Hey all. (Jonathan, GlassWolf) Alpine HU etc system questions

 

New member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 9
Registered: Sep-04
ok.. I am preparing to revamp my trucks audio once again, only this time i plan to do it very well.

current setup:

head unit: Alpine CDM-7857

speakers:
dash- 2 pioneer 4x6"
door- 2 panasonic 6.5" ($10 when the tweeter fell off one of my sony xploadofcrap 6.5)
pioneer6x9- currently behind and between seats
subwoofers - 2 audiobahn aw1208t in 4.6 cu ft per woofer vented box, tuned to 32Hz with two 4" ports per chamber (http://www.freewebs.com/mattellermets/mytruck.htm)

amps: boss powerdrive 3000 (at 1000w RMS 1 ohm stereo)
boss ava 260tr (bridged to run the 6x9 in mono)

annyway. i got the alpine from my brother, got the pioneers from walmart, the rest was about half off on ebay, and now some guy at my school says he thinks it sounds awesome. i think it sounds ok, specifically, very loud bass that makes the back wall of my truck flex at least an inch, makes my ears feel like they are bleeding, etc, but POOR quality sound. the reason for the 6x9 is to hear the music with the bass even half up.. i made it mono and centered more so the staging isnt as terrible as it was, but still i need improvement. anyway the reason i mentioned the impressed guy at school, he told me he would give me $1000 for the deck, powerdrive amp, and audiobahns, if i built him a box. Do you think i should? also, what should i buy next? for all I care, I can throw the ava260tr in the trash, and all the speakers should probably go too. I was thinking something like:

head unit: Alpine, Eclipse? $300?

amps: you tell me

speakers: infiniti kappa 5.1 or Perfects

subwoofers: keep the box, and get something with higher SQ! SPL is nice, but i dont need permanent hearing loss anymore than the next guy. i was thinking Adire Audio's Shiva, or somthing similar. (of course i wish i could afford the ReXXX or Brahma)


what do you think? I am in my first year of college (electrical engineering to be specific), I make $15/hr over the summer at an internship, but only $8 right now, doing construction... just to give you an idea of my budget...
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 4478
Registered: Dec-03
I'd just go with:
decent head unit with 4V pre-outs (3)
2-channel amp
mono amp
6.5" separates in doors/dash
subs behind seats in enclosure

that'd be a complete, good system, and not cost ya too much
far simpler than what you listed, and far better gear
 

New member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 10
Registered: Sep-04
thanks a lot.
so how does this sound. tell me if you have any recommendations on where i could either save money, or where i should opt for better/different equipment... prices are generalized

$250: two Shivas
$250: MTX801D
$50: infinity 4652cfp 4x6 plate
$100: infinity 6000CS components
$100: 2-channel amp (still not sure where to go here)

and I am also lost in the myriad of head units.

I would love gadgets like mp3 and remote, but then much more importantly i need awesome tunable sound. since you all seem to have experience with many different units, where would your $300 be
 

new2audio
Unregistered guest
would a visonik V1175SX amp be a good amp for running the infinity seperates? GlassWolf, do you know anything about Visonik? a buddy has one for $50, practially brand new, i guess the output of 100x2 rms at 4 ohms and 150x2 rms at 2 ohms wasnt enough to run his two 12" as well as he thought.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 4588
Registered: Dec-03
try this:

lower end alpine head unit (figure out which you like) $250-300
JBL bp600.1 amp ($150-200)
JBL p180.2 or similar for fronts
forget the 4x6 plates
put the component midranges in teh doors, and tweeters in the dash 4x6 spots.
then go with the shivas for $120 each, or kicker compVR 12" for about $99 each
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 11
Registered: Sep-04
thanks for the advice!

just ditch the dash plates altogether? so midranges up high like that must not do anything for the imaging then..? a good money saver there though, thanks.

also, would my s10 (newer gen. you can see in the link above) benifit a lot from MDF kick panels? i am fairly confident I could fab some decent ones, if it would be worth the time... otherwise would sound deadener on the doors produce clean, controlled midrange, with kick panel's only plus being the superior sound stage?

and another question... sorry if i'm overwhelming, i just dont know anyone who has your level of experience around here...

this is about the box for the bass drivers... would my current box work well, or would i benefit from a downward firing box... adire's website leans strongly toward the benefits of down-firing boxes, at least in HT (gravity-induced longer excursion, resonance benifits), plus i would be able to create usable space for bookbags, etc ontop of a downfiring box, considering ports firing from the front or bottom. thanks again for any input...
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 12
Registered: Sep-04
oh, also, i have an Xtant 301A lying in the garage, I had it in my brother's dodge ram, but he likes the sound from my old kenwood kac8101d better (boomier, more on-amp external adjustments)... anyway, i may hold off on a better mono amp for $ reasons if the xtant will do well with the shiva's. ok, now i'm not sure why i spent time posted this, hmmm.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 4645
Registered: Dec-03
well if ya want to go with kick pods, see if Qlogic or someone has fiberglass ones pre-formed for that S10.
Crutchfield should list everything they're made for.
that'd be your best bet going that route, tehn put both mid and tweeter in the pods and you don't need the factory spots at all.
yes the plates would disburse the sound a bit much and pretty surely ruin the imaging. I try to keep things as simple as possible for most systems. The more ya mess with stuff, the more chance for trouble.
As for Shivas, they like to have around 300-350 watts each, so if the Xtant can deliver that, it'll be fine.
less power and you'll be tempted to compensate by using the amplifier gain, or bass boost, both of which introduce distortion and clipping.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 13
Registered: Sep-04
hey, wow. i looked up the kickers... on ebay they are <$140 for two... so they are somewhat on par with the adires? i thought the shiva was king of affordable speakers... 12" of cone pulsing 33.2mm is a moving a lot of air...?

again, another question, is there a vast difference from the 6000cs, 60.5cs, and perfect 6.1 series components... obviously more power handling with the perfect 6.1 set, but is the clarity much different, ect... have you heard the different types? anyway thanks again...
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 14
Registered: Sep-04
the only prefab kicks for my truck that I can find are the 5.25" type.. I was hoping the the 6.5" to fit, so custom work may be in order... i guess now i'm curious if the 6.5's sound a lot better... :-) i should change my name to curious george, or matt "million questions" ellermets lol
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 4666
Registered: Dec-03
the Shiva is a much better sub, yes. I was just offering cheaper options.
the Perfect 6.1 (my Jeep's front stage) is by far the best of the lot from Infinity. Big difference in sound.. also in price though.
The Kappas are still very good, but the Perfects are noticeably better.
That's their top end stuff.
it comes down to what ya want to spend.
The Perfects definitely need amplification to shine though.. gotta get that midrange driver moving some air.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 15
Registered: Sep-04
cool, i will stick with getting a pair of shiva's, and save my pennies for the perfects... and amp... thx

btw. i have run dual 4ga for my power, to a distro, where it splits again into 4 ga to the amps. i have a 200A alternator, with an 80A fuse on each wire a foot from the battery, and dual 100A fuses after the distro, before the amps. this way there are 160A (obviously not quite, since the truck is drawing more than 40A) of theoretical current available at the distro, and 100A to each amp... if needed for a burst, if the other isnt using all of its share... which is overkill, since my amps arent going to pull anywhere near that amperage... correct? and the reason for the complications, i had single 4ga on my first system, figured i would upgrade my wiring with the HO alternator, and so i bought a roll of 4ga... much cheaper than 1/0. i have run extra 4ga from the batt(+) to alt(+); extra 2ga from the batt(-) to the motor frame directly where the alternator mounts; extra 4ga from batt(-) to chassis ground; and extra 4ga from motor frame to chassis ground... I dont think I forgot anything...? anyway just thought I'd check. also, i hear the 27x4 rms Alpine units, i'm lusting after the cda-9833, need thicker power... is 10ga ok or do I need 8... or is stock okay if i shut off the internal amplifier, since i will ideally run the perfects on a seperate amp.... let me know anytime you are sick of my quizzes... i have plenty of time to daydream these up during school... i usually get on here between classes in the lab, or late at night (right now), at home... peace
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 4706
Registered: Dec-03
if you use the alpine's internal Vdrive amp you need 10ga wire for power.
if you turn off the vdrice amp and use an external set of amplifiers, you don't need the heavy 10ga for the head unit.
 

Silver Member
Username: Fishy

Tamarac, FL USA

Post Number: 568
Registered: Sep-04
Get 6 1/2 " mids. I broke down and and accepted my installer's advice and went with 5 1/4" Q's in the doors of my Explorer(easier install for him) and am regretting it every time I crank my system.

Find a way to fit those 6 1/2's or be doomed to accept subpar midbass performance like I am.

:-(

-Fishy
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 4756
Registered: Dec-03
Fishy, get your paws on an RTA, and disconnect your subs
find out where the midrange rolls off in your car.
then raise your XO point for the subs to match that point so the mids roll off right to the subs.
maybe use a shallower Q for the sub roll off to help that transition.
this should help a bit without adding midbass drivers to the system.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jeremyc

Kunsan AfbSouth Korea

Post Number: 119
Registered: Jun-04
Matt go with the 6.5s in the door and play with the tweeter location. I ran boston pros in my S10 so I ended up with the tweeters in the kicks about 5 inches foward from the mid. Sounded really good and none of my friends could tell I wasn't running any speakers in the dash. Something else to keep in mind (if you have an extended cab) is firing the speakers down. This gives the bass note a longer area to form befor it reaches your ear. I scribed my box to the floor and cut a semi circle from the floor up about 3.5 inches. Then I took grill cloth wraped it from the front of the box, around the opening and stapled it to the peice of board the sub was mounted to (underneith the box). Once I got it like I wanted I coated it with fiberglass resin and let it dry. After that I put a coat of bondo and then sanded it smooth. Its alot of work but it give the sound wave a smooth area to travel thru. If you would like some pics let me know. I am forward deployed right now so I don't have my computer, but I should be home in a few weeks if you can wait.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 16
Registered: Sep-04
JeremyC- sounds like a great box... i would love pictures, i was actaully thinking about how to go about making a downfiring box for my truck, so seeing how you did yours would be awesome.

Fishy- thanks for the tip, I will definitely try to go with the 6.5" drivers then.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 17
Registered: Sep-04
Glasswolf- hey i just thought of something. Is there another H/U for less $$ that is as good as the alpine cda-9833, in basically every way... only with a weaker, or non-existent, internal amplifier?

also, are infinity amps any good for running components? i have seen the Kappa 202A for under $100 on ebay, the 7520A for $130... if they arent better than the P-180.2, i will stay with the JBL.

and one more thing: for now the adires will re-use my current box... 4.6 cu ft per speaker, tuned to 31.5hz... i should definitely be using a highpass filter if i get a JBL pd series (currently shopping for best price on a bp600.1 or bp1200.1), right? i just dont know exactly which filter i need... the FMOD 20hz or 30hz... i have no experience with these.. need advice, also any difference besides price and looks between the single gold-plated models and the small red box with dual wire models?
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 4858
Registered: Dec-03
no on the alpine.
clarion and pioneer have some good head units though as does eclipse, but noting exactly like the alpine.

Infinity amps seem to be ok. I haven't used any of them myself.

filter the JBL at 16 to 20Hz.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Slim

St.pete, Florida

Post Number: 60
Registered: May-04
look on www.cardomian.com i think the 1200.1 is for 200 its a renewed one and certified by jbl with a 1year warranty
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 18
Registered: Sep-04
thanks coola.

hey glass, what about the Alpine CDA-7977? is it a good model? there are 2 of them on ebay right now for around $100... i believe the 79XX series require external amplifiers, but is the 7977 mp3 compatible? the 2 units' descriptions contradict. if the price stays fairly low, that wont matter, but if they run up to near what a 9833/9835 goes for, then it would definitely be an issue. also, is the only difference between a 9833 and 9835 the 2 line display vs. 1 line? as far as i could see that was the single difference.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mattellermets

Danville, IL US

Post Number: 19
Registered: Sep-04
nevermind on the 7977 mp3 question. i re-read the description. :-) helps to do that. anyway i'm still curious about the 9833 vs. 9835, and another thought. are there no preamp only decks with mp3 support?
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