Here is a topic for the newbies who dont know anything


This topic i guess is somewhat opinionated, but for newbies to the hobby, would be a good thing to refer to when buying equipment.
I've put this into three sections:

American HiFi (Rockwood)
American Pro
Kenwood (speakers)
LA Sound
Planet Audio
Power Acoustik
Sony (amplifiers, speakers)
Sound Storm
SPL Audio
Ultimate Sounds

Alpine (amplifiers and speakers)
Kenwood (amplifiers, head units)
Lightning Audio
MA Audio
Pioneer (amplifiers and speakers)
Precision Power (PPI) (newer amps)
Rockford Fosgate
Sony (HUs)

Altec Lansing
Ample Audio
Audio Development
Boston Acoustics
Cerwin Vega
Digital Designs (DD)
Directed (DEI)
Image Dynamics
JBL (amplifiers)
JVC Digifine
MB Quart
Memphis Audio
MTX (amplifiers)
Phoenix Gold (some models)
Polk Audio
Rockford Fosgate (some models)
Alpine (head units, signal processors)
Arc Audio
Audio Control
Butler Audio
CD Technologies (CDT)
Diamond Audio
Eclipse (Fujitsu Ten)
Harrison Labs
Infinity Kappa
JL Audio
McIntosh Laboratories
OZ Audio
Pioneer Premiere
Precision Power (PPI) (Art & Power series amps, old)
US Amps

That's a prety good list...

Good Job.

This list is semi-accurate but there are some major things wrong with it.

like i said, everything is subject to opinion. this is my opinion of most brands, and if you dont like it, prove yourself.

I have a question. You put Pioneer under moderate. I have 2 pioneer 15's. I was thinking of selling them to get a pair of RF Punch HX2's and a bandpass box, wise decision?

I was lookin to buy 2 15" volfenhag subs and an amp, but im reconsidering it now after seeing your list, but before i do why do you rate them so low???

Drew S
hey, you put rockford fosgate in moderate catigory and said some models are reccomended. can you tell me what models are reccomended and which models would fall under the moderate catigory. i dont want to get the wrong rockford.

Add Audison to that list for amps.

audiobahn under moderate. HAHAHAH

Derek I.
I'm sorry you guys... but I'm an idiot. There's no way I could possibly know what I'm talking about for each individual brand I have listed since I have never even seen most of them in real life. All I did was go down a price listing of various amps and subwoofers and then switched a few around here and there... Once again, I apologize for being such a moron.

hey derek, i was looking to put some serious beat into a small civic coupe. could u recommend a setup for me (brand of subwoofers, amp, headunit, components, etc.)? price is not an issue. i want to have a very efficient system that causes earthquakes when i'm on the block. thanks.

that just shows how immature people have come to be these days. someone putting my name and insulting my for no reason. how cool are you?? yeah, anyways, on to helping people, the real reason im here.

well, im not too bad at recommending setups, but it will also depend on what kind of sound you want. it looks like u pretty much want spl so here we go.


look into Resonant engineerings X.X.X series, they are completely crazy, and if you had 2, there is no way anyone else in your area would be louder.

same with Monsters DBX series, but you gotta realize that each of these subs is going for around 400 dollars apiece.

headunit: do you want mp3? dvd? for head units look into alpine, alpine makes some of the best head units on the market today.

if u dont wanna go with alpine look into eclipse, the quality of eclipse cannot be surpassed in most cases, you will be pleased.(alpine looks better though) :)

for components, i'd recommend:
oz audios vector2 series components.
MMATS Pro series components.
Kove audio KC components.
Infinity Kappas will do fine too.

amps, i'd say JL 1000/1 since price is not an issue, or ARC audio amps are good too, if u want arc, look into the 1000.2T, its nice. you would be wanting 2-4 of those to run the subs that i've recommended by the way. those X.X.Xs need a lot of power
but they will cost ya again.
if you want the best amp you can get, look into the sinfoni 150.2 x. sinfoni makes some of the best amplifiers in the world, and you will get pure quality out of them for a lifetime.

for the components amp, i'd look into the US amps USX-4065, that will do just fine.

and by the way, whoever tried to insult be back there, saying i dont know anything, and i've had no experience.

1.i worked at car toys when i was 17-19(at 18 i started college and by the time i was 19 i was too into my studies to have a job any longer)
so yes, i have experience with most of the brands i've listed.

no, i havent heard dyaudio, butler, or mcintosh but i've heard enough about them to know they are some of the greatest equipment ever to be created.

do you want me to list off all of the speakers that i've owned? okay, i will.

American HiFi (Rockwood)
American Pro
Planet Audio
Power Acoustik
Sony (amplifiers, speakers)
Sound Storm

out of all those brands that were listed in my first post in the bad category, i have owned all of these listed here. most of them i acquired from customers who were upgrading or friends who did not have the need for a system any more. as for the other brands, i have owned a few by the same means as the bad brands, but most of my experience is from installs and such. I am now 24 years of age and a card carrying electrical engineer.

its cool if you have a contradictory opinion to my own, but dont go around and personally criticize me for my opinion when i am just trying to help the people that need it.

have a good day

yes adam, i put audiobahn under moderate, the lower end of audiobahns stuff isnt too good, but the high end stuff can be nice. so thats why i put it in the middle.

oh yeah, and by the way, how could i have gone down a price listing of amps and subwoofers? where could i find one of these? have you ever seen one? this list was carefully made with thought to it, so dont start b*tching at me for my opinion, which is a general starting point for people who need to get away from buying crap equipment like pyramid, boss, sony, and legacy, so if you think you have the right opinion, make your own list.

hey derek... what do you think about my decision to change from my visonik bandpass to an audiobahn bandpass? they're both around 170 on eBay, so I decided to switch to audiobahn since I thought it was a more respectable brand. Does the ABP12T dual 12" box from audiobahn fall into the "lower end" of audiobahn? And if so, do you think I'd still be better off with them instead of the Visonik dual 12" bandpass? I've heard that audiobahn needs a lot of power, but are people just talking about their higher end line of amps? I was intending on buying that audiobahn intake amp anyways. Thanks

by the way... if I ever blew my audiobahns in that bandpass box or got tired of them for whatever reason, do you think they could be easily replaced in that bandpass setup? Do you know of any other higher quality audiobahns that would accept that bandpass environment or any other quality bandpass suitable subs?

hey derek, in your honest opinion should i get a pair of 12" punch hx2s or a pair of 12" infinity perfects? which has better sq? which has better spl? i hear good things about both so i can't decide which is better. thanks.

i'd go with the perfects in either case, they certainly have better SQ than the hx2s and they are not too bad at all for SPL, so i'd say thats your best bet. the only downside to the perfects is that they are really sensitive, but i wouldnt worry about it, they will do great.

good luck

hey derek. i was thinking about buying a clarion equalizer from a friend of mine for $40. it is the EQS560 model. do you know if it's any good? there aren't many reviews on it. i know there are better equalizers out there, but for the price i can't turn this one down. thanks a lot. you're da man.

most of clarions stuff is pretty decent, i dont know about that specific model, but i'd go for it, it sounds like a pretty good deal, is it 1/3 octave or is it digital?

Hey Derek, nice list, thorough. I am slowly building an average audio system in my car. I have two 3 1/2 MB Quarts in my dash, a Kenwood headunit, and 2 Kenwood 6x9's in the back.(which I think are pretty nice, but I don't have experience with that wide a range of speaker brands.) The MB Quarts are powered great by the Headunit, but the Kenwood's are underpowered. I'm also looking into adding a subwoofer, but first an amp. What would be a good amp to buy that will give the Kenwoods(220 watts max) a nice boost, and possibly power a subwoofer at a later time? (Is it possible to only amplify the signal going to the rear speakers? Or would the amp have to amplify the signal to all four speakers? )--Thanx ahead of time.

well, first off, its lookin like u got a pretty good start there, kenwood is decent and the quarts are nice. well, i'll start u off with a recommendation for an amp to power your 6x9s, and yes, you can amplify the signal to only the rear, just hook up those speakers to the amp.

here is the link for the amp i think would be best suited for your situation, and dont think that the wattage is modest, because theres no way you are going to want to actually 220 watts to each of those speakers.

look at the USX2050 there, its cheap, quality, and will do the job as well.

once you get the subwoofer you will want to get a different amp most likely, unless you are planning on getting a low power woofer. im not thinking you are going to want to take the power away from those speakers once you put it to them anyways so i'd look into the JBL BP150.1 for a small maybe JL w0 sub unless you are planning to go big on the sub that would be great. check ebay for that amp if you want to look at it.

hey derek. I recently got a zx2 and already blew one of my rear deck speakers. I was thinking of replacing them with pioneer TS-A6870R 6x8s (custom fit for Ford) and I was planning on just powering them with my pioneer DEH-1500 head unit... but I was also planning to add one 12" Audiobahn 1200Q sub sealed powered by a JBL 600.1 as soon as I scrounge up enough money. Is this sub going to overpower my rear deck speakers like you were cautioning to George? If so, do you recommend that I add an amp for my cabin speakers or just get a smaller sub and amp combo or what? I am looking for pounding bass... but good bass that will be good for hip hop.

pioneer's newer stuff is a big improvement, so the 6x8s should do relatively fine. before i got a separate amp for my interior speakers i had problems hearing them over the bass. if you decide to run the speakers off the HU you might have this same problem. that sub and amp combo sounds good, but again, you may want to use another amp to power your mids. i usually recommend the usx 4065 4 channel amp for affordability and durability, but the JBL p80.4 is also a good choice for a midrange amp.

Ryan M.
Man when you put visonix under bad you don't know what your talkin about. I will prove myself. Get one 12 visonix put any class D Zeus Hifonik not over 600 watts and you would change your mind. Visonix amps such but not the subs and the hifonik amps are awesome but not the subs. I would probably place both under moderate. Cause one has good subs and the other really good amps.

hey derek i recently bought some plant audio speakers i know nothing about car audio did i make a bad chocie if so what would u recommend to finsh my system off for someone that listens to rock really just wants good sound and isnt looking to be heard two blocks away

actually thats one thing that i could probably change on here, planet audios latest stuff isnt half bad, i've just listened to it and its passable so i'd have to put that into the moderate category. i'd say you are fine with those speakers.

susan wilkins
hey derek. i'm new to car audio and was wondering if you could give me some advice on subs. i already have an alpine class d mono amp that puts out 350 watts rms. i want to know which would be a better decision; a pair of 12" infinity reference subs or a pair of 12" alpine type e subs. those are my only options since they are the only ones available at the local audio shop. i kinda like the type e's even though they're not very popular. i would greatly appreciate it if you listed the pros and cons of each sub and why you would choose it. thank you very much.

are the infinitys the DVC model or the SVC model?

either way, the frequency response on the infinitys is better at lower frequencies than the type-e. it can handle 300 watts RMS(im sure the 350 would be fine but you never want to have your gains at full anyways so it will be around 300)
the alpine can only handle 200 watts RMS.

both have a 4 ohm impedance which you can wire both subs in parallel to get an optimal 2 ohm load.

so overall, it looks like the infinity would be the better choice.

just as a side note, i dont usually trust alpine for speakers too much, i have a pair of their 6x9s and they arent all too special, theyre allright. the 30 dollar polks i got off ebay were better. anyways, go with the infinities, they are great, i've heard them in a sealed enclosure and theyre awesome.

Well hello. I have somewhat of a problem. I have a 1997 Nissan Maxima with a Bose sound system, and I added two 10" subs and a 1000w amp last night. Today, I was driving over to a friend's house, and all of a sudden my sound stopped working. The display on my cd player kept going, but no sound came from any of the speakers. I wonder if you have any idea what could have gone wrong? Thanks

Oh by the way, I checked all of the wiring and it appeared to be hooked up just as it was at first. No loose wires or anything...

check how your speakers are wired. if the impedence on your speakers don't match the amp, then the amp will automatically shut off. if you notice, when you turn off the cd player and turn it back on, the sound will be on for a moment before shutting off again.

Well everything worked fine on my 10 minute drive home last night, and for maybe 10 minutes today. Now, no sound works at all. I tried turning it off and back on, checking all the connections, etc. CD, radio, tape... nothing works.

i'm assuming that your speakers are 4 ohms and are wired in parallel, which brings them down to 2 ohms. some amps are 4 ohm stable. try wiring your subs in series and see if that works.

Hey Derek, thanx for the list. Just got one question. Which one should i get, SONY 6" 200W 3way (XSGT6035) or Clarion 6.5" 160W 2way (SRR1626)? Thanx.

Door mounted speakers they will be.

Hello again. The guy at the Nissan place says that my radio went out. The volume control was already a little messed up at times. The solution comes with two options: 1. Have them ship the whole thing off for about 3 weeks and $150, or 2. go to a junk/salvage yard and pull one from a maxima for about $30. I think I'll go with number 2.

Oh but the fact that it went out had nothing to do with the amp or subs. it just happened to go out then.

Okay here is my situation. I have a 97' Isuzu trooper. Right now i got factory front and back. I have a fairly new kenwood deck. 2 12" mobile authority subs in a bandpass box. Powered by an american pro 800x2 amp. Now i'v got some money and want to do the whole thing over. I want t.v in the front possibly headrests. front and back speakers possibly infinity components trying to use american pro amp for rear speakers. I like kenwood decks had em in my last 3 cars upgrage every 1 1/2 years. But i need dvd capability but i hear decks with screens already in them motors burn out(problem). My biggest problem is my amp/sub setup i was thinking 4 kicker s12l7 but i dont think i will have the power to push it correctly. So what about 2 with strong amp(s) my concern is having a banging quality system. Oh and if you can figure a way for 3 or 4 s12l7's let me know. Oh yea help with the cap too. Thanks in advance.

Derek your opinion is appreciated.No doubt when we all entered the car audio realm we all got an encounter with the over pushy sales sh**head.So, props to you for looking out for people.Hey, just 1 comment about Planet Audio(amplifiers)- I got a 600w 2-channel model 3002 in 2000 and haven't looked back.No lie. This amp is pure man.Hanging out in my hood my friends all pull up with same dilemma; "my sh** just don't sound right?!". I'd take their box hook it up to my amp and pound the hell out of it!(various woofers top of line to various enclosures).This amp has me satisfied and I'm gonna get rid of it soon, so I can get a newer one from planet audio.Also, the boxes that my boys were bringing me were hooked up to all sorts of high power amps(fosgate,monos,kicker,phoenix gold etc.) and after making sure they were wired correctly and still sounded little I hooked them to mine and boom! no problem.Anyway just thought I'd give a heads up opinion on that.Peace!

the good thing about planet audio amps is that they stay clean and don't distort unless you really drive them hard. they provide plenty of clean power and the best part is that they don't cost an arm and a leg. not all inexpensive brands suck. i remember buying a cheap $50 magnavox amp at a yard sale that put out only 200 watts rms; it pounded harder than many of my rockford punch 500 watt amps. there's hidden treasure out there and you have to keep searching for it.

How do you Give advise when you have 6x9s in your car? You say you are a Card Carrying Electical Engineer. What school. I don't know an Engineer who still works as some low rate Car stereo installer. Crossfire is crap. Alumapro is crap. Old Hifonics is awesome. Orion is among the top five. Subs, components, amps. Ever heard a complete HCCA system playing off of a high end Alpine?
The new Alpine components (top of the line) will keep up with almost any component set on the market under $1000. Their newer amps will also keep up with most of the $1000 amps on the market. Don't believe me? Go to a sound off sometime. I mean a real one, try Daytona or LA.
Don't give advise in a field where you are not an absolute expert. I've been doing this for 13 years and I'll never recommend a low class product. You get what you pay for. EVERY TIME.

STRONGMAN-out of curiosity I would like to know what you think about planet audio amplifiers and any experience you have had with them.I think they're great.Never had a problem and always been more than satisfied with mine.Orion woofers have always been easy to roast and no warranty.Just my experience with them.Then again they were orion 12" series 3's and that was 5 yearsago.Earthquake magma is expensive and I smoked 2 of them.Luckily they have warranties.that is my fault because i mismatched my amp with them.Even still I don't have any good things too say about them.Strongman let me know what you think about the new planet audio line of amplifiers.

I've never known anyone with any of the Planet Audio products. Honestly I've never seen any of them, other than advertisements. If you had Series 3 12"s then they were Rockford Fosgate. Unless they were like a Cobalt(Orions better priced models) or something. I have ran the old school Orion XTR DVCs in the past with 300 watts per sub and had great performance with them. Haven't used any of the new Earthquake stuff. I ran 4 15" CPXLT subs off of 2 Earthquake Hohman Series 2150s. The Cast Pro Xtra Long Throw (CPXLT) was the first high excursion sub. Before the original RF Power or the Critical Mass back in the early nineties. Right now I run a single 10" RF POWER HX2 off of a bd1500.1 @4 ohms. My full range is a set of Boston Z6 in the kick panels and an ambient tweeter in the top of the dash running off of an Orion old school 2150 SX. The rear is a set of Boson Pro 6.5" midbass drivers running band pass from 100 Hz up to 3000 Hz driven by another old school Orion XTR 275.
This all comes from a Pioneer DEH8400 head unit(XM is awesome) and a set of audio control EQTs. Want to talk about loud AND clear? Now this SATURN has it under control. This Saturn is my family car. My truck is another story. 8 old school Pioneer IMPP 10"s running off a Phoenix gold MPS2240. "48 watts"..150 DB... Not extreme, just a loud hotrod S-10 with a V-8.

Nice man! Sounds good!(no pun intended!)lol Those Orions were 12" xtr series 3's.I barely got any use out of them and now they just sit in my room on my floor.1 blown and 1 sounding kinda next buys are going to be- 4-channel planet Audio amp 400 watts for my interior sound.The speakers will be 4"x6" cerwin vega and 6-1/2" cerwin vega.I'm satisfied with my woofer setup.Just 1 planet audio 2-channel 600 watt to 2 12" C2 PPI subs and it pounds!Tell me how the cerwin vega sounds for interior sound.I'm not sure of the models of the speakers.My car is a 1991 Infiniti G20 just if that would help you with any interior sound ideas.Thanks!

I have owned CV Stealth speakers in the past, had two sets of 6.5 components up front. I had a set in the doors and a set in the kick panels. They had good imaging...BUT..They just wouldn't hold any real power and the sound was pretty lack luster. If you haven't invested yet you should consider another company. You can get a set of Boston Accoustics Rally series 4"ers for the front and a nice Boston 6.5" coax for the rear. You will spend under $320 for the whole setup. I can never say enough good things about those rallys. They soung GREAT and they last a long time. You should buy the 4" and tweet component set for the front, cut out a plate of 3/16"-1/4" aluminum. Make the aluminum fit the 4x6 cutout and bam, you have round, proper speakers for your infiniti. Your car deserves to get rid of those oval speakers. Any time you can get rid of an oval speaker and put in a round speaker you will make a vast improvement in sound quality.
If you run about 40-65 watts of good CLEAN power to those Bostons you will never look back. Cross them over at 90Hz with about an 18Db slope and run the opposite to your subs, you will be a happy proud man. You will be able to ROCK without worrying.
Good luck.

Actually boston accoustics was a speaker I had in mind.The cv 4"x6" for the front was a plate design not oval.Anyway,I have my car shaking bass,now I want the inside clarity and loud sharp bass.You know what I mean?Me personally,all the installs have always been the same;amp. with woofers,throw some ok aftermarkets speakers inside and let the radio power them.Not this time.This time, I want my interior to hold it's own.Well,actually hold it's own against my box but compliment it with that sharp tight bass.I have some knowledge about the technical like;db and slope,but I definitly forgot most of of right now my system is all "woofer bass" and sound coming out of my speakers.I want my system to be more than just all that rumbling.I want the tight bass for the inside.Give me a hand with this.THANKS!

Jim Strong
If you want a tighter more punchy bass, and more fullrange volume then you are going to have to put an amp on the fullrange. What you need is about 50 watts per channel of good clean power. Never run a decent amp at less than 3ohms, the power MUST stay clean. Find yourself at least a Rockford Fosgate 500x. That will be 62.5 watts per channel by four. Run a seperate crossover network, set it at 80Hz with at least an 18Db per octave cut. This will allow the hight frequency bass tones to get to the full range speakers without overwhelming them. You need a nice 6.5" midbass for the front. Those boston 4x6 plates will be great for the midrange and highs but will really lack in the midbass range. You should get those 4x6s crossed over at about 200 Hz, for the best performance. You can run those with as little as 25 watts of good clean AMPLIFIER power. I don't even use the head unit power and would not recomend anyone to either. It is comprised of "chip amps" and not a mosfet or darlington type. In other words, if you compare the "50 Watt Hi Power" head units to a real amp that puts out only 25 watts, the amp would smoke the radio every time. Put the 6.5" midbasses in the kick panels or lower door, and a set of 5.1/4 in the back and you'll be rockin.

dear anyone who knows a thing or two about car speakers. I am really looking into buying some subs for my car. right now i jus stumbled apon the audiobahn abp12T. is this a good choice to buy this sub box or what else is in the same price range but better performance. plus if i did get this sub box what type of amp should i get. i want an amp thats gona be under 300$. the cheaper the better but i dont want to sacrifice performance. Thank you for your time and for reading my message. Here is my email if anyone would please help me email me. thank you and have a good day.

Alpine and moderate shouldent even be in the same sectence .... just rediculous PEACE

sentence... my bad lol

actually, alpines performance in speakers is not all that great. i mean its all personal preference i guess, but they are moderate to me, and do not belong in the recommended area. now alpines head units and signal processors are top of the line, some of the best you can buy.

and in response to this guy

How do you Give advise when you have 6x9s in your car?"

this shows right off the bat that this guy does not carry as much knowledge as he thinks or says he does. rear fill does not really matter all that much, in any case, it is not completely necessary.

"You say you are a Card Carrying Electical Engineer. What school. I don't know an Engineer who still works as some low rate Car stereo installer."

who said i work as a low rate car stereo installer? ever heard of CAE recruiters? my official job title is "Foundry Business Development Manager" if you really need to know. what school? Henry Cogswell College. enough said.

"Crossfire is crap. Alumapro is crap."

i respect your opinion, but dont know many people who would agree.

"Old Hifonics is awesome. Orion is among the top five. Subs, components, amps. Ever heard a complete HCCA system playing off of a high end Alpine?"

yeah, i've heard most every brand on the market today. and orions newer stuff just isnt nearly what it used to be, especially the cobalt series. old HCCA is probably among the best ever made, right up there with the PPI art series amps.

"The new Alpine components (top of the line) will keep up with almost any component set on the market under $1000. Their newer amps will also keep up with most of the $1000 amps on the market. Don't believe me? Go to a sound off sometime. I mean a real one, try Daytona or LA."

been to many sound offs, havent been real impressed with any alpine products(amps/speakers)

"Don't give advise in a field where you are not an absolute expert."

i could direct this statement right back at you.

"I've been doing this for 13 years and I'll never recommend a low class product. You get what you pay for. EVERY TIME."

ever heard of a good sale or a deal? i got a pair of memphis 6.5s for 60 bucks the other day, clearance sale, brought the guy down from 120 to 60 with no receipt or invoice. you sometimes get more than what you pay for. mb quart is no match for memphis at high levels. period. anyways, im done.

LIKE I SAID BEFORE, THIS THREAD IS SUBJECT TO OPINION, you have the right to your opinion, but dont go around doubting me or my credentials just because i share a different view than you do.


Mona T.
Hey Derek

I need some advice. I wanted to get my boyfriend something for his car. Can you suggest some good products for me to get? I'm looking to start his system off. He only has a headunit now but he wants to start to hook it up. He has a '96 Accord. Any suggestions?

Jim Strong
Idiot... When I say you get what you pay for. Everyone except YOU understood that was the normal price, not what kind of DEAL you were able to get. I have been GIVEN subs before from the old Good Vibrations shop in Cincinnati, OH. That doesn't mean they were crap. They were Kicker Competitions. The old school originals, this was to try to get me to swap out my Pioneer IMPP 10"s. I had eight of them and they gave me the Kickers just to put their name on the window. I kept the Pioneers and only used the Kickers at two comps. This was about 11 years ago though.
Chris S.
Look on Ebay, you can get an Orion 275HCCA for $300. This one of the top three Sub amps EVER produced. You will NOT be disappointed, I'll guarantee this. The Audiobahn Prebuilt boxes are actually pretty nice and will put out some pounding bass. Especially with an Orion pushing them. I am talking about the three sub boxes by Audiobahn. Good luck.

derek have u ever heard of resonant engineering how come there not on ur list...

Hi Derek, thanks for the info dated Sunday, July 06, 2003. Owing to my buget, could u tell me which of these amps is the best value for money- JBL: GTO-6000 - 6 channel amp, or the Pioneer GM-X574 520 Watt 4-Channel Power Amp with Built-In Crossover. I know that both these amps have diffrent RMS outputs, i am intrested to know which one will produce the best quality sound.The sub i will be using is the Pioneer 12" TS-W305c 800w MAX 400w RMS. Thanks for your help.

Jim Strong
I have had the Pioneer amps, all the way from the old GM-255 all the way up to the ODR stuff. The ODR aps were class A and had no output current limiters (besides the actual power supply) and they sounded great even into 1-1.5 ohms. The JBLs have alot more power than any Pioneer but I would still recommend buying a nice used Orion or one of the Car Audio only brands. The pioneer subs are definately adeqate subs and when money is involved they definately hold their own and alot of the time come out on top for the price range.
You can get a NEW Orion 6002 for like $275 on Ebay all day long. That is new in the box, unopened. I know the newer Orions aren't quite what they used to be but they are still worlds better than any Pioneer or JBL. They can be had for the same prices now thanks to the internet. You all need to check these prices and deals out yourselfs. You would be AMAZED, I know I was. That is why I have old school Orions in my car now and I am the happiest man around. You wanna hear loud, come to San Diego and listen to my "Little Family car Saturn." 2400 watts, 9 speakers.

Blaupunkt under moderate...riiiight.

Wow, Derek i though you actually new some $hit but when i see that you put Rockford Fosgate under bad then your just a total moron. If you read up on their amps, in an article FROM THIS SITE, they are listed as one of the most efficient amps that you can buy. Just because they are too expensive for your cheap azz doesn't mean they suck

"Derek i though you actually new some $hit but when i see that you put Rockford Fosgate under bad then your just a total moron."

Fosgate IS crap compared to what they used to be. Any company that lets quality go downhill and buys into the 'max power rating' rage is going to be classified as crap by true audiophiles everywhere.

"Just because they are too expensive for your cheap azz doesn't mean they suck."

Too expensive? LOL! They don't suck because they are overpriced, they suck because they are running backwards in the quality department.

Besides, Derek didn't put Rockford Fosgate in the bad section, he put it in the Moderate section (which is more generous than I would be.)

You saw Rockwood which, if you didn't know, is probably the least desirable amp ever made.

Fosgate subs are pretty good but for the price there are numerous models available that are far superior. Fosgate amps...don't get me started about their newer stuff.

Let's step back to the early 90's and it's a whole different story. Even today the Punch 150 is freaking evil and the Power 1000 (original) will always be a trophy.

Hey Derek

There was a guy above that asked you about the Audiobahn ABP12T and you never answered him. I want to get that too. I dont want to spend too much money had JL W6 12 never got enough money to power them. My cousin has an MTX 6500D with the ABP10T and it pounds. So I want to get that but in 12's with a Sony 1600watt amp. Could you please comment on what you think. Because my cousins pounds and Iam thinking with the 12's it will pound even more. Please respond I would like to know what you think.

hey derek i have 2 bd 1500s hooked up to 2 rf hx2s. I was woundering how i would hook up the amps and subs. Should I hook them up in series or parrallel. And also should i hook up my amps separate or connect them using the bd sync.

Hi Derek, I've been searching the Internet, with no luck, for help with an Optimus AM/FM Car stereo Compact Disk Player Cat. No.12-2154 I need the pin out for the 14 pin connector in the back of the unit to install it.....Any help would be great. Thanks Jay

I was just passing by to see diffrent opinions on all the brands mentioned. My opinion would be Alpine is the world leader in car audio. Other brands wait for Alpine to release their new stuff before they hit with their own stuff.
Now Derek u seem to be very over protective of what ppl saying and u sit there saying "i know this" and "im some wanabe engineer in this field". Get some balls cause you sound like a fairy. You might know your stuff in car audio but ur no engineer. Ive had 10 12" Volfenhag subs in a vehicle we did recently. It sounded mad. I believe if you want quality sound in your car and not worry about SPL then hit your higher end stuff. But if you just want SPL, you can buy the cheaper stuff, still sounds great for cruising and you can thrash them cause if they blow its not expensive to replace. Brands like Volfenhag, Performance Teknique, DHD, etc are moderate not bad. So Derek i think your opinions are very wrong, and misleading people with this list is BAD!! If you want to make a real list get everyones opinion on what they think. This would give a better perception on what bad experiences ppl have had with diffrent brands.
So Derek stop being a panzy and let the brands speak for themselves.

ProMerc, Derek spends a lot of time on here helping people for free. He made it clear that it is personal opinion..."like i said, everything is subject to opinion. this is my opinion of most brands, and if you dont like it, prove yourself." so chill. He is patient with others, answers the same darn questions over and over, knows his stuff and gives honest opinions when asked. He didn't put this board up for giggles, he did so because people wanted it.

Whether or not he is an engineer is a question that neither you nor I know the answer to but I can tell you this much, I am and I agree with most of his list. Much more goes into this than just what he likes, how about warranty service and information availability, broad-based testing and installation flexibility, etc..

Volfenhag does not publish the complete TS Parameters of their drivers (do they even know them?,) there is no available test data showing the charachteristics of these subs with various enclosure designs or even recommended enclosure volumes. That alone tells me that Volfenhag is a half-a$s outfit that does not take this industry seriously. They're a cheap sub that works as well as you can expect for $74 shipped. Their proper place is at the bottom of the 'bad' list, right where he put them.

dude, you suck. Volfenhag kicks a$$.

Hans Doushenbagen
You don't know what your talking about idiot. Volfeng is the king of car audio.

Get the aluminum series, it's worth the extra money.
If you have the $$ get the titanium series.
These subs won't disappoint. They can handle way more power RMS than advertised.
Their voice-coils move a combined height of 2.5 inches. 8o OMG

I am pretty new to this car audio thing. In any case, this is my setup at present:

MB Quart Reference Series 2 Componenent speaker sets for front and rear powered by Soundstream Van Gogh Series VGA320.4, 4x80W rms

For the rear, I have purchased a Kicker CompVR102 subwoofer and wired at 4 ohms. Now I am planning to get an amp to power just this one subwoofer. Any suggestions? I was planning to go for a Precision Power PCX280 or a Soundstream Rubicon II Series RUB300-2. Also another question, can you adjust the amplifier to decrease the power output? Thanks.

hey check this out.. i have a boss riot series rt1035 800x2 amp brigded to 2 pyramid hyper pro 1200 watt 12's in seperate oversized comp boxes in a single cab s10 (luckly i havent blown them cuz im pushing 1600 watts to each sub) and its crazy cuz i think those brands suck and i just needed sumthing cheap to jam 4 a while till i got my real system but this system hits harder than most im my town and newhere i go.. like my friends have rockford and autobahn and mine hits harder... like people hear me bumping across town ! what do u think the deal is on that.. is it my truck size.. my set up, or does pricing not matter in quality

vincent schnortikoff
Im with Dueschenbagen here I have a pair of 12" volfenhags and a chrome 1600w amp, best system I have ever heard. IM 47 and have a PhD in audio engineering, I know whats good and whats not

OK can anyone help me with the pin out for an Optimus AM/FM Car stereo Compact Disk Player Cat. No.12-2154 Can someone tell me where I can find the info?

Hey Derek I was wondering why you put MTX in the moderate. The MTX 9500 is hella nice and I think they deserve to be in the recomended because they are alot nicer then most of those recomended speakers. The 9500 pound and sound hella nice. Please tell me what you think.

Whats up ppl I have just recieved a big bonus check from work and I bought 4 15"X X resonant engineering subs and I went ahead and got the custom Enclosures for aLL of them I need to know what kind of Amps Im gonna need to power them cuz I know they need a crapload of power and my head unit is a alpine cda 9815 so it has preamp outputs(2 of them)

haha, i havent been to this site in a month or two so i thought i'd check back and see how everyone is doing.

to all the volfenhag, boss, legacy, sony, cuspid, pyramid and audiovox people, you can have ur opinion, and if u think ur system sounds better than everyone with quality systems, thats your perception and its great that you are enjoying ur equipment. that doesnt mean that i will support any of the above mentioned brands until i hear/see a companies sub or amp that is actually high quality. i have yet to find one example.

now on to the rest of the people, i'll start with newbie needing help:

regaurding the two amps you have selected, yes, those sound like they would work relatively well in this situation. PPI has been making quality amps for a long time, and soundstream is actually coming along in their development of higher quality equipment, so i would recommend both of those. you could also look into some MTX amps because in certain cases, they may be the best amps for the money. if you decide to buy online, the best one to go with (IMO) would be the JBL BP300.1 go to and check it out. if you want more power than that, in the case of a future upgrade, you could also go with the JBL BP600.1 which is currently selling for around $190.

as for your question about making adjustments to decrease power output, yes, there is usually a knob on the side of the amp, called the gain control. In any situation, it is not a good idea to have the gains set at full so keep that in mind. If you have an amp that is too powerful for your sub, simple, keep the gain down, and be careful not to put too much power to your driver.

next person: T

i put MTX under moderate for the same reason i put audiobahn under moderate, their lower model stuff is of low quality, and cannot hold up with competitors. i know there are some cases in which MTX excels(ie the 9500) but that is just one situation.

on a side note, MTX makes great amps, thats why i have them under recommended. im personally running an MTX amp in one of my setups right now.

next person: Hydro

wow, nice choice in subs there, but how do you plan on powering all of those? lol. your vehicles alternator will not be able to handle the 6000 watts of power that those subs require. you would need to get a 2 or 3 200 amp alternators(yes it can be done, there is an astro van currently in the IASCA competitions i compete in that has 7 alternators)
but it sounds like money isnt too big of a deal at this point, so here we go. i'd look into possibly getting these amps for each sub:
JL 1000/1
JBL BP1200.1
MTX 8100D
ARC audio 900.1D or 1000.2T KAR
or ARC Audio 1500D-R
or you could get the ARK 4000XXK which would be able to power all of your subs. this will cost you some big bucks tho

to everone else that had insults posted towards me, i apologize for whatever i may have done to upset you, but just because i disagree with you doesnt make me less of a person or less of an electrical engineer.

for example, just because you think volfenhag subs are the greatest things in the world and i dont, doesnt mean u have to hate me.

i have my reasons for disliking volfenhag:
1. almost no cone movement
2. bad sound quality(which for SPL guys doesnt matter, but with no cone movement where do you expect to yield big SPL numbers?
3. bad build quality.

and merc, the brands do speak for themselves, its just certain people dont know what to listen for.

yes people im back. its good to be back :)

derek i have a problem and would like you to help me solve it. I just bought a alpine eq and when i hook it up it make weird sound and louder when i step on the gas. Well plz help if you can.

I believe I allready solved your problem,but since your a degenerate retard,than go ahead and believe it is something else.Just so anyone else wonders what my ingenious conclusion was,here it is.THE SOUND YOU HEAR IS EMF EMMISIONS THROWN OFF BY YOUR ALTERNATOR AND PICKED UP BY YOUR SOUND SYSTEM BECAUSE OFF A GROUND LOOP.OR,BECAUSE YOU EQ IS A PIECE OFF SH*IT.

its called alternator whine. most likely caused by running your rca wires next to your power wire instead of on opposite sides of the car. it can also be caused by a bad ground like anonymouse said. check the ground and make sure it is on bare sanded metal, if not, put it there and sand it down.

Sup derek sounds to me like ur a pro at this stuff I just recently purchased A Alpine Cda 9813 head unit and I have got 2 JL Audio 12w3's,there dual voice colis and I was wondering If the amp I already ordered would be good for them its a Kicker 800.2 2-channel amp and my subs can hold 250 a piece If I put all that amps power 800x1 bridged will it cause my subs to distort?Im gonna wire the subs in series by the way to make a 4 ohm load then wire them in Mono.One other question I have some Infinity Perfect 6x9's and I have 5 1/4 infinity perfects in my front doors I want an amp to just power those do u have any suggestions?money is not that big of a deal.

hmmmm, well, i have 2 w3s as well, but my amp is a bit smaller than yours is. Either way, as long as you keep your gains down your subs shouldnt distort. for powering your mids you might want to look into some older orion amps. maybe some sinfoni amps if possible? but theres a couple amps i know of that work just as well: Us amps USX-2064 or the JBL p80.4.

MTX 6000 series has a 4 channel amp i believe, the 2 channel is 6152 but i dont remember the other one.

if u really want me to look into some more suggestions than i have given you then email me and i'll deal with you on a case by case basis.

good luck

vincent schnortikoff, where did you get your "PhD" in "audio engineering?"

I'm super curious....

And welcome back Derek

lol, i was thinkin the same thing moto, i laughed at that for like 5 minutes straight. hahhaha so when we gettin together to make that electromagnetic sub?

Derek whats ur email??????

click on my name, or send email to

Electromagnetic sub?????Thats what all linear piston subs are.

yeah, its kindof an inside thing, were talkin about something completely different.

AHHHHHHHHHH..........Star Trek.I love that show.Dont forget to build the trilithium crystal amp to power the sub.

I've sorta put that on hold for now Derek but I did find a neat source for parts in a posting on this board somewere:

If only I could get a couple of huge class D amps donated to start testing (unless someone has an extra trilithium crystal laying around not powering their replicator...)

Anonymouse, a linear piston sub just has a flat cone...are you thinking about one-a-dem servo subz?

Either way, entirely different concept :c)

You mean linear compression.By linear piston,I refer to any sub that moves a diaphragm by means of elecromagnetic force in a linear motion.You like my link?I have done business with xiangyang a couple of times and they are a great company.I ordered some parts to build a couple custom subs.They dont really like to deal with individuals just looking for a few parts,so I pretended I was a small company looking for parts to build prototypes.Oh,and Volfenfag really does buy parts from them.

If "any sub that moves a diaphragm by means of elecromagnetic force in a linear motion" is a linear piston then every transducer is one...and I guess mine would be too.

Yes, neat link..wasn't sure who posted that but I tried to give props as well as I could.


Ya,but transducer doesnt sound as cool.LOL

Hey Derek,

I am thinking of buying 2 sony xplode XS-L121P5 12" subwoofers and was wondering what kind of amp i should get w/ them that isnt too expensive. Thanks. By the way, I know you've been dissing sony, but if you got any better suggestion for me It would be well appreciated. The reason I chose sony, was because of the price. They're $120 CDN each, so I have a range of $700 CDN for subs and amp. If you can suggest me something good for that price, I would be very thankful, and sorry for not converting the price to US$.

Thank you Derek

I just answered your question here:

hope this helps

steve mcguillicuty
i just bought 2 alpine 12" type r subs. it sounds good but i still think my old system was a hell of a lot better. 3 12" volfs. Man i miss that system. I never thought volfenhag would be better than alpine but it is.

Steve, I guess it couldn't be possible that comparing two 12" subs to three 12" subs has something to do with it? Maybe the three subs were able to pull more power out of your amp than the two subs (impedence change?) Maybe the enclosure is wrong for the Type R's? Lots of variables here and if you're more impressed by the old Volfenhags than the Type R's...something is wrong.

...I'd put my money on two 12" type R subs over three 12" volfenhags any day. If you prefer the Volfenhags, you can get four 12" for much less than the cost of two 12" Alpines. I'll gladly buy and send you three brand new 12" Volfenhags in trade for two (nearly) new Type R's! Just email me!

By the way if anyone wants to know where to get MTX 9500 for just a little over 300$ including shipping. E mail me

steve mcguillicuty
i don't know i bought these subs off some volfenhag expert on this message board. His name was deuchebag or something like that. But this system rocks!

Steve, if you bought subs from deuchebag and he claimed to be an got scammed.

He's no expert, the information he has posted on these boards so far proves that.

Actually, you're probably the same guy using another nick. Keep trying but a $79 sub made out of Chinese parts is still a $79 sub made out of Chinese parts no matter what name is stuck on it.

Comparing Volfs to Alpine Type R's...what a joke.

post number 100, wow, this was not really intended to be that

derik!,lol, i worked @ cartoys also, i worked in dallas,texas, where did you work, our master installer,(darren) brought home 96k in one year, wow, i wish i hadn't moved back up here, that store did btween 140k and 200k+ per month, i was also helped out the hurst,texas location.
i hated the glass window's in the install bay, people watching you work, i didn't like that.
later derik :)

Hi derek as you will see I am totally new to the whole car cd players. I bought a car and the radio/cassette player work fine. They are hooked up to 2 front speakers. The cd is a different story. I can not get it to play. I found 2 wires one coming from under drivers seat and one coming from under gear/radio,etc area. but these 2 wires are not hooked together. Plus the car has no back speakers. Could it be that he unhooked the speaker wires when he removed the back speakers, and is there some way to just hook the cd player up to the cars 2 front speakers? I think he had bought expensive speakers for back and took out when he sold car. and then unhooked the wires. Can you give me any input as to what you might think. the cdplayer is an Alpine 7802.I can't read any of the other letters they are so small. I have done a little research and it must be an older model because it is on no website anywhere, not even alpines~

Hey, I just heard of a new brand that is not on the list. I found it out about this at a flea market. It's called "Xcursion". Has anyone ever heard of this. It was next to some DHD, legacy & power acoustic. So I assume that it's sh*t. But has anyone ever heard of it?

nope, was it cheap in price?

dont worry about it
dude your a fcking retard alpine speakers moderate bull they are good. have you ever heard what any of the things u put on the list sound like?? you cant go by price u deusche

dont listen to him he doesnt know anything if anything i think he is the newbie in here

New to the world of subs, been trying to do research>>>reading, word of mouth, etc. Probably more confused than b4. I heard a lot about rockford but I actually preferred the sony xplod over rockford. One shop I went to only sells crossfire and phoenix gold cuz they said they're the best. And another guy said that alpine is great quality. MTX, polk/momo... Specifically I'm looking for a 10" sub that's reliable, and high RMS for around $200 or so. I know it all depends on what kind of sound one likes but any opinions? Plz rate these subs for me, Thx.

A nice 10" sub to get would be a 10W3v2 JL Audio sub it says it handles 300 but can handle up to 500 without distorting depending on the amp you get and its only 169.99
These subs are rated from 0-10 Mtx Subs-6
Polk Momo-5
Sony Xplod-4
Rockford Fosgate-7
Phoenix Gold-9
Alpine Type R's-7
JL Audio v2 series-10

1. i have heard/used most of the equipment on the list, if i havent heard it i've gotten a lof of feedback on it from friends that are respectable in the car audio community.
2. i have personally heard alpines newer speakers, they are alright, but they cant compare to anything in the recommended category, so alpine stays in moderate, due to the fact that their speakers and amplifiers are just that, a moderate product compared to what is listed in the recommended section.
3.personal attacks on people dont get you anywhere, and certainly dont gain you respect.

-Hydro thx for the great info

-man derek u get a lotta hate mail, lol! u must be pretty popular. i know u put together a pretty extensive list above but specifically relating to subs what do u think of the ones i mentioned/listed? thx.

i am totally new to this, so which do you think sounds like a better deal.
2x Sony 12" 900W Subs and a 760W 2 channel amp,
or an Alpine 12" 1000W sub woth a 500W Legancy amp

hey hydro do u know if the phoenix gold lower end(octane) subs r decent? both the lower end crossfire and phoenix gold subs sounded all right to me but the cf 10's only have 150rms lol.

I believe the PG OCtane subs are capable of handling 250 watts, everything Phoenix makes usually is good stuff but u never know until u go for it and if u dont like it return it.

Smudge the sony deal is better cuz if u get a 500 watt Leagacy amp its really about 200 and pushing that into a Alpine 1000 watt sub will blow it by underpowering it.

cheers, but i have changed my whole set up now i getting a Infinity KAPPABOX12 sub box and a Rockford amp

Steve M.
fu*k you motoman. im not fuc*in doushenbagen. i did by a complete volfenhag system from him. Really. i know its not the greatest but it still rocks

im looking to buy a descent 12 a descent amp a box and an amp kit for my civic. what do you think i should use and how much do you think it will cost me. the cheaper the better but i don't want anything shi*ty

im looking to buy a descent 12 a descent amp a box and an amp kit for my civic. what do you think i should use and how much do you think it will cost me. the cheaper the better but i don't want anything shi*ty

im looking to buy a descent 12 a descent amp a box and an amp kit for my civic. what do you think i should use and how much do you think it will cost me. the cheaper the better but i don't want anything shi*ty

Hey Derek I. What would you describe Cuspid as? Bad or Moderate?

Looking for an amp? I have an awsome amp for sale really really cheap. Iam selling my car so the entire system has to go. This amp works perfect and look like new. Take a look at the website retail price on this guy take a look and read the reviews Dont miss this deal I paid $650 bucks for this amp selling it for $260. Email me back tell me if you are interested.


Whats up guys I found out how loud my system really is today I was just listenin to a new cd I had in front of my house and I had it turned up almost all the way the volume was at 30 it goes to 35 and this lady who lives 3 blocks yes 3 blocks behind me said I made her windows shake at her house and her tv was turned up and she told me to please turn it down or she was gonna complain to the police lol but anyways all I have right now is a JLw3 in a custom fit box and a JL 500/1 amp pushing it,Alpine Cda 9815 Head Unit and Infinity Kappa 6x9's (2) bein pushed by a Us Acoustics 2-Channel amp.Its amazing what the right box can do for your system.

hey guys do you think this would work? I was gonna get one 12" phoenix gold tantrum sub(350 rms, 4ohm) and push it with a PG octane amp(15.0:1)its supposed to be 1500W peak pwr at 2ohms. so im assuming that would be 750w peak pwr at 4ohms so approximately 375W rms at 4ohms. i heard that ur amp should be equal or greater in pwr than ur sub otherwise itll damage the voice coils. does this sound right and will it work? thx

hey everyone. I was looking to buy 2 Kicker Solo Baric L5 12" and i was wondering with that totaling 1200 RMS, what amp would be best for them? And also for this setup, am I going to need a capacitor for this setup? Thanks

New member
Username: Derek_i

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2003
anonymous, cuspid would be described as bad. its right down there with pyramid, boss, legacy etc etc..

newb, the amp should work alright for your sub, is it svc or dvc? either way the amp will work, just remember to keep those gains down so you dont damage anything.

chris, what is your price range? directed, diamond, kicker, JL, and JBL all have great amps in the 1200 watt range. no, you will never NEED a capacitator like i've said before, just upgrade your battery and GND/PWR wires and that should work as far as needing a capacitator. but with 1200 watts RMS there is no way, even with those upgrades that your stock charging system can handle it unless you have over 160+ amps of current coming from your alternator. i'd recommend a new alternator or at least an alternator rebuild to keep up with your charging system needs here.

New member
Username: Liquidsnakeblue

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2003
Hey Derek... How old do you have to be to work at Car Toys? LOL sorry but i'm curious... I seriousally want to get a job there to expand my knowledge about car audio... Thanks!

Also... what kind of experenience do you need to get a job there?

New member
Username: Hydro

Post Number: 30
Registered: 12-2003
I would like to know about that too Derek Im thinkin about findin another job soon anyways.

New member
Username: Zacdavis

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2003
go fill out an app., you need one of two things in order to get a job at car toys, one, installing, or two, sales experience. i worked at car toys 3 years ago when i lived in dallas, great place to work at but i couldn't stand customers watching us work through the glass,(waiting room). ps hey hydro, i hate winter.

New member
Username: Derek_i

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2003
yeah, retail experience is a big one, MECP certification is another one...i believe i already told someone how to get an MECP cert...but check out

that site tells u what u need to know about the cert.

a good thing to do would be to put together a portfolio of some of the installations you have done(wiring, box building, anything that you would need to prove yourself on)

once you have all or one of these, then fill out an app :-)

New member
Username: Motoman22

Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2003
The most impressive thing you can do is wiring, period. 7th order isobaric bandpass boxes are cool and all but solid wiring knowledge is what keeps installs from coming back for warranty work.

The portfolio is an excellent idea but I suggest you stress the wiring end. Photos of neatly bundled wiring, solid grounds that won't come loose, grommet usage EVERYWHERE, soldering with shrink wrap instead of crimp-on crap...these are the skills that impress shop managers and customers alike.

Proper wiring is everything!!! MECP certification is another good idea (First Class certification is even better) *heh*

Derek Idler..are you the good helpful Derek or the poser punk Derek? Hard to tell with this new setup (which sucks)

New member
Username: Derek_i

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2003
I would be the good helpful derek, known as Derek I. on the old format ;) the other guy left a while back, havent seen him 4 a while. but yeah, wiring is big, good thing to focus on.

New member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 307
Registered: 12-2003
I can vouch for Derek here.
I know him elsewhere as well.

New member
Username: Imarolltide

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2003
what do the good older rockford amps look like.I have a punch 200 and a punch 40.thay are black with red writing.just wondering.I have heard that they push lots more than they rated at,if so let me know

New member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 418
Registered: 12-2003
those are the onds.
the older Punch45, Punch150 and so forth.

black, low fins, red lettering.
usually a white RF logo on them if I recall.
should be circa early 90s

jay amaro
Unregistered guest
yes i collect the older rockfords and keep them for my own use but the low finned ones and the square ones with rockford fosgate written out in full in red lettering are bulletproof ok well maybe not bulletproof but if youre gonna shoot a rockford id shoot the ones from the last few years but it looks like they are back on track and the newer amps are more akin to the older ones. im biased because even though i will admit rockford fell off the wagon for a few years my rockfords are older and i havent had any trouble from them in the past 12 years or so ive had them so i guess thats why im still a fanatic.
but i have done many repairs on them and all of them do seem to be from a certain style but here lately i do also have a 2003 model and it looks pretty solid and the circuit design and quality remind me of the old rockfords.
anybody remember when coke went to new and improved then back to classic?
sometimes even the large companies need to fall off the wagon to see what is really happening.
hifonics, orion, alpine, sony etc. all these companies have fallen in and out of the market with excellent to pretty crappy products and actually no company or corporation is immune to that especially when you have a board of directors who make decisions that may not be part of what a r&d team or engineer want a part of but such is life.

jay amaro
Unregistered guest
ok actually after looking at my post let me clarify ive never had to make any repairs to my rockfords i own (5 amps) but for customers i have made repairs on their rockfords.

jay amaro
Unregistered guest
it looks like as of the millenium rockford has taken some serious notice to what the consumer wants and just some interesting reading fyi.

New member
Username: Imarolltide

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2003
I dont really agree with the placement of planet audio on the list,I have had 3 pairs of their speakers and really liked them.thats just my opinion

New member
Username: Derek_i

Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2003
planet audio=boss, im not changing it :-) sorry

Unregistered guest
Old School guy here, trying to get the best sound in my van (full size ford with raised roof, for hauling my quads around)

I built a shelf over the drivers compartment and installed my system on that. Pretty neat set-up. Sounds pretty damn good, but am missing a sound stage and need another set for the front sound fill.

At the moment I have a cheaper JVC head unit (was on sale and played MP3 and had a front input for my laptop for DVD playing...)

MTX Thunder 502 for the sub (with EBC Remote)
MTX Thunder 342 for the rears
Polk/Momo 12 inch sub
Q logic Sub enclosure (set up non ported and stuffed)
Infinity 96031 reference for the rear (in q logic boxes)
Typhoon twisted pair rca's where applicable
4 guage power and ground to everything.
Delphi Ski-fi Sat radio.

Question is this, this system rocks pretty well, and thumps decent... I do need front speakers, and was thinking about componant, or even another pair of Infinities, I don't think I need another amp, as the head unit is rated at 50x4 (uh... what's that about 12 per? lol)

Also, Even though I have an ambulance alternator (not sure of output) and a good battery (Optima) I still get some Headlight dimming at insane volume. I didn't really think I would need a cap with these relatively small amps, but am wondering if a .5 or a 1 farad would make much difference... any advice to tweak this system would be appreciated.

and oh yeah.. all you 12 year old wannabe experts are showing your age with your atrocious spelling, grammar and courtesy... lol..

Peace and thanks to anyone kind enough to respond. QD

Unregistered guest
OH Yeah, here is a quick shot of the set up...

Unregistered guest
Remember, not going for SPL here! this is my Fun Truck, made to haul my quads!

New member
Username: Motoman22

Post Number: 37
Registered: 12-2003
Quad, nice equipment and very creative install. Not sure what you're looking for though, are you looking for a focal point of the drivers seat or somewhere in the rear?

Sometimes the 'Yamahaulers' want the focal point to be in the rear hang-out area instead of the driver seat.

You'd probably be surprised how much better it would sound by simply adding some 6.5" coaxial drivers in the kick panels by your feet (if you're looking for driver-seat focus anyway.) I wish the overhead 6x9's were a little more behind you but I'm sure you can compensate with fader control.


New member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 475
Registered: 12-2003
Quad, if you want better soundstage and imaging, you will want to amp the front speakers to keep up with the rest of the system, even if it's putting them on the saem amp as the rears in parallel.

look at a set of component separates in the doors. This will allow you ideal placement for the soundstage, with a little cutting involved, but that doesn't seem to be an issue for ya.

yes 50x4 is a max rating from a head unit, and the JVC is, in reality, 11wRMS x 4.

The alternator you have is most likely a Lestek, and rated for 150/130A. I have the same alternator out of an ambulance as well, and used it for a system I had in a smaller car for quite a few years. You may want to look at going up just a bit to something in the 160-180A range to take that system.

lastly a capacitor won't help. They don't really serve any purpose. If the alternator is taxed, the capacitor will deplete within about 10-30 seconds (varies by capacity and demand) then the alternator has to work even harder.

I hope I answered your questions, and didn't miss anything.
by the way, please consider starting a new thread instead of tacking new questions onto old threads that are over 140 messages long already.
It takes forever to load this thread just to see one new message. I can walk off and make tea and come back to see the loading complete.

Unregistered guest
Sorry Glasswolf, I am used to

Hmmm, I have been misinformed by the Capacitor manufacturers.... lol, imagine that... The drain is really only noticable when I try to "out bump" the hondas that pull up, wondering where the bumpin is coming from, and why a grey haired old man is driving a loud

The alternator was factory installed, as this unit used to have all sorts of electrical addons, radios, etc, mostly it had a powerful hydraulic pump for the wheelchair lift it used to have (I picked this Van up for $800 at a local metro auction 77K original miles) Not sure what the amp rating is, but its huge, I need to look further into that...

thanks for your input.

Now, Micheal, here is the neat part. At the moment, the enclosures on the Infinitys actually flip up, to direct the sound to the rear, for watching movies, or partying outside, and I can put longer wires on, if I need to move the sound "outside" as they are just snugged into the Dynamat......

Also, the whole headboard (for lack of a better word) will slide back, about 3 feet, to put the sound as far back as I need. Kinda cool. Its still a work in progress...

I am a bit reticent to put speakers in the doors, as I wanted the entire system to be removable if I change vans, but hey, that does sound like the best scenario... I also think I will grab up another thunder342 for an additional set of infinities for the rear section of the van, I haven't completed it yet, but I sure will be doing that (doubles as a bunkbed)

The coolest part so far is to set up two seats in the back, between rides, put a Action DVD in the laptop, flip the infinities into the upright (rear facing) position, and crank it up...... I draw all sorts of riders over to the set up, so far, dust is the only real problem.... :-)

What do you guys think of the Polk/Momo 12? I had very little knowledge and the salesman talked me into it. I am well pleased, but not too sure if it was the proper speaker. I sure like that MTX Thunder 8500!!! but not too sure if I am ready to spend $350 plus for a sub.... what sort of watts would be needed to do one of those justice?? I just may sell the Polk and move up..... lol, too many toys, too little time!!! (And money!)

Thanks again guys....

And oh yea, here is the custom mount for the XM (made and carpeted it all

AND, most importantly, here is the REAL reason for the van....

Unregistered guest
LOL, I just added a Playstation2 and small TV for my boy...... this thing is getting out of hand, you oughta hear the soundtrack from Need for Speed Underground pumped up..............lofl

I also forgot to mention, I have a GPS (Delorme) hooked up to the laptop, just so I don't get lost......

damn this is fun, who says you have to grow up at 42 years old....

New member
Username: Motoman22

Post Number: 39
Registered: 12-2003
Quad, great to see that you're having fun with it. I love the Polk subs, some disagree but from a sound quality standpoint they rock...and one is all you really need unless you go looking for the bumpin' hondas.

The flip around speakers are a very good thing, will make for much more enjoyable listening in the rear...and the sliding shelf, so long as it stays where you put it that's a neat touch.

I'd seriously consider some front stage, either some cost-efficient coaxials or some better-sounding separates. You can cut the doors as Glasswolf suggests and be fine, even make small build-outs for the kick-panels or the doors and avoid any cutting; just layer 3/4" mdf to the desired thickness and smooth it out with expanding foam before covering with carpet or felt or even vinyl to be quick and easy with it...or see if Qlogic makes some 'Q-forms' that you can make fit.

If being able to remove the stuff later when you sell the van is a concern, just use standard-size speakers that you can pick up cheap at Walmart.. pull out the good stuff and replace with some $19 Pioneers before you sell it...will still help the resale value.

You're doing great, be careful on those quads!

New member
Username: Ptown

Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2004
I noticed MTX on the moderate list. Sure, their speakers are crap. Their subs are pretty darn good though. But if you've ever owned an MTX Thunder amp - last years 8302, the 81000D, the 6500D. These amps are SOLID SOLID SOLID. THe sound on the MTX 8302 (150W X 2) is awesome on my Diamond Audio M6 components. And the 81000D pounds the hell out of my 2 12" Image Dynamics ID3 subs (sealed 3/4" MDF enclosure).

Unregistered guest
Thanks Micheal.... here is a shot from the rear with the speakers "up" for rear listening.

OK, I have decided, I am going to at the very least add some front stage... I am just going to put them up front on the head panel..., I am going to get another thunder342 and daisy chain them, OR, should I just get some efficient componants and run them off the speaker outs of the jvc? would 12 watts per side help fill out the front sound stage?...

and now, what componants? Polk?

If I use another Thunder342, I am getting another set of those Infinities, I think they sound great...

Thanks again guys!

(by the way, if any of you mobile guys do the "home thing" my buddy just bought two BP2002TL towers from Definitive Technology...uh....maybe not super high end, but these things freakin pound they were $1100 each I think)

Unregistered guest

sorry wrong link

New member
Username: Griffinmill

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2003
This forum appears to include a number of well-informed audiophiles. While pro A/V and studio gear are my areas of expertise, I'm a total newbie in this arena. I recently bought a Volvo V70R largely because its HU-803 system sounds so freakin' fine - better than factory gear in MB and BMW in fact. Does anybody know who HU is - or who really manufactures the system? Google's been of no help.

New member
Username: Motoman22

Post Number: 46
Registered: 12-2003
Quad, putting them above and in front of you on the head panel is better than what you have now but I strongly suggest that you mount them down low in the kick panels. Here's why:

Ideally, you sit in the center of the vehicle and all speakers are equal distance from your ears. When you have equal distance, the sound gets to your ears at the same time from each speaker...this is good and makes for good imaging.

In the car environment, the seating positions are pretty much fixed (unless you work for Alpine and have their budget...have you seen their new Civic SI? SWEET! but anyways..) The seating position is far from the center and the speakers are at drastically different distances from your ears. This is not ideal and one of the big challenges to car installs, getting good 'imaging' is a trick when you have these different distances to deal with.

If you have speakers mounted on the dashboard at each end and are sitting in the drivers seat, the left speaker is about 3' away from your head and the right is about 5'+ from your head. If you have them mounted in your headboard, the difference becomes even more drastic with the left speaker about 1' from your head and the right speaker about 4' from your head.

Trying to minimize the distance DIFFERENCE is why kickpanel installs are so popular. Simply moving the speakers from the bottom of the doors to the kickpanels by your feet makes very little difference in distance from the operator's head to the right side speaker but it does open up the distance from the operator's head to the left side narrows the gap difference and makes for better imaging.

Kickpanels can be difficult spots to install speakers in. Operator side kickpanels often house the fuse panel/hood release mechanism/parking brake release or more. The passenger side is a popular place for the manufacturers to hide electrical devices (like a computer) and massive wire bundles which are difficult to relocate or re-route. Qlogic found a niche by molding replacement kickpanels that have speaker build-outs formed in so you can mount speakers there without having to mess with all that stuff. You can do it yourself by cutting a new panel out of 1/2" MDF or ply that will mount in front of the OEM panel (use those foam speaker baffles that mount behind the driver for sure) but it won't look as good and probably won't even point the speaker in the desired direction...but it's still better when you realize the distance is much more even between the two sides.

This may be more hassle than it's worth in your case but something to consider. I'd certainly say that decent Pioneer 2-way coax speakers in the kick panels would sound 'better' than really good Polk speakers directly above you and putting really good speakers down in the kick panels is the ideal setup. ...but that's just me :c)

Here's what they look like: 44K100112&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N


New member
Username: Motoman22

Post Number: 47
Registered: 12-2003
Quad, ps... Polk is really good stuff, you won't regret buying it. MB Quart is another super good brand but you don't really have to pay that much to get good sound.

Glasswolf seems to have had good results with a CDT brand (I think) and I've never had a problem with Alpine components...even their lower priced sets and JBL even treated me good. MTX has come a long way lately and there are many other brands to consider as well. Just look around at what's available in your price range and try to listen to them IN a vehicle instead of just on the soundboard.

You've got good taste in component selection, just do your thing!

Unregistered guest
ooooo, those Q forms look cool, but wouldn't last 10 minutes on my kick panels with dirty quad boots and stuff.... I think I may just put another set of infinities in the doors, that would be simple on this big ole van... what do you think? or would componants be better?

New member
Username: Motoman22

Post Number: 48
Registered: 12-2003
Component sets do sound better and it is noticable when properly installed. Infinity Refrence series are a great bargain considering their sound and relatively low price. 2-way speakers sound good too and you spend less than half what component sets will set you back. It's all in what you want to hear verses what you want to spend.

Try to stay away from piezo tweeters whichever way you go. They seem to always disappoint.

Yeah, I can relate to the mx boot thing (hence the motoman22 username.) Seriously, why do we ride until we are so tired that we don't even want to change shoes? (c:

Unregistered guest
Too funny.... yep, when I am done (remember, I am an old fat man...LOL) riding, I don't even feel like pulling off my jersey.... just jump in and drive home....

Old and fat, but still gettin air...




Unregistered guest
Whew, you guys need an edit button on this BB...


Unregistered guest
Not to bad there Derek but the one I think you wrong on is Profile. there Speaker suck yes, but there amps( the California models in particulier)are pretty good for the money. But over all not bad. Adios!

Hey Derek,

I noticed that you put Phoenix Gold in the reccomended, but only some models. Would you tell me what are the better models as well as the good and bad?

-Thanks for your help.

Unregistered guest
You know it has been sometime since I was into car audio. I have recently gor my crave back and this is what I have put together "ALL FROM EBAY and put in a 1979 Olsmobile Cutlass Supreme."
Two (2) Diamond Auido 12" Competition Subs 600 watts rms each and placed in a custom vented bandpass box that is ruffly 6 cubic feet(costed $375.00) and is placed where my back seat used to be. In the trunk is two (2) New Orion P-Serious 15" Subs in a custom Vented bandpass enclosure (Costed $500.00)pretty much all of my trunk. On the 15" is an Orion 250 HCCA (Digital reference 2nd generation) dropped to 1 ohm putting our 800 watts rms. Attached to the Orion 250 hcca is a 1 farad stiffening capaciter I bought at the local Wal-Mart (Its digital and does what it needs you can literally "hear" smoother harder, and tighter bass after its instalation.) On the Diamond Audio 12" is an ORION XTR 2150( Old school with crossover cards)and attached to it is also another 1 farad stiffening capacitor I bought at wal-mart. pushing out 600 watts rms and these subs POUND. In the front is an orion xtr 250 pushing 4 Audiobahn 6.5" three way speakers (These speakers are so loud I cannot even sit in my car with the volume half way up and that is with nothing else playing no subs no tweeters nothing). Then I have a ORION 225r HCCA pushing four audiobahn 3.5" in the dash. ALl wiring done by stinger, all rca's done by stinger. THis has an Awia cd player purchased from sears for $150.00 and a cheap paragraphic equalizer. No whinning, no distortion, close to 3000 watts. Lots of bass, everything matched, music sounds really, really good, done it all myself while working as a dishwasher at minimum wage part-time, going to college full-time. I live in a town with about 70,000 people and so far, no one's car has surpassed mine in bass or sound quality. ALL OLD SCHOOL ORION AMPS. And those Audiobahn speakers, my god, those things scream. I used no componet systems and no "SPecial" things except the 250 HCCA I had to use the crossover on the equalizer for it. ALl the while other people around here spend literally Thousands of dollars on all this crap that dont make a difference really. Just my opinion. All this I got for around 1200.00. I have never seen a Orion 275g4 HCCA go for $300.00 maybe if it was broken, scratched up and cosmetically disgusting. It you have to do it Do it ORION...

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 1021
Registered: 12-2003
You haven't looked at what those HCCA amps cost new have you?
I used to be an Orion dealer, and most of my IASCA system was Orion-based.
The 225HCCA retailed for about $540.
The 250HCCA retailed for about $850
The 2100HCCA retailed for about $1400
great amplifiers though, I agree, but far from cheap.

you really should start a new thread for this though.

Silver Member
Username: Its_bacon12

Post Number: 109
Registered: 12-2003
im thinking about getting an orion 2500d....good investment? bad investment? im looking to run either 2 brahmas, 2 w7s, 4 shivas or 4 e12a.22 (ED) subs and im liking that amp lots...any reccomendation GW?

Unregistered guest
hey bacon...start a new thread so they dont have to go thru all this

Silver Member
Username: Its_bacon12

Post Number: 111
Registered: 12-2003
yea lol i did

what all do i need for a sound system.

Silver Member
Username: Its_bacon12

Post Number: 143
Registered: 12-2003
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