Fresh Gear for the Speaker Guys
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8170 Registered: Feb-05 | Here is a place to talk about gear that you recently listened to that either impressed you or depressed you. This could be from auditions while out hunting a new piece for your setup or something that you heard at a friends house. Whether enthralled or appalled here is your chance to let go of it! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8171 Registered: Feb-05 | Let me get the ball rolling... Today while at the boys place to pic up my P3-24, vdH Mainstream power cord and a few feet of Snowline speaker cable for the second system I had a listen to some of the freshest sounding gear I've ever heard. Always loved the Devore speakers but never heard anything above the 8's. Today I listened to this system: The Mastersound Compact 300B The Scheu Premier table with a Roksan Nima arm and Dynavector XX2 cartridge (about to be switched to a vdH Frog). Devore Fidelity Nines It was absolutely stunning. I had heard the Mastersound amps before and felt that they presented a bit too warm and romantic a picture for me but wow was my mind changed today. The combination just got up and boogied. He played a David Grisman record, wish I could remember which one, it was just swinging like mad. The Devores are right up my alley. Neutral and clean very, very refined high end. They reminded me of my R5's only far more refined, what the upper end Rega's should have sounded like. Extraordinary system!!! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8179 Registered: Feb-05 | Correction to last night's post...damned bourbon...the tonearm on the Shceu table was the Tabriz ZI from Roksan, not the Nima. The phono stage was Roksan's reference phono stage- DX2 box w/ DS1.5 DC Power Module and the Artaxerxes.X phono module. The cables were van den Hul MC Silver Mk II RCAs from the phono to the Mastersound, and van den Hul Revelation from the Mastersound to the Devores. Let me tell ya...I just about asked 'em if they would take my car for the whole shootin' match...I was afraid they might say yes then how would I get to work...then again why would I want to go to work...lol! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1749 Registered: Feb-07 | I would have to say that moving a CD player to my channel system has really impressed me. I was using a cheap DAC and flac files as a source before. It seems that the CDP has brought a new level of quality and detail that was missing before. It really makes me appreciate my Cambridge Audio 640C (and makes me wish I had bought the 840C... oh well). |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8186 Registered: Feb-05 | Never too late ! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1754 Registered: Feb-07 | You're supposed to talk me down Art. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8189 Registered: Feb-05 | Someone was supposed to talk me off the ledge with the vdH Mainstream power cord...this ain't a good place for that kinda talk...lol! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8190 Registered: Feb-05 | Heard any new gear anyone...impressions, depressions...thoughts, dreams etc? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11135 Registered: Dec-04 | The Jolida 9a phono pre-amp. This unit, listing at 450CDN is a useful preamp/phono. The first owner had the sense to install EHAX7's in place of the AU tubes that came standard and were marked as simply 'China'. This unit is versatile enough, although there is no manual bias or gain, the dip's on the back should fit just about any configuration. This tube pre offers substantial gain proper, as well as additional gains for fun. Every option has returned very good results, as the nature of the output does not change at all. It always sounds the same, which I find to be very neutral with various recordings, never temperamentl, and never, EVER simbalant. The pre offers a line stage as well, albeit with a cable swap. I highly recommend this unit (3 months old) and 50 hrs on it, if I believe the guy who sold it for a Copland integrated. Price paid- $350 all in Nice!!! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8191 Registered: Feb-05 | Nicely done Nuck. Sounds like you found a heck of a good deal. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11137 Registered: Dec-04 | It's a solid unit Art. I bypassed listening the other day at my dealers. Just picked ut the cart and baaaaacked away. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3100 Registered: May-05 | My wonderful wife is buying me an Apple TV for Christmas. I'll use it as a server and save up for a good DAC. I'd love to get the Bryston BDA-1, but at $2k it may be a while. Have any of you checked out the Apple TV? I played with it for a while at the Apple store. Its a great gadget that should make the listening experience even more fun. The remote that comes with it sucks, but it can be controlled by a universal remote or an iPod Touch/iPhone. I'm also contemplating buying a Harmony remote to get rid of the 6 or so remotes in my listening room. When will Rega join the 21st Century and make a DAC along the lines of the Apollo or Saturn? I'd love it if I could get the Apple TV to sound like a BCD-1, Saturn, or Apollo. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2022 Registered: Nov-05 | Well Art, guys, - I just don't go around listening to new/different gear these days. I am really content with what we have and as I said to my wife (more than once lately) it is sounding better and better. I think the Quads may not be everyone's cup of tea, but in all honesty I think they must really take some time to run in as I don't believe I've heard anything come close to them for around the money I paid. The A5 performs flawlessly as does the CD51, but unless pennies fall from heaven (like a few million) I'll be sticking with these Quads - no cliches, they are just musically inviting imo. Congrats on the table Art - you old devil! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8203 Registered: Feb-05 | I don't know anything about the Apple TV. I'll have to check it out. I hear talk of a Rega DAC, however I like Rega's careful approach. Does Naim have a DAC? The Quads are great MR and I'm glad you're still enjoying your system. Time to just enjoy the music...ahhh! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1901 Registered: Jun-05 | MR,it doesent really get better than the Quads,the Musical Fidelity A5 series is outstanding as well,you have a extremely impressive setup,that most would dream to have. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2023 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks guys. I didn't mean for that post to look like I was fishing for compliments, I was trying to explain that it seems to take an extraordinary long time for the Quads to run in properly - or so it seems to us. Maybe it's the Carbon/Kevlar cones - I don't know - or maybe it's just a combination of all the components having adjusted from a fair amount of use. But I do admit that if ever a speaker has caught my eye it's some of those from Audio Physic - glad there's none around my neck of the woods to audition - not that I can afford them. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3101 Registered: May-05 | Rantz, The Audio Physics sound even better than they look. They look good in pics, but they look far better in person. The fit and finish is first class, from the least expensive model (which I own) to the top of the range. Art, The Apple TV is a lot of fun for music. Its different from the Sonos, Sqeezebox, et al. as it uses your TV as an interface. You can also save pics to it and have them run as a screen saver of sorts. For those who don't want to use the TV as the interface, they can use the iPod Touch/iPhone as the remote, which makes things very easy as well. The Apple TV's intent was mainly a video streaming device, but gets some bad press for that aspect of it. Not enough movies to rent from iTunes, download times, costs etc. I have no interest in that aspect of it. The music server aspect of it is a lot of fun. Its basically like having an iPod in your living room without the downfall of the iPod's sound quality. Searching through stacks of CDs for so long for one song that you forgot which song it was is over. If you've got an Apple store near you, check it out. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1252 Registered: Nov-06 | I just switched out my cables for audioquest... man what a difference. The image is much more stable, the bass has tightened up even more, and the mids have lost a bit of congestion and gained warmth and presence. Highs are now very smooth, and have since lost the bit of grain that had me start the cable search. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2253 Registered: Oct-04 | The AudioQuest Jumpers definitely cleaned up things on my HK3485. There was a noticeable bass refinement, and "quieter" silence. This prompted me to tryout some of their Alpha Snake analog interconnects, which I must admit, I liked less than my KnuKonceptz bargain-basement (but nicely built) cables. The effect of the Alpha Snakes on my Marantz gear sort of veiled the highs to my ear. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1253 Registered: Nov-06 | I have the copperhead for an interconnect. performs better imho than the alpha snake. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1254 Registered: Nov-06 | I have the copperhead for an interconnect. performs better imho than the alpha snake. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2254 Registered: Oct-04 | Well they're more expensive, so they should be better. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 370 Registered: Jun-08 | I'm using AQ Copperhead IC between my Onkyo 805 (running a a pre/pro) and my Bryston 3B-ST. With my Sinclair Audio speakers, which are quite neutral The Copperhead sounds quite good. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1629 Registered: May-06 | Hmmm. I guess we all know what works here may not work there, what work for me may not work for you, etc., etc., etc. It is all so subjective and relative to each person's own individual situation with equipment, wires, and their listening experiences. I mean Art and I could have the same exact "B" System but his ICs might sound bright or flat in my room as our rooms themselves could be different. I had Nordost Black Knights which I thought were great but it was my first upgrade above red and white plastic RCAs. Then I moved up to Audioquest when one of you guys alerted us to the big box store clearance. I had the G-Snakes then the King Cobras. I thought they were great. Then I went to a split of Tara Labs Air 3s and Purist Audio Elementas and thought, "Wow what a great upgrade.". Then our buddy Nuck ships out these Dared ICs and I finagle my way to 3 pairs of them and suddenly my system opens up and its like buying whole new gear. Next JV stops buy and says "Let's build these $6 (real cost) ICs and see how they work. Well sh!t. Here I sit with about $1,500 in ICs not being used in my "A System" while I employ, since modified, DIY ICs which absolutely satisfy me in every way and I would have to upgrade my entire system to make them the weak link. My point is that it is really pleasing to change out something in your kit for nominal cost (as compared to cost of components or speakers) and experience an improved listening experience. I really do not think the ICs JV has designed work for everybody, but they work for Vigne's kit and my kit which are fairly diverse. A long winded way of saying in contrast to CM's post that cost is not always relative. Synergy and balance are not necessarily cost driven is what I am thinking. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 380 Registered: Jun-08 | Hi Mike, I'm interested in exploring IC's and would love a DIY alternative. Any chance you would be willing to build one for me or preferedly provide the instructions and help me source out the materials? Do you and JV have a thread out on building these...step by step?? Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2255 Registered: Oct-04 | Check this out George: http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize021998.htm Mike, wouldn't you say that it's reasonable that within a company's product line, expectations should increase with MSRP? That being said, if you & Jan can be sonically satisfied with a few pennies worth of magnet-wire, and others with butchered-up extension-cord http://6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html , I think it's fair to say that while uber-expensive cables might look cool, and some do, they just don't guarantee anyone a thing in terms of performance. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2180 Registered: Jun-07 | I agree with Chris. There is only so much that can be done with a cable, or power cable, that it just doesn't justify these cable companies marketing their products for 1000 dollars and crap. Boggles my mind. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 382 Registered: Jun-08 | Wicked links Chris. I'll have to look into this. Until then, no more investing in cables for me. My $50 bucks for 30ft on Kimber 4PR will do for now. Afterall, it would be fun to experiment. Mike/JV: I'd still be interested in hearing you I.C.'s given your testimony. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1633 Registered: May-06 | CM, you are a Master Web Search Engine all by yourself! First, "Mike, wouldn't you say that it's reasonable that within a company's product line, expectations should increase with MSRP? ", yes that is a reasonable expectation, just not a rule. As to your first link above, I am in absolute agreement with the author. He hits on so many points, the gold surface to gold surface and the minimal inductance with the thinnest gauge wire. I too use the 30 gauge magnet wire with my 28 gauge silver. You need to look at an enlarged picture of the Eichmann Bullets I use. I do know of anything with less inductance than these. I chose not thought to put the packing tape on my ICs but I use it for my speaker wire. I might try going to an all silver IC (currently just the (+) run is silver with the (-) run magnet. I did pretty much the same thing as depicted in your second link above with Home Depot Orange Outdoor Extension Cords. The magnet wire out performed the extension cord wire for speaker wires for me. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8421 Registered: Feb-05 | Good posts guys. I said this long ago that price doesn't guarantee performance. As Mike pointed out it's way more about synergy. I do presently have some pretty expensive cables and they work very well for me. In the past I've owned various manufacturer's expensive cables and had varying degree's of success. Cables nearly always change the sound but I've noticed that it isn't always for the better. The further up the Analysis Plus line I went the less satisfied I was. More detail, more air, less coherent and musical. Does that mean that the A Plus cables were bad, no...not at all it just means that they didn't work with my system. I'm presently blessed with a system that has total synergy...all Rega with an all vdH loom and that works unbelievably well for me. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 384 Registered: Jun-08 | Art, great to hear you've found the right mix of gear in two quality brands. That makes life easier. Now it's the temptation to move up the feeding chain in the Rega line. Happy that you've arrived a an audio high. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 74 Registered: Mar-08 | Michael, I just PM'ed you about the your cables I'm telling you here in case you are as bad as I am about checking for mail - in fact I'll need to see how to find PMs since I've never tried this before. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1639 Registered: May-06 | Rick, I just picked it up. Look for my reply. Call me over the weekend if you have time. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1640 Registered: May-06 | My return PM will be in your email. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13216 Registered: May-04 | . "Diminishing expectations"? http://www.angeljuicer.com.au/ http://www.nextag.com/Super-Angel-All-Stainless-601078133/ecoustics01/pric es-html I wouldn't nexcessarily agree that our expectaions proceed upward as we follow the price. There are always excellent budget products that push our sense of what is possible at any particular price range. For example, my Grado phono cartridge is near the top of their line but only a small amount when compared to what their top flight cartridge costs. I have heard Grado's for several decades now and their budget cartridges have always included a large scoop of what people appreciate from Grado. For years the $39 Grado was a standing recommended product in most any hifi magazine. IMO here I had a reasonably good idea just what I was getting for my money (I'd used a similarly priced Grado for quite some time without figuring in rising inflation) and I chose to spend where I thought my expectations would be met - they were pleasantly surpassed actually - and yet I didn't hit the very obvious limits of diminishing returns. I could cite numerous lines with what IMO would be similar products capable of being entry level priced with performance well outside the boundaries of what we typically associate with budget gear. (That would include the ever popular magazine review that cites a $5k product as a "budget buy". Many listeners feel the $1600 Koetsu Black to be such an item where most of us are hestitant to even think about that expenditure for something such as a cartridge.) I would say the extreme top of most ines is not - and should not be - very different than the lower ends of any well thought out line. You'll hear a smidge more but pay a chunk more. With the ic's MW and I use, there are obvious concessions that have been made for the sound quality that simply could not be placed on a commercial product. These are quite good sounding ic and speaker cables as far as I'm concerned but they are not for the person who cannot appreciate their rather easily-destructable-to-the-point-of-you-could-be-quite-sorry-you-did-that sort of construction. . |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 86 Registered: Mar-08 | Here's another interesting cable receipe that has some helpful information: http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm He seems to like 20 gauge for both interconnect and speaker. Also interesting about the 'soft temper' silver. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 87 Registered: Mar-08 | Comparing the "Silver Signal Tape" design, JV's design, and the above (Tempo Electric) design for ICs... Silver Signal Tape: 30 AWG Silver + / 30 AGW Silver -, 2" Packing tape wrapper for two channels, 1/4" Parallel Spacing (+/-) with about 1 inch between channels, Radio Shack Gold RCAs(?). JV: 28 AWG Silver + / 30 AWG Mag Wire - / 2" Packing tape wrapper / 1/4" Parallel Spacing (+/-) with about 1 inch between channels? / Eichmann Bullet RCAs Tempo Electric: 20 AWG Silver - / 20 AWG Silver - / 20 AWG Drain / Teflon Wrappers / Parallel bundle, Twisted at 3-4" spacing, separate bundles for each channel. Cardas Silver, WBT 110AG Next Gen Locking, or Eichmann Silver Bullet RCA. Common to all: Single Strand, pure silver (99.9+%). Silver solder. Any experience out there on 20 vs 28 vs 30 AGW? I notice that the maximum frequency for 100% skin depths is 27kHz vs 170kHz vs 270kHz on copper, all above hearing. Would think the 20 is less fragile, if more expensive? Should silver/silver wire out perform silver/mag wire? Or possibly matter of taste on a given system? Anyone tried on their system? Should silver connectors out-perform gold connectors? Or possibly matter of taste on a given system? Is there still a benefit if only male connnector is silver? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11319 Registered: Dec-04 | they are not for the person who cannot appreciate their rather easily-destructable-to-the-point-of-you-could-be-quite-sorry-you-did-that sort of construction Dont do it with a dog in the house. Or a drunken Nuck who is viewing the bamboo X's as landing points. Dude left the points on and everything, I have no idea why. It's full of tradeoff's man, but cheap to try (and dont suck). |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13238 Registered: May-04 | "Common to all: Single Strand, pure silver (99.9+%). Silver solder. " First of all, I hope you are not confusing silver wire with silver solder. 4% silver solder can be had for $4 per 50' roll and contains tin and usually a good deal of lead. You wnat to use "fine silver" - not sterling which has other alloys mixed in - wire which can be obtained from a jeweller's supply. It is sold by the silver ounce so the guage doesn't matter other than you get less length by ordering the heavier guage wire. "Any experience out there on 20 vs 28 vs 30 AGW? I notice that the maximum frequency for 100% skin depths is 27kHz vs 170kHz vs 270kHz on copper, all above hearing. Would think the 20 is less fragile, if more expensive?" Yes, use the thinnest guage you can handle without the wire becoming too fragile. And don't overthink this. "Should silver/silver wire out perform silver/mag wire? Or possibly matter of taste on a given system? Anyone tried on their system?" I'm unaware of "silver/magnet wire". I assume you mean a silver "+" conductor and copper "-" leg. Wouldn't you suppose it would be better to have both conductors allowing those little elctrons to run at the same speed? Otherwise, there'll be a bunch of them waiting in queue at the entry to the "-" leg until their turn comes around. And you don't want electrons waiting around enmass - they only get themself into trouble when given half a chance.  "Should silver connectors out-perform gold connectors? Or possibly matter of taste on a given system? Is there still a benefit if only male connnector is silver?" Now you are underthinking the situation. The silver or gold is merely a plating over a substrate material chosen for low cost and durability. If you were to use fine silver or high grade gold alone, the cost would be astromonical and the durability in the tank. The substrate material and how much of it there is would be, IMO, the most important thing to consider here. Doing away with things that only screw with the sound is the best choice. If you can, hardwire everything into your source/pre amp and forget the RCA's. You won't believe the benefits this provides. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13240 Registered: May-04 | . "It's Gold and Silver alloy conductors blend the rich warmth of Gold with the transparent purity of Silver.' Rich, warm gold ... UUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMM . |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1694 Registered: May-06 | "Should silver/silver wire out perform silver/mag wire? Or possibly matter of taste on a given system? Anyone tried on their system?" I'm unaware of "silver/magnet wire". I assume you mean a silver "+" conductor and copper "-" leg. Wouldn't you suppose it would be better to have both conductors allowing those little elctrons to run at the same speed? Otherwise, there'll be a bunch of them waiting in queue at the entry to the "-" leg until their turn comes around. And you don't want electrons waiting around enmass - they only get themself into trouble when given half a chance. OMG, so that is what's happening to my kit. All of this time I thought I had issues with dust and static electricity and no matter what I did, there was still dust and static electricity. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 90 Registered: Mar-08 | Jan and Mike, I can see that you two may be out of sync - JV says use the same metal and MW used silver and copper. I would agree that using the same metal would seem to be the correct choice because the signal basically has to run round trip and having mixed paths would not intuitively make things better for an AC signal. Silver has a slightly better conductivity than copper - though I'm not sure that mixing the two wire types would create a static (DC) charge (as in a set of electrons permanently building up at the speaker). I'd more likely believe that the voltages in the wires are attracting a static charge on the outside of the packing tape. MW - perhaps your cables can have the dual advantage of sounding great and also helping to vacuum your room? JV - got the difference between solder and 99.99% silver wire. I don't think I'm going to be pulling my pre-amp or DAC apart to take out the connectors - though I can understand your point. Also am not surprised you say the smaller gauge wire is better. The connectors I was considering do not seem to be silver plated. These Eichmann silver bullet RCAs ( Maybe some more info and you can make some more suggestions. My CI Audio (http://www.ciaudio.com/) VDA-2 DAC has two pair of RCA outputs (L/R In Phase) and (L/R Out of Phase). They offer an interconnect (that I currently use) that takes the output of two out of phase RCAs (say L In Phase/L OutPhase) to create one balanced XLR input. I'm thinking of an interconnect that has the following: Eichmann Silver Bullet RCAs 2" Packing tape with signals at 1/4" spacing as: (+ d g d g d - ) g=RCA ground, d=drain using 28 or 30 gauge pure single strand silver wire (99.99). Some XLR (silver?) TBD with + - gnd shield connections were the two grounds in the cable are attached to the ground on the XLR and the three drains in the cable are attached to the shield on the XLR. Probably will make to 1 meter length. Connects made using silver solder. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13241 Registered: May-04 | . You're asking for advice? An opinion? My advice is call the manufacturer since my opinion is I don't tell people how they might blow up their gear. The manufacturer knows how this should be done better than I do. . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11326 Registered: Dec-04 | Now about that big box of ic's, JV... |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13242 Registered: May-04 | . It's heavy and I'm getting tired of moving it everytime I need something from the closet. |
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