i know, and the more motor strength a sub has....the more control over the VC it has....and the more inclined to SQ it is.
and the TSx has more BL than the SSi....so it has more control over it's motor than the SSi does. and the SSi has a higher Qts which means it is inlcined more for SPl due to its weaker motor.
Intresting stuff Muddy.... TSX keep on surprising me... Its funny how TREO does stuff, but the SSI has amazing SQ the way its designed. the TSX sq is amazing I must say and it does handle like a champ! The magnet on the TSX are slightly larger also.. TSX also has more excursion..
Ya, I noticed the increased excursion of the TSX over the SSI, that is why the TSX's BL is a little higher but the SSI's RMS handling is quite a bit higher that the TSX. With the SSI's lower excursion, higher suspension stiffness and looser motor structure the SSI is gonna be "Ultra Linear", can't wait to get mine! Also note the higher motor weight on the SSI (72ozmore) this is because of the integral heat sinks to keep the 3" VC cool with all that power. Polo..
a greater BLK is more inclinded to SPL not SQ im pretty sure. however. we all know numbers arent everying. if i wasnt bumming it right now id look to reasure myself but some SPL subs dont even have that high of a BL and are LOUD! but im really almost positive higher BL is for SPL... and i dont know where you guys are getting your information from... the TSX doesnt have more excursion than the SSi.
yes it does.....Read The Site the TSx has an excursion of 54mm the SSi has an excursion of 27mm
from Glasswolf: the motor strength or BL of the driver reflects how much control the magnet/motor structore of the sub exerts on the moving mass. it's a trade off. generally the more control the motor has, the more accurate or controlled the speaker is going to be, but the less efficient it'll be, too. a strong BL is good for SQ but not so good for SPL. There are other factors affected as well but that gives you an idea.
do you know how much 54mm is? thats definately p2p. 54mm is the new xxx xmax... the tsx isnt even close... lol
"High SPL subs have VERY tight magnetic gaps. This coupled with stiff motor structure and (for most) high Vas make a poor SQ sub. Some are down right pitiful for daily use. The MTX RFL is a good example. The coils have a tendency to unwind after heavy use. High Bl and Low Mms can be good for SQ. There are just too many factors that go with it to say those are all bad. I hear the Treo CSX can sound pretty good. I know the DD 9515's can."
"their suspension and other specs just arent right for something like a sealed box. they just don't really move in the same way that other subs that maintain SQ do. they have high BL (motor strength) and most SPL subs depend on the higher BL to get loud..there are so many factors that go into it. basically they are just the antithesis of SQ subs.."
"What would be the most difference is taking a sub and changing a BL of like 15 or so, raising the BL to make it a much more SPL oriented sub, (having a stronger motor force), or lowering the BL to make it a more SQ oriented sub (Less motor force). But i'd think if you changed the BL that much other things on the sub would change as well, Raising the BL you would need more of a moving mass to not throw the sub out of the gap, or something like that."
"Best of all, Tumult uses Adire's patent-pending XBL2 motor technology. This new motor design yields the flattest BL curve of any motor design. And a flatter BL curve means lower distortion, and reduced dynamics compression. Truer to the signal - better sound. And contrary to what some claim, it doesn't sacrifice ANY BL or motor strength; in fact, the Tumult has more motor strength than just about any home audio driver available today." -from adires site. if your not sacrificing BL that means you still have alot of it right? and what they are saying is alot of BL is good for loud and the flatness is good for SQ.
there are a few other people that think a stronger motor structure is good for SPL but it is a debated specification. i'd like for glasswolf to get on so i could talk to him about it.
one thing where glasswolf contradicts himself in a way is that the force of the cone to be moved with such athority wouldnt mean its bad for SPL. when you think about it, think of it like a car, you have horse power and torque. SPL is the torque. the real athorative power. thats how i look at it anyway. i think we have a debate on our hands . lets keep it clean though for anyone else who wants to put in their 2 cents.
whatever it says the tsx doesnt have more excursion lol if somehow it did... it would be very very small difference. but actually, i think the ssi has more excursion by a very small amount. but yeah their specs are kinda weird.. they need to keep all the models rated the same way lol
i can understand how oyu can say that a high BL is for SPL subs....b/c they need more power to get loud.....but you don't necessarily need a lot of power to get loud. as far as like a IDMAX to an L7. the IDMAX will get loud with very little power....while an L7 needs gobs of power.
so that shows that an IDMAX has a stronger motor....b/c it doesn't need as much power to exert force on the cone.
while the L7 needs a lot of power to exert force on the already heavy cone.
Raising the BL you would need more of a moving mass to not throw the sub out of the gap, or something like that."
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which means weaker motors are more suitable for SPL so you don't have to increase the Xmax by an ungodly amount to keep the stronger motor from throwing the VC out of the gap.
well, i am trying to look at both sides of the situation, really. but i havent switched over yet. lol ive been taking a look at SPL subs and SQL subs and SQ subs and so far ive check out adire and RE and the SPL subs have a higher BL 70-90% of the time. (so far) im going to go eat like 9 tacos and then i'll be back to look some more btw, check out the MT. insane BL.
Now that ypu guys mentioned the XXX, I know the Xmas is 54mm one way but what is the P2P excursion limits on it? The Treo SSX has a P2P excursion limit of 101.6mm (4")but its Xmas is only 28mm. The XXX handles 2500 rms 2700 max (approx) but the SSX also handles 2500 but is said to be very underated and can handle approx double the rms. Now I know hgher the input power, higher the BL will become, so does this mean that the SSX will sound better and get louder? Polo..
wow. this thread blew up... well I agree with Trevor, we need someone with more knowledge on BL period.. But its more physics here than electronics... Like we all know numbers aint everything... so try not to analyize too hard..
