Whos the best?!!
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newb | ive only been researching car audio for a few weeks now but i was trying to get some more opinions regarding subs. Im assuming JL is probably one of the top ones but what about crossfire, phoenix gold. Rockford and Kicker is known for good SPL right? Alpine type rs, polk/momo. so whats the best as far as SQ? plz contribute. |
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| depends on what you can afford and what your ears prefer, as well as the sound or box style you're after. Kove DD MMATS RE Onyx Mobile Audio Adire JL's W7 line Diamond Audio |
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newb | hey glass whacha think about a 12" tantrum phoenix gold sub in a sealed enclosure, is that decent? I think its 350w rms, 4ohm. i was gonna get a PG octane amp to push it. its peak rated 1500w @2ohm so i think thats about 375rms @4ohms. |
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New member Username: CutlasPost Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | Hey JL is awesome for subs and so is rockford fosgate. Phoenix gold does know how to make good subs but the best thing they make is amplifiers they rock. |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 | Phoenix Gold was a pretty good company about ten years ago. since then they've been bought out, and moved overseas, like PPI, and no longer make very good stuff in my opinion. I'm not that fond of RF either though. Good stuff ten years ago as well.. now? mediocre at best. |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | i like the JL w7's too but i cant afford to spend $400 for a 10" sub outta the ones u listed, r any of them around $200 for a 10 or 12" sub? hmm so PG isnt that good eh. im assuming PG is better than sony xplod? is crossfire better than PG? Thx |
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New member Username: HydroPost Number: 6 Registered: 12-2003 | Chas D u can get some Adire Audio Shivas for about 125 bucks a piece and they can out perform 90% of the drivers on the market today |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 | hydro, (i tried to find the JL's u suggested in stores but they were asking $290 for a 10". i was hoping to buy it from a store vs the internet) alot of good reviews for shiva. couple questions: 1)its an 8 ohm sub, most car amps r 4or2 right? that means i would have to run 2 of them in parallel to get 4 ohm load? i was only planing on buying one sub. 2)could u explain the difference b/t single and dual coils? the dual takes more power to push right? 3)Pmax is peak output? if theyre 375w max per coil then approx 175-200rms? thats not much is it? thx |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 28 Registered: 12-2003 | good call I was just about to say Adire. heh look at the Shivas. fantastic subs. and yes, PG is still magnitudes beyond Sony. PG won't fall apart on you.. they just aren't real performers. Sony.. you may as well bend over and grab your ankles. |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 | hey glass i read that crossfire holds the world record for SPL(may be old info). but a guy at a local shop told me that PG is better than CF. Do u agree? |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 50 Registered: 12-2003 | Personally I'm not into SPL competitions. I can hit over 150dB in just about any vehicle I set up, which is more than loud enough. I aim more for sound quality and install innovation. I'd rather have a really clean system than one that is 2dB louder than everyone else. Guess I'm just getting old. heh Crossfire makes good amplifiers, for the lower to middle price bracket. PH's older amplifiers were really nice overall. As for their speakers, for the price, there is better stuff out there. |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 4 Registered: 12-2003 | i agree, considering that anything over 90 db can cause hearing loss lol. actually im looking into my 1st system. originally i wanted a 10" in a sealed box cuz i like tight bass(not flubby). but everyone says that 12's r much better. i was really into PG cuz they were price comparable to rockford in stores and despite all the rave reviews in this forum for them i didnt like RF that much. but i definitely wanna listen to some shivas. unfortunately the closest dealer is 4 hours round trip(road trip time). i figured CA would have more of them, "shrug". so glass what do u drive and what do u have in it right now? |
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New member Username: Its_bacon12Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | glasswolf, tell me your opinion on my subwoofer since you sound like you know what ur doing and since i'm only 17, i have no idea what im doing....well im going int he right direction i think- aw1208t audiobahn 12 inch sub handles" 1500 wrms 3000w max,2 ohm DVC's, 280 oz magnet i paid $ 200 for it then $200 for a custom 3.3 cubic foot ported box for it, it sounds great but i need a good amp to push it, i only have a Boss audio r2200d amp pushin it - looked like a good buy for the price tell me whacha think, im open to criticism |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 54 Registered: 12-2003 | ehh generally I'm not a big audiobahn fan, myself. a lot of people seem to like their stuff though and in the end, if you like how it sounds, that's what really matters. sound is subjective, and while one person may love a certain speaker, another may very well hate it. You could do worse, and could probably do better, depending on what you can afford. I know being 17 means short on cash generally speaking so it's not like you can probably run out and drop four figures on an audio system.  I try to keep that in mind when suggesting things. As for the Shivas, it's worth the trip. I had to drive over 3 hours to get to the closest martinLogan dealer for my home speakers, but when they were $6500/pair, I guess the distance doesn't mean much. They were worth every penny and every mile though and I'm glad I went to audition them. My setup.. I have it on my site: http://www.wickedcases.com/HT/iascamenu.html I also have a few other systems I've done in the past for other folks that I got a few pictures of: http://www.wickedcases.com/caraudio/ |
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New member Username: HydroPost Number: 8 Registered: 12-2003 | Ok chas d to answer some of ur questions THe Shivas Come in Dual Voice Coil 1.yea u are right if 2 8 ohm SVC subs are wired in parallel they will make a 4 ohm load where as if it was 2 8 ohm DVC wired in parallel it would be a 2 ohm load. 2.Dual Voice Coils are just made for more wiring flexibility so u can lower the impedance and increase the power from your amp. 3.Pmax is Peak Power and Im not sure what the rms power is on the subs off the top of my head but the key factors are Xmas and Fs when it comes to subs not how much power they can handle. |
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New member Username: Its_bacon12Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2003 | wow im extremely impress glasswolf - tell me, what would you reccomend to push that amp? im running i think 1800 wrms to that sub right now and i dont know if i want to or not.....might blow the sub but it might be able to handle it? oh and btw, i wanted to ask - what do you think of those new lightning audio power subs? theyre like 1000 wrms and 3000 wmax very impressive subs but are theya ny good is my question? anywez, i gotta go to bed im tired later guys thanks again glasswolf |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 62 Registered: 12-2003 | Hydro is right on the money there for his information. SVC and DVC has no effect on the actual sound. It's just for wiring options. That way you can match the sub impedance(s) to the amplifier being used to get an ideal load and power output. Ok if each sub is 2 Ohms per coil and DVC, you want to have two of those subs for an ideal 2 Ohm load. each pair of coils in series, each sub in parallel on the amp. Since money is tight, the JBL BP1200.1 would give a true 600WRMS per sub that way, which means 100A of current draw. You'd be talking a new alternator in the car for that much power as well to avoid clipping and damage to the subs and amp as well as the car. Lightning Audio is a subsidiery of Rockford Fosgate. Their amps and speakers are pretty cheap, and not the greatest things in the world, but they work. Keep in mind, magnet weight, and power handling don't always mean louder. If the box is built well, and the sub is efficient, it will need less power to get just as loud, and a magnet being too large can also cause problems. Personally, I prefer a lower powered system that's well put together. It can still get loud, but it doesn't suck up all the power that these high powered SPL systems do. That Festiva, while using a total of 820WRMS between both amplifiers, still hit in the 151dB range in IASCA events, so power isn't always a measure of quality or even SPL in most cases. just something to keep in mind. |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 5 Registered: 12-2003 | it must be fun to be an installer and work with this stuff all day. i guess physics can be fun lol. by the way nice stuff glass, i guess IT is a great field to go into! so for the shivas, theyre 8 ohm per coil? so if i only run one sub, since theyre dvc it will be 4 ohm? xmas and Fs(frequency?) ok ill keep that in mind. so RMS means nothing? btw, whats the advantage of a custom box?(its designed according to recommended specs/cu.ft. of ur sub and u can control the aesthetics/exterior?) well ill definitely take a trip to check out those shivas next weekend! thx for the help glass and hydro. |
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New member Username: HydroPost Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 | Yea Chas d ur right with all those questions |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 66 Registered: 12-2003 | Being an installer can be fun at times, but mostly it's a lot of work, and most of the time it's simple stuff like putting some cheap radio in some soccer mom's minivan to replace her factory one she spilled coffee on. Unless you're the senior installer you don't get to play with the big installs most of the time, and those prove to be a lot of work anyway, and since most installers are paid for piece-work, you lose money on those anyway. Physics can be very helpful, yeah. The more you go into acoustic engineering, the more math and physics you use. My degrees are in Electrical Engineering and English, so the former helps quite a bit. I believe the Shivas come in dual 4 and dual 8 Ohm coil versions, so with one sub, use the dual 4 Ohm version for a two Ohm sub when wired with coils in parallel. Xmax is maximum excursion, or how far the sub travels forward and back. This combined with the surface area (diameter of the sub) will translate to how much air the sub can generally move. That's your SPL. Fs is resonant frequency. The lower this number, the lower the sub will generally hit without rolloff, and the lower you can tune the ports if the sub is in a vented enclosure. You never want ports tuned lower than the Fs of the sub. RMS power handling of a sub is a measure of how much heat the coil(s) can dissipate without causing damage to the sub. It's a mechanical measurement really. More power doesn't always mean louder, so you want a sub with a good Xmax, and an amplifier with a power output matched, or very close to that of the sub's RMS pwr handling rating. a custom box is built to fit your particular vehicle, and 9 times out of 10, it will be built far better than the cheap prefabbed boxes liek you see in BestBuy. Building a box by hand, usually equates to things like speaker terminals, cross bracing, custom fitting, custom coverings, and so forth. It's like anything being tailor made for you.. it'll be a better fit to your particular application. Usually, better materials are used as well, such as 3/4" MDF or HDF, fiberglass, and load-bearing 1" lexan. None of these materials with the exception of the MDF, are cheap or easy to work with, thus you rarely see them in prefabbed box sales. Few companies like JL Audio offer some very good premade boxes for their subs like the W7 line though, but you'll pay dearly for those either way. |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 6 Registered: 12-2003 | cool, i think i understand, nice explanation. |
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New member Username: Gostboyee4zxPost Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | I just bought a Rockford Fosgate RFX9100 Head unit and am pushing 2-Kicker CompetitionVR 12" subs. I was thinking about buying a Rockford AMP my friend only wants 400$ for it its a 1250 Watt amp. Does anyone think its a good idea?Please email me with ideas....also I need to find blueprints for a box, ported or seald what do think? 94 saturn 4-door.... -Brandon |
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New member Username: HydroPost Number: 15 Registered: 12-2003 | Brandon thats not a bad deal for tha amp but If you have kicker subs u should get a kicker amp to compliment ur system plus Rf isnt that good compared to Kicker nowadays.I found an amp that would work perfectly for those subs its the Kicker 800.2 2-channel amplifier when its bridged it puts out 800x1 that would be 400 to each sub assuming ur subs are Dual 4 ohm I would wire them in series to make a 4 ohm load and just bridge it to the amp.Go to this website to get the kicker amp for 307 bucks. http://thewholesalematrix.zoovy.com I usually would say go with a ported box for ur system but for the CVR's I think they sound better in A sealed box just what u like go for it. |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 7 Registered: 12-2003 | i think the shivas only come in 8ohm dvc according to their website, i could be wrong. but anyways, i was trying to look this up before i asked but still not sure. can a single dvc sub be ran off a mono amp or does it have to be 2 channel? Either way what do suggest to push a single shiva? Does crossfire or phoenix gold make anything compatible? |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 93 Registered: 12-2003 | DVC is just for wiring options. when you have two coils, you will wire the coils together in series, or parallel to get a resultant load of double, or half of the impedance of either single coil respectively. I was recommending the Shiva line due to the low cost. Look at their other subs as well. Anything Adire will be good to you. |
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New member Username: Josh_hellerPost Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 | you know, i must say the price of the w7's are high. I see the 10w7 sold in stores for around $550. i have one, but i never would have been able to get one if i hadnt gotten such a good deal on it. a stereo store had it on sale last december for $350 as a new years special. i was really fortunate for getting that deal. that sub is the best sub i have ever heard in my life. |
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New member Username: 01gsxrPost Number: 6 Registered: 01-2004 | How about sound streams Davinci dv12 subs? |
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New member Username: Gostboyee4zxPost Number: 7 Registered: 12-2003 | I hate Sound Stream, their old stuff used to be great, but they went down hill. Im not sure about the Divinci's So if I were you I would just call a Tech, or look up the spec's and see what the SPL's are and all of the other spec's. Their techs will be willing to mail you a list of the specs |
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New member Username: 01gsxrPost Number: 17 Registered: 01-2004 | Brandon why do you hate sound stream? you never herd the dv12. And what about the humanreign and the tarantula amps there a work of art,and kick a$$ to.Every line makes some ok products and some great ones to.The humanreign and tarantula amps are great.The DV12 I no nothing about they could suck are they can be great, thats wat Im trying to find out.Im not intrested in spec,they mean $hit. I want real life situations and setups.People who have herd them in cars or trucks. |
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spl Unregistered guest | rockford fosgate team rfs are the i have ever heard they have the highest spl and can drag the 13w7s and the kicker solo c 12" |
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the loudest Unregistered guest | the team rf is the loudest i have heard to you cant breath with one of them in your car its twice as loud as the 13w7 they just move to much |
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rd Unregistered guest | jl sucks |
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New member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 626 Registered: 12-2003 | I suppose, if all you care about is SPL. I've never been a fan o ffifteens. the JL 13W7, properly powered, and in the right box, will sound much better for sound quality, and two of those should be more than anyone realistically needs for listening to music. That is, unless your only goal is to annoy everybody outside of your car, and then all you're doing is giving this hobby a bad name anyway. |
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New member Username: Daniel_sPost Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 | Kicker has one of best spl........just need a lot of juice to power those things... |
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loud Unregistered guest | rockford fosgate team rfs could dominate any sub. Its 2000 whatts rms and 4000 peak it has the newest world record for db and a unblevable spl |
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New member Username: NewbPost Number: 66 Registered: 12-2003 | loud, whats the db record the rfs hold and when? |
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New member Username: Woodhall2Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2003 | youre a load of f.ucking w.ankers |
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New member Username: GazPost Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 | well sed woodhall |
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Anonymous | I have a really good way to resolve all of the fights over what co. have the best subs amn stuff.... go to a comp. and hear them!!! simple....no? |
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New member Username: Gostboyee4zxPost Number: 8 Registered: 12-2003 | I have never heard the DV12's from Soundstream, but I am going to the stereo shop next week to buy some new 6 1/2's and I will check them out. I am guessing the DV's are the Soundstream Divinci's. I am for now, just pushing my 2 Kicker CompVR12's with only 2 rockford fostgate 200 watt amps, and they are just fine untill i get my new amp. But my friend just picked up the OrionH2 12" its specs are 8,000Watt RMS and 10,000 watt peak, and It makes my heart skip a beat and my brain jiggle so much my balls tickle -Gostboyee4zx <--AIM |
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New member Username: Gostboyee4zxPost Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 | Oh yeah and Hydro, my kickers aren't Dual-4 ohm, they are the Dual 2ohm version.... -Gostboyee4zx <---AIM |
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Hooka Unregistered guest | OrionH2 12" its specs are 8,000Watt RMS and 10,000 watt peak <--- that is so wrong! You will always get a good debate going on what sub, what amp,which comp set it the best. Phuck best, it is what are you able to afford and what are you willing to spend. If we had the money to get the "BEST" we wouldnt be on this board asking people, we would just go to a store and tell them hook it up, and if it sucked we would tell them un-hook it up. I can get a sh*t sub and put it in a good box and amaze people. Too many peeps today focus on bass and have some shi*ty staging going on. A few cats on this board have it right, whatever you think sounds good is good for you. who are we to judge what other people like? Also what gets me is people saying "back in the day THEY used to be good." Newsflash! Technology moves forward in leaps and bounds, I would love to run up on someone who swears that their sub or amp from 1987 is better than most today. Even back in the day. most sh*t was not made over here, those little kids overseas were still making the guts of all the amps, sending them over to the states and they were "ASSEMBLED" in the states. By no means am I saying I am a sound guru, but I know my sh*t. By the way I Love the way Davincis sound http://members.cardomain.com/hooka |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 1356 Registered: 12-2003 | I'd take that bet. I'll put my Orion SX series amps up against practically anything on the market today, and they were built in the US, in Tempe, AZ. I've stood in teh factory. That was when the amps were hand tuned, and each amp was signed for the customer. Not built by little kids in Taiwan like they are now to save money. Just teh fact that they still work 15 years later like they did out of the box says something for build quality. When you're an electrical engineer, and an MECP master installer, and you have at least 10 years experience under your belt to go with that, then we can talk specifics on component selection for building an amplifier. Just to gloss over a few differences between "most amps" and high quality ones though, you want to look for things like a power supply that's rated for at least three times the power it'll actually handle. You want to look at damping factor if the amp will drive subs, you want all milspec components used throughout, as well as gold plating for any exposed terminals to avoid oxidation, good heatsink design sufficient for the heat produced, but not too large to "look" better. Until you spend time on a bench repairing tehse products it's difficult to really have a good idea of what you'r etalking about when it comes to knowing a good amp from a cheap one. You want to know the truth? Not much has changed in car audio technology over the last 15 years. SMT has helped in miniaturization for ehad units which has helped out in areas like cramming more features into a head unit. We have DVD and MP3 for a source now.. but amplifiers are still built the same way, with varying degrees of quality, and speakers are as well. They are still magnetic transducers. Nobody is really using much of anything that couldn't be found in cars ten years ago in regards to design. Class D amps have gotten cheaper, and more common, which is why systems are so much higher powered now, and that's just due to the drop in cost to produce the electronics over the years. sorry if that stepped on your toes at all. for the most part I agree with you. |
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hooka Unregistered guest | Dont worry about my toes, I have none. Just like all start up companies that want to make a name for themselves, they will do anything to stand out from the pack until they are on their feet. If that includes running some people through the factory and putting a signed amp in their hand, then that is what they will do. You and I could talk amps all day, I would gladly yank one of my fathers "Milbert BaM-230's" out of his car and put it against any amp on the market today for clarity and purity, including your Orion. For sound clarity, there is no other substitute for a tube amp. I'll agree with you about quality, there were some things from the yesteryears that were worth saving. However, VERY few people these days want to hear the artist take a breath before a note, or hear the artist walk away from the mic before the board is faded out. That is something that I have experienced and it is very amazing. But I would be foolish to say that a Milbert could drag against a McIntosh MC4000M. Sound for Sound, watt for watt those same amps we love form yesteryear cannot compete on the power level we have today. I can also gather form your comments about being an electrical engineer that you assume you are the only one qualified to understand the complexities of an amp. I build amps for fun, nothing major, nothing extreme, however they work and they are very pure. I know housing is held to be beneficial because the transformers introduce mechanical vibration and have a magnetic field, I know to insert resistance between the secondary outputs of the transformer and the rectifier bridge. I think resistors should be rated at 5 amps or more. Usually 10 ohms for preamps and 0.1 ohms for power amps and I use ultra-fast, soft recovery diodes in the rectifier bridge. I do not have to have any special qualifications to debate you or anyone about amps and amp building. Electronics is my major and amp building is fairly easy once you understand the electronics. Mobile Audio has advanced greatly over the last 15 years. True, amps are basically still built the same way, However, the copper has been made more pure over the years, circuitry has been improved and is less resistant, it is free flowing and heat resistant. Speakers and Subs have made leaps and bounds. Yes it is obvious that for the most part speakers will be round or oval that much hasn't changed for sure. However, not to long ago one drop of a screwdriver on a sub cone and you had a hole. I mean who would have thought we would have Kevlar injected cones, aluminum cones that didn't break the bank, quad V.C.'s, field replaceable cone assemblies, more 1000rms subs than I can shake a stick at? Back in 1987, a young person could not go to ANY audio store and be taken seriously about buying a system for the simple fact the cost of getting a system that actually made your rear view mirror shake (big thing back then) would have cost an arm and a leg. That's another FACT that supports my claim of this industry making huge jumps. These days you can get a complete decent system for less than $500. I'm not saying that it is a "name brand" system but the average kid would be very pleased with it and it would sound good, Audiophile good? NO!!!!! Pleasing? YES!!!!!! One more thing, I don't like to name drop but my father has a college friend, and his name is Michael Chass and I believe he would also take the stance that this industry has made leaps and bounds. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 1382 Registered: 12-2003 | I'll keep my Krells and MartinLogans at home for accuracy. " For sound clarity, there is no other substitute for a tube amp." Ok this just proved you don't actually know much about amplifiers. Vacuum tube amplifiers produce a lot of even ordered harmonics (distortion) and are the least "accurate" amplifier you can buy. People prefer them because they like the warm sound of the distortion produced. This is why they are popular for guitar amplifiers. If you want to learn a bit about amplifier classes, here's a good article on them: http://pub14.ezboard.com/fcaraudiotalkfrm27.showMessage?topicID=35.topic Orion wasn't making a name for themselves in the early 90s when they were producing signed amplifiers. They were the top amplifier comapny in car audio, along with PPI and RF, all three of which were founded by the same people. " But I would be foolish to say that a Milbert could drag against a McIntosh MC4000M." This is true because you comparing a tube amp to a SSA class-AB amp. Not due to any technological advance. By the way did you know McIntosh Labs is owned by DMC now? Parent company of Denon/Marantz? Oh, on that note about hearing detail, I happen to like that. I've noticed that with some tracks by Tori Amos, I can hear her foot hitting the pedals of the Steinway grand piano she was playing at the time of recording. I can also tell it's a hardwood or laminate floor under her foot. You contradicted yourself. You said no special knowledge is needed to understand amplifiers, yet you're an electronics major. Trust me. Without the proper education and experience, nobody would be able to open an amplifier casing and identify any of the guts of an amp. Not you, myself, or anyone else. You got the knowledge somewhere, just like I did. In my case it was doing bench repair for the mobile audio shops where I worked. "owever, the copper has been made more pure over the years, circuitry has been improved and is less resistant, it is free flowing and heat resistant." Well, actually, copper is still about the same @ 99.8% purity, and anything higher is rarely used due to cost. As for the other factors listed, I mentioned those. See my reference to "SMT." " Kevlar injected cones, aluminum cones" These are just changes in material, not speaker design. 10-15 yrs ago, they were treated paper, or poly cones. most still are to this day. Al and Kevlar cones aren't made to be stronger to resist a klutz with a screwdriver though. The purpose of these materials is for cone rigidity to resist cone flex and distortion at high excursion, while reducing weight and mass to keep the speakers responsive. very few subs offer field replaceable coils. maybe 3 or 4. quad voice coils are strictly a means to use more power, and DVC has been around for decades. regarding the power handling, that's merely a thermal rating for how much ehat a speaker's coil can disburse without melting, and there have always been high powered subs. Look at the Orion XTR line. 1991, and rated for something like 8Kw RMS. On the subject of price, I also already noted that class D amps, and manufacturing costs have made it cheaper to get more power, but the systems are still basically the same. I built my IASCA car in 1989, and for about $5,000 in hardware (including the alarm, alternator, etc) I was hitting 151dB with a perfect C-weighted soundcurve, and there were still plenty of kids driving around with some Pyle or Pyramid subs and amps cranking them up with lots of nasty (odd ordered) distortion. I'm not sure how old you are, but maybe you just didn't live in the same area, or weren't old enough to remember the 80s first hand. They weren't the dark ages. Yes, I can namedrop if you want to play that game, and I could mention friends like Rick Clark from OCSW who I used to compete (and drink) with back in the day, and while I do appreciate your views and opinions, and they are just as valued as anyones', I do still respectfully choose to disagree with you on several of them. Sure some improvements have been made, and there is still plenty of great gear being made, but jsut because it's newer doesn't mean it's better, and that holds true throughout the audio industry. Look at amplifiers and speakers in home audio. Some of them made ten+ years ago are still considered some of the best ones around. peace |
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Hooka Unregistered guest | ""Ok this just proved you don't actually know much about amplifiers. Vacuum tube amplifiers produce a lot of even ordered harmonics (distortion) and are the least "accurate" amplifier you can buy."" I don't know what you are listening too but if you are enjoying a 60hz-65hz hum in your amps then I am wasting my time with you. Yes tubes are the less accurate but they are the most precise when it comes to sound re-production compared to transistors. The actually tubes warm the sound, there is no other way to explain it. In my last post I practically built you an amp and all the "distortion" is nilled with the soft recovery diodes, but that is in my simple, very clear amp. For you to say I don't know much about amps is foolish. I could build two amps faster then you could build one. "Orion wasn't making a name for themselves in the early 90s when they were producing signed amplifiers. They were the top amplifier comapny in car audio, along with PPI and RF, all three of which were founded by the same people." We can differ on that statement all day; just because a few people liked the sound, or the name or the look, or it was seen in the lanes did not make them the top amp company in car audio. We can debate that all day. If you could get your hands on a financial statement then do it and then I will believe you. ""You contradicted yourself. You said no special knowledge is needed to understand amplifiers, yet you're an electronics major. Trust me. Without the proper education and experience, nobody would be able to open an amplifier casing and identify any of the guts of an amp. Not you, myself, or anyone else. You got the knowledge somewhere, just like I did. In my case it was doing bench repair for the mobile audio shops where I worked."" This my friend is no contradiction, any smoo off the street who wanted to learn about amps and the components to make them could easily do so with 3-4 days of research. This is self-taught knowledge if one so chooses, you do not have to have a DEGREE or have worked on a "BENCH" for 10 years to understand and build your own amp. Special knowledge would be a heart surgeon. You nor I could read enough books to crack a heart and fix it. ""Well, actually, copper is still about the same @ 99.8% purity, and anything higher is rarely used due to cost. As for the other factors listed, I mentioned those. See my reference to "SMT."" And no, you are misinformed about copper, copper back in the days and even copper today is separated by the names "copper" and "high purity copper." Go to any metal fab shop and ask them to buy a sheet of copper and they are going to ask you the simple question. Regular or High. Although high purity copper has been available for many years, recent innovations in the way in which copper is fabricated has greatly improved transformer design, manufacturing processes and performance. ""These are just changes in material, not speaker design. 10-15 yrs ago, they were treated paper, or poly cones. most still are to this day. Al and Kevlar cones aren't made to be stronger to resist a klutz with a screwdriver though. The purpose of these materials is for cone rigidity to resist cone flex and distortion at high excursion, while reducing weight and mass to keep the speakers responsive."" You make me laugh because you split hairs on mundane things. Therefore, I will put it in the simplest terms I possibly can. Without a magnet you have no speaker, without a basket you have no speaker, without a surround, you have a sh*t speaker. Get all the elements that make a speaker and you have a speaker design. If I take an old speaker and replace the shitty paper with my own hardened aluminum cone, I have just re-designed a speaker. I have not re-invented the speaker or invented a new speaker. I have re-designed it. It is also common sense that when companies RE-DESIGNED the speaker they were not worried about people banging holes in the dome. That was a sheer example of how the stronger cones have helped the average Joe all around. You can save the explanations about cones for the soccer moms that frequent your store, I do believe everyone, including myself, on this boards knows the purpose of a rigid cone. ""very few subs offer field replaceable coils. maybe 3 or 4. quad voice coils are strictly a means to use more power, and DVC has been around for decades."" I really don't care how many companies have field replaceable coils, the point being is all of car audio is getting better, no matter what you say or think. I mean who are you? Who am I for that matter? The only person that I know who can answer the question and back it with documentation is my dads friend, for those of you who don't know who Michael Chass is, he is the VP at Boston. And for you to say they don't make stuff like they used too is a statement from someone with a very closed mind, maybe you should stay on the bench. There is crap out there today but all in all there is an abundance of good product and it keeps getting better. Michael Chass, is someone who could give insight on whether or not this industry has made leaps and bounds. You came back with a "I can play that game too." Don't mean to be rude but I am detecting a lack of people skills, and a lot of chest pounding.. You're happy with your Orion, fine. There are plenty of new amps out there that would smash it. You disagree with that? God I hope not. But my first post still holds "Newsflash! Technology moves forward in leaps and bounds, I would love to run up on someone who swears that their sub or amp from 1987 is better than most today. Even back in the day. most sh*t was not made over here, those little kids overseas were still making the guts of all the amps, sending them over to the states and they were "ASSEMBLED" in the states. If you read and comprehend what I wrote, a key word in that paragraph was MOST. Two things are certain though, I can agree to disagree, and product keeps getting better. |
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Silver Member Username: HydroPost Number: 139 Registered: 12-2003 | I have dealt with Lots of Car Audio Products from the early 90's PPI,RF are the 2 I liked the most and I also have dealt with lots of the new stuff like JL Audio,Mcintosh,and Resonant Engineering.I have noticed that the result is the same:Clean Output and very good build quality only difference is Style has changed. |
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Riddler Sensei Unregistered guest | Hey,where in the hierarchy would you place Diamond Audio subs? I always do research into things that catch my eye, and they mention that they use neodymium magnets. Now, I'm familiar with these magnets, and they are damn powerful. Is the use neodymium common in subs, or is Diamond special in using these magnets (because I've seen mostly just ferrite)? And does the use of such powerful magnets enhance the performance? |
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Riddler Sensei Unregistered guest | So....uhhh....no one wants to answer? |
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