Receiver Power vs. Speaker Sensitivitry ... help

Anonymous	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 19:20 GMT I'm trying to determine how much power I might need in a new receiver. I know that room size and acoustics matter, but that an important issue is speaker sensitivity. I know what the sensitivity of my speakers is, but don't how to interpret the number. I have an Infinity Prelude set of five speakers. The fronts have powered subwoofers and are rated at 96db sensitivity. Not sure about the center or rears, but the drivers aresimilar to the ones in the fronts. My listening room is large, approx. 24' by 24' with high ceilings. Also, like a lot of houses these days it has three walls and is mostly open to the dining room on the fourth wall (presents some issues about how to place the side speakers if I go to 7.1). Anyone have any idea where 96db fits on the scale of speaker sensitivity and how many watts of power might be a reasonable target to have in a new receiver?
G.DawG New member Username: Gdawg Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 19:41 GMT Anon, You should have absolutely no problem driving those speakers at all. A 96db powered sub speaker would only need about 35 watts per channel to run properly. I have 102db speakers running off a 100wpc Pioneer Elite 43TX, and it gets loud really quick and the amp never runs out of headroom. These are very very high efficiency speakers. Hope I was of help, G.DawG
G.DawG New member Username: Gdawg Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 19:59 GMT This chart is very helpful! http://www.klipsch.com/product/homeaudiofaq.aspx scroll down to Amplifier Power/Efficeincy. This means If I get that 59TXi (with 160 wpc respectively) I could easily blow my ears out! I could reach 250db!
jim wilock Unregistered guest	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 21:12 GMT g dawg ... Thanks. This is a great chart. Maybe you could help with more thing, although this may be subjective. I don't know how "loud" a particular decibel level is. with my 96db sensitivity speakers it looks like I can reach 108 decibels with only 16 watts. But I would need 128 watts to reach 117 decibels. For music I tend to jazz and classical - nothing that I would play at ear-splitting rock concert levels. So what would be a reasonably comfortable decibel in a large family room for that kind of music? And, what about those blasts and explosions in movies that add to the real theater experience?
G.DawG New member Username: Gdawg Post Number: 45 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 01:08 GMT The human ear can only take 110db. At 111, you wouldnt be able to hear anymore. And, if you are anything like me, you already cant! Your 96db speakers are very efficient and shouldnt take much amp power to drive them. My second HT consists of a Kenwood VR-6070 with 89db speakers(Quest QT-66-Fronts) powered by about 90 watts of power all around. This is easily enough for the average person. Getting a 3db between speakers(i.e 89-92)is the same as doubling amplifier power. So your 96db speakers are 2 and 1/3 more effecient as my Quest Towers. So as you see in that chart, my speakers(@ 102db)are extremely efficient, and take no power whatsoever to drive. Well Im glad im helping someone!, G.DawG
UNICRON-WMD New member Username: Unicronwmd Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 01:59 GMT Here are the basics. 90db factory 105db movie theater( at peak!) 115db rock concert 130db pain threshold 140db jet plane (up close to the jet engine) 150db the space shuttle's rockets 160db your heart stops 164+db some old lady's truck in a car audio magazine You can get hearing damage after: 8 hours of 95db 4 of 100db 2 of 105db 1 of 110db 30 mins of 115db 15 mins of 120db Do I really need to go on? Not only are your speaker's high sesitivity great, your speakers have powered subs. You will have no problem driving them with anything. Your speakers make me want to go home and throw away my Infinity Overture-1s and IL120S sub. Your speakers put mine to shame
Anonymous	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 02:28 GMT hey unicron-wmd - i see you have infinity speakers. probably same general characteristics as mine. what brands of receivers have you found a pleasing match in terms of sound for your speakers?
UNICRON-WMD New member Username: Unicronwmd Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 02:39 GMT "This means If I get that 59TXi (with 160 wpc respectively) I could easily blow my ears out! I could reach 250db!" G.Dawg, I hope you were kidding. If your speaker's sesitivity is 102db, it would reach about 124db with a 160 watt amp acording to that chart.
UNICRON-WMD New member Username: Unicronwmd Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 02:44 GMT I say one of the higher end THX Yamaha receivers or one of the lower end H/K receivers.
G.DawG New member Username: Gdawg Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 03:03 GMT UNICRON, It only takes 64 watts to reach 120db, so double that to 128 watts, and you got 240db, and theres still 40 watts headroom there!
G.DawG New member Username: Gdawg Post Number: 50 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 03:08 GMT Of course there is always other things to take in account, like room size, the amps current per channel not just wattage, room acoustics, and other things that I probably forgot. I wonder if that ratings were taken in a typical listening room or an SPL room?
UNICRON-WMD New member Username: Unicronwmd Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 03:12 GMT HAHAHA!!! If you double the power from 64 watts to 128 watts. you only add 3db. That would make it 123db. Come on man, you should know that!!!
G.DawG New member Username: Gdawg Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 03:16 GMT Maybe im an idiot, Going back to the chart...I think I got mixed up and didnt read the chart right, so that does mean I could only reach about 130db maximum. Well thats still loud enough for me.
G.DawG New member Username: Gdawg Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 03:33 GMT It would take 8'192 watts per channel to reach 141db even with a sensitivity of 102db @ 1w 1m!
Anonymous	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 04:46 GMT g dawg ... 130 decibels? According to unicron-wmd's chart that is the pain threshold! unicron-wmd ... I've heard the Yamaha 2400 and liked it. But thanks to this new info maybe I only need the 1400. I've seen the specs on the new HK avr 630 and looks like a good possibility. What about the Pioneer Elite line? Have you ever heard something like a 53tx with Infinity speakers?
John A. New member Username: John_a Post Number: 80 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 07:37 GMT Speaker efficiency in dB per Watt for a test signal is a number to take with a very large pinch of salt. In speaker design there is often a trade-off between colouration and efficiency. A lower figure in dB for efficiency aka sensitivity can sometimes mean a flatter frequency response and better sound. As regards receiver power, too, you have to ask how they got the figure. An NAD or Marantz at rated 50W per channel probably has more real power driving real speakers than a Sony or Yamaha rated at 110W per channel. Especially for home theatre. They must state "across the full frequency range" and "all channels driven" before the power figures mean anything in the real world. The specs on some amps/receivers are like saying a car has a top speed of at least 200 mph without stating that this is only vertically, when it has just driven off a cliff. See e.g. NAD power.

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