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Silver Member Username: ThelonewolfPost Number: 202 Registered: Jul-05 | I am looking at a few different amps for my car for when I do my build, slowly accumulating parts. Right now I have CDT EF-61CFi/25 components for my front stage(doing a custom "pod" for my doors), which I am looking for an amp for. I plan on running my stock rear speakers in the doors for rear fill. The head unit I am planning on picking up is the Pioneer DEH-P7200HD... So here are the amps I am looking at so far in order... Precision Power PPI S760.4 Precision Power PPI S580.4 PPI Art 600.2 ORION Cobalt CO600.2 Sundown SAX125.2 Opinions on each? Stay away from any? Change my mind? Any input is appreciated! Thanks, ~Ricky |
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Silver Member Username: ThelonewolfPost Number: 203 Registered: Jul-05 | I also am considering some other 2 channel amps... In order... Soundstream TRX2.550 Soundstream PCX2.540 Soundstream PCX2.440 Soundstream TRX2.440 But then I would rely on the HU or a cheapo little 2 channel to power my stock doors... Please any thoughts as the amp will be my next purchase... |
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Silver Member Username: MystrePemberville, Ohio USA Post Number: 623 Registered: Sep-05 | Sundown or PPI Art. Stay away from the others. |
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Silver Member Username: ThelonewolfPost Number: 204 Registered: Jul-05 | Why? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14223 Registered: Dec-03 | PPI was just recently bought out, and there isn't any word yet really on if the new products are any good. Sundown is terrific, as is old school ART series PPI. That said, I'd use a 4 channel amp, and amplify the rears, with the back 2 amp channels bridged, and the rears in series. that'll give a better rear fill if you bandpass filter them for midbass only. |
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Silver Member Username: ThelonewolfPost Number: 206 Registered: Jul-05 | The PPI S760.4 and PPI S580.4 are both 2008 models...would either of those be a good choice? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14225 Registered: Dec-03 | 2008 would be a DEI product, and they were decent amplifiers. Not at the level of Sundown, but acceptable, yes. |
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Silver Member Username: ThelonewolfPost Number: 208 Registered: Jul-05 | In comparison to the sundown is it just build quality or is there an audible difference between them? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14227 Registered: Dec-03 | Richard Clark proposed that there isn't an audible difference between any two amplifiers, when compared within a specific rule set. So far nobody has collected the $10,000 to prove him wrong. Others may argue this point. |
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Silver Member Username: ThelonewolfPost Number: 209 Registered: Jul-05 | so it just comes down to build quality and how over rated the amp is? If that is the case a relatively inexpensive PPI should be a decent fit and give me more room to work with as it is a higher wattage that the sundown or am I way off here? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14231 Registered: Dec-03 | the Sundown SAZ series amplifiers are all mIlSpec components inside, and can handle power sources up to 16VDC if I recall correctly. Build quality matters, if you plan to keep the amplifiers very long (I'm still using amplifiers built 20 years ago, because they are outstandly well-made products.) The other factor to consider is yes, how well rated the output really is. The best way to tell accuracy of the rating, is by the CEA2006 rating for power. These are very strict guidelines for measuring output, and they will allow comparison of amplifiers between brands with fairly accurate results. An amplifier's power supply is really one of the main factors in quality, as it will determine how much reserve power the amplifier will be able to supply instantaneously. Two amps putting out around 50 watts each may sound identical, but when pushed to their limits, one may sound flat and lack headroom, while a better made amp would still be able to sound airy and open, still able to handle transient peaks in demand. You really will get what you pay for. |
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Silver Member Username: ThelonewolfPost Number: 210 Registered: Jul-05 | alright thanks, more research till I make a decision. I can get the PPI S760.4 (2008 Model) for 144 shipped NIB. If i am going for a 4 channel, the Sundown SAX-100.4D would be my choice which I can get for around 300 refurbished. The PPI claims 120X4 at 4ohms while the sundown claims 100x4 at 4ohm... So 20 more watts for half the price... If I am barking up the wrong tree let me know. Any others you would suggest? I can deff go more power, and I am piecing this system together and when I get all the bits it will be built so I can spend more... So if you have another suggestion for a 4 channel amp, fire away! I have time but the amp for my speakers is the next piece to get picked up... |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14234 Registered: Dec-03 | a 20% increase in output won't even be a noticeable difference to be honest. Maybe 1dB difference if that. Power to volume ratio is a tricky thing. It's a log scale relationship. double the power output is a 3dB increase, whereas 6 to 10 times the power is an audible doubling of volume. In short, to make a noticeable increase of volume, you need 2X the power. To double the audible volume (human perception of volume) you'd need ten times the power. That's assuming you don't reach the mechanical limits of the speakers, and other variable factors like that. I wouldn't be as concerned over that 20 watts as I would over things like how much wiring do you need to do 2 separate amps vs 1 4-channel amp, do the amps have any features you need like remote operation, crossover, etc, and do you plan to have them long term and want them to last for years, or are you the sort to upgrade or swap gear every year or so? Personally, I'd take the sundown. better amp, and easier to wire overall. Also smaller footprint, so less room taken for 4 channels. I've looked at running my 3-way front stage fully active as well, and weighed similar concerns with space, cost, power, etc.. using a 6 channel amp, a 2 and 4 channel amp pair, or 3 stereo amps. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14235 Registered: Dec-03 | PS, see if any info here helps: http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/index.html |
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Silver Member Username: ThelonewolfPost Number: 211 Registered: Jul-05 | I have been reading your papers, I may just wait for the SAX-200.4, trying to find the dimensions but that doesn't matter too much. I think that way I'll have some head room to work with and will be able to upgrade my rears if i should decide to do so... I am not overly concerned over the wiring my car will be relatively easy to wire especially since it will be a summer project and will but gutted for deadening and such. I will not be running active, i have considered it but I am not confident I will be able to get it quite right without a spectrum analyzer... My biggest concern is my charging system, my little 90 amp(so they say) alternator will not cut it. I am having a hard time finding one for my car. I should have plenty of space for my amps and batteries, especially now that I realize I can fit an 18 and box in my trunk, I just cant actually get it in the trunk... So a 15 will do, probably a Fi Q... Not sure the amp yet that will be easier to decide than the one for my comps... I appreciate all the input, had I known earlier about the 200.4 that would have been my first choice... |