NAD T753 audio hum with DD, but not DTS, EXT7.1, or 2ch Stereo
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New member Username: FergyPost Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 | Just picked up the new T753 from Stereo Lab in Seattle. Sounded fantastic in the store, compared to the more expensive Integra 7.4. Brought it home watched a few DVD's then when I put in Dolby Digital with the volumne turned down (~ -48db) I noticed this hum. Turn the volumne up hum stayed the same (volumne and pitch ~500hz) all the way to +18db whether the dvd is playing or paused. The only thing connected is a Malata DVD player (via optical digital only) and my speakers (Wharfedal Evo 40s, Klipsch Center-Surrounds RF series). Power and inputs are separated by about 3ft. Just to be sure it wasn't coming from a power cord. I've got the power running thru an APC 1500 rack mounted battery backup so I tried bypassing that as well. No luck. Slight tonal noise when I change volumne up or down too. Seems as though anything that doesn't require the DD, PII , or some sort of audio decompression works fine with no noises or glitches (both hum and volumne clicking). DTS, DTSES, and EXT7.1 which uses the DVD players decoder do not suffer from the problems. I've read in other posts that people with the T752 had problems and wanted to know whether they were fixed in the T753, just wanted to let you guys know. I'll be giving NAD just one shot at fixing it, else I'll be moving on to the Integra line (I hope they don't have these issues as well). I'll see what SpeakerLab can do for me, so far they had to replace a defective remote on that receiver right outa the box (which they gave me one right on site without any trouble). I don't want to bash what otherwise seemed to be a great sounding receiver/amplifier, but it's useless if my old Sony ES had better quality control. |
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New member Username: GeekboyPost Number: 52 Registered: 12-2003 | off subject, but... I'm running an APC 1500 as well in my rack. |
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New member Username: FergyPost Number: 3 Registered: 01-2004 | I've found that the line quality off of battery backups is much better conditioned than what you get out of the wall, plus it's the best surge protection you can get. Just thought I'd try disconnecting it (anything could cause a hum). |
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Anonymous | I just received my second NAD T753 and now notice the slight hum you mentioned. For me it is not an issue since I can't hear it when I am listening to music. I received my first T753 on Dec. 8th. The right channel did not work with an analog connection but worked fine with a digital connection or in dsp mode. I think my first T753 was a very early production model (#140) and according to my dealer, NAD acknowledged a problem with the earlier receivers. It took over 2 weeks to get a replacement due to Christmas and New Year holidays. My dealer loaned me a Marantz 6300 for several weeks which I really liked. But I must say, the sound for my ears from the new NAD is discernibly better. The new remote didn't work for a day until I inserted the batteries with great force. Now, everything has been working fine for a week and I am enjoying my new adventure into home theater. |
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New member Username: BilldashillPost Number: 23 Registered: 12-2003 | Maybe you need to "burn in" your new receivers then the hum might go away. Try leaving the units on for a few days (2-4) and see if that help. I'm not talking about stand-by mode I mean fully on. I couldn't do this without playing something on my NAD T532 cause if no signal is detected, the unit shuts off automatically in 15 minutes. I can't believe NAD still has problems. I'm kinda bummed about it. |
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New member Username: Dm57Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 | Good afternoon to everybody ! This is my first involvement into the discussion. I have read some of the topics already and since I want to upgrade my current Hi-Fi system, I would like to hear some suggestions from those of you who are more experienced than myself and (as I already saw) very much willing to help. Let me start from what I currently have. It is an old system (stereo), part of which I would like to change and part of it to keep. NAD 705 Stereo Receiver Marantz 67MkII CD Mission 753 loudspeakers My idea is to go for the surrounding system so apparently I need a new receiver - I was thinking about the NAD. Here is where I can listen to your suggestion: I am not sure wheather to go for 752, 753 or 743. I have a room 6x4 meters. Since I am happy with my Mission 753 speakers, I was thinking to add Mission v6c as a central and Mission m5ds as a rear. I prefer good audio quality so I was thinking about DVD-Audio and/or SACD. Here I am in doubt wheather to buy NAD T533 (plays only DVD-Audio) or to go for Denon 2900 which plays both DVD-Audio and SACD. Beside your suggestion here I would also like to hear your opinion about DVD-Audio versus SACD. Finally, regarding the TV, I was considering Loewe Aconda 9381. I appreciate any help and suggestion |
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New member Username: FergyPost Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 | Just wanted to post to you all here about what has happened with the NAD 753: Went to Speakerlab today and the guys there were very helpful. I explained my problem to them. They said it would have to go back to NAD and that they didn't have any other's in stock. I decided on the spot that I would just go with the Integra 7.4 receiver because I had already seen problems with the remote and other people having the same issues with the 752 which evidently weren't rectified in the 753 line. The Integra has worked flawlessly out of the box. Honestly it's very disappointing that the NAD had these bugs. It is a fantastic amplifier they have that IMHO, sounds better than any in that price range, and a few above. The Integra 7.4 - well it's nearly as smooth sounding as the NAD (side by side test), but has more features, and no hum. Speakerlab was great, no hassles about it and were very understanding. |
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New member Username: ProblemPost Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 | I'm interested in buying NAD 752 or NAD 753, because its best choice for money, I can't find feature that it doesn't have and it sounds great. But I'm very concerned about problems that you all have been writing about. I was hoping that NAD had only these problems with NAD 752, but now you are posting errors regarding NAD 753. How many of you have purchased NAD without bugs. |
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New member Username: JohnnyPost Number: 40 Registered: 12-2003 | I have an NAD T762 and have had absolutely NO problems with it. My dealer said he had an original shipment of about 100 762's and had only had 2 or 3 returned. |
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New member Username: John_aPost Number: 95 Registered: 12-2003 | I advocate zero tolerance for hum. If you can hear it, it is a fault. It will not go away as you break the receiver in. It can only get worse. "I can't hear it when music is playing" is missing the point. Music includes silence. And not just the famous 4 1/2 minutes (apparently the Frank Zappa version is well thought of). Take it back. I was told some T752s had faults, including hum, because of a software issue, and it is now fixed. I am disturbed to read brand new T753s still have problems. It is a serious issue. |
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New member Username: GeekboyPost Number: 70 Registered: 12-2003 | John A: I totally agree. I was just gonna write that there are some quality problems in all brands and if the owner finds a problem, they should go right back to the store. It's like buying a new home and finding a crack in the foundation and saying "well, I don't see it when I'm inside, so I'll just live with it". The crack won't go away, and will probably get bigger. Yes, I'm disturbed also that the 7x3 line is showing the same (apparent) software bug that was in the 7x2 line. |
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New member Username: ProblemPost Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 | It's also strange, that you can not find any information about 753, 743 on www.nadelectronics.com. Our dealers (Europe - Slovenia) don't even have new series, coming in February. I think NAD is perhaps trying to solve problem |
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New member Username: John_aPost Number: 96 Registered: 12-2003 | Problem, I found the pdf data sheet here, it is probably an advance release to a dealer. Note NAD are honest about the reason for analogue connections for DVD-A. This is the first time I have read the truth on this subject! My local dealers do not even have the new receivers yet geekboy, I feel the same way. All makes have some problems. But responsible makers will take great care of customer satisfaction and their reputation. I think I have killed my own hum problem for good, courtesy of pretty good support from NAD and local technical services. Hum problem solved. Testimonial for NAD customer service. Best to both |
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New member Username: ProblemPost Number: 3 Registered: 01-2004 | I think I found the same dealer, when I dicovered pdf with specifications. Now I would like to get my hands on manuals as well. That's in my opinion the best way of previewing the reciever. But as I told, I didn't find feature that 753 doesn't have. I'm just worried I will get defected reciever. I think it will not happen. I will probably buy it at Harvey Norman, where they extend warranty to 5 years (for payment of 15% of value). |
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wslam Unregistered guest | ground it! |
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New member Username: FergyPost Number: 6 Registered: 01-2004 | It is completely possible I got the one out of a 100 that had to go bad on me, and yes if they had another in stock I would have taken a trade in. A thoroughly tested trade. Just be sure you test it first guys. I don't think that's too much to ask a dealer to let you do. The good thing about all this is that the problem is very specific - play a dolby digital (not dts) dvd thru coaxial or optical digital, pause the movie - if it hums you've got the bug. It's got to be a chipset revision that puts out too much frequence distortion near part of the amplifier circuit. I doubt software revision could fix this, but I could be wrong about that. I was surprised myself thatthe 753 was not on NAD websiter. Speakerlab did not carry any 752's in stock. I would have looked at those before the Integra 7.4. NAD really does have the better tonal quality. Hopefully they have enough engineers slamming them about their QA process that they will fix whatever is causing this. The 762 (or 763, I didn't look closely enough at it) and the demo 753 at Speakerlab did not suffer the same problem my 753 had. John A. : I agree with you...if it hums it's not right. If it hums when you're pushing +10db well you can fix that with some grounding or isolating your power/spkr cables from each other, but it should not hum when you have a cd/dvd paused at moderate listening levels. wslam: I probably shouldn't feed a guest/troll, but seriously you need to re-read the post. It was reproduced in the store on a separate system, and the Integra I got to replace it does not hum hooked up to the same GFCI outlets with grounds tested. |
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New member Username: John_aPost Number: 99 Registered: 12-2003 | Matt, Thanks. Agreed, Problem, Sorry, I think I misread your post, and thought you meant the T533, which is a player, not a receiver. |
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anon Unregistered guest | t753 / t743 now avalable on nad's web site: http://www.nadelectronics.com/ |
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New member Username: ProblemPost Number: 4 Registered: 01-2004 | Thanks for information. I visited the site, there are descriptions, but manuals are yet to come. I would like to see those. Is anybody subscribed to the nad's pulse newsletter? How does it look like? |
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Anonymous | The manuals are there! Pick, for example, the T752 manual, wait for the PDF to come up, then strip off everything after the ".../manual/" in the URL. A listing of all manuals will appear, including those not linked from the support page. The T753 and T743 are there, and have been since December. |
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New member Username: ProblemPost Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 | I feel so stupid for not trying this. Thanks, you gave me something to read until I can hear it. Why is there no link on their site? |
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New member Username: LarsaPost Number: 6 Registered: 01-2004 | When you are talking about humming, you are not talking about hissing, right? If I put my ears 10-20cm from the speakers on my T753 system, when there should be silence, I can hear some hissing. This has to do with the amp's signal-to-noise ratio, I believe?. This is not what you are talking about, right? You're talking about a definite, steady, low-frequent hum, right? ...in which case, I'll just say for the record that my 753 (connected to a TV, VCR, T532 and active sub (B&W ASW300)) has not picked up any such hum yet (knock on wood)... |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 | Hi Everyone, I'm a new user and followed the NAD discussions on the 752 for a while. Last weekend I bought the T753 hoping all the problems where solved with the new series but have the same problems as you guys: a continues hiss in stereo and a hum on surround sound. When you turn the volume knob and listen close to the main speaker you hear with tiny steps hiss/no hiss. Very strange. I did no try the reset yet. Does that action solve the hiss as well? Today I got a new one without any problems (Hobo Hifi Haarlem), which had the same problem. Tomorrow I will call NAD here in Holland and ask what to do. I am certainly not gonna accept a receiver with a his and a hum. My old 304 amp has no such problems. Any suggestions more than welcome |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 | Forgat to ask: Does anyone know if the T763 has the same problems? I might go for that one otherwise... thanks |
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New member Username: Gatt767Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2004 | I can't understand how come NAD did not see to these probs. On my T762 (an older model) none of the hiss or hum is heard. My firmware version is 1.18 |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 | Just to let you guys know: Asked NAD Netherlands what to do with the second defect T753. They said it was a problem they did not encounter yet, but he was not really surprised after the T752 problems. Went back to the store, tested another T753 and T763 which all had the same problems, hiss and hum. In the store they said that the hiss was normal (?? is this true, my 304 does not hiss at all), the hum not. They called another store: you can guess by now: the same problem. But they also sold a few which had no problems or the owners don't have the sensitive ears we have:-). I am now waiting for NAD to send a new one without problems. |
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New member Username: John_aPost Number: 116 Registered: 12-2003 | I cannot quite get a clear picture of the problem. If you turn the gain (volume) control up to max and put your ear next to a speaker, it is not a fault if you can hear some hiss. It is a fault when you can hear it from your normal listening position, and at the gain setting you use for listening to the programme material. Same with hum in surround mode. Under test conditions you can always reach the limits of the equipment specification. When the noise interferes with the purpose (audio reproduction) THEN it is a fault. A technical servicer can consult the service manual and see if the S/N ratios etc are within specification. Hope you guys get this sorted out. My hum tale is fixed, and it is never audible under normal listening conditions, but I can just get it at gain control levels that would be impossible with a signal coming through. |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 6 Registered: 01-2004 | Hi John, The hiss can be heard at any volume, from minus 78 to + xx. In some music it is disturbing, since I play mostly at low volumes. The hum or buzz can also be heard at any volume on front and surround, so when they are only talking in a movie, you here a buzz from the back which is quite irritating. My current setup (NAD 304, NAD 910 processor and NAD 912 amp) are complete silent at any volume with no input. No hiss or hum, and they are all connected through analog high quality cables. So I was more likely to pick up something with my old setup than with an integrated device as the T753. Both hum and buzz do not become much louder when you turn up the volume. I think that from NAD where they put music first one can expect a receiver that does not hiss or hum wether you hear it when listening to music or not. The dealer agrees with me and asked NAD to replace his complete stock. It is not that I want to put NAD in a bad daylight or so. I bought my first NAD more than 10 years ago and it is still going strong. Another brand is no option for me. I want a NAD! I could have easily go for another brand now, but I am certain that they can repair this. The T752 problems where solved eventually. Perhaps they used some bad components or so. |
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New member Username: ProblemPost Number: 6 Registered: 01-2004 | Please keep us posted, about your Nad, Rob. I also looked at other brands and I was not satisfied as much. But I want to hear silence, if there is a silence in my music. I dont want to here hum, his or buzz. I think that in modern recievers - amplifiers there is to much computer circuts involved. |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 7 Registered: 01-2004 | Will do. I except to here more in a few days. |
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New member Username: John_aPost Number: 117 Registered: 12-2003 | Rob, Thanks. I get the picture. It is a serious fault. I am sure they will fix it for you, and the others. What a shame these problems are in a new line. NAD is going to be in trouble, despite the great sound, if they cannot consistently deliver units meeting their published specifications. It is a lot of money to the individual, and must be disappointing. |
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Darren Unregistered guest | Am I ever glad I found this forum!!!! You guys have helped me out in a HUGE way. I went in yesterday to purchase a T773 receiver and I must say it did sound great. I then remembered this forum thread and I asked the dealer to pause the movie we had in. Sure enough I heard the "hum" that you guys pointed out. I noticed too the buzzing sound when the volume knob was turned up and down. Even the dealer was dumbfounded and said that you wouldn't expect this from a receiver costing this much. Does this happen with all T773's. Is there anyone out there that has heard one or that has purchased one that is quiet? I really liked the sound from this unit and want to buy it but I'm not putting up with that annoying hum. |
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New member Username: Kt1200Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 | I recently purchased a T763 and I do not have any humming during DD playback. I too heard of issues with NAD receivers but after talking with my dealer who said he has seen very little problems with NAD I decided for the T763. I do not regret the decision. My T763 is extremely quite, no hum. |
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New member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 43 Registered: 12-2003 | I have had the T762 and T763 and have heard no hum. Maybe my unit knows the words. |
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New member Username: BrowncowPost Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 | I bought a NAD 753 from a local dealer recently and I enjoy it so much. Up to now, I do not hear any hum and noise. Talking to the saleperson from my dealer, he mentioned that hum problem could be come from the power line or some unshielded electronic sitting next to your audio components. I am not sure if those are true because I don't have the problem. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 153 Registered: 12-2003 | Hum problem solved. Testimonial for NAD customer service is my story with the NAD T760. There is a link back to a thread in which I tried everything I could think of with grounding, interconnects, stray electromagnetic fields. Unsuccessfully. It turned out to be a component failure. But if you have a new unit you don't have to go through all that. Just take it back. It is fault. Now my receiver does not hum. It doesn't even whistle, Jonathan... (groan). |
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Darren Unregistered guest | Matt Ferguson: To get rid of the hum during DD playback try doing this; - go to your SETUP menu - select "INPUT SETTINGS" - scroll down to "ANALOG IN" and make sure that it is set to "OFF" Now play your DD movie and see if the humming is still there. My dealer spoke to his NAD rep and the rep was aware of the issue and told him that that was what you are supposed to do. Apparently the unit is still searching for an analog signal even when you are in DD mode, hence the humming. Let me know if this works as I have just ordered a T773 and it will be in on Friday. I want to make sure my receiver isn't going to hum! |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 154 Registered: 12-2003 | Darren, Since it is DD only, that sounds like the problem and solution. Matt...? |
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Anonymous | I've been following this thread as time permitted. I have a new T753 and noticed the humm (thought it was the fan at first). I try the advice above and post back. I really, really hope that is the solution. The unit overall produces great sound. |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 8 Registered: 01-2004 | Hi everyone, Still nothing from NAD. For the record: My NAD is really defect. It did not help closing analog ports, and even in the shop it gave the same problems. The hum is there in all surround modes, only not in stereo. If it hums or hisses it is not good! |
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Anonymous | Well, I turned off everything, including sources (digital and analog) with real connections just to be sure. Bottom line, the humm is present on the surround speakers when I use a COAX input and invoke a surround mode requiring them. I hear no humm under stereo or downmix. The humm is not present when I use an analog input and a surround mode other than stereo/downmix. I think the next step is to take it back to the dealer and setup it up there. If the humm does not show up, then it I'll look more critically at my transport/cable/power, etc. BTW, I don't hear the humm on the front L/R channels (I have no center ... yet.) I don't hear the humm on any speaker in a stereo/downmix mode. More to come .... |
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New member Username: ProblemPost Number: 9 Registered: 01-2004 | Anon, do you have external antena hooked on cable system? If you do, try pluginig it off. |
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New member Username: ProblemPost Number: 10 Registered: 01-2004 | I have question for you, Anon. Does DTS work on only four speakers? |
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New member Username: BeamerPost Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004 | I have a NAD T752 and havnt heard any humming. My DTS works except for with the sub. The problems on these receivers are LONG and WIDE. Their technicians and engineers must be working over time to fix all the returns with these. I have no sub output in all modes except for 7.1 Matrix and EARS. Mines going back to the store and its being replaced with a Rotel. |
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Anonymous | Problem, I don't have a cable system. I have "rabbit ears" hooked to the VCR, and the simple AM and FM antennas provided the NAD T753. Nothing else. With respect to DTS and 4 speakers, I will confess, I am still getting my arms around the various modes and what they mean; I cannot answer your question per se. Perhaps after some more reading and listening, I'll be able to answer your question. Now, with that said, I will say that I've configured center turned as OFF. Doing that *does* remove at least one surround mode if not more. EARS is not available under a 4 speaker configuration, for example. That makes me suspect that the engineers at NAD are taking speaker configuration into account. For the record, I really like the sound I hear from this unit. My dealer rep has been in direct contact with NAD on this and I'm seeing the e-mail traffic. NAD seems to be taking this seriously. I hope that this problem is quickly resolved. I'll keep posting here until I run this to ground, whatever the determination might be. |
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Darren Unregistered guest | I hope this humming problem is resolved soon as well. Keep posting any and all info you get as it is greatly appreciated! |
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New member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 8 Registered: 12-2003 | You say you're seeing the e-mail traffic... Has NAD given any indication as to whether or not they know what the problem might be? Is it an isolated issue or a design flaw? |
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Darren Unregistered guest | I e-mailed NAD about this problem and they haven't responded to me yet. Its been about 10 days since I e-mailed them. |
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New member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 | Darren, maybe you should remind them that you are posting your customer service experience with them on an Internet AV forum that caters to hundreds of potential NAD customers... |
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Anonymous | You guys are a bunch a frickin idiots. There's no hum with the 773 and if you have one it's either your individual unit or you have a ground loop hum or you need to get back on your medication. I own the unit and it's dead quiet. I've e-mailed and CALLED NAD and told them about this thread and let them know that it's typical internet horse@#%* So if you guys think your the only ones contacting them about this your wrong. Maybe this is why they're ignoring you. If you truly have a hum take the unit back to your dealer and VERIFY it and RETURN it and shut the f@#*% up already. |
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A Little Bird Unregistered guest | Darren, you've been posting on AVS as Lee Lang. Did you actually get a 773 yet or are you still repeating and worrying about stuff you've only read about?? |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Hi all, I have just posted that I just got my NAD T773 Receiver with the Snell speakers, connected the system, and it run without any issue. The sound is graet, clean and I feel that it is coming arround like gentle and soft blanket. No issues at all, and the only thing I can say is NAD and Snell - well done!! No humm, and no any bugs. I love my NAD T773 with the Sneall speakers, and will not exchange it with any other receiver!! If you need any further info, please let me know, and I will be glad to help. Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 11 Registered: 12-2003 | "If you truly have a hum take the unit back to your dealer and VERIFY it and RETURN it and shut the f@#*% up already." Why would you recommend doing that if you just reassured NAD that, because YOUR unit works okay (at least under whatever dubious conditions you've tested it), ANY quality or performance complaints they receiver are all just "Internet @#%*"?!? On top of that, you then encourage everyone who does have real issues (as verified by the dealer) to keep them "under wraps" and not say anything about them. Are you a troll or a NAD dealer? |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 12 Registered: 12-2003 | post-scriptum, And this thread was started as a thread about hum in 753s, not 773s. |
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Anonymous | UH... because someone might actually have a defective unit even though mine's not. Or how about this, I don't think there is any hum and taking the unit back to the dealer is the qickest way to find out. If mine hummed I wouldn't be posting here, I'd be at the dealer. Like little bird said darren aka lee lang has been posting for DAYS about this hum and he still doesn't actually OWN the unit. He's been talking about the 773. He stated on AVS days ago that he ordered the unit even with the reports of hum. He's posted here as recently as today and still doesn't say he owns the unit, just that he keeps calling NAD about a hum. More questions for me, let em rip. |
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Anonymous | Darryl, It was YOUR post, by the way, that caused me to post here. The one where you say I hope your letting NAD know your posting on the internet about your costumer service experience. He's not a costumer dude!! And that was nothing more that you suggesting he threaten NAD. |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Hi all, I have just posted that I just got my NAD T773 Receiver with the Snell speakers, connected the system, and it run without any issue. The sound is graet, clean and I feel that it is coming arround like gentle and soft blanket. No issues at all, and the only thing I can say is NAD and Snell - well done!! No humm, and no any bugs. I love my NAD T773 with the Sneall speakers, and will not exchange it with any other receiver!! If you need any further info, please let me know, and I will be glad to help. Daniel |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 13 Registered: 12-2003 | "UH... because someone might actually have a defective unit even though mine's not." 1. I never suggested that your unit worked perfectly in the first place. Maybe you're just not very observant. 2. If this is a defect, and not a design issue, then you probably stand a better chance of getting a good one than a bad one. Moreover, if the rate of these defects or failures exceeds what would be considered usual or customary for the process capabilities of mid-fi electronics manufacturing then, Yes, NAD needs to address it. 3. You are referring to your experience with a 773. This thread was started for 753s. Just because your 773 *might* work, doesn't invalidate the concerns of other 773 owners, much less 753 owners. "Or how about this, I don't think there is any hum and taking the unit back to the dealer is the qickest way to find out." That's certainly better than your first response. Assuming, of course, that the test conditions are similar enough and that his problem wasn't related to interference or a ground-loop problem in the first place. "Like little bird said darren aka lee lang has been posting for DAYS about this hum and he still doesn't actually OWN the unit. He's been talking about the 773... The one where you say I hope your letting NAD know your posting on the internet about your costumer service experience." 1. Regardless of whther the issue is a real or imagined, NAD customers deserve customer service, which includes a timely response. And I am pretty certain that the company isn't helping itself out at all by ignoring *potential* customers, either. 2. I am not suggesting that he threaten NAD. On the contrary, he is ALREADY posting his poor customer service experience with NAD on the Internet, so indicating this fact would have given NAD an opportunity to stifle the very same bad-mouthing to which you are referring. 3. I don't care whether Darren owns a 753, 773, or none of the above. That really isn't the point. And your response, which is vague enough to be directed at *anyone* experiencing an issue with *any* new NAD receiver, suggested that those with problems should essentially "shut up." If you are specifically referring to Darren, perhaps you should address him directly next time. The fact that you are posting anonymously already calls into question your ojectivity and integrity on the matter. |
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Anonymous | Darryl, also, I do apologize for being such an a*#. It's just that everytime I find a thread about NAD hum Darren aka Lee Lang always seems to be in the middle of it and he doesn't own the unit, at least not yet. I mean come on, it's a little strange don't ya think? I'm not saying he's doing something malicious but I do think he's a little "off" and creating false buzz about a unit. Whether intentional, I don't know but I don't think so. That was the reason for my return the unit to the dealer remark. Either it hums or not, if it does return it and quit posting about e-mails you send. Then come back and let us know what the dealer and NAD have to say. I think this is what normal people would do. Daniel, same as you, great experience with the 773. |
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Anonymous | Oh, so if I say my NAD works perfectly I'm not very observant. I love It!!!! Now there was a fair statement. LOL! |
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Anonymous | And since your slow I'll repeat. DARREN POSTED ABOUT THE 773 AND YOU REPLIED. I DON"T CARE IF THE 753 WAS THE REASON FOR THE THREAD. |
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Anonymous | In fact Darren states he'll have the 773 on friday and here it is saturday. Well??? |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 14 Registered: 12-2003 | "Oh, so if I say my NAD works perfectly I'm not very observant." 1. I'm still not saying that your NAD does or does not work perfectly. 2. My ex-wife thought her GE boombox with the "bass boost" turned on sounded great, though the distortion made me grit my teeth. So, no, just because something sounds "fine" to *you* doesn't *necessarily* mean that it sounds "right" in general. "It's just that everytime I find a thread about NAD hum Darren aka Lee Lang always seems to be in the middle of it and he doesn't own the unit, at least not yet." I can understand your concern. I don't know whether this particular guy has a legitmate problem or not... But several others in this thread certainly seem to have them. And, more to the point, NAD definitely has had some quality issues in the past. I, personally, would rather see these get resolved as quickly as possible if they are real. I plan to buy a 763 soon, and would rather not have to wait 9 months for NAD to get any potential issues resolved. |
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Anonymous | BTW, Darren if you DO get the 773 make sure and eliminate all ground loop problems before you even unpack the unit. Hook components up one at a time and check for problems and for god's sake if you have cable disconnect it from the the TV before doing anything. Cable TV is the #1 ground loop hum offender. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 15 Registered: 12-2003 | "And since your slow I'll repeat." Even though you may think silly attempts at starting flame wars by semi-literate adults posting anonymously on e-Coustics in an attempt to relive their teenage angst may "get a rise" out of me, they really just don't. "DARREN POSTED ABOUT THE 773 AND YOU REPLIED." I replied about Darren's e-mail to NAD's customer service department. YOU are the one ranting about every other aspect of Darren's audio-video world, including potential aliases he may have. Again, I don't care whether the man owns a 753, 773, or none of the above. |
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Anonymous | Again Darryl I apologize for my abrasiveness. I just want more than just Darren reporting this with the 773 before it's turned into an official issue with the unit. I see your point though, I could be a little nicer. I'll try.  I really wish Darren would post that he's got the thing and report what he hears. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 16 Registered: 12-2003 | No worries. |
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Anonymous | I got's to go, the Lion king is on in HD. I'll be back after i've calmed. |
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Anonymous | [img]http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb035.gif[/img] |
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Silver Member Username: GeekboyPost Number: 179 Registered: 12-2003 | To all readers: Wow, I missed all the fun. This thread is getting as bad the the Harman Kardon "issues" thread(s) from last year. Interesting though, quality issues bring out the best and the worse in us. Thank you "gentlemen (and ladies)" for keeping this spirited debate clean. |
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Darren Unregistered guest | Holy cow guys - take it easy. First of all I WANT to be a NAD owner. If you read my posts in the AVS forum you'll know that I haven't just read about the 773, that I DID GO to a dealer to buy a T773 but held off (thanks to this forum) because it DID have the hum. So I do have some experience with these receivers. I then went to a second dealer to listen to another 773 thinking perhaps that the first dealer WAS at fault with groung loops or something else. The second dealer didn't have any in stock so I mentioned the potential problem to him. He called me back the next day with a "sure" fix. So I ordered one from him right then and there. From my REPEATED posts (sorry for the inconvenience) I have learned that this fix actually does not work but Oh well I'll get the unit and see for myself. They said it would be in on Friday but it didn't show up so I'm still waiting. Whether this thread was started about the 753, 763, or 773 it does not matter because they are ALL Nad receivers and if one model has the hum then the other models may be prone to it as well. Its not just me complaining about the hum, there are several people that have taken their units back because of it and I think I read perhaps in this thread that one dealer even demanded his whole NAD stock to be replaced because of it. It is because I went and listened to the NAD that I want this receiver. What I don't want is to buy the unit, get it home and find that it is humming and have to take it back and order another one or even worse, forget about the NAD and choose another brand altogether. I would rather ask a few questions first and find out that mabey all you had to do was turn off the TRIGGER IN switch on the back or something stupid like that, and the problem would be solved. The fact is that some units are working fine, and some are not. For those people that have units that are working fine that's great - enjoy. For those people that have taken the time to share their input - thanks. I really appreciate it and have learned a lot. My 773 should be in hopefully on Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday. Does that mean that I can post here without any hassle since I will then actually OWN a Nad? By the way, since it was pointed out earlier, my first name is Darren and my middle name is Lee. I go by either one. Sorry if this offends anyone. |
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Anonymous | Darren, Sorry for the hassle I've given you. Being a NAD owner surely gives you the right to post about it. Make sure and come back with your observations when you get it. I'll tell ya though, your going to love the 773. I can't find one bug in the unit and it sounds unbelievable. I want to give someone at NAD a big pat on the back! |
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Anonymous | Well, a lot can happen in a few hours on a thread, I see. ;-> To be clear, there are multiple "anonymous" posters here. My last post has the stamp, "Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 08:36 pm" and was addressed to the user w/ name Problem. I own a T753 and reported problems in this thread after reading of others that described something similar to what I experienced. At first I thought it was a fan issue and I started a thread on this (https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/11307.html). I documented there that I discovered it was not a fan problem but humm. I took my unit back to my dealer today and ran it through his systems. The humm was there, though not as pronounced; his surrounds were not large speakers but small. Mine are large. In his setup, the humm cannot really be heard until you are within a foot or two of the surround. The store front has higher noise levels because of adjacent rooms demonstrating various theater systems. No amount of soundproofing could completely eleminate that noise. However, at home, when the kids go to bed, it can be quite quiet. The humm can clearly be heard 4-5 feet away from my large speakers. My goal today was to simply determine if it was the unit or something in my setup at the house. The dealer rep confirmed he heard something that should not be there. Again, while not loud, it can be heard, and it is definately not white noise. I will follow-up with my rep early next week on next steps and post back. I will again say that the sound from this unit is fantastic, excepting the quiet humm. And, there is no substitute for a good dealer rep. A number of years ago I had an expensive midi weighted keyboard controller die on me while under warranty. I had a good dealer rep then and was taken care of. That is how I feel now. Hmmm, did I just start another thread? :-) |
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Darren Unregistered guest | Not a problem! |
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Unregistered guest | I have a NAD T753 with hum problems. It's the north american version (120V with a 60HZ NTSC OSD). It's my third one, all exhibit exaclty the same behavior. The humming on the center/rear problem will not be heard with less sensitive speakers since the hum level is independant of the volume level. I "solved" the hum problem by using a Paradigm Reference Center channel, which is fairly insensitive...except I don't like the sound of it and the left rear is still a problem. This is the bug report I sent to the NAD rep for Ontario, Canada: Critical: 1. Buzzing mostly in Center and Surround Left (5.1 setup), present in all modes using DSP except Stereo and EARS (EARS used with analog VCR) Stereo was from analog or Digital input from the DVD Player(Sony DVPS330) Buzzing Frequency changes when OSD background set to On/Off. Problem present even with heavy Power line filtering (separate filtering unit). Center Channel is a Tannoy Revolution Center with Tannoy Revolution R3 mains (all 3 fronts bi-wired) with Cerwin Vega E-705 Rears (5.1 setup). No Sub. Center Channel problem was reproduced at the store with 2 different T753s but was less audible due to background store noise. Speakers used at the store was a Mirage Omni CC and expensive dvd player + cables + filtering. Problem also present in both Rears, pretty audible since Cerwin are quite sensitive. The buzzing sound level does not depend on the master volume setting or channel level settings. The easiest way to recreate the buzzing sound is to start playing any dts/dd movie and press pause, it will be clear on somewhat sensitive speakers (>89db) in a regular household quiet room, in the presence of fan noise at a store or with insensitive speakers, the effect is much less pronounced. We had tried a reset in December using the front panel buttons but had no effect. 2. Hiss (white/pink noise, WGN or whatever it is) in L/R too loud. Quite a bit Louder than T752. 3. Video Sync Jump when changing channels on VCR or Bright to Dark Sudden Change. Very white images can sometimes exhibit same behavior Image resyncs after 0.5 seconds. Composite Video and channel switching supplied by Sony SLV-779HF VCR. TV is RCA 27" 10 year old TV. This problem does not occur when connecting VCR directly to TV or with the T752. Problem also occurs with DVD SVHS video also, when Bright to Dark Sudden Change, like in Concerts flashing lights. TV Monitor Connected through composite output. Tried setting all analog inputs to Off in Setup to avoid floating inputs (as suggested by salesman) but had no effect. Less important: 4. Pre Out/ Main In requires a Male connector that has to go too deep in the female Pre-Out (to go to a outboard amp), otherwise no connection established. Male connector must be long. A 150$ shielded RCA cable picked at random had a too short male connector and could not get any signal, but a cheap 2$ RCA cable had a longer pin. This might be standard, but it just seemed odd to me, first time I had tried it. The T753 manual (on p.15) makes reference to keys (Audio/Video/Digital Audio Selector) that are not present on the T753, and although it's easy, it does not explain how to rename the inputs. So far, my salesman confirmed to NAD the existance of the problem for all the 3 units I've had by testing it in their lab. NAD keeps replacing it...but it's not solving the problem. If anyone experienced these problems and then resolved them, please let me know. Cheers, Gilles Disclaimer : I'm not saying all units have this behavior...just the 3 I've had. Other people may not have (or know about) this problem with their units. |
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Anonymous | Well, I have an update from NAD on my reported humm problam (my past post was Sunday Feb 8, 2004 - 12:57 am). Apologies to those interested for the delay - I was on travel all last week. I've found NAD quite responsive in pursuing this matter. They responded back to my dealer rep w/ a diagnosis and solution by Feb 11. They noted that the problem didn't happen with all receivers but a small minority. To quote NAD, "We have been able to duplicate in the Lab the elevated noise levels on only a few of the T753 samples. This condition seems to be a variable based on the vagaries of the Cirrus Logic Processor and an external causative effect from radiated power supply contamination and other environmental contributors. We Believe, this issue will only affect a small minority of the T753's but, as a preventative measure, NAD has upgraded in production all current T 753's to include a power supply cap that in essence further isolates the processing board from the power supply." I hope to take mine in sometime this week for the modification. More to come .... |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 35 Registered: 12-2003 | Does anyone know whether they've addressed the same complaints on the 773? |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 211 Registered: 12-2003 | Thanks, anonymous. "Radiated power supply contamination" I suppose means that not everyone will experience the problem. We had a suspicion here last year that NAD recievers are unusually sensitive in this regard. Fitting the power supply cap should not be a big job. Good luck. |
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New member Username: Kt1200Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 | What's the verdict on the hiss/white noise issue. My T763 v1.26 doesn't hum, but in a silent room it does have an audible hiss at -74dB. My dealer said this was normal. Can the noise level be that bad? |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 36 Registered: 12-2003 | "Radiated power supply contamination" Sounds like an elaborate term for "electrical interference." |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 217 Registered: 12-2003 | No, I think it is one specific kind of "electrical interference", the one most likely to give constant hum. The AC current in the transformer radiates an electromagnetic field at line frequency. Other sorts of electrical interference are from discharges like in electric motors (food mixers etc) and RF signals such as from mobile phones. AM radio can give you a showcase of audible interference, such as scratching noises from the discharge when light switches are thrown etc. |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 9 Registered: 01-2004 | Hi guys, It took a few weeks but I promised to keep you posted. Just received a new t753 from NAD. The buzz is away. They said is was a production problem in the first series. They could not intercept them in time after they discovered the problem. Problem is now fixed as Anonymous reported earlier. About the hiss. That is still there. I talked to NAD tech support in the Netherlands. They said is was not possible to get rid of the hiss. They tried to design a device without the hiss, but it's almost impossible to get it out (at this price). It could be an internal grounding issue. When I told him my old 304 was silent he said that (ofcourse) that is a totally different amp. The new receivers are quite sofisticated machines, with a lot of internal connections. Also the ventilator runs constantly and it could be possible that causes some disturbance as well. I am not 100% satisfied, but the hiss is probably found in other brands as well in this price segment. (does anyone now if this is fact?). And since you don't hear it when you play music, I stick with this T753 because the overall sound is great. I think we can conclude that NAD found and solved the main problem namely the buzz. Let's hope there are no more hidden bugs or so, although if they appear I am sure NAD is going to solve these problem as well. PS Does anyone have a T753 that is completely silent at -70dB?? |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 218 Registered: 12-2003 | Rob, Thanks for posting back. But, as I said before "if you can hear it, it is a fault". Any amp should be completely silent and generate no signal the speakers reproduce except the programme material from the source. If you put you ear next to the speaker at high dB values then some hiss is allowed, expecially in surround modes. But a hiss you can hear from your listening postion when the programme material is low level is not allowed. In your place, I would now contact NAD at the e-mail address on their web page. It is too easy for a dealer to say "it is not possible". Of course any receiver should be completely silent at -70 dB. My max is + 18 dB and some hiss from the speakers begins to be audible at about +12 (surround) or + 15 (stereo). This is an older model (T 760). I never play real signals at those levels so I regard the noise level as acceptable. The signal-to-noise ratio of your receiver cannot possiblyt be equal to the published specification. If the dealer does not care, NAD will want to know about that, too. |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 10 Registered: 01-2004 | Hi John, Thanks for your reaction. It was not (only) the dealer that said the hiss was normal, it was the technician at NAD who said that. Luckily the hiss is only heard to about 3-4 ft from the speaker, and my listening position is about 10 ft away. I agree with you that this hiss shouldn't be there, as my old 304/902 and 910 didn't have it but I am not sure what to do now. |
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Bronze Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 12 Registered: 02-2004 | Rob, I auditioned the 562 and 563 and they are excellent receivers. The dealers are a father & son combo and I questioned them seperately on some of the NAD issues. There was a lot of discrepencies between what each said so their dishonesty turned me to Marantz which I love except that its runs hot at times - an issue fixed with a small 12 volt fan. I'm not critising NAD - they are excellent - any highly technical device no matter the brand will always have a problem here and there, but as a consumer, you have the right to get what you pay for. I for one would not put up with any noise. If others have units with no noise at all as stated within this forum - then your unit has a fault - so what you're hearing are excuses. If it was me, I would demand replacements until I got satisfaction. It that didn't work, I would demand a refund and if denied, threaten to or in fact contact your local consumer rights group. We spend good money and deserve products that work 100% anything less is not good enough. I guess you have to decide if it's worth the hassle. |
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New member Username: TopetiPost Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | Hello Everybody, I am happy that i found this topic. I want to buy an AV Receiver. My friends told me, that the NAD is very good receiver in stereo, but they never heard any NAD AV receiver. Who can tell me the difference between the NAD and the other AV receivers (Denon, H/K, Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha)? I am very disappointed that the NAD has got problem with the hissing and humming, buzzing  I hope the NAD will be correct their mistake with a perfect firmware. ps: Is the NAD good choice for disco sound? Thx for your help |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bPost Number: 17 Registered: 12-2003 | Hi All, I rarely post on this board, but I have been fooling around with audio gear for 34 years. I know there is nothing more frustrating than making a purchse, bringing it home, to find the unit defective. To me a defective unit is going to be bad right out of the box, or shortly thereafter. What I have done for years (if you are buying from a dealer) is ask him to sell you his demo unit in his display rack. It may be a little dusty, but you know it works. May even be able to save a couple of dollars. Hope this helps..... Rick |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 38 Registered: 12-2003 | "What I have done for years (if you are buying from a dealer) is ask him to sell you his demo unit in his display rack." If my product turns out to be defective, I take it back and get a replacement or a refund. Quality in many industries has been slipping as companies cut more and more corners in order to improve profitability. However, they will bear the burden of their poor quality, not I. |
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bone Unregistered guest | Rick Barnes, What's your opinion on the hiss being acceptable with the NAD's? I'd be interested to hear if this sounds right to you. Thanks |
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Darren Unregistered guest | Still waiting for my T773 to arrive. I ordered it well over two weeks ago so I'm hoping it comes in soon. That's great news that NAD is upgrading all of the T753 units now in production with the power supply cap. Has anyone heard yet if they plan on doing the same for the T773's? |
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bone Unregistered guest | If it's taking two weeks I'll bet it's getting the mod. My 773 was supposed to take 3 days and it has been 10. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 219 Registered: 12-2003 | Rob, There are published signal-to-noise ratios and the first thing the technical services of a dealer or distributor must do is establish whether these meet the specification for your receiver. From what you say, they do not; you have an unacceptably high noise level. In your place I would e-mail webmaster@nadelectronics.com and explain the position of the distributor. The distributor did not pay good money for the receiver, and does not have to listen to it. The quality of regional distributors varies. I quote this forum, and received helpful replies, last November, amonsgt which:- "When people experience problems with their units, they are always best to contact us directly so that we may assist them. " AND "Unfortunately, we are in the hands of our distributors, but every customers experiences may be different. Some of the postings in this particular chat room are old and out of date, (May 2003), and we have fixes for the issues that have been raised. Please be assure that NAD always looks after its customers and our specs reflect the most honest view of power of any manufacturer in the industry. " I got wonderful technical advice, eventually, direct from the tech department of my regional distributor, and this was for a model long out of warranty. Just perisist! |
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Bronze Member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 11 Registered: 01-2004 | Hi John, I just talked to a guy from customer services from NAD Benelux. He said that the hiss is normal. It is the result of the choices they made in designing the AV Receivers. In order to get the good HiFi sound a small part of the unit works analog. A result is a hiss on lower volume. Other brands choose for a complete digital processing, which result in lesser sound quality overall. He said al receivers from T743 up to T773 have the same issue and that it is not a fault in the unit. Now I have a difficult situation. If I want to return the unit with this complaint, the dealer has the backup from NAD that this is normal. And even if he is prepared to take it back, what receiver to buy when I want another brand. I am considering new speakers from The Pied Piper (a dutch speaker manufacturor who builts fantastic speakers at unbelievable prices = 1720 euro a pair, if interested www.thepiedpiper.nl in Dutch only) and the builder of those speakers informed me about Cambridge Audio, who is releasing an AV receiver shortly, at about 750 euro. Has anyone info on that receiver? |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 39 Registered: 12-2003 | "In order to get the good HiFi sound a small part of the unit works analog... Other brands choose for a complete digital processing, which result in lesser sound quality overall" That sounds kind of odd... |
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Bronze Member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 12 Registered: 01-2004 | I agree with you though I'm not sure I translated it correctly (not native english speaker :-) but in context that was wat he said. I don't know what to do with this reaction from NAD. I hope to get some feedback from other forum users. |
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New member Username: TopetiPost Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004 | Hi John, "I just talked to a guy from customer services from NAD Benelux. He said that the hiss is normal... He said all receivers from T743 up to T773 have the same issue and that it is not a fault in the unit." I do not want to beleive this! Awful |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bPost Number: 18 Registered: 12-2003 | bone, Any noise (clicks, buzz, hum, or hiss) is not acceptable. If everyhing is wired up and properly grounded, you should have complete silence. I am sorry to hear that NAD is having a firmware problem in the recent past. Nad has always made fine gear. I have always found them to be at the head of the pack -in terms of sonics in their class/price range. Rick Darryl, My post was not to condone poor QC-just one way not to bring home defective gear. Rick |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 222 Registered: 12-2003 | Rob, With all respect, I think the guy from customer services from NAD Benelux is talking total nonsense. You will be doing a lot of people a favour if you contact NAD directly. You have an NAD T753. I have the specifications for the T743 and T773 at hand. Signal/noise ratio; ref rated power 8 Ohms T743: >96dB T773: >90dB If you are hearing hiss at the level of a soft whisper, it is noise at a level of not less than about 20 dB. At a S/N of 90 dB you should hear no noise at all, only signal. Now I am not completely sure how to do this, but SPL in dB is a logarithmic scale and I think you can therefore just subtract the hiss level from those figures. Then the real minimum S/N for the T773 comes down to 70 dB (90 - 20 = 70) - not as specified. And that is with reference rated power, which for your model 6 x 70 W. That represents extremely loud programme material. If you get that hiss, just the same, at lower listening levels, then the S/N plummets and must go way below 50 dB at moderate volumes. Cheap analogue cassette players etc. can do better than that. Your receiver does not meet the advertised specification. There should be no audible noise. Least of all from the analogue amplifier stage. Of course "part of the receiver works analog"! It all of it, except the digital inputs and the DSP. That is true of all conventional receivers, and is completely irrelevant. When audio was purely analog there was no audible hiss from NAD amps or any other quality brand. That is the kind of distributor NAD does not need. If the guy in NAD Benelux is correct, then no-one in his right mind would buy an NAD , because, the S/N ratios have gone down to unacceptable values in current models (my 4-yr-old receiver model T760 generates no audible hiss or hum at all and the spec figure is 80 dB). The bad reputation generated is another reason you should contact NAD directly. I recommend you refer them to this thread. By the way your written English is excellent in my opinion (and it is my "mother tongue"); much better than very many native-English speaking posters here. Do not let that be an obstacle to e-mailing NAD in Canada or wherever. Saying "It is a fault; we will fix it" is admitting a quality control issue. Saying "Tough luck: that is how they are, and you will have to learn to live with it" is outrageous. Really. Such a guy is putting the brand down, and losing customers for NAD. If he is right, never even think of getting an NAD receiver. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyPost Number: 109 Registered: 12-2003 | John A., We haven't spoken in awhile...I hope all is well. I haven't entered into these "NAD humming" threads yet as I have heard nothing from my unit and thus have had very little to contribute to the discussion. As one of the biggest NAD proponents on this board, I must unfortunately agree with what you have stated so often...that any hum/hiss is unacceptable. If this noise was coming from a bargain basement HTIB from Wal-Mart, I might agree that the problem should be accepted, but not from such a high performance item as an NAD receiver. I can forgive some of the hum/hiss problems that NAD has been having lately since the new line just came out. Any new line, regardless of brand, is going to have its problems. And so far, NAD has admitted that there is a problem and has worked to correct it. I am going to wager a guess that this supposed customer service guy at NAD Benelux is either misinformed or ignorant. I think all of the numerous postings by those who have had very positive experiences with the new 7x3 line (Hawk included) prove that this customer service rep must be living in his own little world. Like you said John, if his words were correct, no one would buy an NAD product and the company would be out of business by now. Rob, I agree with John. Write NAD directly and give them a link to this thread. Let them know that this is unacceptable to you. |
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bone Unregistered guest | this thread is starting to load really slooooow thanks to everyone for the help so far for us newbs. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 227 Registered: 12-2003 | Thanks, Johnny! All sensible people will agree. The question from Rob's point of view is, I suppose "Is it worth the hassle?" NAD has an excellent reputation for responding directly to individual customers, and I can vouch for that, personally. But penetrating the regional customer services departments can take some effort, let alone dealers, and those are the first places people go, reasonably enough. BTW Hawk has not tried his T753 in surround mode, yet, as far as I know. Fingers crossed. A long tale of customer service experience from Hawk would be something to read, but I would not wish the experience on him, or anyone! |
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Unregistered guest | I owned an NAD T763 for about 2 months before returning it because of bugs. The bugs I encountered were as follows: During CD Optical input listening in Ears mode a crackling was heard in the center and right front speaker. Whilst the onscreen display was on a hiss on the rear left speaker. Granted the amplifier stage in the T763 is very respectable but I must admit the internal Dacs sound horrible. I had my unit connected to a Denon DVD-1600 DVD player, both with the Optical and 5.1 Analog connectiond for DVD-audio. Bare in mind that the Denon has built in Dolby and DTS decoding so I compared the decoding of the Denon and the NAD. It was no contest !! the Denon absolutely KILLED the Nad. I was very dissapointed and this was yet another for my return of the unit. Now for the good news, I purchased a Yamaha RX-v2400 receiver and am using it as a pre-amp ONLY hooked up to an ATlantic Technology A-2000 7 channel amp. (look it up it's a powerhouse) MY GOD this duo sounds amazing. Bottom line is the NAD really is not all it's hyped up to be and I am very dissapointed in the product. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 13 Registered: 01-2004 | Hi guys Thanks for all the support. I called the dealer today. They are really great guys (Hobo Hifi for the dutch readers). They will call NAD next week about this strange reaction. I'll wait for that before taking action to NAD in Canada. They also offered to exchange for a different brand. They offered to try a Denon for a few days. Or does anyone have a better idea. Still.. my NAD sounds great if only this hiss wasn't there. And as stated is it worth the hassle. Two years ago I bought a 2 year old Renault Espace. In the audiosystem is an irritant beep that you here at low (or no) volumes (sounds familiar?) They all hear it at the garage, but after exchanging the complete amp, new leads to the speaker they still can't solve it. I still own the car and sometimes at low volumes, when the engine is off I can still get angry that they did not find it, but it's a fine car that drives smoothly so I keep it in spite of that beep (and of course a new Espace is too expensive:-) ) But I'm getting off topic right now, it was just to put things in a different perspective. I'm just one of those guys who have all the (un) luck. To be continued... |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 242 Registered: 12-2003 | I had the same problem with the audio on a Renault Espace. Great car, otherwise. I forget the maker of the audio system, maybe it was Philips. In that case, I concluded it really was a design problem. I'd bought it new and the beep was there from the start. Seems you are doing Hobo Hifi a favour, too! Keep us posted, Rob. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 244 Registered: 12-2003 | This has been an active thread, but I have just noticed a very polite and interesting post back on January 08 from Dusko Misljencevic. Dusko is interested in upgrading from stereo with a new receiver (which?) and retaining Mission speakers. The DVD-A/SACD question has been asked before and I personally go for DVD-A for several reasons. If you are still reading, Dusko, I apologise for not responding, I was not visiting regularly at that time. You might be interested in the thread SACD or DVD-A - which way will the industry go?. |
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New member Username: ThearthurclonePost Number: 9 Registered: 02-2004 | i visited a shop today and listened to a nad t763 for a while. it was in a decent listening room and there was very little ambient noise in the room. we listened to tracks from 2 cds (stereo and plii music modes) and bits from two movies. i was pretty pleased with the nad. i was purposefully listening for any white noise, buzz, hum...etc...and didn't hear any. i'm overly sensitive to such noises and it would drive me crazy to get a unit that 'hissed'. i kept getting up at intervals and listening to the unit itself (for fan noise), and turning the volume up and down to listen for crackles and/or hiss from the speakers. it was a very quiet experience. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 14 Registered: 01-2004 | thanks thearthurclone. This helps to keep persisting, there are units which are ok. My fans can be heared as well. John A.: the audio is Pioneer but specially modified for Renault. The problem is not the Pioneer. It probably comes from the airco unit which is switched on after you turn the key twice, that is not sufficiently isolated. But which... and how to solve that. |
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Bronze Member Username: Gatt767Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2004 | Savvas, can't understand how the CRYSTAL DSP installed in the NAD receivers is being superseded by the internal DAcs of a DVD Player. |
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New member Username: LarsaPost Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | Thought I should share my ongoing story too. I returned my T753 on saturday after having used it for a month. I had the hiss and hum problems, as discussed by others above. I had bought the first T753 my dealer got in store as an upgrade for a T752 that turned out to have a dead front channel when I tried to hook it up at home (it was not dead when testing it in store the day before, so so much for testing your equipment at the dealer's ;). I didn't notice the hiss much in the beginning which is why it took me a month to return it. The center and front speakers were bought brand new together with the receiver (B&W 300 series) - could it be that the hiss became more apparent as the speakers were being "driven in"? The surround L/R low-frequent hum was also something I didn't notice at first, but after the hiss problem started becoming annoying I could also easily hear it when being 50+ cm away, which happens to be the distance to the speakers from the edge seats on my sofa. I don't sit there often, but when I have friends over, someone does. I tried a lot of things to try to rule out external source interference - disconnected the sub, disconnected the TV and VCR, no video in/out of the receiver at all and only coaxial in from my NAD T532. Also tried firmware resets, I tried removing lamps, I alternately flipped power sockets 180 degrees, all to no avail. The hiss was audible (independent of volume) in my listening position when playing a Dolby Digital DVD and putting the DVD player on pause. I also had a rolling video problem. When changing channels on my VCR it would take a second before the image stabilized (it doesn't sound long, but it is), and the picture could also roll on sudden light-intensity changes, like lightning and explosions, and I am a person who really enjoys a good action or horror flick Anyways, I returned it quite late on saturday, and my dealer wanted to do some local testing this morning since this was the first 753 to be returned with the 752 symptoms. I heard back from her today, and the conclusion was that they would take it in return and give me a new one tomorrow when they get new ones in store. I had been dreading going about returning it for a week or so now since I decided to do it, but I had nothing to worry about. No waiting for repairs (which apparently can take a long time with NAD A/V receivers). No "this noise is to be expected". I'm disappointed that NAD hadn't gotten the 752 problems fixed from the start, but I have had the 753 long enough to know that with those problems weeded out, it will be a love affair to remember. But most importantly, I'm really happy about my dealer (HIFI-Klubben, Trondheim, Norway) who has helped me out twice now with no fuss. I'm sure I'm going to end up a satisfied NAD customer, eventually. Third time's a charm, isn't that the saying? I'll keep you posted... Lars J |
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New member Username: Hess993Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004 | I ended up buying a NAD T763 even though I was concerned about the noise/hum problem being discussed on this group. I had a NAD 20 years ago and was very happy with it. I matched the T763 with Linn Katan L/R and surround, Linn Trikan center, and Linn Sizmik 10.25 sub. I hooked it up this weekend and watched the "Hell Unleashed" scene in Gladiator. The sound was incredible. I was pleased with the sound when I played Miles Davis Kind of Blue in EARS mode also. I wanted to see if the T763 had noise when the movie was paused. I could hear slight noise in the L/R channels if I put my ear directly on the speaker, but I couldn't hear it 2 feet away, and not in any of the other speakers. I don't know if this is the noise everyone is talking about or not, but I can't hear it unless I'm right on the speaker. I don't think I even would have noticed it had I not been reading this forum. Do I have a bad NAD also? |
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Anonymous | Looks like there will be alot of factory reconditioned NAD T7X3's coming on the market around April or May. It really is a shame that NAD cannot get there sh.i.t together. |
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Anonymous | Hess, if you can't hear it from the listening position your fine. JUST MAKE SURE. It too me several days and the right sources to hear it. Mainly any quiet scenes. Anon, Yes! I've donated two 773's for refurb. |
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two_cents Unregistered guest | This is a really sad thread for NAD owners. I'm posting to report that not all NAD receivers have the hum/hiss issue. I've been listening to the modest T743 for the past few weeks and don't hear anything I'm not supposed to hear. Even with my ears to the speaker. Dead silence. One reason I bought the T743 instead of a refurbished T752 for the same price is all the problems posted in this forum about the T752, which apparently haven't been totally resolved. Either the T74x series suffers less trouble or there aren't that many owners who participate in this forum. NAD QC needs to get on the ball if they want to build their reputation as a high end AV brand. |
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New member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004 | OK. I have a T773 that I've had for about 3 weeks now. I read some posts here that the humm/hiss problem was when a DVD was paused with a digital audio feed (not sure if that was the only mode but was what I recall a few weeks back). So I checked my unit then and could only hear a slight hiss with my ear right up to the front speaker. Stand right in front of the speaker and I couldn't hear anything. Now after reading many of these posts I have been playing around a little more. I turned 773 on with NO inputs at all active (everything connected to it off) and could hear a hiss, again with my ear up to the speaker. Then I sit in my listening position and hear nothing BUT if I crank the volume up the hiss becomes incrementally more and more audible as the volume increases. At 0 db I can hear it from my listening position (again, nothing powered up except the amp). At about -10 db I can't really hear it. Also, when I put my ear up to the speaker and increase the volume, as the volume approaches 0 db the hiss does become more like a humm. Does this sound like the symptoms of the problem being discussed here? Hearing the T743 dead calm with no noise and other complaints here makes me concerned about this. I probably wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't read these threads and played around with it. I recall my Yamaha RX-V2092 which I used to have would have an audible hiss throughout the room when nothing was playing...not that that was right either. Appreciate some advice as to wether I should be concerned here or not. Thanks for everybody's participation in this thread with these issues. |
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Darren Unregistered guest | JDG: I don't think that what you're hearing is the same as the experience I had when I went to audition a T773. The one I listened to was dead silent with the volume cranked all the way off to 00. As soon as you gave it ANY volume at all ( I think it was -74 db ) there could be heard a distinct humm, buzz, or something of that nature from the listening position. As I recall I listened most closely to the surrounds and it was really noticeable. This noise did not get any louder when the volume was increased, but it was definitely there the minute you gave the speakers ANY power at all ( again -74 db ? ) |
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Anonymous | Darren is on the money. One click of the volume is all it takes to produce it. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 253 Registered: 12-2003 | Hess, Re. your post on Feb 23, what a great system you have! Someone was asking on "Speakers" or "Home Theater" about Linn for surround sound. Darren, Anonymous, JDG. The symptoms you describe are a fault - either in design or production. two_cents. I agree. I have never read anything here but praise for the T742 or T743. NAD must surely pay attention to this one. The only redeeming feature is their high standard of customer service, but they surely cannot take back every single T773 except at consdierable cost. |
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New member Username: Hess993Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | Yes. I'm very pleased with the NAD/Linn combination. I am still somewhat paranoid about this noise/hum issue but I don't think I am experiencing the same symptoms as Air Force One and some of the other members. My T763 behaves like JDG's. I can never hear anything from my listening position when the dvd is paused. I do have 2 questions someone might help me with: 1. When measuring channel levels with a SPL meter, the T763 manual says all channels should measure 75db from the listening position. What volume should the T763 be set to before initiating measurements? Should the sub also be set at 75db? 2. I have no filtering on the Linn Sizmik sub. How do I determine what crossover freq should I set in the T763? My L/R and surround are Katans, so I have them set to Small. |
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New member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 6 Registered: 02-2004 | John A, In the other thread on this I was somewhat comforted by feedback that I didn't have a unit with the "bug". Are you saying you think this is a different fault than some others have described or something that is inherent to all T7x3 models? Something worthy to carry forward to NAD and my dealer to log as an issue or not worthwhile as I wouldn't lose the problem regardless? How do I measure the S/N ratio which you quoted to know where my unit falls within (or out of) the spec? Just looking for some expertise and insight. I appreciate the help. |
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New member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | Hess, let me take a stab at this because I have recently tried this. For the spl meter, you choose one of your speakers as the reference. I would presume it would be the left front as that is the first one checked. Set the spl for 75 or with the radio shack one I have I set it for 70 and point it up. Get the first test tone and increase the volume on the receiver until the meter reads 75. Then test the other speakers and adjust using the OSD or the channel levels until all speakers including subwoofer equal more or less 75. So the first left front reference speaker is set for a zero gain. My understanding is that this is one way of doing it. Then after that, test out various DVDs and CDs to see if the results work and/or need to be tweaked. Use DVDs and CDs which make the system work and maybe have some quiet points too. As for the subwoofer, a lot depends on the equipment you have. Probably start in the area for crossover of 80 or 120 and just experiment down until you have what you think you have the best sound. My main speakers are supposed to go to about 47 but I experimented and found it sounded better if I set them as large. My speakers excel for my tastes in the midrange so I want to keep them there. My sub is pretty pitiful and so I ended up having to set the crossover at 40 or I get clapping. I would like to get a better sub but $ and space are problems. I will probably (if I can find the space) go to an SVS sub. I was able to audition a B & W sub and BOY did it make a difference. There was really no space for it though. Hope this helps. |
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New member Username: LyonsPost Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | Message to all-- My name is Dan Lyons and I am a reporter at Forbes magazine. I'm working on a story about NAD and would like to hear from customers about their experiences with NAD gear. Anyone who would like to tell their story can reach me by phone at 781 391 7849 or by email at dlyons@forbes.com. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 258 Registered: 12-2003 | JDG, One of the first thing the service manual gives dealers and technical departments is the S/N values to check the performance against the specification. I think you need diagnostic equipment to do it properly. My point is, if you can HEAR any noise generated by the receiver/amp itself at normal listening levels, it is an issue, and that unit is almost certainly not up to specification. Unless it is a cr*p make. Which NAD isn't. |
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Darren Unregistered guest | Anonymous who posted on Feb. 17,2004 - 09:09 pm : You posted about the power supply cap upgrade for the T753 receivers. You said that you were going to take yours in for the modification and I was just wondering if you did get a chance to do that and if so what were the results? Is the humm gone? Just curious. |
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New member Username: Savvas0711Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | To answer Roberts question: Savvas, can't understand how the CRYSTAL DSP installed in the NAD receivers is being superseded by the internal DAcs of a DVD Player. Well, if you use a digital connection from the DVD player then it's the receiver that is doing all the processing. However, if you use the 5.1 channel analog inputs on the receiver you are using the internal processing of the DVD player. In this case the Denon DVD-1600 can internally process DD, DTS and (DVD-Audio(of which only the DVD can process). At this juncture it's where the Denon dacs and processor are superior to the NAD's. |
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Anonymous | Darren, I had hoped to get the upgrade done before now. However, my job has required some unexpected travel these past few weeks. I am on travel now. I have not forgotten about the need to post back. Keep pinging from time to time. I hope to have done perhaps within a week. |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | Hello guys, The saga continues. You'll remember I got my third T753 10 days ago with no hum but still with a hiss. Two days ago I was back were we started... a beep in the center channel came up on the digital input. I called the dealer and they offered immediately to replace it. I got my fourth unit today and it was defect also. I'm sure this one was not upgraded yet. I am going to bring it back next week and I think I will wait for the next series hopely without the problems. They offered to go for a different brand, but I'm convinced that they will solve the problem in the end. What do you think John, I heard there were problems with some units in the beginning with the 7x2 series, were they solved in the end? Is there anyone who owns a T753/763/773 without problems and if so, could you tell me what serial number you have? I have had serial numbers under the R3YT75300900. If upgrading to T763 or T773 solves the problem I will consider to do so. Thanks in advance |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | Hi Rob and all, Ok I have posted this one: after 3 weeks with my NAD T773, and Snell speakers. First let me descried the system: NAD T773 Speakers: 2 Front Snell E.5mk2 Slim Floorstanding System, center Snell CR.5mk2 Center Channel, and srrund Snell SR.5 Full-Range Surroundas well. Subwoofer: NOVA 10. I have connected the receiver to Pioneer 636 DVD by using optical cable, S-Video from the DVD to the receiver and another S- Video cable from the receiver to the TV. I have set up the system to matrix 7.1 with Center and surround +12 db and front speakers to + 7 db. The Subwoofer is ~ at 60 Hz. For Movie I use the same set up as well. With this, and after ~ 3 weeks since I received my HT system, I can summary my experience as that system exceeds my expectations. The sound is clear and provides the right environment for movies or for music. The receiver with this set of speakers delivers music through MATRIX 7.1 surround mode in high level of quality, and first time I can say that I really can feel the music and the sound through the system in the room as a live music. And I impress with the deep details of the output sound. It is like you in a concert and one-person play guitar on one side of the room and on the center side, the singer is singing a song, and on the other side you have the nice soft dram with gentle saxophone and light piano. And you can clearly hear the detailed music surrounding you from all the direction. NEO 6 Music mode is also amazing for music lessening as well as extended stereo. Now, I have read a lot through this forum about the humm, hizz, and other noise issues, with NAD receivers. Al in all, I have checked my system many times, by playing songs, or movies in several modes, and from 1 feet I could not hear any noise. When I came closer to the speakers and put my ear on the front speakers, I can hear noise in a very low level, and this is just when I pause movie, not in any music mode. I went to several dealers, to check other receivers (DENON, Rotel, Yamaha and HK), and in all of them I can hear the same noise level as with the NAD. My conclusion is that this noise is a background one, and it appears in all receivers, and without stop the movie, and put your ear on the speaker you can't hear it at all. Anyway, wanted to share with you my experience with my system. I will be glad to answer further question. Daniel |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherPost Number: 3 Registered: 02-2004 | Thanks Daniel, I think I will listen to the T773 in the shop next week. If it doesn't humm or hiss, I concider an upgrade if they 'gonna make me an offer I cannot refuse'... |
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Anonymous | My buzzing 773's serial #'s were 487 relaced by 470, both very early models and maybe why they weren't fixed. Strange, being 4 months since the 773 release however. I couldn't afford to wait around and see if they'd fix em though. I figure they will..........hopefully.........eventually. |
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Anonymous | They sell fewer 773's vs. 753's. You'll likely end up with an even newer 773 than 753. And more likely to still contain the hum. |
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New member Username: CargoilPost Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 | It still amazes me that every on this site still love NAD and yet almost every post is one problem after another. It's almost if youwant to buy NAD the problems are to be expected and must be part of mystique? |
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Anonymous | Darren, FYI, I took my 753 to my dealer today. I expect pickup will be sometime in the middle of the week. I have to drive ~30-45 minutes to get there. |
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New member Username: CargoilPost Number: 10 Registered: 12-2003 | Sorry about not proofing my comments. I just feel that there are so many good receivers out there today, even ones that at one time were not considered class products have come a long way and you don't have to drive 50 miles to get them repaired or box them up and send them back to your on line store. In fact they seem to me not to NEED repair like the NAD's do. However, every time I hear some poor guy ask for a recommendation it's always NAD. Maybe a Marantz here and there. I know Marantz once was a great receiver but that was years ago. I'm not sure there R&D has been keeping up with times. It would be very hard for me to recommend a product as touchy as the NAD seems to be. I want something I put in my entertainment center one time and not have to worry about it again. |
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Anonymous | Johnnb, I agree. I almost wonder whether this place is infested with NAD salesmen. |
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Darren Unregistered guest | In case anyone is interested, To quote NAD: The T753 had a cap added to decouple a power supply line. The T773 doesn't have that problem, and therefore doesn't need a cap. So it looks like only the T753 line of receivers got the upgraded modification of the power supply cap. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 276 Registered: 12-2003 | Rob, Returning to you post on Feb 28, I spoke on the phone before Christmas with a very knowledgable guy in the technical services of my regional distributor. He told me there was a known issue then with early model T752s, which has to do with the DSP software which NAD has outsourced. Their policy was to fix it free whenever a unit was brought back, but not to do a recall. The symptoms were well documented on this forum last year. One interesting thread was NAD 752 V1.22 what are the improvements?. The author, TC Smith, was very informed and tenacious, and eventually got an almost unbelievable standard of service, including getting his unit picked up personally at an airport, so it would be fixed on his return to Canada. The current reports on the T753 seem to present a consistent picture, but I do not think it is exactly the same problem, and has instead to do with unusual sensitivity to interference from electromagnetic fields. One of the difficulties I found with this (from my own unit, an earlier model) is that once the hum has been induced, it stays, even if the original source, in my case a like a dodgy uplight rheostat, has been switched off. To get rid of this sort of hum, you have to reboot the DSP. And then not switch on the source of interference again. This can make diagnosis of the source extremely difficult. You can take the receiver back to the dealer, still with the hum you induced in your room at home. This suggests to me that dealers with all their NAD receivers with the same problem may have their own source of interference in the showroom. So, not everyone will experience the problem, even if they have a unit with original power supply cap. So NAD's policy is all they can do, really: upgrade the cap for models in production, and change it free whenever a customer checks in with the problem. If people don't complain, they presumably don't have the problem, for one reason or another. For the customer/owner, the moral is clear. If you are not satisfied, take it back. Neither the manufacturer nor the dealer can know how good is your domestic electricity supply. Yes, Johnb and Anon., the problem should not be there in the first place. But it was clearly unforeseen by the manufacturer, and they seem to be doing all anyone could possibly do under the circumstances to address the issue. |
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New member Username: SylvainPost Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 | Hi, I am writing to report a video switching problem with the T753. I did not experience the hum at all, and am very happy with the audio perfomance. However, the video switching is reallysub par: 1- The color decoder pushes red colors, making yellow pink. Adjusting Tint and color on my TV with a calibration DVD does nto fix the problem completely. 2- There is a sync problem, when input image is really bright. The image clips and rolls for a bit (maybe 1-2s) before it stabilizes... If anybody has experienced this and NAD has not addressed their problem, then I would like to know. If NAD isn't willing to fix the problem I will switch to a Rotel receiver. -S |
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Anonymous | Sylvain Bouix, I had a T753 before and my unit had the exact same problem as yours. I got mine replaced, I told them I wanted to add the difference and get the T763 instead and this model you can also upgrade from your PC. My new T763 is wonderful and the video is twice as good as my old T761 and T753. And I can also report it's no HUM or HIS problem on my unit at all, I think a lot of people have cable interference periods. |
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New member Username: SylvainPost Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004 | I don't have any hiss or hum. However, the video problem is disconcerting. It is the third receiver I try and they all present the same problem. NAD should fix this, not make me buy a more expensive unit. Well, at least it's good to know the T763 works... -S |
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Unregistered guest | Hi. I currently own a NAD T752 that had to be taken into the shop 3 times. Once for the volume erratically raising and lowering, and twice for channels going dead (once the sub, once the rear right). It is currently still in the shop for service. The only thing i noticed was that the unit runs REALLY hot. Much hotter than my previous Denon model. I know that the model number in question is the T753, with newer heat distribution. But does it really run cooler than the 752? I am no expert in engineering, but is it possible that the problem that people are experiencing with buzz would be because the unit runs so hot, that it is overheating certain things inside the chassis that affect the sound (e.g. my surround channel going dead)? I am concerned because i am about done with my 752. I either want to upgrade to the 753, or get a Denon AVR-3803 which is HUGELY popular, and very highly recommended. I am also told that Denon products use Burr-Brown DAC's instead of Crystal, and are higher quality. I know that on my NAD 752, i can't use a digital cable for my CD player because there is a lag time where the first second of music is cut off while the receiver looks for a signal. So, i have to use analog L/R cables for CD. I never had that problem with my Denon 1802 a couple years ago. At the same time, i don't want to lose musical quality by switching to Denon. Anyhow, any insight into all this would be helpful. Feel free to email me privately, as well. - Paul |
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Anonymous | Paul, The T753 does have a significantly different heat management subsystem. Rather than invoking the fans when heat reaches some threshold, the fans run continuously but at low speeds. I had a T752 for a few weeks and noticed it ran at temperatures higher than I now see in the T753. Any added noise from continuously running fans is negligible and far less than the noise coming from the T752 when the fans kicked in. The hum/buzz problem is something different, as was reported earlier in the thread (see my post on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 08:54 pm). I hope to pick mine up from the shop today, though it may have to wait until the weekend. (Darren, I'll post back here as soon as I have something to report.) |
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New member Username: JeffmPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-04 | Hello....well I have been trying very hard to convince myself to buy a NAD. Just made up my mine after downloading the manual for the T753 off there site. Page 14 caught my eye. You know... the section titled "Dealing with Noise and Hum" ..........How mamy other manuals have you seen with this topic...I thing NAD is trying to tell us something......Hummmmmm |
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New member Username: Gatt767Malta Post Number: 7 Registered: Feb-04 | Not at all, even other brands suffer from Hum. Even thousands of pounds computers equipment, suffer from poorly laid out electrical installation, interferences etc. So what's the deal, if NAD is trying to help us out in something that can interfere with its product? Within my T762 manual, Hum is also mentioned, but it does not mean that I will hear any Hum, infact I do not hear anything as my set-up is correctly installed! |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 338 Registered: Dec-03 | Jeff, Hum is always a possible problem with audio, especially multichannel audio. NAD is helping the customer with a section on hum and what do do about it. That's a whole lot better than pretending the problem does not exist, or pretending that all its products are perfect. When my daughter was very small she was frightened that we were going to have a house fire, because I installed a smoke alarm and explained what it was for. Seems to me that is about as sensible as concluding a make has special problems with hum because the manual describes what to do about it. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 339 Registered: Dec-03 | This issue has also come up on Looking for opinions on NAD AV receivers Anonymous February 17:- You said you would report back.Please do. It would be interesting to know what happened! |
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New member Username: JeffmPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-04 | I have been reading as much as I can about AV receivers in the last few weeks. I've have been away from the audio scene for a while, so like I do for everything ..I research the crap out of it. I'm shopping for a receiver to make 4 Magnepan MMG-w's sing. The NAD posts have caught my eye. The loyalty towards NAD sound is amazing but as a potential new customer to NAD the issues I'm reading are making me think "don't buy one...its not worth the hassles if there is a issue". I went to the only local place that sells NAD to hear this warm rich sound (Fidelis A/V in Salem ,NH) after waiting for 25 minutes to talk to the only salesperson...I was not able to hear anything because of remodeling. He stated I will not have any problems with a 753 and if I do... I have 7 days to return it. I'm seeing posts of problems which need NAD attention after a month or two...what do you do then? Ship it out to NAD and wait? I really need to go listen to this unit to really see what all the loyalty is about. The other receiver on my list is the Yammie VX-V2400. After reading the review over at Audioholics it hard to think I could go wrong with that one. TO NAD or not to NAD....dam why does this have to be so hard of a decision...... |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 346 Registered: Dec-03 | There is a knowledgable writer on this forum who goes under the name "Hawk", and who speaks particularly highly of the NAD/Magnepan combination, as I recall. I understand that MMGs are 4 Ohm speakers and NAD receivers have absolutely no problem with that, unlike some other makes. I think 7-days "return if not satisfied for any reason" is something, but not really so generous. But that is not a warranty: if the unit become defective, you should get free repair or replacement for 1-2 years. That will include all the stuff you may reasonably worry about from what you read here. Hum is a fault. Simple as that! |
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Bronze Member Username: CargoilSan Diego, Ca US Post Number: 16 Registered: Dec-03 | Is the sound so much better that it's worth taking a chance on all the different problems I see with NAD. I can't believe there are no receivers you can buy in that price range that don't have a sound at least close to NAD without all the headaches. Just the fact you can take a receiver back to a local dealer has to be worth something. I live in the San Diego area and still have to drive 40 miles to even listen to one. Then they don't sell the other gear I'm comparing it to. I really am glad to see some of the other threads saying it's time to get off the NAD band wagon and lets start really helping each other compare products. As I said on a prior post I just purchased a Denon 3805. I repeat just bought. I love it so far and it was very easy to hook up and worked perfectly the first time I turned it on. What the future holds who knows. I do know if anything happens I can take to my dealer 4 miles from my house. I guess I'm different in the fact I don't buy anything thinking it's worth having to repair it or return it, no matter how great the sound is. When it's not working none of them sound good. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 59 Registered: Feb-04 | Jeff M, Keep your options open. Here's my opinion for you, same topic different thread here... https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/12946.html Good luck. |
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Anonymous | I'm the anonymous poster from Feb 17. It has taken a bit longer work my T753 hum problem. I've had unexpected travel and need to coordinate my trips to the audio shop with other family obligations since the store is across town. My unit is being replaced. NAD has already shipped it and it should arrive tomorrow or Friday. It is supposed to have the modification already done. I'll be testing it this weekend. Well, that's the plan anyway. I am getting a new one rather than having my existing T753 upgraded in part due to a question or two by my dealer on the NAD supplied repair procedure. I suspect I have one of the original production runs and the instructions may be against a later run. (Note, that's pure speculation on my part.) Rather than continuing to work the procedure w/ my existing unit, NAD is replacing it with a new one already having the mod. While you don't ever want to have problems, my dealer and NAD have been extremely responsive. I am quite happy on that front. For what it is worth, I was without the unit for a week. I retreived it for use while waiting for the new one to arrive. Once reintegrated into the home, I was reminded again why I fell in love with the NAD sound. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 372 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks for coming back Anon. Let us know the outcome. Apart from your own satisfaction, there is the open question, here, of these receivers just being built that way. Personally I am extremely sceptical about this. |
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Darren Unregistered guest | Just wanted to give an update. After waiting almost 6 weeks for my T773 to come in I finally decided to cancel my order from that particular dealer. I went to another dealer and took the step up to the T163/T973 combo. Very impressive. Last night I watched a movie with my girlfriend and halfway through I paused the movie and asked her if she heard anything. Nope. Quite quiet. I am happy! |
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Bronze Member Username: AirforceonePost Number: 77 Registered: Feb-04 | Cool Darren, glad it worked out. Let's have a review of the combo!! Especially the 163. I can't believe you had to wait 6 weeks, but you know what they say, good things come to those who wait. |
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Bronze Member Username: AirforceonePost Number: 79 Registered: Feb-04 | Hey Darren, if you read this, I REALLY would love a review of the 163. Since you heard the same thing as I from the 773, and you now like the 163, it's back in my plans. Start a new thread if you do review it though, as this one has become long and there's no reason to bump this hum thread again. Thanks Darren. |
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Bronze Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 24 Registered: Dec-03 | AIRFORCEONE: Here is a thread on the 163: www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=542823&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 |
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Bronze Member Username: AirforceonePost Number: 88 Registered: Feb-04 | Thanks Jonathan, much appreciated. |
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Anonymous | I'm overdue to provide an update on my T753 status. My personal situation again interferred with my schedule. Such is life. My dealer received a new unit from NAD, hooked it up and noticed a hum. He said it was not as noticeable, but nonetheless, it was still there and it shouldn't be. He subsequently contacted the VP of national sales, North America. That was last Friday. NAD was firm that problem should have been fixed with the capacitor addition now incproporated as standard. He apologized stating that we must have somehow received an unmodified unit. He confirmed that the problem we were hearing and the procedure for testing for its presence was indeed the problem that the capacitor on the power supply was supposed to fix. Per this and prior communications, the Cirrus Logic processor appears to be sensitive to nose on the power line. The capacitor is to address that. The NAD VP has personally requested a unit to audition in his office before sending it on to me. He should get it this week. I am not happy that the issue remains open, but I continue to be impressed by both my dealer and NAD's efforts to try and make things right. I am not at all convinced that I would get this same level of personal attention with another brand. |
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New member Username: SpockHouston, TX Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-04 | I decided it was time to take an identify. I am the anonymous poster from Monday, March 29, 2004 - 07:33 pm as well as others. Again I must apologize for the tardiness in the reply. Business travel and then ISP disruption made it difficult to post a follow-up in a timely manner. I've had the new T753 for almost two weeks now. I cannot hear any hum from the listening position under any surround settings. Period. If I put my ear really close to the speaker, I can hear white noise and on one setting, just a hint of a hum. However, I must be very clear here. Any noise or hum I now hear is very, very slight and well overpowered by ambient noise in the room, which is not that high to begin with. A bit of experimenting has also made it clear that wire routing might now be my primary problem. Again, I don't hear anything from the listening position. And when I am up against the speaker, the things I hear could now be due to a variety of sources, most of which I believe are non-NAD in origin (e.g., TV). Bottom line, I am happy with the unit. True sonic perfection costs a lot more than I've paid. What I have in my setup now is very, very satisfying. I consider both my dealer (Audio Concepts, Houston) and NAD to have been very, very responsive. -spock |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 477 Registered: Dec-03 | Spock: Glad to hear it! Congrats on your 753! Powering a full Maggie system is going to be awesome--I wish I could hear it. Please post your thoughts after you get everything up and running for awhile. We would all like to hear your review. BTW, a good dealer is one of the most important parts of the equation. Glad you got a good one! Johnb: I cannot speak for everyone, but I searched high and low for an audio receiver. I orginally bought a Denon 3803, which cost more than the NAD 753, and after I heard an NAD 742 embarrass my 3803 (while shopping for speakers), I concluded I had to find better sound, because I would never be happy with the Denon. I looked and listened to every brand of receiver I could find for under $1500, and only one receiver brand came close to that little 742--the Outlaw 1050, which was discontinued last fall. Otherwise, to get the sound I liked from the NAD, I had to go to Adcom or Anthem separates, which started at about $2K. I now own an NAD 753 and I think it sounds superb--far better than the Denon (which I have now sold). For many people, sound is sound and they hear no meaningful difference between brands, but I am not one so afflicted. I actually pay attention to what I am listening to. The NAD does sound better--far better to me, than any of the mass market japanese brands we can all find at our local chain stores. I have no problem with hiss, hum, or crosstalk--in fact my NAD is quieter than the Denon. (I am convinced many of the complaints posted on this board are not the receiver, but result from dirty electrical power, which can be solved with a simple AR line filter--$20 at Best Buy). But even if I did have a complaint, I personally would work to solve it simply because the sound is so superior, IMO. So, if you can't believe people would put up with problems, you have to understand there is a reason--a very good one. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 587 Registered: Dec-03 | Well said, Hawk! Spock, I too, take pleasure in reading you latest post. Thanks. Yes. please write back. Hawk, did you ever write that review of the T753? If you did, I'm afraid I missed it. I realise it ain't simple. I am just now sharpening my pencil to write something about the T533 player and DVD-Audio. I could probably write a book. |
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New member Username: SpockHouston, TX Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-04 | Hawk, I wish I had a Maggie system! There were at least two different anonymous posters in this thread; I was one. I'm running a couple of Paradigm Studio Reference 60s. I don't have a center or sub, yet, and my surrounds are old large units from a prior setup that should be replaced someday. I'm debating the order for what to procure when. I also want to secure a dedicated CD player and have auditioned the Arcam CD73. Very nice. Since this is a long thread already, I'll look to minimize additional commentary on unrelated items and post to other threads or create new ones as appropriate. John A., I'll plan in contributing something back in a few weeks with a more thorough discussion of my experience. -spock |
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Bronze Member Username: HabPost Number: 20 Registered: Feb-04 | Over the past 6-8 weeks I have personnaly had one 752 & three 753's that ALL gave a squeal/humm when the sub cable was inserted into the sub out on the receiver. This happened with all units even if the other end of the sub cable was connected to nothing. It happened with all 4 units here at my house (a technician from the dealer came here to try & fix it) & in the dealers shop as well. It only happens when the sub out is used (many different cables used from cheap to expensive) & in all modes from all speakers except stereo (2 channel) when it works fine. My dealer has sent units back to NAD here in Canada & they have sent new ones they said were tested & problem free.....but they weren't. Both myself & the dealer are at a loss to explain why NAD wont either send a unit that works or explain the problem & tell us if can actually be fixed. The sound is indeed superior to anything in it's price range but this is getting more frustrating by the day. |
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New member Username: Rob_visscherNetherlands Post Number: 4 Registered: Feb-04 | Hi Guys, Sorry I didn't keep you posted on my saga, I was waiting for more info. In my posting of feb 28th I told you of my fourth 753 going back to the shop. I took that unit back and after being offered to buy another brand I told the dealer that I would wait for a couple of weeks, to see if there was coming an upgraded version. On the same evening, I sent a question to NAD canada, to inform them on the quite strange reaction from NAD Benelux on this issue(see earlier postings, in short, the white noise was a designers choice and normal), and to ask if and when there would be a solution to this problem. On March 17th I got an answer from NAD which I wil copy/paste here: Thank you for your recent request via the NAD Electronics web-site. I have copied NAD Benelux on this email. Please contact them as there is an upgrade available for the T753 that will reduce the buzz and white noise that you are hearing on the unit. This problem affected a small number of T753's. Best regards, Karen Pritchard (tv) I then informed the dealer on this reaction, and they contacted NAD Benelux. They are upgrading the units now and I hope to receive one in the next few weeks. Fingers crossed that this will solve the problem, but I have a good feeling about it. Upgrading to a 763 was no option: the one in the shop had the same problem. I will post again if my new unit gets in. |
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Bronze Member Username: HabPost Number: 21 Registered: Feb-04 | Rob, As you can see from my posting of Mon Apr 12/04-3:53pm (just ahead of yours) I have gone through four 753's that all had noise problems & still no solution. Nad Canada has been contacted over & over about this but still no solution...they seem to keep saying it is my ears (& the ears of my dealer). Please keep us posted as to whether or not you get any satisfaction from them. The sound is great & from what I have read here the service is supposed to be great from NAD. So far with me it is just the sound that is great!!! |
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MarcB Unregistered guest | Paul, i've found the NAD service to be pretty sad. I've tried to contact them many times about the popping problem I get from my speakers because of it. Even though, my dealer diagnosed it as my TV creating a static discharge that affects my receiver, no other receiver (HK, Marantz, Denon) i've used exhibits this problem. If you find anyone who is helpful over there, please post the contact info. Everyone I've contacted over at NAD is in denial about their products having problems. |
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Bronze Member Username: HabPost Number: 22 Registered: Feb-04 | Marc, It seems to me that your are right on the money. The dealer where I bought my NAD receiver has been told over & over by NAD Canada that they know of no noise problems even though the dealer has heard it very clearly in his shop on all four receivers they have sent. They say that they tested these receivers before sending them so it seems pretty obvious that their policy is to deny deny deny. That's so sad for both the customer & the company. This is not a minor hiss that you have to put your ear to the receiver to hear. It is a constant squeal/hiss that can be easily heard anywhere in a large room. |
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Bronze Member Username: HabPost Number: 23 Registered: Feb-04 | Just a quick follow-up on my last post a few minutes ago. I too have used other receivers in the same set-up & no problems at all. My old Sony from years back worked fine, as does the Marantz the dealer gave me as a loaner while WAITING ON NAD. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 604 Registered: Dec-03 | Rob, Congratulations. You have done everyone a favour, including NAD Benelux. Paul. Marc, Do what Rob did. Don't let 'em off the hook. If the dealer thinks he knows better than you, us, and the manufacturer, lean over and whisper in his ear the magic words "Best Buy" and "Circuit City". |
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New member Username: Denunzio11Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-04 | Hi all, Bought my 763 last week and I love it..BUT... I can confirm the hiss/hum issue posted here several times. In fact, its almost scary how some of these posts exactly describe what I experience. In short, when I switch to my DVD input, on pro logic,(optical input only BTW) i hear nothing until i hit "play", then I hear a distinct hiss/hum from the center channel and right rear...less so in the left rear. This persists when i hit pause or stop. I have not done much experimenting yet with grounding, unplugging other components/subwoofer, optical vs analog, etc. I'll try and do some tinkering tonight when I get home. I too was thinking it was probably a grounding/interference issue until I started reading this today and now I'm not so sure. I'll let you all know what I find I'm a rookie here so any advice on how to test/ what to look for would be appreciated. -denunzio |
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Bronze Member Username: KendridPost Number: 18 Registered: Apr-04 | Bruce - was your unit in-stock at the dealer or did you have to wait for it? Maybe it was on older unit that didn't have the 'fix' applied. My T753 just arrived. I about had a heart attack carrying it to my car 150 yards from my office door. I will let everyone know what I think of it and any issues that notice. |
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New member Username: Denunzio11Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-04 | It was in stock so i have no idea as to the build date. Is the build date indicated anywhere on the unit? I can check when i get home. Good luck with yours Kevin! -BruceB (denunzio) |
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Bronze Member Username: KendridPost Number: 19 Registered: Apr-04 | So far so good with my new T753. With all sources there is no hum at all. There is a hiss present at higher volumes, but it is only audible when I am closer than one foot to the speaker. Ever receiver I have ever used has a slight hiss when you are very close to the speakers. One glitch I have noticed is with the component video switching. I have two HD devices so I have to use the switching. If the screen flashed a bright white image, the screen will 'shimmer' for a brief moment. I had the same problem with a Rotel receiver a few years aog. I will see how often it occurs. In the case of the Rotel it was in all of the units, so I'm guessing the same for NAD. I didn't get to do any 'critical' listening yet. I will post my impressions once I spend more time with it. |
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Unregistered guest | KT, Yes, please post your thoughts as stated. Also, post your immediate impressions - like the first 2 minutes; I agree with the saying, "audio memory is very short", so would be curious as to your immediate impression as to when you initially fired it up. Do I recall correctly that you're running a flush of Snells? If so, enlighten me with the whole sound, if not, my mistake. |
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