Treble on polk coax's kinda splashy. opinions please.

 

Bronze Member
Username: Hairball

City of Angels

Post Number: 32
Registered: May-04
I've had about 15+ hours to break in my speakers and subs.

speakers are polk 2-way 6.5's in front and rear.

subs are 12" polk-momo's in the sealed enclosure (mm-12's).

i've got the polk 6.5 speakers wired in parallel (lefts together, rights together) so i've got no ability to fade front to rear (for now). they're hooked up to a polk 2 ch amp, set to HP filter, and crossed at about 90-100Hz but I'm still playing with it.

honestly, sometimes the system sounds amazing and then other times I feel more picky and notice the highs are kinda splashy. when i turn the treble control down on the hu, the splashiness is better, but i lose some of the highs that i want to hear.

jazz and pop sound great at all volumes. rock and metal start to sound splashy. blues traveler with the harp (harmonica) feels a little fatiguing on the ears, for instance.

1. have i let the speakers run long enough to know how they really will sound?

2. could i use an eq to dial in the sound?

3. is having no front to rear fader and tweeters in the rear the real problem (hello GlassWolf, I know, I'm learning). Is this why I have no real strong soundstage in the front?

4. should i think about upgrading to the Infinity Kappas 6.5 2-ways front and rear for an extra $75 (over the polks)?

5. I'm reluctant to do a component setup in the front, because i want to keep everything looking stock and under factory grills ( i've had components before and i know how much better they sound, i may change my mind soon). how good can i expect the sound to be in a car withOUT components up front?

6. finally, should i hook the rears up to the hu amp (old sony) for adequate "rear fill" and the fronts to the polk amp. this way i'll have fader from front to rear, except fronts and subs will be on the same "rear line out" rca's, and the rear speakers will be on the hu amp. power and sound wise, would this work out?

otherwise, i need another 2 ch amp, or just single 4 ch amp, and a new head unit with 3 sets of pre-outs.

any advice much appreciated, i just want to do the right thing, without spending alot.

thanks everyone.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Hairball

City of Angels

Post Number: 51
Registered: May-04
what, do i stink? no one will help me now?

seriously, if anyone has any advice on 1-6 above, i'd love to hear it. thanks.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 56
Registered: May-04
I wouldn't put two sets of speakers (not front and rear anyway) on the same channels of an amp. Ideally, you need to be able to fade the rears. I'd put the two channels of the amp on the fronts and run rears off the Head unit, like you said. Coaxials won't sound quite as a nice as a good set of components,and I wouldn't totally write off components, but if you want coaxials the best ones have external crossovers, which take out the midranges screechiness past 3.5k and have more accurate control. Swiveling tweeters are nice, too. Kappa 2 or 3 way coaxials would probably be better up front. I'd go 3 way up front (unless you want a swiveling tweeter), if you put coaxials in the back, it doesn't matter as much and will be attenuated ideally anyway. You can get the kappa 2 ways (don't get three way, too bright for rear fill) for the back if you wanted to, though, although a midbass back there would be the best. Subs running off the same RCA as the fronts would be fine as long as you set the gains to compensate. A head unit w/ 3 RCA outputs is nice, and better, but not required. It's especially nice if you tune the system a lot. I wouldn't like having to go to the amp every time I wanted to turn my subs up or down. Hope this helps
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 57
Registered: May-04
Also, about the EQ, since it is fatiguing at some times, and others it's great, an eq is about the same as you turning the treble down. You'll just be turning it down off an EQ instead of a head unit. Also, 15-20 hours you should begin hearing how they're gonna sound. There may be a little break in left, but not much difference.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Hairball

City of Angels

Post Number: 61
Registered: May-04
Jonathan, thanks a bunch. It really helps to get some feedback.

I think I'm gonna run the fronts off the 2ch amp and the rears off the hu. The sub amp has a remote gain control so I can adjust the gain in the drivers seat, i love this.

yeah, now that I pay attention to it, I can really tell that I've got way too much power coming from the rear speakers.

question: i was thinking about getting the kappa 2-ways, because the tweeter swivels and this would help the front soundstage. but you recommend the 3 ways.

Can you elaborate on the difference I might hear between the 2-ways and the 3-ways?

thanks for the advice on the eq and the break in.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 75
Registered: May-04
The 3 ways have a brighter high end, but the 2 ways are also very crisp. Either is a great choice, some people can find the 3 ways a bit fatiguing and bright, especially if treble is turned up. It's all if you like a lot of treble or not. I don't really recommend 3 ways over 2 ways, I just recommend 3 ways up front IF you get the 2 ways in the back. Sorry, forgot to elaborate. The swiveling tweeter can help a lot, depending on where they are to start with. You won't be disappointed with either. If the Polk 2 ways were fatiguing to you at times with one tweeter, you probably won't be fond of the supertweeter that comes with the 3 way. Get the 2 ways.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Hairball

City of Angels

Post Number: 62
Registered: May-04
Thanks Jonathan, you've been very helpful. I think I'll stick with the 2-ways, they're a bit cheaper I think as well. I think I'm gonna see how the Polks sound in the new set up before switching to the Kappas.

The next step, per GlassWolf's article on rear fill, is to band-limit the rear speakers.

He says the following:

"If you have a separate subwoofer, band-limit the signal going to the rear speakers to approximately between 200Hz and 3kHz. You don't need complex crossovers for this, just something like a 6dB per octave first-order high-pass filter at 300Hz and a 6dB per octave first-order low-pass filter at 2kHz. We're talking about one coil and one non-polarized electroly tic capacitor ($20 if you get the real snazzy stuff like polypropylene capacitors and low guage air core inductors)."

Can someone recommend a good place to get these 2 filters? From memory, I just need to wire these in series with each rear speaker, correct?

Do I need a specialty shop for these filters, or does a place like Rat Shack have them? I'd probably want to spring for the more expensive filters.

Any specific info is much appreciated.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Hairball

City of Angels

Post Number: 63
Registered: May-04
one more thing, the Kappa 2-ways have external crossovers with these specs:

2-Way Crossovers: These speakers include computer-optimized, voice-matched crossovers. Each crossover features an 18dB/octave, 3.5kHz high-pass network for the tweeter and an 18dB/octave, 3.5kHz low-pass network for the woofer.

Crossover Connections: Each crossover has an 11" input lead terminated with bare wire and two 18" output leads, one for the woofer and one for the tweeter, terminated with female quick-slides

So, for the rears, can I just not hook up the lead to the tweeter? What's the proper way to terminate this lead, because it's live, right? From memory, I think I can just put a high ohm resistor on it, is that right? Does anyone remember what value?

Please set me straight, especially if there's an easier way to do this. thanks again.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 102
Registered: May-04
You can. You don't have to put a resistor on the tweeter output lead, just don't hook it up to the crossover. Cut the wires and tape the ends off, then wrap tape around the whole wire and cover it well, then try to tie wrap them somewhere and make sure the wire ends have no chance of touching the metal of the car and short circuiting. Truthfully, I don't run rear speakers in any of my vehicles. You can just buy two pair of bass blockers to band limit them, look on www.crutchfield.com to find a 300hz at 4 ohm, then a low pass, 2 khz at 4 ohm. Yes, you just wire them in series to the speaker. Or, if your head unit has a high pass filter, you can set it to 200 hz (if it has that option) and just get a 2 khz low pass filter.
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