Sound imaging placement help (pixs)

 

Silver Member
Username: Tragedy

San Jose, CA

Post Number: 203
Registered: Feb-05
finally got my comps and i need help on placement.. here are some pixs to better visualize what i am working with... kickpanels are out of the question.

(out of all the placements i like this one best.. the grill on the tweet matches the style of the vent)
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(this one seems like if installed in the A pillar the tweet would be focused more across the dash than back at the driver because of the angle but i dunno)
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(this one is using a surface mount bracket, i kinda like how this one is positioned but not to crazy on it sticking out to much, but i could get used to it)
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(this picture is just to show where the woofer installed in the door is in relation to the other components.
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Any other comments you could give me would be great maybe you see something i am missing.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Nitescort

Post Number: 52
Registered: Mar-05
id try aiming the drivers side tweeter at the passengers seat. i always got better imaging that way. aimed right at you its too loud compared to the passenger side one and much brighter/harsher.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 2278
Registered: Nov-04
TraGedy, is your component 3-way system? You mentioned the woofer near the bottom of the door. Is the one on the dashboard, midrange? If that's the case, you would want the tweeter as close to it as possible.
What kind of car is that? Somehow, your dashboard has a lot of room for installation. Mine is very limited.
Have you thought of installing the tweeters on the dashboard near the windshild where it dips? There seem to be enough space there (on your first picture, look at the front of ring bracket).
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 3650
Registered: May-04
It's a Scion something or another, can't remember which car. You shouldn't have a big problem with imaging of the midrange and tweets, on the A-pillar it will integrate well, just play around with it until you get the angling right. Don't know if there is enough depth behind the pillar, though, make 100% sure of that before cutting. A bigger issue would be the pathlengths between the left and right speakers up there. I'd also think about the woofer integrating with the mid, but it won't be quite as bad as some 3 way systems since they crossover at 350hz, which is relatively low for a dome midrange. You can play around with polarity of the mid and tweeter and see if that helps.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tragedy

San Jose, CA

Post Number: 204
Registered: Feb-05
DLS Ultimate Iridium 6.3 component setup..
i wanted to go with the 8.3 but i didnt want to get into more work of enlarging my door opening for it to fit.

Issac the only thing about installing the tweeter right where the dash dips next to the midrange is that on the passengers side the airbag is located there.

Jonathan the tweeters are not swivel tweeters so the angle they are installed is how they are going to image. Not sure if that is what you meant by "just play around with it until you get the angling right."

the bigger issue of the pathlengths between L a R speakers up there refers to what? and you also mentioned playing around with the polarity of the mid and tweeter..? switching neg and pos? whats this compensate for?

I couldnt exactly find the crossover points of x-overs but here are the speakers freq. response

6.5" woofer : 55-5000Hz
3" mid dome : 250Hz-8kHz
1.1" tweeter: 1-25kHz

so are we agreeing that installing in the a-pillar would be the best bet vs a more direct angel to the listner in eash seat?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mixneffect

Orangevale, Ca. USA

Post Number: 18
Registered: Apr-05
Is your concern imaging, placement, or esthetics?

For imaging purposes it is best when you have the woofer on the bottom, the mid in the center, and the tweeter on top. Keep these components as close as possible.

For placement (available space) you will have to be the judge on that. It is your vehicle and you may install them wherever you want. You may decide to scoop out the dash because it is more convenient for you. I don't know. (I'm being sarcastic here).

For esthetics it is best to go with the flow, or go completely custom. It's either one or the other. Anything else compromises more than what you bargained for.

IMO I would install the mid and tweetr in the door kick panel because that way you will be getting sound from relatively the same angle.

Sound is best when it comes from about 30-60 degrees off center in a stereo mode. This angle allows the sound waves to enter your ears almost straight in, compared to listening to it coming from in front of you.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 2279
Registered: Nov-04
TraGedy, have you thought of getting 1" spacer for your tweeter? You can then sand down on one side to get a slant. That way you can aim the tweeters towards the listener. You might not even have to drill the A-pillar with the ring spacer. They're very cheap, $5-$8 for a pair. You can even build your own.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 3652
Registered: May-04
I've seen the PDF on the Iridiums, crossover points are 350hz and 7khz, just so you know.

For the left and right, I meant the pathlength difference between the left and right speakers, this will apply more to the speakers in the dash because the difference is greater. By that I'm saying the left speakers will be closer to you (by a good amount) than the right speakers, affecting imaging due to acoustic phase and volume level of the drivers. Like mixneffect said above, you'll usually get best results with the drivers closer to one another and farther away from you such as in kick panels or low door applications, in some cases with different crossover slopes results will differ, but those components use 12db/oct all the way around. It's all about experimentation though, wire the speakers up and see how well it works together. What I meant by polarity is reversing the leads, sometimes (especially with the midrange driver) it helps imaging to reverse the leads, be it on one side or the other, you just have to tinker with it.

With the angling, like Isaac said, you could install a spacer, or it could be as simple as just fooling around with location, not limited solely to the pillars.

With 3 ways, the most important drivers for imaging sake are the midrange drivers, this especially applies in the case of the Iridiums as the cover 350hz-7khz, which is the intelligence range of the music. Midbasses and tweeters are also important, but not affected as much by pathlength differences.

On a side note, midranges in the dash can work well if implemented properly. It is dependant upon the vehicle, but check out www.elitecaraudio.com, if you register you can see pictures of an S-10 that is basically the same setup as yours, except the midbass drivers are in kicks. Can't remember the guys name, but he won IASCA comps with the setup. Usually it works best with smaller vehicles, an S10 isn't that wide so the right speakers aren't as far from you as they would be in a larger car.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tragedy

San Jose, CA

Post Number: 210
Registered: Feb-05
i am going to try and squeeze in the kickpanel the mid and tweet as you guys suggested. my question is do i have to seal the two off from each other or can the mid and tweet share the same air?
 

Silver Member
Username: Tragedy

San Jose, CA

Post Number: 211
Registered: Feb-05
nvm DLS support emailed back.. gotta love the time difference
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