Digital coaxial cable same as audio cable?

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Archive through April 14, 2005broken back1002005-04-14 05:31
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Silver Member
Username: Arnold_layne

MadridSpain

Post Number: 366
Registered: Jun-04
In case drop-outs persist with the new cable: there are a few discs with a naughty little copy protection that can cause this. Example: Van Morrison - What's wrong with this picture".

Cheers
AL
 

broken back
Unregistered guest
howdy again...thanks for the advice. i made my own digi jumper with standard RG6 and F-to-RCA screw-on connectors. unfortunately still having random audio drop-outs. maybe you folks could give some recommendations if i spell out the details:

what i have: Technics 5.1 audio receiver / Phillips DVD-Player/Recorder / Hughes DirecTivo. the DirecTivo is connected via optical & have never had an audio problem with it. the DVD-R is connected via my handmade digi coax jumper.

i used to have a Pioneer DVD player connected via optical. very very rarely i would have random audio drop-outs listening to an audio cd. never had trouble with DVDs. now i've 'upgraded' to this Philips dvd-r which has no optical out, only coax out for digi audio. now i cant listen to an entire audio disc without some random audio drop-out(s). makes me suspect that there's some fault with the Technics receiver. Opinions? haven't yet tried to reproduce the audio drop-outs via stereo analog. may have to settle for analog though if these digi drop-outs persist on audio discs.

facts: the audio drop-outs are definitely random. volume doesnt seem to matter...low or high volume...still drop-outs. no drop-outs during dvd playback...only audio cd playback. have noticed occasional high-frequency static pops while listening to audio cds.

well...i'm stumped. opinions? would love to know what you all make of this.

cheers
 

New member
Username: Scotthall

BC Canada

Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-05
WOW. This is an amazing web site. I thought I knew a lot about electronics but I will bow down to most of you "Geniuses". Ignore the comments made by people saying that you are "ego maniacs" or "loser" which was made by an uknown person aka LOSER. But, you have helped many people out including myslef. So keep up the posting.

My question is. RCA plus or Coaxial Plugs have many types of metal plateing such as SILVER, BRONZE, GOLD. Is there a big differnece between the plateings and I'm guessing GOLD is the best one unless I'm wrong.
 

New member
Username: Scotthall

BC Canada

Post Number: 2
Registered: Apr-05
Oh crap I forgot to ask.

Does 1 RCA plug from the DVD Player's COAXIAL DIGITAL AUDIO OUT to the Reciever's COAXIAL DIGITAL AUDIO IN work the same or better than using all 6 RCA Plugs including the SUBWOOFER OUT into the Reciever? And if so how does that work. Wouldn't 6 be better than 1. And also why would they make the 6 RCA plugs for on the back of DVD Players or Recievers? Why not just have the COXIAL DIGITAL AUDIO?

Thanks You
 

Silver Member
Username: Arnold_layne

MadridSpain

Post Number: 370
Registered: Jun-04
Gold is the best to avoiding corrosion on plugs. But perhaps even more important is the fit, regardless material.

The 5.1 analogue interconnect is used in two cases:

1. Hi-rez audio (SACD or DVD-A), which is not handled by coaxial (S/PDIF) transfer protocol.

2. DVD player's chips (DSP and DACs) are wastly superior, and you wish to bypass receiver's signal processing.

Cheers
AL
 

rpease
Unregistered guest
I just ran a coax cable from my PC's digital out on my soundblaster audigy sound card to the digital audio in on my Onkyo DR-C500. Sound from PC is fantastic through DR-C500, but now when I switch my audio source back to TV I get a hum and must disconnect the PC connection in order to play TV audio through the DR-C500. TV is connected via component audio cabes to analog audio in jacks. Any Suggestions???
 

broken back
Unregistered guest
howdy again. just an update here...maybe this will help some folks out....

i was having random audio drop outs after connecting a dvd player to my audio receiver via digi coax. turns out that my receiver can only properly handle a 44.1 kHz digital audio signal. fortunately the dvd player has an option to change it's digi audio output from 96 kHz down to 48 kHz. i guess that, technically, my receiver cant handle this signal either...but now the audio is error free. best of all...i didnt just give up & settle for analog sound. guess i could handle an upgraded receiver.
 

Matthew J.
Unregistered guest
In response to Eric Ramsey's Post, it is NOT true that digital coaxial cables are solid wire while "normal" RCA are stranded. Take a look at the picture of "digital" Monster Cable at the following link:

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=37500&I=119IDLHM

It is clearly stranded. Personally, I think Monster Cable is a waste of money. My personal experience, however, has been that "digital" coaxial cable does seem to work better for 5.1 audio than "normal" RCA cables. My guess, though, is that this is because the "digital" cables are just higher quality versions of "normal" cables.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 116
Registered: Feb-05
Matthew, Most digital coaxial cable use a solid conductor. You are right about the Monster though they use a standed conductor. I don't know Monster's reasoning for this. But most digital signals today that are not sent through fiber optic cable are sent through a cable with a solid center conductor which is the best design for digital transmissions according to enginerring experts. E.Ramsey
 

Terry B.
Unregistered guest
On the back of my DVD player I have a "Coaxial Digital Audio" connection.Can I plug the transmitter for my wireless headphones into it?
 

Unregistered guest
I have a DELL sound card that claims to have an SPDIF output. Is this the same as coaxial digital output? There is only one output on the DELL sound card (how would stereo work with a single RCA cable?). My computer is about 20 feet from my stereo and I want to run a cable. It looks like there is a red laser in the SPDIF output. Is it really a TSOLInk? The DELL website and documentation are useless for figuring this out. Has anyone made this kind of connection?
 

BenW
Unregistered guest
I have just purchased a Philips HDD120 mp3 player which claims to accept input from both optical and coaxial connections but on the unit itself it has only one input jack labelled optical line in. Tested this with an optical-out source and it works a treat. Before I blow it accidentally, can I put a 3.5mm coaxial into the same socket?

Manual is hopeless in describing what sort of leads I can use with it!

Thanks in advance..
 

broken back
Unregistered guest
wow...that's a funky jack on yr Philips HDD120. the manual says its a combo jack...optical & 3.5mm analog stereo in. looks like the 3.5mm really should be inserted in the same port as the optical...be gentle.
 

Jason S
Unregistered guest
I bought a lower-end DVD player about a year ago. The rear panel has a digital coaxial output and the standard left/right RCA outputs. Does the digital coax output provide 5.1 digital surround through that single connection to a receiver? Or do I need to buy a new DVD player with the 6 surround sound outputs on the back?
 

Gedfaz
Unregistered guest
Hi

This is a new take on the whole thing and I'd be very grateful if anybody could give me a yeah or nay.

I have a DVD player with Coax digital output, and old surround amp which is just prologic and is out of the equation pretty much, and a pc with coax digital inputs and outputs. Running a dvd in my pc doesnt seem to give surround through my 5.1 speakers, but running games and tests etc on the soundcard does give me surround. If I hook my external DVD player through the Coaxial Digital in will I then be able to play Dolby digital 5.1 from the external DVD through the PC and out through its 5.1 in surround.

it should be noted that - there is no direct link from the dvd to the surround sub & speakers merely from the sound card... so it would have to go through the PC

You can tell me I'm an idiot now.... I'm not exactly blessed with a great brain!

Cheers
 

Rishijain
Unregistered guest
I have a problem, its kinda stupid, but i haven't found a solution to it yet. I have Logitech THX 5.1 speackers, and i wanted to hook them up to my television, but my television is old, and has only analog rca outs, while my speaker system only has digital inputs, coax and optical. Is there some sort of adapter/converter to fix this for me, and can someone please give me a link please? i think i've seen some for 100 bucks or something, but i think those things do more than i need, and they're way too expensive. Thanks so much all.
 

New member
Username: Angelsblaze

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jul-05
Hi i need a little help if possible.
i have a cctv camera with audio that connects to my tv via a scart connection, i have brought another camera and a quad box problem is i can not connect the cameras to the quad box via scart, any suggestions?
 

Unregistered guest
Different specs, same type of situation.

I recently purchased a professional Numark karoake player. The owners manual requests a "composite RCA cable" for the video output. I used the same RCA cable from the last karaoke player, but my video comes out in black-and-white, so bad that my singers can barely read the words to the songs. I know the cable is good because it worked on my old player. Could this an issue with the unit, or could I be losing signal if the cable is low-capacity? Should I try a higher grade (75+ ohm) cable? I'm not sure what the ohm capacity on the current cable is.
 

SonyCentral
Unregistered guest
You should probably check the type of video .. Can your screen handle both NTSC and PAL? Can it do both.. and have you got composite cables plugged in the wrong holes.. ie red to blue what have you...
 

fredalapa
Unregistered guest
I am a young electronics engineering student.Pls what is the difference between an RF cable and a coaxial cable.
 

D Singh
Unregistered guest
fredalapa - i'm not sure whether there is a difference. A coaxial cable is one in which the dielectric compound (used to increase capacitance by decreasing the net electric field within the capacitor) runs "co-axial" to the wire conducting the signal, i.e. the axis of the dielectric runs parallel to the axis of the copper conductor (as an engineer student you should appreciate this). So, in actuality, pretty much all shielded A/V cables (digital coaxial, RCA, RG-6, NOT fiber optic) are coaxial. So, to answer your question, I think the larger umbrella term is Coaxial and RF is a type of Coaxial cable.
 

D Singh
Unregistered guest
For Rishijain - I personally wouldn't do so. Pretty much all TV channels you get will come in stereo (unless you have digital cable with an HD tuner or satellite with an HD tuner or an HD tuner recieving off-air content). It would be pointless to try to get all 5.1 channels playing a stereo feed. I would use those speakers solely for DVD purposes. If you want to spend big bucks, however, buy a reciever/amplifier. And yes, pretty much all analog to digital converters will be in similar price ranges.
 

New member
Username: Srsstvs

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-05
Here the link to answer all kinds of cable questions and definitions:

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/iseo-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/home/cables.html
 

Anonymous
 
Here's my SOS: I just purchased a Panasonic home theater system. It has Optical input for TV audio, but my cable box only has Coaxial output for Digital audio.

Is there a way for the Coaxial output and Optical input to commune?
 

Karsten
Unregistered guest
Just to clear up the original topic of whether normal rca cables handle the same as coaxial cables... RCA cables use a certain type of "weave" which handles analog signals quite clearly, but when used for "digital transfer", which basically is a load of signal, one gets frequent "skips". In other words, the RCA cables lose the signal, or gaps occur. A simple low cost coaxial cable, yes there is off brands, will solve the issue of audio quality and loss. Conclution: don't try to save a few bucks by substiting a regular RCA analog cable for a coaxial data cable.
As for the CAT5 option, that is really not tested, but I would not recommend splicing a cord and still expecting great audio.
 

larry lurex
Unregistered guest
i posted this in a separate thread:

'hi. i would like to record dvd sound onto my computer.

i have a cheap little dvd player with an optical out. it's a bog standard coax out.

the options for digital out on the dvd player are: dolby digital (pcm), mpeg (bitstream) and dts (bitstream).

the other end is more complicated. i own a multi!wav pro24 soundcard. details can be found here: http://www.midi-classics.com/p10062.htm

i have only ever used the digital toslink. however, there is an s/pdif optical in.

can anyone give me advice if there is any chance of connecting these two ?'

i'm not a beginner and i know the difference between analogue and digital and i know an rca plug when i see one.

i'm just looking for some advice regarding this s/pidf coax plug. i've spent hours looking for such a plug but can't find one.

any advice appreciated.
 

larry lurex
Unregistered guest
this is in addition to the previous post.

i've made some progress identifying the strange plug. here is a picture (it's the one on the left): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=details_accessories&A=details& Q=&sku=306705&is=REG

so that's the plug i need for the aes/ebu bnc optical input of the the soundcard.

the question is - will it be compatible with the rca optical out as described above ?

thanks in advance.
 

New member
Username: Paul343

Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-05
This seems like a good place to ask this question.

I am trying to connect my computer to a home theatre receiver. They are about 30 feet apart. I tried using speaker wire (really) and as you might expect there was too much "noise" over the connection.

I have a pile of TV cable that I would like to use as it is shielded. Will it work if I connect RCA plugs to this type of cable? I am not trying to make a digital connection, I am just looking to shield the cable as it does pass by many electrical cables en route to the receiver.

Thanks for any advice that you may have,

Paul
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 355
Registered: Feb-05
Paul if your soundcard or computer has an RCA analog output(red-white) all you have to do is run a cable of this type for the length you need, 30' should not be a problem, and connect this to the same input on your receiver.
 

New member
Username: Paul343

Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-05
Thanks Eric,

I do have the correct type of outputs from the computer. I was only thinking of a shielded cable (like a coax cable) to prevent excess noise due to the amount of cable required.

I did try moving the computer over to the stereo and it worked well using a short cable. It does make sense to at least try a longer RCA cable first so as not to waste time with rigging a coax with RCA plugs, so I will give that a try.

Thanks for your time, I'll let you know what happens.

Paul
 

Anonymous
 
They say that ignorance is bliss!!
You lot must live a blissful life!!!

My apologies if anyone wrote anything interesting or even accurate after the first half of this thread but I got bored.

I'm off........................

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 358
Registered: Feb-05
GOOD RIDDANCE! PLEASE DON'T COME BACK !
 

mbrown27
Unregistered guest
"Digital transmissions contain low frequency elements that travel down the centre of the conductor and high frequency elements that travel on the outside of the conductor due to the skin effect."

This, to me, is utter nonsense. I will forego this position if one of my former physics professors (or someone else with a PhD in physics) can show otherwise.

Digital signals don't carry low frequency effects. In fact, digital signals don't carry any sounds at all or have any inherent meaning. Digital signals carry INFORMATION which is interpreted and made into low frequency effects, high frequency elements, and everything in between by digital decoders/converters. This information is transmitted as a rapid sequence of voltage changes on the cable which the decoders interpret as ones or zeroes. These voltage changes are done at a carefully chosen, high-speed cadence. If there is a voltage on the wire in a given time period, you have a 1. If no voltage appears on the wire in that time period, you have a 0. This sequence of 1s and 0s has no meaning other than defined by engineers and implemented in decoders and digital-to-analog converters.

As a result of this design, a digital signal processing circuit must be able to tell whether or not there is a voltage on the line at a given moment. In the real world, voltages do not switch instantaneously. There are switching time factors involved and it is possible for a 0 to be misintrepreted as a 1 and vice-versa. Hence, the electrical properties of a cable must be such that they allow for rapid switching of voltage within the tolerance of the specification, or the whole thing will be thrown off.

Now, I'm not sure about using an RCA patch cable vs a special coaxial cable. Is a standard patch cable so far out of electrical spec that it would produce errors or not work at all? I just did a test using my own system. I replaced my expensive "digital coaxial" with a standard cheapo RCA cable and it worked no problem. My receiver immediately recognized the digital 5.1 signal and decoded it perfectly. I could tell no difference. If there were any bit flipping errors on the cable, I couldn't tell.

Still, I don't pretend that this is the definitive answer on the matter of digital coaxial vs standard RCA patch cord. I supposed that the chance of bits being misinterpreted by the receiver could be higher using an RCA patch cord, but my instinct tells me that if it works, it probably is working quite well if not perfectly.

Someone tell me where/why I'm wrong. But, do it intelligently.
 

Unregistered guest
I have a DVD player that I Lost The remote to...but its set to digital output :-( is there a converter to change it from digital coaxial to regular RCA? Thanks :-)
 

New member
Username: Paul343

Post Number: 3
Registered: Nov-05
Eric:

Update. I tried several things in an attempt to free up the connection of background noise, and ended up with your solution.

I tried speaker wire (about 40 feet as it turns out) and basically made an aerial. Thinking that the problem may be a ground loop, I connected the computer to the same plug as the stereo, but no improvement.

In an attempt to shield the wire, I tried a coax cable that I had lying around. Minimal improvement. (Bad impedance I guess)

Moved the computer beside the stereo and used the CD cables. Crystal clear.

Bought shielded RCA cables (first purchase in this quest). Big improvement. Even with 44 feet of cable, the background noise is minimal.

So, thanks for your input, you were correct at the outset.

Paul
 

Anonymous
 
mbrown27:

At least in theory, there is a difference between the RCA cable and the coaxial cable.
Since you sound like you might be interested in a scientific explanation, I thought I should provide one.
You do understand the basics, so I'll skip that. What is important though is that digital signal, the succession of voltage changes from 5V to 0V like you said, is after all an electric signal. As such, it is characterized by a frequency spectrum, or bandwidth.
If the digital signal would be a perfect alternation of 0's and 1's (0,1,0,1,0,1), then your electric signal could be looked at -- in very ideal terms -- as a sine, or in other words one single frequency.
However, since the digital signal looks kind of rectangular, there is more than one frequency in there. If you looked at the frequency distribution of a digital signal which consists of a perfect alternation of 0's and 1's, you will see that there is a main frequency, and to the left and right other frequencies of decreasing amplitude. For example, the predominant frequency could be centered at 5 MHz, and around it, decreasing, other frequencies at 4 and 6 MHz, 3 and 7 MHz, and so on.
This tends to get kind of convoluted, but what I am driving at is the fact that since in real life the digital signal is never a perfect alternation of 0's and 1's, there will always be a frequency distribution (spectrum) associated with a digital signal, or a bandwidth.
Now, the bandwidth of a digital signal varies significantly. Some media carry this signal better than others. There is a reason why your antenna cable is coaxial and not RCA, and that is simply the fact that coaxial cable carries better wide spectrum signals at relatively longer distances.
What that means is that some media will simply not be able to carry the whole frequency spectrum, acting pretty much like a filter, cutting out some of the frequencies, and this has an impact on how the signal will look on the receiver side.
That said, going back to the RCA vs. coaxial question, the truth is that for short distances -- a few feet -- there will not be a lot of loss of information due to this filtering (or in other words the receiver's inability to decode correctly 1's and 0's), but there will be some nonetheless.
Here is where another feature kicks in, and that is the advanced coding algorithms. With pretty much all modern telecommunication technologies, when digital information is transmitted from point A to point B, that information is ran through some coding engines which are based on some algorithms that allow the receiving end to decode correctly the transmitted signal even if there is loss of bits on the path. Most of the times, this makes the loss of information on the path imperceptible for the human ear or eye.
Although is may sound kind of out there, this is the way this stuff works. For example, information on your CD's is coded the same way, such that if the laser skips a block of bits, the decoding engine (algorithm) can still rebuild the original bit succession.

I am not sure if all this brought any light or confused you even more, but the bottom line is, for short distances, up to a few feet, there is no difference between the RCA and coaxial cables, but beyond that, the signal may become so garbled that even the decoding algorithms cannot pull it through. Therefore, you may want to consider a coaxial cable if you need to carry 5.1 Digital signal more than 3-5 feet away.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 359
Registered: Feb-05
Your quite welcome Paul,glad to be of help. Yes indeed, shielding is very important in a cable. While this is very unecessary in a speaker wire it is of paramount importance when considering the purchase of interconnect cables. mbrown27: I am quite aware of binary code I just spent the past two years of my life studying digital circuits. I am an industrial electrician, not a physics professor,sorry to disapoint,but I do have a considerable amount of training in digital circuits so I feel compelled to provide a response. While my electronics background does not qualify me as an audio expert or an authority on electronics it is probably safe to say that I know a bit more than the average layman crusing this forum. I will at least try to respond to your post. First and foremost the quote that I quoted from a website does appear on the surface to be nonsense. I merely used it as an authoratative ploy to convince others that a solid core conductor is ideal for digital transmissions. A digital transmission particularly the SPDIF is a DC voltage which is clocked and pulsed. This is contrast to a speaker output or a standard RCA audio output which is of course AC. If you measure this voltage or say the voltage on a cable or satelite tv feed it will yield a DC voltage. Since integrated circuits operate on DC,a solid conductor is best because the current will flow completely through all of the conductor. With a standard RCA analog signal current flows in both directions from the input to output and vice versa. This is not the case with a digital signal where current flow is unidirectional. I won't argue with anything in your post as your absolutely correct in the "real" world voltages don't swing instantaneously, the rate of decay is exponential. But that is the beauty of digital transmission it does not have to be absolutely 100% perfect because an IC decoder at the receiving end operates on the principle of a voltage threshold and voltages in between maximum positive and minimum negative will be designated as logic high "1" or low "0". Unfortunately given the hour this is all that I can add now, which I realize is a rather soft answer but if you like I can further elaborate at a more appropiate time.
 

Fetts
Unregistered guest
Hmmm...I'm connecting a Windows Media Center PC to my receiver...and both have the digital audio output / input. Is a 'component video cable' with a 75 ohm conductor the same cable as a 'digital coax' audio cable? What's the difference? The only reason I ask is because I was going to buy a cable at www.tigerdirect.ca, but can't find a digital coax audio cable there. (25'-30' span required) Thanks in advance
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 360
Registered: Feb-05
I would also like to add that anon: You are spot on your post makes total sense.Solid core conductor wire is better for long distances,than stranded wire, Amen!Your right for 3' or less it should not make a difference,but how practical is that limitation? I like to keep my computer as far away from my audio system as possible. Fetts: Just use a length of RG-6 cable you need,solder a couple of RCA's on each end and run a coax digital signal if your soundcard is so equipped to do so. I think RG-6 is double shielded so this should suffice and a 30' would only cost about $20 US at least where I live.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 361
Registered: Feb-05
Zikes!! I meant RG59 Fetts.Use a length of RG59 which is a little cheaper than RG6. I would reccomend sat RG6,however, although a bit more costly, it is more importantly doulble shielded. Most RG59 is just single braided shield then foil.




 

aika-san
Unregistered guest
Just bought a Logitech z5500 5.1 setup. I'm going to hook it up to my PC's Creative Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 soundcard. I've been reading this thread and am a 'lil confused about how it all works.

I plan to use a digital RCA <-> RCA cable and then hook that to a standard RCA <-> 3.5mm mono adapter and plug the 3.5mm plug into the SPDIF output on the soundcard and the RCA plug into the coaxial input on the Logitech speakers.

Would someone be kind enough to tell me whether this is the correct way to hook the soundcard to the speakers?
 

gringo
Unregistered guest
hi out there, can anyone help, i want to record
music from my sony minidisc,(optical and audio ins and outs)to my m audio delta 66 soundcard,without going through breakout box,ie
straight to my soundcard! the connections on the card are spdif in and spdif out. my head is cabbaged with the different info i have been given.
 

New member
Username: Ricks

Post Number: 1
Registered: Dec-05
My stereo has three ways to hook up to my DVD.
1. Component video (blue, green and red)
2. Digital out (coax digital orange plug)
3. RCA (red, white and yellow)

Questions:
A. Is 1 or 2 better?
B. Will No. 2 (coax digital orange) be sufficient for the total surround or do I need to hook up both 1 and 2 or 2 and 3? Is the one cord (coax digital orange plug) enough?

That seems too easy if I just need the orange plug.
thx
 

Chris Boul
Unregistered guest
Hi help needed please.
I have a new (a week old) Sony RDRHX 710 connected to a Philips DVD surround system (LX3950W) using the digital coaxial sockets.

The strange thing is that when I watch a dvd on the sony or when I watch a programme I've recorded on the hard drive it will play as 5.1 surround through the Philips. But when I watch a 'live' freeview programme on the sony it only plays in stereo with a loud hiss from the rear speakers. Any ideas on why this happens?

I can get 5.1 from live TV if I use the RCA connectors but then there is about a second's delay from when someone speaks to when the sound appears.
 

Unregistered guest
Hi. Can anyone tell me if you can get a cable which will plug into the computers speaker input (headphone fitting)to coaxial on sub-woofer system. If so please please please email me at popmanw@aol.com
 

jcampb11
Unregistered guest
Analog 5.1 discrete inputs on my HT receiver. Digital coax out on my dvd player plus the usual composite red and white outputs. Is there any way the 5.1 will get to (or better yet OUT) of my receiver?? The receiver is a Yamaha and is of the Dolby Pro logic type.
 

jcampb11
Unregistered guest
Analog 5.1 discrete inputs on my HT receiver. Digital coax out on my dvd player plus the usual composite red and white outputs. Is there any way the 5.1 will get to (or better yet OUT) of my receiver?? The receiver is a Yamaha and is of the Dolby Pro logic type.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 386
Registered: Feb-05
jcamp: the only way you can get 5.1 is to replace the dvd player with one that has a 5.1 channel output. I suggest replacing the dvd player because this will be cheaper than replacing the receiver and you may be satisfied with the Yamaha. A dvd player with this output will have a built in DD decoder and often such a player will offer dvd audio/sacd as well. You connect the 5.1 outs on the dvd player using standard rca cables to the 5.1 channel inputs on the receiver. Each connection will be labeled with a coresponding channel- be careful to get this correct. Match like channels together at each end and your ready to go. Some players will offer a settings menu where you can tweak the channel/speaker settings. This is a bonus if you have a sub/sat speaker system. You could probably find a player with 5.1 outs for as little as $100 on the net, maybe even less- good luck.
 

Unregistered guest
HEY GUYS!!!!!

I am a little confused here. I just got a new computer and I am trying to connect my digital output to my home theater system. I had bought some RCA cables by mistake and so I tried to connect just one side instead of using them both (i.e. only the white side connected).

This didnt work. I am not getting any sound out of my home theater system. I checked all of my multichannel sound device settings and audio settings on my control panel and I believe everything is set right. I checked the settings on my volume control and added the digital output to it but I am unable to adjust it. It is ghosted out or whatever. If anyone knows what I am doing wrong or how I can fix this problem, PLEASE email me at leemd@cox.net!!!
 

Edward S
Unregistered guest
I thought I was doing fine until I read the previous posts as it relates to connecting one' pc to the a/v receiver. I just purchased the Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Music sound card to improve the quality of the songs that have saved in iTunes for playback through my a/v receiver.

I will be running approximately 25-30 feet of cable initially from the pc to the receiver.

Is it worth spending the extra dollars for a premium digital coaxial cable or would an AR cable be sufficient?
 

an observation
Unregistered guest
I was just looking into this issue in the Creative Labs support base and thought I'd post this.

Solution ID # 4438

Sound From Front Speakers Only In A Multichannel Receiver

The Digital Input jacks found on common home theater receivers are either a Coaxial or Optical Digital Input connectors. These Digital Input connectors are capable of receiving a single data stream only, be it AC3 data stream, DVD, or a regular stereo audio.

More can be had by searching for the above noted "Solution ID" on Creative's knowledge base.
 

Unregistered guest
Please Help. I bought a new PLASMA TV and it has Digital Coaxial output, but my stero only can take PHONO (Red and Yellow). I have a Phono to Phono lead? Will this work with the Coaxial output on the plamsa? If not, can I get an adapter to alter phono into Coaxial. PLZ HELP!!! Mekaeal_12345@hotmail.com
 

Anonymous
 
When splicing the ends on extension cable for my computer 5.1 audio will the neg be on the inside or outside normally.
 

Unregistered guest
I have a tv in the basement. It gets it signal from out local cable company. With another tv 3 floors above the basement I want to pick up the signal without using coaxial cable. Is there a device on the market in Canada.

This same company provides me with a highspeed signal for my computer.
 

Anonymous
 
"Please Help. I bought a new PLASMA TV and it has Digital Coaxial output, but my stero only can take PHONO (Red and Yellow). I have a Phono to Phono lead? Will this work with the Coaxial output on the plamsa? If not, can I get an adapter to alter phono into Coaxial. PLZ HELP!!!"

The issue is with the digital signal. Your stereo takes anything coming in on the left phono and puts it out to the left speaker, same with right. The digital signal does not work that way. All channel information is in the data stream, and is decoded into left, right, etc by the receiver. My guess is that if you hook your coaxial out from the TV to one of the 2 phono inputs, you will hear all sound from left or from the right. If you split the signal from the tv into 2 phonos, you will hear the exact same thing on left AND right. My recommendation? If you can afford a PLASMA TV, you should afford yourself a nice surround sound system for around $300 and up. Why pay all that money for an awesome picture, only to have the absolute worst sound coming from it?
 

Anonymous
 
Rick Solem
"My stereo has three ways to hook up to my DVD.
1. Component video (blue, green and red)
2. Digital out (coax digital orange plug)
3. RCA (red, white and yellow)

Questions:
A. Is 1 or 2 better?
B. Will No. 2 (coax digital orange) be sufficient for the total surround or do I need to hook up both 1 and 2 or 2 and 3? Is the one cord (coax digital orange plug) enough? "

Answers:
1)Component video is video only, no audio. It is better than S-Video, BARELY. The only difference I see is that black is actually black, making it easier to see things that are only a shadow against a truly black background. Big deal.
2)Your digital coax is for surround sound audio. Using digital coaxial audio with the RGB(red green blue) video is much much much better than using option 3.
3) Red, White, & Yellow is the old way of doing things. These are analog, not digital. Yellow is your video, red and white is your left and right audio channels. Use this if all else fails. Or use the digital audio, and run the video through the yellow. Some combo like that will work.
 

Anonymous
 
I'd like to thank you guys for the info on the the facts on digital coaxial cable. Saved me 20 bucks on something I didn't need!
 

matt_mcn
Unregistered guest
Hi im tryin to watch a dvd, never had a problem before but now my audio seems to cut out every few seconds for only a second, My dvd player is connected using a digital coax cable. Ive tried every possible thing without any luck..does anyone know what the problem could be>
 

Anonymous
 
I have a new Pioneer receiver that I have connected my DVD player to using an RCA video cable (the instruction manual actually said this would work). However, I cannot get any sound. The receiver automatically detects analog or digital and has set itself to analog. The DVD player itself though seems to be sending digital, so I have no sound. Any suggestions ?
 

Gold Member
Username: Samijubal

Post Number: 2289
Registered: Jul-04
Set the DD and DTS settings in the player's audio menus to bitstream.
 

New member
Username: Startreksuite

Boston, MA USA

Post Number: 3
Registered: Feb-06
I just got my JVC dstp420 home theater system, and as recommended from one of the members, used a rca plug, one that came with the system. I started watching one of my Stargate SG-1 dvds, and it works. It automatically recognized the Dolby Digital signal. So I didn't have to pay an extra penny to make my dvd player Dolby Digital complaint!
 

Unregistered guest
Does anyone make and if so where can i get an adapter to go from a digital RG6 cable with RCA jacks TO (3.50mm or 1/8" mono)or a premade digital audio coax cable w/male RCA connector on one end and (3.50mm or 1/8" male connector on the other end. Also wondering if i could use a 1/8" mono male to red and white split RCA female and if so which side should i connect to red or white? I am trying to get digital sound from my Sound Blaster Audigy 2 zs to my av receiver Onkyo TX-DS898.
 

New member
Username: Startreksuite

Boston, MA USA

Post Number: 4
Registered: Feb-06
"I have a DVD player that I Lost The remote to...but its set to digital output is there a converter to change it from digital coaxial to regular RCA? Thanks" Have you tried using an rca plug on your dvd and reciever on the coaxial digital in or output on these components, or maybe your receiver has this ability to change this setting, if this is a dolby digital reciever, then you should. If this doesn't work, try to get a replacement remote from the company, check their website!
 

Anonymous
 
is there a way to tell if a optical cable is bad?
my optical inputs on my JVC reciever don't seem to be working when i plug in either my DVD player or my satellite receiver but my coaxial input works from my DVD player (can't try the same from my SAT receiver because it doesn't have the coaxial output). The optical cable (when plugged into the SAT receiver output) still has red light coming out the other end.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 440
Registered: Feb-05
Anon: While it is possible for the optical cable to be "bad", such as a tear in the fiber of the cable, I don't think this is the problem here. Check your settings on your Sat receiver and make sure that the digital out is turned on. This is necessary on many sat receivers such as the Tivo systems. Also check your DVD player and see that the digital output is set to "bitstream" to output on optical and coaxial. If this doesnt work try another cable. If that does not work then the optical digital circuit in your receiver has a problem and needs repair.
 

Anonymous
 
Thanks for the info Eric Ramsey.....the settings on both the receiver and dvd player are correct so my only choices are bad cable or bad circuit. I'm thinking the latter though because the sound was "flickering" (on then off again and again).
 

RCA45
Unregistered guest
Here is a slight variation on the question of RCA coax v. RCA patch cables. I am using a high quality RCA patch cable for component video input from the DVD to HDTV. Now, I'm not trying to save a few bucks. I'm using the patch cable as years ago I ran the RCA cables through the wall and short of tearing up my house I have no way to get a coax cable from the DVD cabinet to the TV. It runs about 15' and runs to a wall outlet with RCA females on both ends for connection behind the wall to the cable to the TV. So even though it seems to work very well, am I missing something? Or is component video somehow less senstive than the digital audio?
 

Anonymous
 
Hi, from all the post above am I correct to assume,
1. Digital audio out must connect to digital audio in. (Short distance standard RCA patch will work but long distance RCA Coax is better)
2. Analog audio out (Red and White) must connect to analog audio in. (Standard RCA patch will work but also can use RCA Coax)
3. Digital audio out cannot work with analog audio in and vice versa. (without a converter)



 

New member
Username: Starbucks

Post Number: 5
Registered: Feb-06
anonymous, i think your assumptions are correct :-)
 

Anonymous
 
Using the info I found in this thread, I crafted this reply for use in a different forum. Whaddya think?
-----------
Before I get into players...let's tackle this "regular RCA cable" vs "the expesive stuff" idea... I will use the term "RCA" for a regular RCA cable (which is Analog), and use "Digitial Coax" to describe the 'expensive cables'.

RCA - 50 Ohms - Unshielded, stranded wire
Digital Coax - 75 Ohms - Shielded, solid wire

So, not a HUGE difference here, but if you want the best signal, you should consider a cable that is designed for the digital system. THE LONGER THE CABLE...When you start talking about 10'+, get a digital coax cable. It has better shielding and for long distances, you will notice a difference between the cable's impedence (Ohms). It was best said in this (http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/accessories/1370.html) thread: "Digital transmissions contain low frequency effects which travel along the center of the conductor and high frequency signals that travel on the outer surface of the conductor due to the skin effect- for these reasons uncoated pure copper center conductors are best" In other words he is saying that for digital transmissions a solid not stranded conductor is best."

But the BEST way to transmit is via optical. It is not subject to interference, and no amount of shielding could make up for this. Whoever said it is expensive is dead wrong. You can get a cheap cable at rat shack and it will work fine. Fiber quality is not nearly as subjective as metalic cable, so as long as you keep the 'covers' on the ends of the cable, and the cable doesn't have any big dents or anything where something heavy was slammed on, etc, it will be fine.

However,......the moral of the story is----- you can have the nicest sound card and be running $60 monster-brand optical cable, but if the signal terminates (plugs into) some sh**ty D/A converter, you might as well be using that 1998 soundblaster and a 1/8" 'headphone' cable. Remember that all music you download is digital, and if you soundcard will support digital output, it really doesn't matter what kind of soundcard it is.

Think of it this way: You have a FLAC file: its a lossless encoding, however it has to be decoded from FLAC to PCM (Pulse Code Modulation - the way all audio is transmitted after it is decoded from AAC, MP3, etc, is in PCM form. Only WAV and AIFF (and a few others) are raw PCM data (that is why you can burn WAV files onto a CD and play them in a cd player, whereas MP3's need another converter). So, you have a FLAC to PCM decoder; that is the first stage in the signal path where you can loose quality. This is rarely an issue for anyone. Second stage (aside from the cables that I discussed previously), D/A (sometimes said as "D to A"; Digital to Analog.
THIS is where it all counts. If you run your expensive optical cable into the sh***iest audio receiver you can find (think walmart $30 "surround receiver"), your quality goes to s**t. Buy a $$,$$$+ D/A converter that you will find in most post-production studios and mastering houses, and you will be flying high (Apogee Rosetta 800). For the rest of us on a somewhat limited budget, just find a nice receiver...stick to well-known brands, and don't skimp here. This is the most important part of your system. If you are running that digital system into some funky $140 5.1 speaker set with a built-in amp / D/A converter, that's no good. Get a nice receiver, or better yet, a monitor control system. Those are mainly for studios, etc, with more than one set of speakers, but I just use one at home for all conversions. Check out the Presonus Cetral Station, or the Mackie Big Knob. Might have more features than you need, but it is smaller than having a big home-stereo type box sitting on your desk. Think about the fact that almost all surround receivers have that "Multi-channel input" on the back, and how you thought "why the h*ll would anyone plug 6 different analog inputs into this thing, and not just use ONE digital cable from the DVD player", etc. It is because some people have a seperate D/A converter that they will take the digital signal from the DVD/SACD player and convert it, then run those 6 (5.1) analog outputs to a seperate analog amplifier for amplification from line to speaker level (or some variation thereof).
 

New member
Username: Starbucks

Post Number: 7
Registered: Feb-06
Annonymous,

I have a question here. Let's take example, NAD CD player, if we are using the coxial or optical digital output to the integrated amp, then will the burr brown 24 bits DAC give any difference in this sense ? thank you.
 

New member
Username: Cold_steel

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-06
My only question:Is it possible to transmit(by Coaxial) the real 5.1 sound(from the DVD-disc)from the DVD-player directly to the receiver who decodes the digital signal and send it to each speaker(like 5.1 channel out/input but with only 1 cable)?

 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 451
Registered: Feb-05
Cold Heavy Steel: This is exactly what a coaxial digital signal(RCA "orange" jack) is and does.
 

New member
Username: Cold_steel

Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-06
OK,thanks Eric
 

New member
Username: Dugm2

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-06
coaxial cable vs. 5 channel audio output (6 rca's)
which will give me a better signal
 

New member
Username: Madridguy

MadridSpain

Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-06
Some help needed: can I use a digital coaxial cable between my subwoofer and amplifier? What the consequence will be? A friend offered this cable for free. Have not tested it yet..
 

New member
Username: Cowley

Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-06
I need a way to get audio from my DVD player to my TV. There's a catch: the only unused wire I have running between the two (already in the wall) is a coaxial cable with F connectors on the ends.

I know you can get an F-to-RCA converter, I'm just worried about frying something. My DVD player has red, yellow, and orange RCA outputs. My TV has red and yellow RCA inputs.

Can I use the coaxial cable? If so, which color plugs should I use at either end?

Thanks in advance!
 

New member
Username: Unregistered

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-06
I appreciate the little bit of informed input contained in this forum, but It's cheapskates like some of you that are screwing up the American economy. Wal-mart and China will be taking over some day and you will be getting some credit. You want the cheapest set up you can have and you take pride in it. What's happened to good ol' American pride in working hard and paying a decent price for a product. I've certainly been guilty, but regardless of the conspiracy theories that some of you have.....China is the conspirator, not America. We're turning into cheap *** trailer trash with China at the helm. The trailer reference has nothing to do with the trailer (we do what we have to do) but they are so often filled with trash that I cannot help myself from making the reference. Eric Ramsey....you rock.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 459
Registered: Feb-05
To be honest John Doe I don't know whether your complementing me or insulting me perhaps an explanation on your behalf may be in order. But I will say that I DEFINATELY don't live in a trailer rather a 2650 Square foot brick home to the tune of $180K, Virginia type Colonial.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 460
Registered: Feb-05
I,ve been busy lately John Doe, so I haven't had much time for the forum as of late but I would like to add a few points at this time to demonstrate how your argument is woefully wrong and misinformed. First off MOST cables in the inexpensive range $10-150 are in fact made in China by bulk cable manufacturers and packaged under a name brand and sold here in the US- think Monster. Some of the more expensive cables are made in the US but unless you have a very good system it doesn't make much sense to buy a $300 cable for a $500 receiver. This extra money is better pumped into better speakers or equipment. I do in fact own several American made products. Some of these include my Ford truck, if you can consider this American made, transmission made in Mexico, steel from Japan or other Asian country or South America, and my beloved Remington Model 870 12 guage pump shotgun, about the finest pump shotgun ever made, many sportsmen and hunters agree. I've never had a problem with buying American, but the fact is that most affordable electronics are foreign made, this has been going on for many years where have you been? Sadly, America is to blame as our govenment gives a communist country most favored trade status and it is us who are whoreing ourselves out to China and the rest of the world with NAFTA and other free trade agreements. As I said before I live in 2 story brick home not a trailer but I have known some fine folks who live and/or grew up in a mobile home, you know there are a lot of them in the south here. I find this reference,that someone from a trailer is automatic trash to be nearly as insulting as your stupidity and ignorance and argument, which is devoid of any correct factual information. I see you didn't post again,good work keep it up.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 461
Registered: Feb-05
Now all this thread needs to be complete is some jackass "enlightened one" type who posts one time under the cloak of anonyimity or some phrase title to come forth and tell us how our postings are filled with little correct information and half truths and what an expert they are and that we should feel privledged by their presence; as if they had anything of notable intelligence to say in the first place. Please, spare us knowledgeable, honest, willing to help folks the drudgery of your inconsequential, mostly incorrect and arrogantly ignorant vocal spew.
 

New member
Username: Kewowski

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-06
Looking for some advice. My new built-in Freeview TV has optical digital audio output but my surround sound system only has 5.1 channel phono inputs, currently in use with my DVD player (also with optical audio out). How can I make the most of my present set up at minimum cost?
 

New member
Username: Binlyd

Prestwick, Scotland United Kingdom

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-06
Eric is indeed correct - stranded wire generates magnetic interference on each wire - Thats why computer network cables are all twisted together in pairs to reduce interference.Single core is the way to go for long distances - rca will suffice for short distances.

You cannot connect Coax Digital directly to Spdif Optical connectors u need a convertor - I believe Maplin sell one! If you have the electronics knowledge you can knock one up for £20-30

DigitaL data requires only a single wire to transmit - the 5.1 or more channels are encoded (multiplexed) if you like into one data stream requiring only one wire. It is up to the decoder on the other end to separate the 6 or more channels and send them to the required speakers front/centre/rear.

Sound cards are a different ballgame in that they are all a pain to configure and get right first time!Use optical spdif not the 3.5mm digital out.
Optical suffers from no interference as it uses glass/cheap mylar - coax uses copper / ofc etc and suffers from magnetic interference / copper impurity / connector impedance mismatch etc!

To get your freeview box to work you need a device with a 5.1 convertor - if u have a pc try the aureon 5.1 fun soundcard its got spdif in and out and its less than £20 - connect the digital optical in and connect the soundcard 5.1 outs to your speakers - alternatively you could buy a receiver (Yamaha Rxv's are good) with optical spdif/toslink and coax 5.1 i/o - Try Richer sounds!!! Home AV is really the easiest way to do it and u get what u pay for.
As ma gran always used to say - pay cheap -> pay twice!!!
>;o)


Hope that helps somewhat!
 

New member
Username: Binlyd

Prestwick, Scotland United Kingdom

Post Number: 2
Registered: May-06
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=29291&doy=25m5

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=29540&doy=25m5

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=29293&doy=25m5

 

New member
Username: Bdb017

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-06
http://www.canford.co.uk/blueprintonline/blueprintaug2003/coaxcables.aspx

If you want the techniqual information on this subject I would recomend the site above. The "coping with cables" part pretty much describes the problems with the use of different cabels. I heard about similare problems at work.I just recently graduated as a power/analog electrical engr, so I understand the basics of what they are saying but not all of it.

The problem is that the digital device are designed with analog amplifyers to send the digital signals. The amplifyers used to send and receive the signal use control loops to maintain the correct signal spec. To do this they have a design spec for the cable impendence (resistance). If the cable inpedence is correct the control loops will recieve the proper feed back and will function properly. If the impedence is close they will function properly. However if the impedence changes to much the feedback from the cable will mess up the anaolog amplifiers.

Summary
Cable impedence is anticipated in the design of the receiver and output amplifiers.
Digital Coaxial Cable are probably tested to meet those specs.
Analog RCA cables may work fine, but they are not tested to meet the spec and there for there is no assurance that they will work for that application.

I am going to try some RCA audio cables that I already have instead of buying Digital Coaxial Audio Cables.

The great thing about digital signals either you have the signal or you dont. Just make sure that you dont run the cables to close to any magnetic fields or the signals may drop out of an accepatable level, to which the digital device will stop working. That is assuming that you bought the cheapest cables and they have no sheilding.

Regards
 

Bronze Member
Username: Beyondtool

Post Number: 13
Registered: Jun-05
Currently using a decent quality 1m video RCA cable for a coaxial connection. No problems and audio is crystal clear. I think we are all agreed that for a very short distance it doesn't really matter, not nearly as much as a cable with a crease in it anyway. Those paranoid and want peace of mind get a coaxial cable, but for the rest of us it's a quick fix.

I just thought I'd underline the Digital vs Analog thing that many asked about. Analog audio with 6 RCA cables was the first attempt at surround sound. By the time the audio signal reaches the 6xRCA connections it has already been decoded from digital. DVD players that include these connections are often problematic (as a previous post of mine on this site showed). The Cheaper DVD players often don't decode the signal into 5.1 at all, or if they do they use a poor quality decoder.

The only way to convert a digital signal be it Coaxial or Toslink (Optical) into an analog signal (like 2x red and white RCAs in your stereo) is to use a Dolby Digital decoder. These are usually built into an receiver/amplifier these days. A decent amplifier is expensive however and overkill for many people who just want surround sound without the hefty price!

There are devices such as the Creative DDTS-100 which will decode digital signals into analog and allow you to hook up your analog stereo or speakers. They are a cheaper option than a receiver/amplifier.

Some DVD players include a bundled speaker system and decode the Dolby Digital signal, however these systems are generally of poor sound quality and are not very versatile (you can't hook your stereo, Ipod or game console to them). But they work for some people since they are simple to use.

I recently purchased a Logitech Z-5400 5.1 speaker system. For a very low cost I got a quality speaker system with a Dolby Digital decoder, 2x Optical inputs, 1x Coaxial input, 3x Mini din inputs, 1x portable music player input and a headphone output...and a remote to control it all. This speaker system is THX certified amd the sound quality is absolutely fantastic. The whole system cost less than the average amplifier price and I can even hook it up to my PC.

There is also the Z-5500 which is the big brother and is capable of filling a hall with pumping bass and scaring most neighbours if you dig that kind of thing. Prices for these systems vary wildly so make sure you look around.

Compared to the average Home Theatre system these speaker systems offer great versatility, value for money and excellent audio quality that will keep all but the most picky very happy. It's hard to quantify the sound quality without a ruler, so lets just say you can easily tell the difference between a Dolby Digital DTS movie and a 128kb mp3 and the clarity of the system rivals the very expensive Alpine system I have in my car.
 

New member
Username: Binlyd

Prestwick, Scotland United Kingdom

Post Number: 3
Registered: May-06
Eric is indeed correct - stranded wire generates magnetic interference on each wire - Thats why computer network cables are all twisted together in pairs to reduce interference.Single core is the way to go for long distances - rca will suffice for short distances.

You cannot connect Coax Digital directly to Spdif Optical connectors u need a convertor - I believe Maplin sell one! If you have the electronics knowledge you can knock one up for £20-30

DigitaL data requires only a single wire to transmit - the 5.1 or more channels are encoded (multiplexed) if you like into one data stream requiring only one wire. It is up to the decoder on the other end to separate the 6 or more channels and send them to the required speakers front/centre/rear.

Sound cards are a different ballgame in that they are all a pain to configure and get right first time!Use optical spdif not the 3.5mm digital out.
Optical suffers from no interference as it uses glass/cheap mylar - coax uses copper / ofc etc and suffers from magnetic interference / copper impurity / connector impedance mismatch etc!

To get your freeview box to work you need a device with a 5.1 convertor - if u have a pc try the aureon 5.1 fun soundcard its got spdif in and out and its less than £20 - connect the digital optical in and connect the soundcard 5.1 outs to your speakers - alternatively you could buy a receiver (Yamaha Rxv's are good) with optical spdif/toslink and coax 5.1 i/o - Try Richer sounds!!! Home AV is really the easiest way to do it and u get what u pay for.
As ma gran always used to say - pay cheap -> pay twice!!!
>;o)


Hope that helps somewhat!
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 471
Registered: Feb-05
Thanks for the support Lydia! In many cases less than 6', a stranded RCA will work for digital audio, but why not use a solid core cable for a digital audio transmission,then you can be assured of dropout free transmission, you can construct one yourself for very little $ <20 U.S.D.. As far as your assesment of the situation goes, you are basically correct, current flowing through a wire does generate a magnetic field around the wire and thus a twisting of the conductors tends to negate the sum additive effect of individual fields and offset RFI interference in high frequency transmissions. You are also VERY correct in what you said about a digital signal,in this case a coaxial digital signal output. It is indeed a multiplexed signal, meaning several independent bitstreams though a single ended conductor, this has been done for many years by the tv cable companies here in the U.S.
 

New member
Username: C100kigmon

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jul-06
Just for others refrence last night after reading this post I went out and bought 100' of RG-6 cable (same type of cable you use for cable TV/internet, satalite tv, and that has a tip in the center and screws in) and also bought a pair of RCA connectors. I spliced the wires, put on the RCA adapters and hooked it up to my DVD player and 5.1 system using the Digital Coax connection(SPDIF) I also had a Digital Coax cable that came with my speakers and in switching between the 2 I could not hear any difference, both sounded amazing. All in all it cost me $15 for the 100' cable and $1.50 for the RCA connections. After I found out it worked not only with that cable but with 100' of wire I installed it in my house thats under construction so my DVD player and sub(which contains the other Digital Plug) can be connected in wall across a large room.
 

New member
Username: Jeffaz

Post Number: 1
Registered: Aug-06
I just bought a new computer and upgraded the sound card to the Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1 and also have a Onkyo 7.1 home receiver. I have hooked the computer upto my home stereo system but can not get true surround sound. I am using the digital setting on the card, and the coax input on the onkyo. All speakers work but it seems to work more in a left/right mode. I am using a 12ft standard audio cable with a Y adapter red/white coax connection. So, plugging into the Onkyo I only use the red coax. Do they make a digital cable that has a standard audio jack on one end, and only one coax on the other end? I can't find this, and am wondering if this has anything to do with my problem, that my coax cable has 2 connectors, but i am only using the red. I am pretty much lost here, have no real experience in trying to setup a new home audio to PC system. Anyone have any recommendations?
 

New member
Username: Bobbyrival

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-06
Can anyone help me???
My sub has randomly stopped working...i am running it through a Kenwood KRF-V5030D amp, but the strange thing is that if i run the test tone on all the speakers the sub kicks into life!!! but doesnt work when any other sound is comming out :S im most confused...maybe its the cable??
i dunno....if anyone can help soooo it!!!lol...
bob
 

New member
Username: Slcpro

Post Number: 1
Registered: Dec-06
Audio, video and digital audio all use coax. The difference is the impedance or AC resistance. Audio (generally red & white connectors)cables are high impedance to match up with the inputs in the area of 10k ohms. Video (usually yellow)cables are 75 ohm and digital (orange) cables are 50 ohms.

Mismatched impedance will cause reflections of the signal causing distortion & in the case of digital, extra or missing bits. In most cases you will not hear the difference. The longer the run, the greater the chance of problems.

For Jeff who is running 12ft of audio cable. Most likely you're introducing a lot of problems. Try a video cable or move your comp within 3-6 ft max. as a test using a shorter audio cable. If your surround is better but not great, get a digital cable. What is most likely happening is the extra/missing bits are confusing the surround decoder.
 

New member
Username: Slcpro

Post Number: 2
Registered: Dec-06
For Chris Wiltshire: Some subs have an auto-standby feature which will power down the sub when the signal is below a certain low level. See if that is your problem. If it is, disable that feature and power down by hand or connect it to the switched outlet on your Amp.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 499
Registered: Feb-05
Actually RCA cables be they video or analog audio can be run as long as 25' with no problems. An analog audio signal has nothing to do with a data bitstream of a digital signal. The reason that Jeff is having problems is because he is using an analog RCA cable set that probably is not shielded and thin(inbox cables that you get free when you buy a piece of equipment) so there is probably an impedence problem. He should use a length of RG6 cable with RCA's at each end or buy a cable labeled "digital coax audio" which is a bit of a misnomer since there is nothing "digital" about a cable but nonetheless a cable designed for such transmissions will have less of a variance in impedence and usually be a solid conductor instead of stranded. A few like the Monster are stranded but these are actually annealed copper sections bound together to form a solid wire. A coax digital signal is actually a DC voltage which is different from an analog audio(red,white)analog video(yellow,s-video, and component) and speaker level which are all AC voltage signals.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mikemv1977

Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada

Post Number: 43
Registered: Feb-06
I call b/s on all regards to store bought cables that say digital coax and rca coax and so on. You can build any type of cable using regular Belden or Commscope RG-6 75ohm coaxial cable and a couple of rca end connectors. I work in the electronics industry and we make all the standard types of signal cables to pass an analog, digital signal. Theres no difference in what your cable will do. You can make a run of 100ft with a coax cable running a digital signal from your computer to your receiver and not lose any signal integrity.
The monster cable you buy at any retailer will say the same thing on the cable casing, 75ohm coax, your paying for a name. But you can make the same quality cable for nearly 1/4 the price. A box of RG-6 cable will set you back maybe no more then $200 and a pack of rca connectors maybe $30. All you need to know is how to solder a lead. Its a lot of hassle saved to know that what you can buy for $150 for 10ft, you can make for 20$. Hope this helps you guys realize how much people who dont know much about electronics get taken for a ride with big box retailers. Good luck with spending.
 

New member
Username: Slcpro

Post Number: 4
Registered: Dec-06
A digital signal is in no way DC. Some may be fooled by the fact that digital is often specified as having 2 states ie. +5v = 1, 0v = 0, but it definitely alternates between those levels.
At the bit rates being used now digital is subject to all the laws of transmission lines.
With DC all you need to consider is the resistance of the cable. RG-6 at 75 ohms works in most situations because its impedance sits at video (75) and near most digital, 110 or 50 ohms
Monster cable is expensive for 2 basic reasons; brand name and Oxygen Free Copper (OFC). Most experts agree that OFC does show advantages over standard copper, in the lab at least. 95% of the systems out there will not show the differences and 99% of the ears can't hear the difference. Most video (75ohm)cables will transmit the digital audio reasonable distances
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 500
Registered: Feb-05
Steve: If you have a DSS system go outside and take a volt meter and disconnect the cable coming off the LNB and measure the voltage. This will be A DC VOLTAGE(about 12V) NOT AC. A coax digital signal is approxamately 500mV peak to peak which would suggest some alternation but this is actually not what occurs. A DC voltage may vary between two reference points but this does not mean that there is a sine wave by such a variation. Take for example your telephone service which is DC not AC,(feel free to verify this with your local phone company if you must) which will be a DC voltage of about 48V during conversation or when the phone is not in use but when it rings it climbs as high as 140VDC. The two states on/off or 0,1 respectively are transmitted at .5v=1,0V=0 or "off". The reference threshold is 0V which is the "off" state. Processors and DA converters and all other semiconductor devices operate on DC voltages not AC so it is indeed a very complex circuit because the source voltage and current DC has to be changed to AC by an oscillator "clock" for the timing of the signal and then rectified,(although a full wave rectifier is rarely necessary-a fairly simple diode network is usually utilized) back to DC for transmission to the semiconductor device that propigates the signal through the output. I use Monster cable for a few interconnects but I consider it to be inexpensive cable as compared to more esoteric brands such as Tributaries,Nordost and Kimber which sell very expensive cables sometimes costing many hundreds to thousands of dollars for one pair of cables.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 501
Registered: Feb-05
Again to further add a DC voltage which is a constant voltage signal may fluctuate between reference points due to fluctuations of the source input voltage but this does not necessarily mean a sinusoidal waveform is being produced. Take for example a car battery in a running automobile. During normal operation it will be about 12V but it can climb as high as 16v depending on load and electrical demand from the engine. Does this mean the change between these two points produces a corresponding sine wave? Common sense says a resounding no. A standard battery powered flashlight(AA,AAA,C or D cell)is another example. Take an empty flashlight put new batteries in it and switch it on and let it run till the batteries are exhausted and the lamp goes out. Over time the voltage will of course gradually decrease till it reaches nearly 0V at which point the lamp will go out. If you had an O scope connected to the flashlight the entire time you would see that there are in fact fluctuations in the voltage,although slight, even when the batteries are fresh. This is the beauty of a digital signal since it doesn't have to have it's maximum or minimum input voltages to decide 1,0 or on/off. it operates on the principle of threshold voltages which in the case of a .5V signal a mere .25V or 250mv could be enough to change the state to 1 or on and when the source V falls below .25V even though it is not 0V it may cause the state to change to 0 or off.
 

New member
Username: Slcpro

Post Number: 5
Registered: Dec-06
35 years as a graduate EE designing computer peripherals says that you misunderstand the data presented to you. The 12v you measure on the DSS is a supply voltage used to power the receiver. A voltmeter will not be able to sense the high speed digital signal.
Talking about batteries in this context is ridiculous. The fluctuations in a dc supply voltage are called AC ripple. AC is not defined as a sine wave. A square wave, a sawtooth or triangular signal are all AC signals and AC need not be constant nor does it need to go negative. AC means alternating current, pure and simple. To state that digital is DC because the chips are supplied by DC is pure ignorance. Your car radio is supplied by DC. Are you saying that the Radio Frequency waves (RF) and the voltage producing the sound from your speakers are DC signals? Nowadays your HiFi components are run by DC. The AC coming into it is rectified and filtered (and if Halfwave you have very noisy & cheap equipment) to DC to run the semiconductors that manipulate the signals. Oh, and by the way, your car battery is charged by an alternator which produces an alternating current that is rectified into a full wave that alternates from 0 to peak.
I don't know where you got your concept of how digital works, but it is full of misconceptions.
First the AC from the wall is rectified (made to no longer pass through 0) and filtered to produce various levels of DC, both positive and negative. You state that the DC is turned into a digital clock signal which is AC. Right there you state that a digital signal is AC and you are correct. The digital or analog signals are not rectified back to DC at any time.
Enough discussing your nonsense. Try hooking a battery to your speaker and listen to that for a while.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 502
Registered: Feb-05
NO that's not what I said Steve, I am full aware that a speaker level signal is AC. I believe you are taking what I said out of context. Please explain to me what you mean by "produce levels of DC both positive and negative" You can of course have a negative AC voltage, but a negative DC voltage?!! If you chop the off the negative cycle of an AC wave and reference the positive half of the wave you are left with and the further filter that for a constant steady average voltage you really don't have AC anymore do you? Ripple is pulsating direct current not AC because the current NEVER reverses direction(taken from one of my old textbooks) For a signal to be AC the current must flow in constantly reversing directions,not necessarily to negative,true, but reverse at regular constant intervals, this is not what ripple does. The 12V coming off the LNB is not to power the receiver,as this comes from the 110V AC outlet that the receiver is connected to, that would be like saying that the antenna on your cellphone powers the phone. I think you need to read my post more clearly before you insult me and state points that I never mentioned and make assumptions. For example I never stated that a simple Voltmeter would be able to sense the high speed digital signal,I simply implied that it would read a DC voltage of about 12V nothing more. My only point was that a voltage signal coming through a coax cable cannot always be assumed to be an AC voltage.Also what is this bit about RF theory and speakers? I did in fact state on a previous post on this thread that a speaker signal is AC, DID I NOT???
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mikemv1977

Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada

Post Number: 44
Registered: Feb-06
So I have been trying to figure out how this whole issue of cable for either component, audio, or subwoofer has anything to do with why there is a wack load of crap about AC vs. DC. 75ohm is 75ohm, you could just hook up a couple of metal hangers with rca connectors on the end and still have the same audio result. High end audio cables all use the same distinct line of what cable signal impedance is, and that is 75ohm. If you check out Monster Cables site, all the cables they use, be it for audio, video and sub, all use the 75ohm strand of steel coil with copper tinned dialetric. Its all the same signal, now maybe most big name companies make the cable sound extravagant, but I have learned working in electronics that the cable we use for video test and audio is no different then what the big brands sell. They use this rare metal called "Unobtainium", which suckers all over the world buy into bcuz they are all misinformed. Save yourselves all the hassle, spend a couple hundred $$$ on some RG-6 Belden or Commscope Coax Cable, some rca connectors, and a soldering iron. You will be shocked at the same result you get for 1/4 the price you would pay for a 150$ subwoofer cable. They all say 75ohm on the cable strand, so learn to stop getting suckered into the world of high end non-sense and save a few $$$.
 

New member
Username: Slcpro

Post Number: 6
Registered: Dec-06
The receiver I was referring to is the one in the dish itself. You could call it a preamp if you want. Any one who understands electronics knows there needs to be a preamp at the dish. And the box you call a receiver is a set top box or a satelite tuner. A receiver in the context you attempted to use it, is an amplier with a built in tuner.

Alternating means changing from one state to another and back again pure and simple. It does not have to go negative or even reach 0

Ripple in the reference used here is the AC component of a DC supply. It is usually refer to as AC ripple by engineers and electronic techs.

If your hifi components contain halfwave rectifiers for their power supply, you have crappy equipment. Halfwave is missing half a cycle. That means that for half the time there is no power being fed in from the wall. Anyone who does not understand that doesn't really know electronics.

If there is DC coming out of the coax, it will be used to power something at that end. The DC will be blocked (generally by a capacitor or a transformer) and the AC signal passed on to the rest of the circuitry. The other possibility is that you have a problem at the other end of the line.

RF has everything to do with the transmission of digital signals or rather transmission line theory does. Check out the Fourier transform of a simple square wave. Also checkout the effect of group delay on a digital signal.

This one really rings the bell! The following is a quote from Eric's last post. "You can of course have a negative AC voltage, but a negative DC voltage?!" Now taken out of context or in context I read that as Eric saying that he doesn't believe in a negative DC voltage. Eric, go to a desktop computer and open it up and read the label on the power supply. All of you out there who don't know who is knowledgeable and who is BSing, take a look for yourself. Eric, what does it mean when it lists +5v, +12v, -5v and -12v. Depending on the vintage of the P. supply there will be other voltages listed. Oh, one more thing. AC is not considered as a negative voltage except possibly when it is biased by a negative DC voltage. Half of the cycle is negative and is balanced by the positive part of the cycle if it is not biased by DC. There are certain grounding schemes and arrangements which could be considered --AC so I will give you that one on a technicality.

Eric, by your own admission you are an Industrial ELECTRICIAN not an electronics Technician. There is nothing wrong with your job and I for one will state that it is not a simple, easy job. The point is that you are not designing or working with electronics. Your training is not in electronics. I don't know where you spent 2 years learning digital, but I would ask for my money back.

I have tried to explain where you went wrong and it has taken too much valuable time. For now on I will just tell you when you are BSing and the rest of you will have to decide for yourself what to believe. I truly hate self elected experts who mislead people who truly want to learn. Everything you read on the internet needs to be verified at least three times.

Steve
 

New member
Username: Slcpro

Post Number: 7
Registered: Dec-06
To Mike: Actually 75 ohms is not just 75 ohms. Take an ohmmeter and measure across a 75 ohm cable, Oh I should be more specific or you might try to measure from one side of the braid to the other. Measure from the shield (a wire braid or foil with a bare stranded wire ) to the center conductor (that little pokie outie thing in the middle). You will measure multi,multi megohms or out of range depending on the meter used. If you are clumsy you will short out the cable and read 0 ohms, but not 75ohms.

The 75 ohm designation is a nominal Impedance or AC Resistance and will only be 75 under specific conditions.

The shield, dielectric, center conductor size & material all affect the signal. The longer the cable, the more important these become.

The more expensive systems are more likely to show a difference. The more sensitive your ears are is also important. SO, since you probably saved money and bought $20 auto store specials, the coat hangers should be just fine, if you can figure out how to hook them up.

Steve
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 503
Registered: Feb-05
Fair enough Steve, no I don't design electronics. I work with industrial motors,control panels, the wiring associated thereof,PLC's and program robots,this was the bulk of my training. Of course you can have a negative DC voltage,that was a mistake in my post that I overlooked,my apology I work second shift and I was tired. From my understanding it is negative because the difference of potential exists below ground and this is what is seen when it is measured. I spent only a few months on digital as we just had to learn the basics before we could move on to PLC's. One could spend many years studying digital and not know all there is to know. I'm not sure about the point of your reference to half wave rectification as every amplifier I have ever seen has at least one full-wave rectifier in conjunction with ceramic caps and polarized caps for supply. I'm doubtful any respected manufacturer would use only a half-wave rectifier for a main power supply as that would produce a great deal of noise in the supply-completely agree. A word of warning, you may not want to throw around your credentials as anyone can state they are an engineer, a computer expert or even cable manufacturer and without proof,as this is an open and for the most part no-holds barred forum. This is probably what I thought here, my apology sir. In any event Mike is totally right. Good old standard RG-6 will work for a variety of applications in home audio and I have suggested this on other threads. For 99% of systems out there a $20 vs. a $200 cable will not make an anthill worth of difference. I am a little open minded though, the other very top 1% highest end,most organic sounding systems could produce perceivable differences,although extremely marginal and only to trained ears, with different interconnect cables. For speaker wire "lampcord" in a relatively thick gauge such as 12 or what I use 10AWG has been proven with testing to be as sonically transparent as "esoteric" cables costing exponentially more.
Let's face it anyone who spends $50/ft on speaker wire has too much disposable income and probably needs their head examined.
 

New member
Username: Slcpro

Post Number: 8
Registered: Dec-06
Fair enough Eric. I accept that the -DC thing was a late night mess up.

As I stated in my last post, I have respect for your profession. You need to stick to the facts and quit trying to inflate your position here. This is a quote from a post you made in Nov. 2005 " I am quite aware of binary code I just spent the past two years of my life studying digital circuits. I am an industrial electrician, not a physics professor,sorry to disapoint,but I do have a considerable amount of training in digital circuits so I feel compelled to provide a response."

I brought up the halfwave thing because you mention several times in your posts making seem like that was what you thought was what was in general use.

What I stated about my experience and training was a much reduced synopsis of the truth and I stand by it. I'm not worried that someone will be able to refute it. It is obvious from your posts that you have some valuable knowledge and experience to share, just don't inflate it.

"Let's face it anyone who spends $50/ft on speaker wire has too much disposable income and probably needs their head examined." I agree and I was trying to say that though these cables are different and in the lab are measurably better in their transmission qualities, 95% of us can't hear a difference (assuming a system under ~$3000 & cable runs of 3 to 6ft (1-2m). In fact 10 AWG for speakers is a bit of overkill unless you are wiring a theater.

Steve
 

New member
Username: Quaintdreamer

TrivandrumIndia

Post Number: 8
Registered: Nov-06
hi,
I just need a comparison between Bose 901 with Wharfedale 9.6 Diamond. I will be very grateful for your comments
 

New member
Username: Slcpro

Post Number: 9
Registered: Dec-06
Calvin, both companies have been around a long time and are solid.

Let me tell you the location of the absolute best experts for you... on either side of your head. No one can tell you which are best for you.

Listen, listen, listen, then make sure you can return them. Generally the acoustics in the store are significantly different than your listening space.

Good Luck

Steve
 

New member
Username: Neenaa

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jun-07
Looking for an adapter that will go from cable to DVD/Video player then back to tv which has coax?? Any ideas?
 

New member
Username: Db_audiofile

La habra, Ca Usa

Post Number: 5
Registered: Aug-07
Calvin,
Are these for Video as well or just audio? You might also want to check the impedence to make sure you do not send your amp into orbit. Bring your own demo material. Do not let a shark like me control what you here! Both these speakers are better than normal and they Sound Completly Different!!!! Steve is right listen and make sure the controls are set to flat! I do suggest better cable wire. Do not spend a bundle, get better wire. This will help. your friend,
Db
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