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McGwire admits roid use.

 

Gold Member
Username: Naledge503

Portland, OR USA

Post Number: 4278
Registered: Jun-06
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4816607



Now if only A-Rod, Bonds, Clemens, and the list goes on, would admit it. Don't know how it would affect anything. I for one don't think that any of these players career stats should be affected. Juicing is not going to make you see the ball and turn on it any differently. People who have not played baseball do not understand how difficult it is to hit just a regular fastball. Juicing is also not going to make a pitcher throw their curveball or anything any better. It might increase a players longevity in the league....maybe. I say shame on the players but do not take any of their stats. That's just my opinion and I don't expect it to be the popular one.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 21817
Registered: Jun-06
Well IMO those chemically altering their bodies outside of league rules not only send a bad message to those who look up to them but are simultaneously disrespecting those in the past who set the records naturally. It would be like suddenly changing the rules in a stock car race or shortening the track in the Kentucky derby. If they discover a "stock" car isn't to specs after a driver wins he is stricken of the trophy no? Because he isn't playing inside the parameters everyone else is. And NO athlete can hide behind the "I wasn't aware I was being juiced" excuse. And if roids were legal it would only spark more research in chemical enhancement thus pushing the human body even further beyond its' natural intent. Like sending 100w to a 60w light bulb. Sure it may shine brighter but at what cost? Those who juice it up will certainly pay the price later in life.

Then there's the debate over who really played straight and how at this point can anyone prove otherwise?

To me any physical game be it the olympics, baseball, football or even water polo should be played with the same respect to its' past participants as current ones. Any differently and there should be a new record book started with the asterisk in the title. It's not apples to apples anymore.
 

Gold Member
Username: Naledge503

Portland, OR USA

Post Number: 4279
Registered: Jun-06
Good thing you brought up the "shortening the track" statement because many of todays fields are very much shorter than they use to be thus more HRs. The league and owners wanted/needed the HRs because it's one of the main attractions to baseball and baseballs popularity was fading fast.

There really isn't anything the same about baseball today as it was in the early days, except the rules. The bats are better, the balls are better, the players are better, and the parks are increasingly more hitter friendly. Maybe they do need 2 different record books and hall of fames....but how reasonable is that?
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4115
Registered: Oct-06
Of course you can't take away stats. It's just not possible. All the home runs, all the strikeouts, whether they were achieved fairly or not, happened. Mark McGwire admitted to using roids in 98' when he broke the single season home run record. Every home run he hit involved numerous other stats. Runs scored for guys on base, hits/runs given up by the pitcher, not to mention affecting the actual score of the game. And on top of that we only know about a fraction of the cases where guys used PEDs. There's just no way to fairly adjust the stats.


IMO, offenders who we know used PEDs, either by undeniable proof or common sense (if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck), are already being punished. They are, and will continue to be punished in the court of public opinion. Their legacies will always be tarnished. When people talk about Babe Ruth they talk about him with the utmost respect and admiration, as a true sports hero. When people talk about Barry Bonds 20 years from now, they won't talk about him that way.

Not only will some of them not go down as heroes, but in fact, cautionary tales, that is their punishment.


quote:

Juicing is not going to make you see the ball and turn on it any differently. People who have not played baseball do not understand how difficult it is to hit just a regular fastball. Juicing is also not going to make a pitcher throw their curveball or anything any better.




Jesse, I adamantly disagree with you on this. If you don't think steroids, and HGH to an even greater extent, can effect every aspect of an athlete's performance, I think you're sorely mistaken. Hand-eye coordination is something you've either got, or you don't. MILLIONS of people, not only a select few, are born with brilliant hand-eye coordination. Some of them use it to excel at swinging a bat, some of them to stroke a paintbrush, some of them to push the keys on a piano, they're all gifted.

I have excellent hand-eye coordination. If you put me up against Mark McGwire in a game of billiards or golf or something like that, I bet we'd be pretty competitive. The idea that Mark McGwire was born with some incredible, and specific talent to hit a baseball with a bat, is silly. The difference between his and my baseball ability, is the result of genetic gifts (size, strength etc.), and of course hard work, practice and dedication etc. Roids and HGH will make a huge difference in an athletes ability to train intensely and healthily for a sport like baseball, giving Mark McGwire a TREMENDOUS edge on natural baseball players.
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4116
Registered: Oct-06

quote:

There really isn't anything the same about baseball today as it was in the early days, except the rules. The bats are better, the balls are better, the players are better, and the parks are increasingly more hitter friendly. Maybe they do need 2 different record books and hall of fames....but how reasonable is that?




Keep in mind the pitchers and fielders also fall into that category. So the guys working AGAINST the hitters are also bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 21819
Registered: Jun-06
Unreasonable maybe. But how true of a statement would it be to still say "best of all time"? Like you said there were different times and different criteria but the only constant denominator was that ALL players had the same balls, bats and parks to play with.

And just like baseball being the national pastime, to keep it in the same spirit under which it was created should be paramount. If it isn't broke..............

Besides, if it were allowed to continue the players would be replaced eventually by robots in the future who don't command 100 million $$ contracts. Once you start taking the purity out of something there's no turning back. Soon it will make its' way down to little league. Tough to imagine? Well there was a time when $2 got you a ticket and $1 got peanuts/popcorn.

Shoot, today it costs $20 just to park!
 

Gold Member
Username: Naledge503

Portland, OR USA

Post Number: 4280
Registered: Jun-06
Whats kinda sad in McGwires situation is that he always was a good HR hitter, going all the way back to college. His second year in MLB he hit 49 HR's and he was a string bean. He was pretty consistent throughout his career with his HR yearly avg with the exception of 2 years when he hit 70 and 65. The league also needs to take some responsibility because there is just no way that they didn't know that some of their best hitters were juicing. Will it happen? No. They just didn't care because it was filling seats.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 21824
Registered: Jun-06
^^^True. It was also changing the game as everyone remembered it.



Bottom line is business changes EVERYTHING!


Once someone's pocket gets lined all bets are off. Just like politics/corruption.

We don't live in a world anymore where our kids play baseball in sandlots or football in parking lots for fun anymore.

It's all about how much $$ you can make doing it.


I still remember chalking the streets as a youth, in five yard increments, playing till dark in between cars driving through, waiting till it was time for supper.


No million $$ contract for me.


Yet $$$ wasn't what I pulled from the experience was it?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10603
Registered: Aug-05
nope. you pulled memory's made from the legends and playing in the spirit of the american tradition. :-)
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nyyfan13

Northern VA

Post Number: 11771
Registered: Jul-06
No matter how you look at it, it's part of the game now. It will continue to be as well. Yes, they have testing for it but there are still supplements which are undetectable. It's a never ending cycle, there will always be chemically made supplements which will better the performance of the user which are undetectable. It's sad but its part of baseball now. Not just baseball but all sports. No sport is safe from it. But you know it's sad. You look at players who haven't tested positive for steroids in their career but have played at a high level and hit tons of homeruns and were huge threats at the plate, are really getting the raw end of the deal. These players like Ken Griffey Jr (who in my opinion might be the greatest homerun hitter of all time) or Jim Thome are just being lumped into the "steroid era" unfairly. These players who have used steroids aren't just killing their reputation but are killing the reputation of everyone who has played in the past 20 years. It's sad to see so many good players have their reputation killed because of what a lot of players are doing.

PS, I hate Jose Canseco.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 21836
Registered: Jun-06
Also, home run hitting isn't ALWAYS about strength. Like Yanks pointed out about Ken Griffey Jr. Especially during the home run derbys.

I LOVED watching him hit. He had grace and style when he swung.


And I'm not a baseball nut.



Same can be said about Michael Jordan. He isn't the tallest or biggest, but he had that MOJO didn't he?
 

Gold Member
Username: The_image_dynamic

San Diego, California

Post Number: 5529
Registered: Dec-06
Great posts and I agree with almost everything above.

I just wanted to mention something I often think about when I think of steroids. Back in the day there were always a few freak-type guys that could mash a baseball without any supplements at all. Like Mickey Mantle. Talk about a beast. One day Mick hit a ball off of the front of the upper deck in right at Yankee stadium. The most common calculations say the ball was 102 feet off the ground when it hit the facade on the front of the upper deck at 372 feet from home plate. Some people estimate that the ball would have gone around 650 feet if it didn't hit anything. Mick was like a big bear.

I have been going to baseball games all over the country since I was around 16, and still to this day I have never seen anyone hit a ball harder, consistently, then Jack Clark. He could literally rip the cover off a ball. Back then, hardly anyone did steroids, but there are still rumors that Clark may have done something. But then again, they say that about almost all the big home run hitters.

As far as the all-time HR list goes... the asterisks as shown in that link suits me perfectly fine. Everyone knows Hank will always be the king.
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9522
Registered: Jul-06
Yanks pretty much said it best. Steroids or performance enhancing drugs are and always will be a part of just about every sport. The people that don't believe that can do the research themselves. Many champions were made with steroids, what a shame.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23591
Registered: Oct-05
i like how mark mc gwire is trying to play it off as it was for health issues and that's all. lol what a d-bag. some players have told reporters that mark told them about the drug and should try it.

i also LOL'd at the statement about how the drugs don't help you hit the ball. LULZ.
 

Gold Member
Username: Naledge503

Portland, OR USA

Post Number: 4284
Registered: Jun-06
Pit, you may have great hand, eye coordination but I will guarantee you that you will not barely even make contact with a major league fast ball. Billiards and golf are not baseball. I played ball from the age of 6 to the age of 17 with lots of practice and I consider myself to be naturally athletic and have great hand, eye coordination. It is even difficult for me. Go to your local batting cage and give it a shot, I think you will be surprised at how bad you do. :-)

Chad, have you ever played a sport in your life? lol. I challenge anyone who thinks they can go hit a major league fastball to just go to a batting cage and try. We can sit here and argue about performance enhancing drugs and if it will make you actually make contact all we want. The fact is, it is just not as easy as it seems. I have a feeling that 99% of you will have a hard time just making contact with a 70-80 mph pitch. lol. Even I would have a hard time, and I played for 11 years.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23592
Registered: Oct-05
i think you misunderstood my LULZ. i know its hard to hit. i go to batting cages once in awhile and the 60mph balls are hard to hit lol. i know you have to have skills to make contact with the ball. no drug is going to help you make contact. i am laughing at the fact that mark is saying that to let people know that his home runs are legit and not enhanced by the drugs. we all know distance of the ball comes from power and his power came from the roids.

i just don't like how he came out "clean" and confessed everything and yet it still leaves a bad taste in the mouth. i wish he just came out and said i used it and i am sorry and just go about his business.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 21839
Registered: Jun-06
My son is very sensitive. He plays baseball and HATES to strike out, or even get thrown out. He feels he HAS to get a hit every at bat or he's a failure. He's very hard on himself. I try to explain to him that even the best players in MLB of all time fail 7 out of every 10 at bats. We sit and watch and I point it out. When someone strikes out I tell him to watch the players reaction. They are disappointed but they can't let it affect their game. He's 9. He doesn't understand quite yet lol. Also he's on kid pitch now and anyone who played little league knows that's such a different animal than coach pitch.

Not that I have a point but my son needs ppl to look up to who can show by example in the sport he loves to play, on and off the field. A--holes like Dennis Rodman who claim NOT to be a role model need to step down because guess what, you are one.

Put the pen down TO, keep the shananigans to yourself Chad "Ocho cinco", close the puppy farm Mr. Vick and by all means play the game as you watched it played years before. If you have a REAL talent and not one that comes with an injection you might just earn a respected spot in eternity. Asterisk free.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 21840
Registered: Jun-06
Oh, and not to completely beat a dead horse but Pit is right about not taking the stats because of the complexity/possibility of doing so. You simply can't ask the chick to get back in the shell. Yet at the same time players' precious stats are what team owners/coaches use in contract negotiations. It's WHY they make 100 million $$$. So by that angle it's a business decision, not a moral one to juice. And that my friends is the end of our pastime as it was born. It's not fun anymore, it's a resume.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23593
Registered: Oct-05
also jesse now that i re-read your statement, are you calling me out? cause i detect some sarcasm in your post.

yes i have played sports in my life.
 

Gold Member
Username: Naledge503

Portland, OR USA

Post Number: 4285
Registered: Jun-06
No Chad, I wasn't calling you out. I addressed you because I thought you were addressing me with your comment. I said the same thing in my initial post. Sorry for that....lost in translation. :-) That was just some good ol' fashioned buddy ribbing, you know, like old times. :-) sorry if you took it offensive.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23595
Registered: Oct-05
oh lol its cool. i mis understood too. lol.

group hug.

oh after reading mine over i can understand how you would think i was addressing you lol. no i was just simply talking about the interview with mark mcgwire. he said the drugs didn't help him make contact with the ball.
 

Gold Member
Username: Naledge503

Portland, OR USA

Post Number: 4286
Registered: Jun-06
BTW, the only reason I said 99% of you couldn't hit a fastball is because there is always room for error and there is bradisagodfreakingwarren.
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4124
Registered: Oct-06
wtf^^.... mods please.


Anyways... Jesse, let me clarify my point. I wasn't trying to argue that hitting major league home runs isn't difficult. It is. My point is, taking PEDs can absolutely, without question, help you hit home runs. Keeping you healthy and on the field, fueling your workouts, making you bigger and stronger, increasing your bat speed and power. I don't think Mark McGwire was any more talented than dozens of home run hitters who finished with a couple hundred fewer on their career. The difference was the PEDs. They might not help you see the ball, but they can absolutely help you hit home runs, and improve your athletic performance in a number of different ways.

Furthermore, the guy is an absolute disgrace to me. He hasn't come clean at all in my eyes. He's all over television trying to paint himself as some sort of victim of the times, saying he didn't do it to cheat and that he only did it to stay healthy so he could do his job, like it was some sort of noble cause. The guy is a cheater flat out, and he won't just fess up to it. And he keeps reiterating how "steroids don't help you see the ball", trying to validate his achievements as if the roids didn't make a difference. The guy cheated, and he continues to make every excuse.

I'm glad Goose Gossage had the balls to come out and call it for what it is, basically saying he's a cheater and he's full of s@#$. Goose is the man.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10622
Registered: Aug-05

quote:

The people that don't believe that can do the research themselves. Many champions were made with steroids, what a shame.




Rob's right, it really sucks when you think about it. The information is out there, you just have to go looking for it. I watched a documentary called Bigger,Stronger, Faster( i think thats the right order) about steroids and how they are used in sports, pro wrestling, and pro bodybuilding on a regular basis with no fore-thought. its crazy that in these industries, you aren't on a level playing field unless you are taking these performance enhancing drugs.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10623
Registered: Aug-05
people relate steroids simply to muscle building, which isn't the case. they have steroids for nearly everything. you can take a steroid to stay more alert, you can take a steroid to reduce inflammation. you can take other PED's that aren't steroids to achieve some of these things as well. Simply saying that someone needed the raw power to do these things isn't covering it. But, i agree, that with the right amount of initial talent, proper training, and any kind of PED, your numbers and performance can skyrocket to an absurd level above that of clean players.


the thing that seems to sting people the most is that it feels like the sport itself, the legitimacy of your beliefs in heroes and legends and everything that makes you love the game...is tainted and untrue because people are now admitting that they did it under the influence. and that f*ckin sucks....
 

Gold Member
Username: Naledge503

Portland, OR USA

Post Number: 4291
Registered: Jun-06
The players, league, media and fans are ALL to blame. We all knew when McGwire was hitting those HR's and about to break Roger Maris' single season record that he was by no means the same player, we just didn't care. We all gathered around the tube with our soda and popcorn and watched, now we are all so quick to criticize. I say "we" as in the media, fans, players, and league...everyone. There is a part of me that does criticize and despise these actions in a moral sense. It's all a shame, really.
 

Gold Member
Username: Naledge503

Portland, OR USA

Post Number: 4292
Registered: Jun-06
"the thing that seems to sting people the most is that it feels like the sport itself, the legitimacy of your beliefs in heroes and legends and everything that makes you love the game...is tainted and untrue because people are now admitting that they did it under the influence. and that f*ckin sucks...."


This.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 21844
Registered: Jun-06
Well when you consider the salaries and purses the "athletes" are making/winning today it's no wonder they want an edge to achieve it.


Not related but have you ever applied for a job where you KNOW 75% of the employees are pot heads but YOU have to get tested? No pot isn't a PED lol but it sucks to know so many are still doing it, and getting away with it.


I used to work for a component manufacturer where they actually had an internal battle over random drug testing. They battled because not only did some of the execs fear the ax but facing having to find, hire and train everyone's replacement in the shop who would also fail. We're talking 60% were smokers.

In the end the ONLY times you were tested were during pre-employment or during an accident investigation. (Insurance reasons). Those in country long enough knew when to keep their mouths shut if they ever shot themselves with a nail gun.



Now, how can we compare that situation to MLB?
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4127
Registered: Oct-06

quote:

No pot isn't a PED




Tell that to Joey Chestnut and Kobayashi!!!!
 

Diamond Member
Username: Wingmanalive

Www.stainles... .ecrater.com

Post Number: 21849
Registered: Jun-06







I love sparring with you guys I really do.
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9528
Registered: Jul-06
It really sucks, back when I was into body building I hadn't realized that everyone was on the juice. It completely turned me off from it, I shrank to a "natural" size and learned a lot. Even the "natural" guys are juiced up BUT all they have to do is get tested and if it's out of their system they're considered naturals, it's pretty pathetic. It's pretty funny when you ask the juicers about what it takes to get to where they're at and they have no clue except "lift weights, protein" and don't know the first thing about nutrition or the human body.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23601
Registered: Oct-05
what are the bad affects of juicing? i know you can't do it as a pro athelete but how about for me? i was thinking about it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9530
Registered: Jul-06
Lol Chad. There are many reasons you shouldn't get on the juice. Besides, you don't know what your body can do naturally anyways.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23602
Registered: Oct-05
so what is a safe and effective dosage rob?
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23603
Registered: Oct-05
i i would take pills. no needles for me.
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9531
Registered: Jul-06
I'd probably go with a Chris Benoit dose of roids! The needle is the best, especially when you can't walk for a bit because of the shot in the azz but we know how much you get those from your homies over there in Cali haha.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23604
Registered: Oct-05
ok you made your point rob lol.

what about nitro-tech or cell-tech?
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9532
Registered: Jul-06
Nitro-tech and cell-tech both work BUT are extremely over-priced for their effectiveness. The gains from cell-tech are a huge joke as you'll pack on 10 pounds of water weight from the glycogen and water retention. You're better off getting the most basic and cheapest creatine and the cheapest whey possible. Supplements aren't the answer to a poor diet and training program though. You can get the best effects by using whole food alone. Supplements are just a huge rip, people that think they need them are just tricking themselves into wasting money.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10655
Registered: Aug-05
i dont agree with that about protein powder. there are very few things that can deliver the amount of protein without the calories and fat as protein powder. other than that tho, i agree with you. most of the other nutritional supplements are not necessary with the proper diet of course.
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9548
Registered: Jul-06

quote:

i dont agree with that about protein powder. there are very few things that can deliver the amount of protein without the calories and fat as protein powder. other than that tho, i agree with you. most of the other nutritional supplements are not necessary with the proper diet of course.




You don't have a clue as to what you're talking about =/

1.)Chicken
3.)Lean Beef
4.)Pork
5.)Fish
6.)Egg Whites
7.)Eggs
8.)Skim Milk/Milk
9.)Lean Meats(Buffalo, Deer,Bear, etc...)
10.)Cheese

And it goes on. Not that Chad is there yet but when people have to dive into the low calorie diets drinking your calories is a horrible idea. Dropping below and SUSTAINING sub 10% body fat is one hell of a game on whey protein, whole foods work wonders. If you must have whey just buy whatever is cheapest, I get ON or Dymatize for about $25 shipped per 5 pound container.
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9549
Registered: Jul-06
Here Chad, if you get bored....

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=119329401

You go out to eat a lot though so I know you're not TOO serious and you're probably 40% body fat right now =/
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10658
Registered: Aug-05
40% is really really high, i don't think chad is that high.

also, 1 scoop of protein powder on avg with water is 130 cal with 1 g of fat and 25g of protein. what food matches that with a 33g serving???

140g of chicken (1 cup) has 240 cals 5 g of fat and 43g of protein. if you measured chicken and protein powder (ON for example) gram for gram, chicken doesnt come close.

and my post wasnt in relation to low calorie diets, just in consuming protein in regards to it being a supplement.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10659
Registered: Aug-05
and Dymatize tastes horrible. lol

ON isnt bad tho. :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4144
Registered: Oct-06

quote:

You don't have a clue as to what you're talking about =/





Hmm. I'd say he has a very good idea of what he's talking about. Rob you're talking about a very specific plan, to achieve very specific goals. All Muddy said was that Whey is a good supplement, and he's absolutely correct. There's no scam there, it's just quality protein (depending on brand I suppose). IMHO multivitamins and fish oil are beneficial too, however depending on who you ask or what studies you look at, you'll get a wide spectrum of opinions on those.

No one's arguing against whole foods. Having a diet of mainly whole foods is probably the single best thing you can do for your health. Far more important than any gimmicky diet, supplements, workout programs, or equipment. And I hope your list was just a list of protein sources and not an entire diet. Fruits, veggies, and whole grains ftmfgdw.
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9550
Registered: Jul-06
I was saying he doesn't have a clue as far as foods go that can match whey protein gram for gram in protein and are better. Chicken breasts dominate it, turkey can dominate and so can lean pork. These can be pure protein sources very easily. Chicken breasts come with nutrition facts listed at 4ounces per serving raw(3 ounces cooked) and contain 2.5 grams of fat per serving(this can be cut off usually) which leaves you with a pure source of protein, same for other meats. Whey protein has fat and carbs as well, without them they'd be even nastier, depending on your diet and goals you don't need the 3-6 grams of carbs in whey. I didn't mean to say whey wasn't a good supplement but lean meat can beat it out every single time. By the way Muddy, your math going gram for gram is just silly, whole foods contain water which throws all of that off, having less food in your stomach isn't a great idea either, whey doesn't do much to curb hunger(it simply digests too fast) when you're cutting, many people will advise against it actually. Eggs are one of the cheapest protein sources BTW guys.

Oh and Chad is definitely around 40% body fat.
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4148
Registered: Oct-06

quote:

I get ON or Dymatize for about $25 shipped per 5 pound container.




Where?
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9552
Registered: Jul-06
Fitrx.com :-) I have like 15 pounds of the stuff, I get waaay too hungry to consume shakes with my current goals. I'll see if it's on sale right now. Send me a message on AIM if you're not too lazy to get on and I'll link you to a good site.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10662
Registered: Aug-05
for the average joe, there is absolutely no reason to discourage them from buying protein powder. i take it on a regular basis and encounter no problems. i don't eat as healthy as you do (i avoid fried foods completely, avoid anything but water and FF milk, and i eat no sweets) but i was cornfed growing up and i finish my rice peas and chicken every day, or whatever else i get to grub on as long as it isnt fried. i am not competing or trying to "cut weight" for i.e. wrestling, and neither is 99% of the people on this forum, so there is no need to go into that much detail about said things.

that would be like going to a bodybuilding forum and telling the guy who mentioned he bought a Alpine Subwoofer that he got ripped off and should have bought Fi or AQ for cheaper and a better product. that person might not be overly concerned with every little detail, so there is no need to try and belittle others for the sake of proving your own knowledge. we are all here to share, man, so be encouraging instead of argumentative. :-)
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10663
Registered: Aug-05

quote:

IMHO multivitamins and fish oil are beneficial too, however depending on who you ask or what studies you look at, you'll get a wide spectrum of opinions on those.




i take a multivitamin and several oil supplements as well as a joint supplement daily, and have experienced real results with them. these products aren't gimmicks, and for some people, they can actually help you a lot, maybe even save your life. :-)
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23606
Registered: Oct-05
hey rob i go out to eat once every 2 weeks. lol. but even then i don't gorge myself.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10664
Registered: Aug-05
rob, how tall are you and how much do you weigh?
bench?
squat?
deadlift?

what you are trying to accomplish might be totally different from what someone else might be trying to accomplish as far as physique is concerned. you might be worried about having a 6-pack and being as cut and lean as possible, while someone else might need to have some heft on them for football as a linemen or someone else might need to bulk up to build muscle or perhaps powerlift for competitions. everybody's different.


 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9553
Registered: Jul-06
Chad asked specifically about NITRO-TECH and CELL-TECH so that's where this all stemmed from. Both of those products are way over priced and a huge rip. Chad is trying to accomplish the same thing I am, cutting body fat. If I can make it any easier for him I will, I'm not sure how much experience you have with cutting but the longer you cut the more difficult it becomes, the leaner you become the more difficult it becomes. There are methods that are FAR better than others so I'm just posting the information that Chad AND a couple of others on this forum will see and be able to utilize.

Right now I weigh probably 147 pounds(sub 10% body fat)
Bench-not sure at the moment, I don't have an olympic sized bench and weight set here but at 150 without injury I put up 295, I would have broken the 300 pound mark easily but I nearly cut off my finger and that was a major setback.

Squats were 300lbs for sets of 8(Maxed out my plates) at 150lbs
Deads(most I did was 315 for sets of 10 at the gym at like 165pounds)deads suck and b loody calluses are no fun.

Multivitamins definitely have their place though and it's not like they cost a ridiculous amount. I'm mainly against all the over priced BS they try to market to people. Whey is great but whole foods are definitely better for anyone on a cut and that would be Chad and I and some others that can mention themselves if they feel the need.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Insearchofbass

York, Pennsylvania

Post Number: 13068
Registered: Jun-04
I definitely agree if your on a cut like I am and Chad is whole foods are the best option. Whey protein has its place but for a cut its all about eating well and feeling satisfied. Besides with quality protein from whole foods your still getting the amino acids you would in whey not to mention in some cases more nutrients. I take a multi vitamin and I firmly believe they help as well as fish oil and flaxseed 3 of each a day but I also make sure I get digestive enzymes which is included in my vitamin formula it all works systematically.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10671
Registered: Aug-05
yeah like i said, multivitamins are a must have unless you know exactly how to get 100% of the vitamins you need every day from your diet.

I take Fish, Flaxseed, and Krill oil everyday along with a Multivitamin, a joint supplement, and acai berry extract to get some extra antioxidants.

i have only been working out regularly for about 9 months, and once i learned how to do them properly, i have loved doing them. you should invest in some wrist straps when you go heavy on deads, Rob, it makes life much easier.
and deads don't suck, they are amazing.
they give you what my friend likes to call "brick sh1thouse back"
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4159
Registered: Oct-06
Muddy, to many serious lifters, if you lifted it using straps, you didn't really lift it, heh. I've never really had an issue with my hands cracking open, but my shins get fucked (i love that we can say that on ecoustics) up pretty hard. I wear knee high socks, plus sweatpants when DL'ing. That double layer is the only way I can keep good form and not have blo0dy (lol we can say fucked but not blo0dy) shins.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23608
Registered: Oct-05
even when i do go out to eat, i try to watch the calories.

rob is referring to me posting up korean bbq stuff on facebook. lol. yes i do go eat all you can eat korean bbq places but the meats i eat there are the none marinated ones. they are thin sliced brisckets. they have a lot of protein. i also make sure i eat a lot of vegetables when i am there. i don't eat rice or bread with the meat and i certainly don't eat anything that may have a lot of calories.

****for those that have never been to a all you can eat korean bbq, its where they bring the raw meat to your table and you cook it on the grill that is on the table.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23609
Registered: Oct-05
as i was saying to rob, i am really serious about becoming healthy. when i started, my weight was 322 lbs. that was back in august of last year. i weighed myself sunday and now i weigh 272lbs. my work out intesity has increased a lot and i am definately feeling it in my daily life.

i don't have a set goal on how much i want to weigh. my goal is to become as fit as possible. so i guess you can say my goal is to work out for the rest of my life.:-)
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10673
Registered: Aug-05
there comes a time when the amount your back can hold surpasses the amount your forarms can hold. ask any of the bodybuilders or powerlifters. almost all records set with deadlift, bench, squat are using things to aid your body's weak points. those people who say those things are just being azzholes and trying to nitpick so you don't look like your getting stronger. i f*ckin hate those d-bags that say sh1t like that, that would be like me saying you didnt squat bc when you go down you go to parallel and i go azz to grass, or that your max on bench wasn't legit bc you used wrist wraps to keep your forearms in line with the bar for better pushing power. lol see what i mean? now i can understand if you are using them to do dumbbell curls with 45's. lol or using them on the low row machine to do sets of 180, but wtf.

Or when mike miller squatted 1220lbs. for the world record, he really didnt get it bc he used a weight belt and knee wraps. both of which REALLY stiffen up the bottom of your squat and give you tons from which to push from.
when you max on DL, i suggest straps, so you can focus more on the lift and less on holding it. i only use straps on DL when i go above 350., or when i max. also, on rack pulls when you are pulling 600lbs of the rack, you will need straps too theres no way to increase the weight that much for that lockout exercise and not use something to compensate for your forearms.
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9556
Registered: Jul-06
Pit, I agree, the shin scrapes are definitely not fun haha, that's why I don't like deads so much and putting all plates on, bah, I'm lazy!

Chad, you're doing wonders for yourself man and I'm proud of ya, just keep at it for life as you said you planned.

Muddy, don't continue that form with deads because if you do you'll probably end up damaging or injuring your joints or knees. There's a reason for going to parallel and not beneath. As far as compensation for your forearms goes...we all know what you do about that :-)

FUCKED
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10674
Registered: Aug-05
the fact is, working out is like philosophy, there are a BAZILLION different opinions and ways to argue about it.

but the most important things is, that we are all focusing on keeping our bodies strong and healthy, so that we can live longer, more fulfilling lives. the way we go about it in the gym, as long as everybody has good form and is being safe, really doesn't matter, as long as your in there, putting forth the most effort possible at everything you do, you will see results, and feel better.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10675
Registered: Aug-05
Rob, i definitely try not to go below parallel on squats(i know thats what you meant :-)), i was just using that for my example's sake. going that low compromises the base of your back if it rounds and kills your knees like when you go below parallel on military press for your shoulders, and i am a stickler for form. lol

FUCKED
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10681
Registered: Aug-05

quote:

As far as compensation for your forearms goes...we all know what you do about that. :-)




HAHAHA!!! didnt see that until now.
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4161
Registered: Oct-06

quote:

when i started, my weight was 322 lbs. that was back in august of last year. i weighed myself sunday and now i weigh 272lbs.




Chad, you are the f@#$ing man right there. Seriously, that is amazing. The fact that you've lost FIFTY POUNDS (think about that guys), is nothing short of incredible. You can achieve whatever health/fitness goals you want if you keep the same determination that you used to get this far. You really should check out bodybuilding.com if you haven't already. It's a great resource for information, and not just for bodybuilders. They have sections on nutrition and losing fat that would be very helpful. Awesome progress, and keep it up!!!



quote:

working out is like philosophy, there are a BAZILLION different opinions and ways to argue about it.




Truth. For example, I'm a believer that going below parallel when squatting is not detrimental at all, assuming your form is correct. The rounding of the lower back being of course the primary concern. "Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training" by Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore is my form bible. IMO it is the foremost text on ideal form for the big 5; squats, deads, bench, cleans, and overhead press, as well as other lifts.
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9557
Registered: Jul-06
Yea Muddy, I did mean squats haha. The other issue with going below form is that it isn't tooo bad. Most of the guys with the bad knees are from a combination of that and...TOO MUCH WEIGHT. I mean sure we do get stronger but your joints and bones aren't meant for supporting ridiculous numbers, at least I know my chicken bones aren't =/

Pit, Chad is already a member on BB.com but I don't think he visits there too much.
 

Diamond Member
Username: Bestmankind

Post Number: 23610
Registered: Oct-05
i am there reading most of the times. i read a lot of threads and posts on the losing fat section. i like that forum a lot. full of info. also rob is an azz on there too. lol.

thanks for the props pit and rob.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10682
Registered: Aug-05
I go below paralell with light weight -205. Any heavier and I stick to paralell.
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4162
Registered: Oct-06
Here's my belief system, based on Rippetoe's teachings. One should squat as low as possible while maintaining a rigid spine. How low that is, depends on a couple things. One, the individual's level of flexibility, which is an undervalued aspect of fitness, and should be worked on for those who lack good flexibility. Two, the individual's body type, the human body varies dramatically in terms of the proportions of leg length to torso length.

I believe, but I can't quote him at the moment, that Ripp actually goes into great anatomical detail about why it's important to go as low as one can while maintaining a rigid spine. The reason is because of something called the stretch reflex. The use of the stretch reflex is exactly what prevents the joints from having to undertake full pressure.

Contrary to logical assumption, this is exactly why when you're squatting very heavy, it's MOST crucial to squat as low as possible while maintaining a rigid spine, and utilize the stretch reflex to prevent serious joint pressure. When squatting with relatively light or easy weight, one can worry less about pressure on the joints, and train quarters squats, parallel squats, jump squats or whatever depending on what muscle groups they're trying to target or what they're training for.


Again, I'm sure their are knowledgeable guys who might disagree, and ultimately you gotta study and decide what YOU think is right. IMO Ripp is truly the master. The book I referenced could not be more detailed, and is backed with both science, and decades of coaching experience. Lotta "bro-science" out there. Be safe :-)
 

Platinum Member
Username: Basshead86

Steady as she goes...

Post Number: 10683
Registered: Aug-05
you know it:-)

*kisses*
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4163
Registered: Oct-06
Back to the original topic. Carlton Fisk pretty much handed McGwire his azz in the Chicago Tribune today. Good article.

0,1301492.story,http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-spt-0120-mitchell-fisk-m cgwire--20100119,0,1301492.story
 

Gold Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

I compensate...

Post Number: 9560
Registered: Jul-06
Dead link is dead.






FUCKED
 

Gold Member
Username: Pitbullguy

The Chicago area

Post Number: 4164
Registered: Oct-06
fucked.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-spt-0120-mitchell-fisk-mcgwire--20100119 ,0,1301492.story
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