRUTH. awesome stuff Skullz.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Central Florida

Post Number: 10789
Registered: Aug-05

quote:

I myself vividly remember watching not only the 2 jets fly into the trade center but also the many middle Eastern women and children screaming in joy because of it.




This


Still hurts.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mrskullz1

New York

Post Number: 1406
Registered: Feb-07
I hear ya Paul.

Honestly, I don't have a straight answer to that question. To me, it depends on how you approach it.

If your talking about going there these days, why would anyone even want to move to the middle east? To get bombed? I swear - everyday there are SOOO many bomb blasts that are happening just inside Pakistan, why would anyone even want to go there? And any of this barely gets covered in the news or papers. Even natural disasters that occur there BARELY get reported here. How about the former prime minister who was recently assassinated? I honestly don't even want to dig into details as I consider it pouring oil on the fire.

Anyways - in my opinion, the initial discussion's main point is to promote this 'war on terrorism'. Now is the war really on terrorism? Or is it something more than that? And who started this 'war'?

"Would they make it a week?" - Paul, I don't think the answer to that question would be the same if this 'war' didn't exist.


I honestly don't know what/who to believe anymore. There is way more fiction than fact out there. We just gotta open our heads and start thinking outside the box. Seriously - all this media is here to manipulate us. We just need to be able to read between the lines.

Thats all I have to say about that.

Paul - just a little more clarification on the wives part. You must take into consideration when this rule was imposed. Back then women were not being treated equal. This approach was taken so the women COULD be treated equal.
I'm am no scholar nor a teacher of Islam. As a matter of fact, I don't even completely follow Islam the way I should - which I regret and hope to change.

Society changes overtime and greatly effects people's habits.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mrskullz1

New York

Post Number: 1407
Registered: Feb-07
Thanks Josh
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 22108
Registered: Jun-06
Yes indeed. This planet and everyone in it does evolve and change over time, and so must our minds to continue to survive in it.

I am a Catholic yet haven't been to church in years. I still believe in many of the things I was taught but haven't been a "practicing" Catholic member. What I have taken from it though is that you can worship your "God" in any fashion you choose. Just like grieving a loss of a family member or friend. I personally never cry at any funeral I go to. Some ball their eyes out while questioning my feelings. That's MY business.

And it's also our responsibility to change our laws and religious practices to continue to grow as a species. Just as we make amendments to our constitution we must also amend ourselves. I'm not talking about reinventing the wheel either, just..............evolving it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mrskullz1

New York

Post Number: 1408
Registered: Feb-07
I agree Paul.

LOL @ single Muslim ads! ahaha

Always cracks me up.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Lklives

Post Number: 16016
Registered: Jan-06
Skullz...thanks for your post and views...I think BOTH the bible and the Koran can be interpreted in so many various ways , that is why we have EXTREMISTs and RADICALS, both Muslim and Americans, right wingers and left wingers...I don't think there is 1 person who can actually say for certain what either book meant when originally written...so what we beleive is all about our own interpretations of history and current events....
 

Gold Member
Username: The_image_dynamic

San Diego, California

Post Number: 5600
Registered: Dec-06
Just because one happens to live here doesn't make them "an American". I have a huge issue with that.

If I moved to Japan, am I all of a sudden Japanese? If I move to Italy, does that make me an Italian? No -- it just makes me another white loser who happens to live in their country.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Central Florida

Post Number: 10794
Registered: Aug-05
So people live here to enjoy our freedoms, but hate each and every one of us and every thread in the fabric that holds our nation together? what the hell is the point of living here then?
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 22113
Registered: Jun-06
Yes this country was once the "melting pot". Meaning one country made up from many different backgrounds, religions, and ancestry. Our freedoms make us who we are. Immigration however isn't what it used to be. Years ago immigrants were hard working people looking for a chance and willing to earn a living, and the number of which was regulated and controlled. Today the shear numbers pouring into our land alone is what's destroying our system. When you consider that those living off welfare and government freebies here still have it so much better than millions living in much worse conditions in 3rd world countries it's no wonder they are climbing the fences.

Problem now is the social fabric of our beloved land and standard of living is deteriorating at an alarming rate because of these numbers. By no means am I saying all immigrants today are freeloaders. It's just that this country isn't getting bigger last time I checked. Jobs are being sent overseas, computers and robotics are taking away even more, and more and more contractors are hiring immigrant help to remain competitive. Why pay a union carpenter $25/hr with benefits when he can get 3 Mexican laborers minus the benefits for the same money? So where does that leave those getting laid off?


In regards to those leaving their country in a mass exodus.........when a ship is sinking at sea and there aren't enough life boats shouldn't half the crew try and fix the damn hole before over filling the boats, damning them all?
 

Gold Member
Username: Van_man

Boston South, MA

Post Number: 5186
Registered: Mar-06
So, The Muslin religion has been around for thousands of years and has cited death to America, A country which has only been around a few hundred years? So were they hating on the native americans before that?

"lets blow up sitting bulls teepee."


Honestly, Its hate spam like this that continues to prolong and exasperate the racial seperation of ppl around the world.

We all need to solidify and encompass the melancholy of our existence in this world.

Skulz, That was a noble rebuttal.
Paul, Keep them rose colored glasses on, You are a true optomistic.






(I've left out the part, "Because he must submit to the
mullahs (spiritual Leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and
destruction of America, The great Sa*tan." for dramatic effect)

But if the spiritual leaders change, do the views change as well? Like if the new leader declares, "No one shall wear cloth made of cotton" Then when the next leader comes into power, can declear, "only cotton clothes shall be worn"?

sorry, kinda gone of tandom......
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Central Florida

Post Number: 10798
Registered: Aug-05

quote:

In regards to those leaving their country in a mass exodus.........when a ship is sinking at sea and there aren't enough life boats shouldn't half the crew try and fix the damn hole before over filling the boats, damning them all?




This is what needs to be done, fundamentally, to solve the problem at it's root. But even now, in the 21st century, countries are still struggling to provide an economy thats no where even close to ours. So everyone comes to America despite its shortcomings and greedy, close-minded inhabitants for a piece of that little pie called success and happiness. If every country could even come close to doing it like we do it, then people wouldn't be pouring in to our country for a better chance to survive. I hear ya, Pauly.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Central Florida

Post Number: 10799
Registered: Aug-05
the majority of this "hate spam" to which you refer is from the Muslim-Extremist sects like the Jihadist movement. They are a FRACTION of the Muslim population, but they are where all of this propaganda stems from. That would be like Africans sending emails (assuming they could do this in that poor, forsaken country that is in desperate need of many things, not just money) out to each other that ALL Americans hate black people and wish them to be hung in the streets. That we all wear white hoods and we would not be "good Americans" if we didnt eat white bread and spare ribs, and listen to country music and go to church on sunday and in the evening prosecute the Africans living in the Unites States.

If you are unsure as to which extremist group i am talking about, it is the Ku Klux Klan. They are a very SMALL minority of people compared to the greater 300+ million people that live in the United States. But those would be the ones that made it into the Emails and television broadcasts in Africa showing their people how to hate and despise us, so that they may continue to secure oil deposits for the next century by "securing the American people" and "helping them rebuild a democracy"

think about it, if we were the Muslims and the Africans were the Americans in my preconceived situation, how fucked is it?

pretty fucked.
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