Circular or Linear LNB, What's the difference?
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2591 Registered: Oct-06 | Circular or Linear LNB, What's the difference? LNB all it does is convert frequency From GHz to MHz It picks up high freq off satellite and down convert it Coax max bandwidth before starting to break up is 2.4GHz or 2400 MHz 11.7G to 12.2G down converted >>> 0.9 to 1.5GHz 12.2G to 12.75G down converted >>> 1.5G to 2.15 GHz - Circular= Inp of (12.2G to 12.75G Hz) LNB polarity rotation is not required - Linear= Inp of (11.7G to 12.2G Hz) LNB polarity is required - Universal= Inp of (11.7G to 12.75G) to get Linear yo must rotate LNB For Circular yo do not need to rotate LNB Yo can get both Circular and Linear polarities with one cheap LNB All yo have to do is rotate it to face Linear polarity and yo'll get both polarities Yo do not need to rotate it in any direction to get the circular polarity NO NEED TO SPEND $60 ON INVACOM All it does is to rotate freq inside block This is a Digiwave LNB $10 to $15 LNB might just do the job  This is a generic LNB I found on e-bay Capable of getting full freq span 11.7 to 12.75 It's what yo should look for in an LNB if looking to pickup a specific satellite  Disclaimer I never tested either product Yo test at your own risk But if I tell yo it should work there is a great chance it should Come back and tell me and all the others how it did Bashers are totally ignored Enjoy King's Exclusive Hobbyist Club There is more where that came from if yo are into satellite as a hobby Do yo wanna know what are the rules splitting freq off the LNB? |
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Silver Member Username: PlymouthQuebec city, Quebec Canada Post Number: 934 Registered: Jan-08 | Good post KING can you make both in the same one like invacom? |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2593 Registered: Oct-06 | Yes yo can That's what my post is all about All yo have to look for freq 11.7 to 12.75 Should work like Invacom if install correctly |
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Silver Member Username: PlymouthQuebec city, Quebec Canada Post Number: 935 Registered: Jan-08 | Give me news if it work I paid 100$ for mine in Canada and i wents bought another. I will wait. Do you have conplete info with gain DB for compared Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2595 Registered: Oct-06 |  Most of the things I say I never test I may never test either But if I tell yo it should work it really should Are yo starting to doubt my electronics and physics?  |
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Silver Member Username: PlymouthQuebec city, Quebec Canada Post Number: 936 Registered: Jan-08 | NO NO King Sorry no doubt do not worry.  |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2596 Registered: Oct-06 | "Do you have complete info with gain DB for compared " Great question 50db of convertion gain or better to meet the linear requirement, for circular yo don't have to worry cuz it's higher DBW over linear which any basic LNB should do The digiwave LNB is a better conversion gain of 60db Will be better to handle linear polarity as it is a weaker power freq If yo find an LNB that goes as far as 70db that's even better The typical gain should be 50db Look If anyone afraid to try a $10 or $15 LNB Then yo are not a real tester I tell yo what...I will try it |
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Silver Member Username: PlymouthQuebec city, Quebec Canada Post Number: 938 Registered: Jan-08 | It's better then Invacom with is 50-60 db I will try it this this summer because big three, i went install 2 dishes with 2 positions. A bigger for true FTA and reposioned my 33" |
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New member Username: Dude80Post Number: 7 Registered: Mar-08 | Thanks, very helpful to me at least  |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2597 Registered: Oct-06 | Please come back and tell us if it works cuz I don't feel like trying it And I think the digiwave LNB can work well for all purpose |
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Bronze Member Username: PulpfiktionPost Number: 11 Registered: Mar-08 | Would you use a circular LNB instead of a Universal LNB? |
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Bronze Member Username: DssbssPost Number: 11 Registered: Dec-07 | circular rotation uses left and right hand rotation electrical changed linear uses horzontal and vertical polarity mechanical changed usualy with a servo |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2599 Registered: Oct-06 | Yo don't have to worry about L or R for circular In fact on your receiver amplification process is handled as V and H even for VHF or UHF yo move antenna direction for high V and H gain to obtain I/Q signal pair of the plane (V and H orthagnoal plane) known as Faraday's rotation. L and R is basically rotation free Easy to invert 180 degrees like a mirror Easy to obtain regardless of plane rotation Easy for dummies to install that's all It's all analog frequency folks same performance I would personally bet providers use circular polarity when multiple satellites is to be received on one dish For multiple sats yo skew dish for angle reflection only not for polarity processing Take my word All yo have to match the freq to LNB freq Is like buying a radio that can do AM and FM Low freq or high freq 11.7 to 12.2 GHz is Ku Low 12.2 to 12.75 GHz is Ku High If yo get any crappy LNB that handles both Ku Low ot Ku High yo just got yourself a Universal LNB |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2608 Registered: Oct-06 | Here we go Yukon again Making offensive comments cuz yo don't understand electronics If I were yo I'll just give thanx to the people that actually teach yo the things yo can't google for no return or gain. I know yo learn from my comments anyway. So yo are welcome one_eye_jack |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14731 Registered: Jan-06 | Circular & Linear LNB's: What's the difference? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- c/p OK everyone, put your polarizing sunglasses on. What's the difference? Answer: About -3dB or half the signal level. Now take your sunglasses off. Notice how bright it is in here? The difference in brightness is an example of using the wrong lnb type. Circular and Linear polarization refer to the characteristics of the radio wave that is transmitted by the satellite towards your dish/LNB. Below are links to visual comparisons of Circular (Left or Right-hand) and Linear (Vertical or Horizontal) polarization. http://www.lyngsat.c</a>* om/echo3.html Nimiq 2 @82.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/nimiq2.html Nimiq 1/3 @91.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/nimiq1.html EchoStar 6/8 @110.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/110west.html EchoStar 7 @119.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/echo7.html EchoStar 1/2 @148.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/148west.html How do I know they are circularly polarized? If you click on any one of the links for the satellites above you will notice that under the first column labeled as "Freq. Tp" you will find one of the following single letter designations: "R" = right-hand (=circular polarization) "L" = left-hand (=circular polarization) So what about linear polarization? Linear polarization refers to a wave of radio signal rotating in a single plane. Think of an approaching helicopter as the helicopter's main rotor is moving towards you. It is rotating in a single, horizontal plane. The same approaching helicopter's smaller rear rotor is rotating in a single, vertical plane. In our satellite case it can be either in the "H"orizontal or "V"ertical plane. The following example satellites (visable in N.America) are transmitting with a linear polarized signal: SBS 6 @74.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/sbs6.html AMC 5 @79.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/amc5.html AMC 9 @85.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/amc9.html IA 6 @93.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/ia6.html IA 5 @97.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/ia5.html AMC 1 @103.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/amc1.html AMC 2 at 105.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/amc2.html EchoStar 9 @121.0W http://www.lyngsat.c om/echo9ia13.html Again, under the first column labeled as "Freq. Tp" you will find one of the following single letter designations: "V" = vertical (=linear polarization) "H" = horizontal (=linear polarization) Now that you understand the difference between the two satellite polarization types please put your polarizing sunglasses back on. Hmmm, a little harder to read this right? Well, that's what happens to your receiver when you try to use a linear polarized LNB to receive a circular polarized satellite signal and vis-a-versa. About a 50% loss of signal! Armed with the invaluable information you now possess, by using this link http://www.lyngsat.com/america.html you can determine for yourself what type of LNB you will need for each satellite. If you need a circular polarized LNB look for words describing it as "DSS" or "DBS" or "circular" or a combination of these terms. If you need a linear polarized LNB look for words describing it as "FSS" or "FTA" or "linear" or a combination of these terms (FYI: All Universal LNB's are linear LNB's). There are also LNB subtypes such as dual output or quad output. I won't go into that here because there are several discusions on this forum as well as a FAQ dealing with those subtypes. I suggest you use the excellent search feature as well as spend some time reading the all important "Sticky" threads. You can take your sunglasses off now. |
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Gold Member Username: NydasPost Number: 9313 Registered: Jun-06 | It is getting darker here even without the sunglasses. Must be the shadows of ghosts. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2612 Registered: Oct-06 | LK The 3 dbs yo are referring to is circular gain amplification loss by about 3dbs over linear due to constant rotation of both V and H orthogonal plane Providers use Circular to avoid rotating LNB itself But same electronics laws applies It's not a new tech In fact I found circular antennas in FM, VHF and UHF Using same methode I do welcome any response And I do love when we exchange knowledge What I present at this thread is: Ku High= 12.2G to 12.75 GHz = (AKA circular) (no polarity rotation required) Ku Low= 11.7G to 12.2 GHz =(AKA Linear) (polarity rotation is required) In some cases like 118.75 FSS is circular despite using Ku Low frequency band in this case no rotation of LNB required Universal contains both freq KuHi and KuLo All yo have to worry about is freq in GHz No one have to worry about L or R Yo only have to worry about V and H  |
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New member Username: Dude80Post Number: 8 Registered: Mar-08 | King said: "Universal= Inp of (11.7G to 12.75G) to get Linear yo must rotate LNB For Circular yo do not need to rotate LNB, Yo can get both Circular and Linear polarities with one cheap LNB ". While LK said: "(FYI: All Universal LNB's are linear LNB's)". I think the two statements contradicts with one another. Can anybody clarify! |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14761 Registered: Jan-06 | "(FYI: All Universal LNB's are linear LNB's)". ...is a 100% true.....with a lower frequency than circular LNB's Not really sure what King is trying to say... There is ONLY 1 UNIT that I know of with both circular and linear polarity, and thats an Invacom QPH 31 Quad LNB, has 2 LNB's in 1 unit!...but this is NOT a Universal LNB.. Invacom Circular/Linear Ku 0.3 dB Quad LNBF QPH-031 4-Outputs. Use it to connect multiple receivers to one dish. This LNBF is a combination of two dual output Circular and Linear LNBFs in one single unit. This 2nd Generation version offers Linear (FSS) 11.7 -- 12.7GHz & Circular (BSS) 12.2-12.7. You can use it for Ku band FTA, or DSS satellite systems. Integral feed horn with 40mm neck fits on most offset dishes, like the Winegard and the Fortec Star 80,90,100, and 120cm dishes. Note: If you want to combine the Circular & Linear polarity outputs into one coaxial cable, you will need a DiSEqC or 22KHz switch (not included). |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2614 Registered: Oct-06 | Don't be afraid to ask...I don't bite Universal= full sweep from 11.7 to 12.75 GHz regardless circular or linear Everything is V and H Providers take V&H and rotate both polarity That's called Circular so yo don't have to rotate LNB and when they rotate signal they lose about 3dbs off their power gain If yo rotate signal yo don't have to rotate LNB and if yo don't rotate signal yo must rotate LNB to V&H orthognal planes Providers can send all Linear polarity on freq band from 11.7 to 12.75GHz with no signal rotation still called Ku band and simple basic V&H to get full signal sweep yo rotate LNB in the direction of signal wave. Providers can send all circular polarity on freq band from 11.7 to 12.75 we have seen that on 118.75FSS and 119DBS by DN. One simple LNB that is capable for 11.7G to 12.75GHz is all yo need BSS and all that stuff is basicaly to avoid directing LNB towards correct V&H plane trust me all waste of money Many provider in Europe use Ku from 10.7G to 12.8G hz can be all Linear or Circular Providers in N. America are spoiling installers so they don't have to rotate LNB just point and shoot Most basic Linear LNBs can't get above 12.2 cuz they are called standard Ku LNB for US only that's why they can't pick circular polarity they are half Ku or half the frequency band There is no circular LNBs they are all linear Yo can call them anything yo want Basic electronics rules applies This is why I asked for a different satellite forum So we can talk about Satellite as a hobby not as a business Bottom line yo can ask me how sure am I I'll let the reader decide how sure I  |
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Gold Member Username: NydasPost Number: 9318 Registered: Jun-06 | There is nobody here as strong as King when it comes to hardware. Yukon is probably th enext best. There were others but they have all gone. For most of your work in KU Band stick to what your satellite installer or the FTA receiver seller advises. They are far more knowledgeable than the like of LK here, whose main asset is to be able to come with a C/P, relevant or irrelevant, and whose main hobby is to try and knock out anybody who she remotely feels is competing. |
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Silver Member Username: PlymouthQuebec city, Quebec Canada Post Number: 965 Registered: Jan-08 | I have one QPH-031 LK, you dont know nothing on this one, you try again to bash King Sorry You are in error again. KIng have many more experience then you. Why talking for nothing like that. Why you dont start youre thread on it? King give good answer |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2615 Registered: Oct-06 | LK wasn't bashing He was providing his prospective on what he gathered about Ku I don't have any experience on satellites I'm a 100% hobbyist for less than 2 years But I can put things in great prospective from my 25 years of electronics in fact I can put it together better than echostar That's why I always said they can't afford me |
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Silver Member Username: PlymouthQuebec city, Quebec Canada Post Number: 966 Registered: Jan-08 | QPH-031 This LNBF is a combination of two dual output Circular and Linear LNBFs in one single unit. You can use it for Ku band FTA, or DSS service. The LNBF provides simultaneous reception of both linear and circular polarized signals with a 0.3dB noise figure and 55dB gain! This 2nd Generation version offers Linear (FSS) 11.7 -- 12.7GHz & Circular (BSS) 12.2-12.7. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2616 Registered: Oct-06 | When yo need to point dish for 2 or more satellites: Yo have to turn dish matching King's Belt It's where yo find all orbital locations Relative to your geographic location As a rule of thumb Looking from back of dish East Coast: Turn dish clockwise West Coast: Turn dish counter-clockwise Use: For exact value skew  |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2617 Registered: Oct-06 |  |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2618 Registered: Oct-06 | If yo got one satellite and want to get a second Yo can get without skew dish at all But yo may have to raise or lower second LNB Depending on where yo live  |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2619 Registered: Oct-06 |  In DC Voltage and Current division can be easily performed But in AC yo can't divide as easy. In AC Dividing is like cloning process known as Inducing With the help of electromagnetic technology it can be done as following: To start yo need a 2 way splitter marked: 2.4GHz or 2400MHz will work for any Ku Band Keep in mind Ku Hi= 1450MHz to 2150MHz Ku Lo= 950MHz to 1450MHz 900MHz can not be used for any satellite signals at all  Also keep in mind a splitter will not produce 2 independent polarities either (V) or (H) the splitted outlet with face same fate as main receiver and usually (H) frequency will over-ride (V)  Splitting a dual LNB is so simple Just like this 3x4 Switch:  The main reason is to split both (V) and (H) polarities |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2620 Registered: Oct-06 |  |
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Bronze Member Username: Buyer2007Post Number: 40 Registered: Mar-08 | King, great pics by the way. Would you have pics to show how to conv. superdish 121, 110 and 119 to 118, 110 and 119? I keep reading but the pics will let me know if I can do it myself or have to get someone. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2621 Registered: Oct-06 | This 6x8 switch is capable of handling 3 satellites and up to 8 receivers Keep in mind 6 inputs for (V) and (H) make 3 satellites  2 relative links here: http://www.spaunshop.com/?bpid=usa&modul=home https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-video/393639.html |
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Silver Member Username: PlymouthQuebec city, Quebec Canada Post Number: 997 Registered: Jan-08 | Simple and easy to understand you make good a job KING |
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Silver Member Username: One_eye_jackPost Number: 491 Registered: Nov-07 | King, you say as a rule of thumb, looking from the back of a Dish. EAST COAST:turn your dish clockwish. Do you mean if Iam from the East Coast or to turn my dish towards the East Coast? King Tapeman Gold Member Username: Tapeman New York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2616 Registered: Oct-06 Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 10:08 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When yo need to point dish for 2 or more satellites: Yo have to turn dish matching King's Belt It's where yo find all orbital locations Relative to your geographic location As a rule of thumb Looking from back of dish East Coast: Turn dish clockwise West Coast: Turn dish counter-clockwise |
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Gold Member Username: PlymouthQuebec city, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1016 Registered: Jan-08 | Yukon King is right That change if you are in south hemisphere in north hemisphere this is right |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2625 Registered: Oct-06 | This is an example of 3 Sats Shows skew on east cost/central/west cost The main reason for skew is line up sat order to King's clock Sats example 91/101/110  |
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Bronze Member Username: BazzoonPost Number: 12 Registered: Aug-07 | king Tapeman I have a universal LNB but can only pick *LINEAR* sats out there. They are useless for any of 110, 119 and 118.8! I could only use it for G25. Listen to LK in this one. The fact that it is universal does not imply polarity is irrelevant, does it? I am actually looking at one of the two I have. It is a fortec star and it says "Universal LNBF FSKU-V" R.F: 10.7-12.75 GHz L.O.: 9.75/10.60 GHz N.F.: 0.5dB I will be very surprised, but happy if it works for circular sats. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2626 Registered: Oct-06 | If your LNB can pickup 12.2G to 12.75GHz then yo can pickup circular that's the Ku high range If yo need me to help yo create a thread and I assure yo resolve the issue |
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Bronze Member Username: BazzoonPost Number: 13 Registered: Aug-07 | Why a new thread? What kind of a special setup, if any, shall I do. I have a 30 inch and 36 inch dishes. I have a universal LNBF 11.7-12.75 GHz (L.O.: 9.75/10.6 GHz). I have a pansat 6000hxc (and a neighbor with viewsat.) We will be happy to test this LNB so it picks everything in the KU range. Waiting for your help here. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2632 Registered: Oct-06 | Why new thread? Cuz yo'll be hijacking mine The settings yo are selecting controls the internal clock frequency that actually locks program signal DN is recently putting a pulse code recognition part of their new conditional access I have been scouting that activity for several weeks ago If yo wanna test something for the purpose of learning then create a new thread as it can take over 12 replies when it gets to freq there is nothing I can't handle If yo just wanna fix and move on then buy the LNB that LK tells yo |
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Silver Member Username: One_eye_jackPost Number: 498 Registered: Nov-07 |  |
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