Newbie here

 

New member
Username: Rodman9866

Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-04
Nice board you guys got here. I purchased a new home theater setup about 6 months ago. i love it! i'm just wondering if anyone would have any opinions on what any further upgrades i coul dadd to it. the ones on my list for now are:

1. upgarde to a progressive scan dvd player - still deciding model (panasonic xp30/50)

2. upgrade receiver to spearates (prolly looking at b&k ref 50/avr200.7 combo)

otherwise im pretty happy....i love my b&k speakers they rock and worth every penny. the way i designed my system thru my budget was picking out the speakers i wanted first then finding something to push them then, seeing what i heard.

what ended up happening was i spent like 60% of my budget on the 75% on audio then cheaping out on the video lol. the speakers alone were 60% of my budget. so how you guys doing?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 90
Registered: Feb-04
Paul,

If you enjoy listening to music, I would suggest getting a dvd player that also plays dvd-a, sacd or both. I believe the Panny xp50 plays dvd-a, but the xp30 doesn't. Those players have a reputation for video performance, but you can probably do better on audio performance, perhaps in a Denon player.

Otherwise I think you have a solid system.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 554
Registered: Dec-03
Not sure where you're starting your upgrade from, Paul.

I am currently shouting "Get DVD-Audio" as loudly as possible. Best thing for decades, in my view. Especially if your priority is sound.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 12
Registered: Apr-04
Inspite of all the critism it gets, DVD-A has it's merits.Perhaps you may consider buying the Pioneer universal model 667a for starters. I suggest you retain your receiver since you mentioned you were happy with the sound you're getting better merely upgrade to better cables depending on your budget consideration believe me it makes a BIG diff on quality.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 592
Registered: Dec-03
lorenzo,

DVD-A. What criticism?

Seriously!

Thanks!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 89
Registered: Dec-03
paul first off i love b&w speakers and in my
opinion the ref50 combod with the 200.7 is great.

so you need a good video/audio source, dvd player

obviously you need to use the 5.1 inputs of your
reciever to play dvd-audio or even sacd for that
matter.

you can use the digital or analog from the dvd
player for 2channel cd playing.

so with that being said if you use the analog
outs on the dvd player to the analog ins on the
reciever then you need quality dac's in the
dvd player and thus you need a quality unit.

some of the units that have both quality video
and audio that i have looked at would be.

marantz 6400,denon 2900 and 2200,pioneer elite
47a and 45a.(among others)

i personally chose the denon 2200 for both price
and quality. (both video and audio excelent)

i thought that the 2200 had the most bang for
the buck. at $500 i am very pleased with
everything including 2 channel audio.

i hope this helps!
 

New member
Username: Rodman9866

Post Number: 2
Registered: Apr-04
Lorenzo, i have a bud who is the store mamger for circuit city so i had him ACCOMADATE me lol and go thru the accomodation program they have there and i bought all the high grade quality cables i could get for damn near cheaper than i would ever pay. i got for speaker wires all the THX wires and the component cables as well all heavily shileded and braided. yeah i wont be doing any upgrades prolly until the end of the year anyway ciz iid like to put a dent in what i owe tweeter and best buy. before i get into more audiophile debt.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 106
Registered: Feb-04
Upgrading cables is a big waste of money IMO. Might as well throw your money out the window.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gman

Mt. Pleasant, SC

Post Number: 401
Registered: Dec-03
Kegger--You made a wise choice on the Denon 2200. I don't own that model (I have the Pioneer Elite 59AVi and the Denon 2900), but I think the Denon 2200 is the current class act at its price point--or the PE 47AVi if you can get it at that price.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 13
Registered: Apr-04
John A
Hehe of all people I didn't expect you not to know what these "stereophiles" say about DVD-A sound compared to SACD. But as an audiophile I feel and this is a personal choice DVD-A sound is better than SACD anyday. More so if surround sound is to be the basis of which is best between the two.However for sheer musical pleasure tube components with great analog sources is my cup of tea.Yes it may be a surprise to you but I can live in both worlds happily.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 14
Registered: Apr-04
Two Cents
Upgrading on quality cables is really a waste of money for cheapskates such as you, who wouldn't wanna spend more to get more out of their system. That being said I respect your opinion.Maybe someday when the light shines upon you,don't be too hard on yourself ok
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 15
Registered: Apr-04
Paul,
You are closer to the truth than you think! Keep listening and posting messages pal.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 613
Registered: Dec-03
lorenzo,

...and I still don't know what the criticism of DVD-A is, from "stereophiles" or anyone else. Please let us know.

I am with Two Cents on cables, generally, except in special cases. One thing is clear, you can't trust many dealers an inch on cables, they will try anything.

My DVD-audio purchase was a good example. The dealer tried to close with an absurd suggestion on an insanely-priced cable that would not even have done the job.

If any one's interested, my review of the player is here NAD T533 DVD/CD player user's review, and DVD-Audio.

Paul,

I would listen to Kegger's recommendation, too. I did not look hard at the Denon 2200 because where I am its equivalent Denon model is more than twice the price of the one I bought.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 19
Registered: Apr-04
John A,
Just fyi many feel and think compared to SACD format DVD-A sound is inferior. Now I am telling you this for you posted to tell "us", whoever they are who share your obvious bias to DVD-A apparently seeing it as the ultimate medium, I really don't care. I already stated my position on my previous post however you insist to be enlightened. Thus since these critism I learned were my first hand experience I beleive it would be best that somewhere in this short tenure of life in this world you might stumble into some negative remarks regarding DVD-A on your own.

Now my comments on cables is based on personal experience I had using them which I try to impart. You see I am not callous enough to buy expensive cables because Michael Fremer says they are the best he ever heard. So please don't kill the idea there is no positive advantage to consider cables simply because the retail agent are all out to make a fast buck. By the way what do you use in your valued system in terms of cables and speaker wire? Why did you consider them NOW PLEASE TELL US!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 96
Registered: Dec-03
first off both sacd and dvd-a are both excelent
new formats for better quality sound reproduction

so at the prices of players today i would not buy
a player that doesn't play both.

on the cable front as long as you have pretty
good cables monster or whatnot there is no reason
to upgrade with something that has a 400% markup
that you will not be able to hear the difference.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 22
Registered: Apr-04
KEGGER,
Your observation that both SACD and DVD-A format have excellent qualities are without a doubt undisputable. However a dedicated SACD/CD player the likes of the Trivista by Musical Fidelity definitely has it's advantages in sound quality. Problem is if it's affordable for mortals to take the plunge to? Remember placing both formats in the same machine simply spells COMPROMISE all over ever get to wonder why universal players are so err CHEAP?

Back to cables whatever makes your system sound good to you then stick to it.But you have to be honest to yourself and your quest for high fidelity, wouldn't you buy expensive cables direct from the manufacturer eliminating the middle man profits if you feel there was an audible difference in sound? Or are you at the impression all cables sound alike I.E. monster cables vis a vis let's say CARDAS? Do you think they were made of the same materials and one is simply overpriced? Or would you admit there is an audible difference? Which is which for so long many hi-fi buffs have not really been taking an open stand on this subject. If one such as you can be satisfied with "pretty good" cables won't you be in a healthier state if you can use and aspire for SUPERIOR cables? Remember not all cables made it to the moon pal.:-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 108
Registered: Feb-04
lorenzo,

I too am basing my statement on personal experience. A while ago when I was seriously into this hobby and believed in a lot stuff I read in the mags, I had the opportunity to borrow various cables from my local dealer. I really tried to convince myself that really expensive cables made a difference. My ears finally were not convinced. There was very little difference between the "basic" cables the dealer carried and the "high-end" cables to my ears.

I agree with Kegger, that there is a basic level where cables are good and to pay more is really lining someone's pocket for something that is not appreciably better. I now use Acoustic Reasearch interconnects which I find to be very good in terms of materials and build quality at a very reasonable price. I use 14-gauge copper wire from Radio Shack to connect the speakers.

There are various websites that have information from engineers who provide scientific arguments as to why boutique cables really have no advantage over your average cables. If I have time, I'll post some links. It's telling that a lot of these boutique cable companies do not provide data to back up their claims.

IMO buying expensive cables is a status issue. It's kind of like buying a Rolex. A $20 quartz Timex will keep better time than a $10G Rolex. But it's not about keeping time. It's about feeling good about yourself based on what's on your wrist and the impression you make on others. Similarly, boutique cables aren't about the sound; they're are about feeling good about your system and what others think about it.

I know there's a different school of thought on this subject, which is fine. It's your money and this is a free country so I don't really care about what others do as long as they leave me alone. You asked, so I've stated what I think. If you care to enlighten us, my ears are open.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 27
Registered: Apr-04
Two Cents,
:-) Am not telling you to throw away you're timex coz it's a cheapo watch. Why I have no right to. Look if you can be happy with "good" low priced cables the kind you get supplied on radioshack products man let me tell you you have arrived! Whatever makes you happy go for it!

Just remember high fidelity is a state wherein TRUTH is the most essential VERITAS. If you can be true to yourself and actually hear an audible difference for the better using superior expensive cables would you truthfully deny yourself? More so if you can afford it? Or set it as a goal to achieve when you can? That's the whole story bro. It won't mean a thing if you can't haer the difference,but you see some of us do :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 110
Registered: Feb-04
lorenzo,

OK I give. You have better ears than I. You have arrived and I haven't.

BTW veritas in latin means truth. So I'm not sure what you mean by "TRUTH is the most essential VERITAS." I would say it's just more gibberish, but it sounds like you really believe it, man.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 28
Registered: Apr-04
Two Cents,
Nothing can be farther from the truth when you say I arrived and you haven't. The truth is we both arrived we just weren't on the same plane :-). Yes VERITAS means truth, as in the eternal quest for truth in this hobby we love, we all must be open to the possibilities of what really lies behind it.

Keep slugging man!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 97
Registered: Dec-03
i am certainly not going to get into a cable war.

i believe what i have previously stated.

and yes you can buy a very expensive sacd player
and get better sound than most universal players.

but the quality of say a $500 to $850 dollar
universal player is pretty dam good.

so in my opinion until the format wars are over
and everyone manufactures top notch players , i
would bye a very good universal player for now.

it seems like that is the way to go for now
exspecialy with the selection of media out there
right now. by being able to play both gives you a
much wider range to choose from.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 29
Registered: Apr-04
KEGGER

Yeah dam good can also be pretty dam good to others, really is a matter of tastes eh?.If one can get off dining out at Mc'Donald's who needs French restaurants eh?

Bon Apetite!
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 111
Registered: Feb-04
lorenzo,

I have nothing more to say on the subject, except I wish you many hours of happy listening. Peace and happiness, bro.

Kegger,

I couldn't agree with you more. I just got a Denon 2200 yesterday. I haven't really tried it out so will save my comments for later. If you have any tips on using the player, I'm all ears.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 616
Registered: Dec-03
There is a cables forum here, too. I am happy to let anyone have my list of cables, lorenzo, but it's more or less random, and would be hard to compile. I have a few Monster interconnects with arrows on and it makes no difference I can hear if I swap them for the ones that came out of the box with the player, or the ones I soldered myself onto gold plugs. After a while the surface of mild steel gets tarnished and covered with oxides or something that don't conduct so well. That doesn't happen with gold. That's about it, as far as I can judge myself.

One thing I don't have is a bias towards DVD-A, except non-musical preferences I think I am aware of myself (read my review). I compare the sound of DVD-A with DTS, Dolby, and Cd, and try to share what I learn, because I think there are a lot of poeple who would be interested. I have never heard SACD, and have nothing to say first-hand on how it sounds. I made my decision to go DVD-A on the basis of not having so much money to experiment, wanting the best sound available, and reading things. I don't regret it. But I am still waiting for a link to some review or something that says SACD is better -or worse - than DVD-A. I've been asking this here for some time, and people mostly reply with how many more discs are available, usually from their favourite band.

Any links? Magazine articles? Posts here or somewhere else?

BTW Two Cents is right about veritas. Your quote reminds me of half the vacuous pseudo-mystical dialogue in The Matrix. "Because it is my purpose" etc. Jeez what a pretentious movie.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 32
Registered: Apr-04
John A,

You haven't heard SACD. Now I understand thanks now I can include you in my prayers.BTW the movie reminds me of you also thanks!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 33
Registered: Apr-04
John A;

Hard for me to swallow reading your review if haven't even heard SACD format yet. I'll take a raincheck pal thanks but no thanks.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 98
Registered: Dec-03
lorenzo you are a very unhappy man aren't you.

and i'm sure you can swallow!
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 618
Registered: Dec-03
There is some misunderstanding here, lorenzo. The review is my opinion. You can take it or leave it, like anyone.

And no offence intended about the Matrix: "Truth is the veritas" sounds profound, but isn't. That's all.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 619
Registered: Dec-03
Two Cents,

You've bought a Denon 2200! Informed by some of the dicussions here, I hope. That's great. Congratulations. You, too can compare DVD-A and SACD! From what I read here, the Denon does both well. Someone said the Pioneer would not have made a fair comparison.

Let us know how you get on! I know there is a lot of interest.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 112
Registered: Feb-04
John A.,

Thanks! I'm excited about comparing SACD and DVD-A. I haven't done any critical listening yet, only watched a DVD, but plan on picking up some SACDs this weekend.

The posts here as well as on other boards were helpful in my decision to get the Denon. But the clincher was auditioning it at a local dealer. I thought the Denon offered the most all-around bang for the buck compared to comparable players from Pioneer Elite and Yamaha (not that either of these players were bad).

I'll let you know how it goes. Have you received your AIX discs yet? Even with DVD-A, the source material is crucial to its audio quality. As you know, I've raved about the sonic quality of the Mahler disc on Telarc (or is it Teldec), which makes you feel you're front-row center in the hall. I picked up a DVD-A of Dvorak's 9th on the same label recently (Harnoncourt/Royal Concergebouw). Unfortunately, listening to this disc, I felt like I was in the back row of the balcony in a hall with poor acoustics. I exaggerate, but the Dvorak is a disappointment compared to the Mahler.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 143
Registered: Feb-04
John A

Regarding Matrix - I had the same argument with my son the other day. "vacuous pseudo-mystical dialogue " The exact words I was looking for. Well said!

BTW - I thought Lorenzo's Oil was supposed to have a calming effect!

I'm usually not one to be nasty and I always try to respect the opinion of others. But, as he stated on another thread, this guy says he runs an audio store. All I can say is Buyer Beware!
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New york Usa

Post Number: 125
Registered: Dec-03
Lorenzo,

You finally said something I agree with. "Not all wire made it to the moon".

You are correct, only the stuff the taxpayers paid too much for! Same thing isn't it?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 37
Registered: Apr-04
Two Cents

When you make the comparison on the SACD/DVD-A using a universal DVD player bear in mind the sound would tend to favor the DVD-A format. The SACD is just an accomodation for the sale of the unit.

If truth is what you're after listening to two saparate dedicated format units would be the best thing for you to do in order to arrive at a fair and just evaluation.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 38
Registered: Apr-04
Rick,

All depends on your coat hanger mentality pal! LOL!!!!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 39
Registered: Apr-04
KEGGER

Geeze did you arrive on the conclusion regarding my emotional state on your own? Well I hope nothing happened like your wife leaving you for another guy caused you to say that. Perhaps your boyfriend turned whatever hope you're ok.

Now I know I got across to you pal, don't you worry I will be around here for a long time to dispute your puny audio beliefs yessireeee!

On reading JohnA review on DVD-A honestly would there be credibility since he has not even heard of DVD-A`s main format competitor SACD sound. Only the types of Linda Carter could prolly swallow that.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 101
Registered: Dec-03
no it is actually right there out in the open
just like your waiting mouth.

and you probably don't realize it but when you
rant and knock other people down you don't leave
much credability and just waste your breath as
that not anyone is going put much belief in what
you have say.

see yu pal!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 41
Registered: Apr-04
My Rantz,

Thanks again for your unsolicited comments against my person. I take it as a compliment from an established member of this forum plese keep up the nasty works! :-) And next time direct your comments to me rather than hide yourself with the skirt of other people here.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 42
Registered: Apr-04
KEGGER,

I see your into supression of speech now. Truth always lack credibility. However you may feel is no importance you merely have to ignore my opinions if it doesn't suit yours.

Learn from how I react to Rantz over there in the corner. He has every right to say his piece for what it's worth. Education on audio is hard pal more so to amateurs so sorry if I hit a nerve.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 102
Registered: Dec-03
me? i'm fine see yu! THANKS PAL!
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 146
Registered: Feb-04
Kegger

There is no point in communicating with this guy. He's just a waste of space. For the integrity of this forum he's better ignored.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 49
Registered: Apr-04
MyRantz a.k.a Audio Pharisee,

Look pal I don't care if I don't ever hear from you again in here you are a disgrace for misleading people in these forums. Nice to see your zionist vision are working 20/20 in reading my deliberate mispelling of what you are. You pompous _SS self declared audio critic.

I can only hope your listening faculties are working as well when you listen to your mediocre cable wire and rca connectors!

Have Fun!
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 622
Registered: Dec-03
lorenzo,

Just before people stop reading anything you write, please follow up, as I requested, on April 12:

"Inspite of all the critism it gets, DVD-A...."

and

" I didn't expect you not to know what these "stereophiles" say about DVD-A sound compared to SACD..."

What criticism, please? What do "stereophiles" say?

If you can't substantiate that, there's not much point in getting angry with people who are inclined to discount your opinions: you give them good cause. You certainly seem to have some sort of axe to grind.

Do you treat your customers that way...?

My Rantz,

Sorry, couldn't not communicate. Mine's much the same point as Kegger's, I think. But if anyone's got anything to say on the sound of DVD-A vs SACD, I'm most interested. I am with lorenzo in thinking there could be a compromises in a universal player. But I have no vested interest in getting people to buy separate ones...

Glad you thought the same about Matrix. If gets worse as the series goes on. The kids made me watch Matrix Revolutions with them last week. Even they thought it was tosh. I was hoping to see a close to the "plot" (?), but I am very much afraid there wasn't one, so there could be more. Though it was hard to tell. If you haven't seen it, I hope that isn't a "spoiler"...

Two Cents,

Thanks. "Have you received your AIX discs yet?" No. Will let you know!
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 150
Registered: Feb-04
Whoever emailed me please do so again. I accidently deleted it with a batch. Sorry for the inconvenience.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 151
Registered: Feb-04
John A

No problem, but take care - uzis and going postal come to mind.

I have just seen the final Matrix and feel much the same as you. My son seemed to get it but his explanation was to deep for me!

Promoted to board reviewer I note. Well it as a good one no matter what DH said.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 113
Registered: Feb-04
IMHO this is the best audio/video forum on the web because members conduct themselves in a civilized, friendly manner and provide intelligent, detailed posts. However, this thread is out of character.

I don't mind differences in opinion (in fact I welcome them), but the personal attacks and pissing contests help no one. If someone hears improved sound because of an expensive cable and is willing to pay for it, then they have every right to express their view. But that doesn't mean everyone has to see it that way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. So express them, try to provide some details to support the opinion and leave out the personal insults please.

That's my $0.02 of editorializing. On to other subjects:

There's no question that a Denon universal player is a compromise. It's going to get beat by the Meridians and Krells of this world. But for a lot of folks, including me, we need to play the game of diminishing return, aka, getting the biggest-bang-for-the-buck. In that sense, the Denon delivers. I'm not so sure that 2200 will favor DVD-A playback over SACD as lorenzo stated. Unlike cheaper universal players, it has a separate DSD decoder for SACD. So the D/A conversion path will be comparable for DVD-A and SACD, using the same analog output.

As far as the Matrix, I just watched Matrix Revolutions and its a mess of a movie, but it will test your home theater system. I enjoyed the first Matrix movie, but have been sorely disappointed by Reloaded and Revolutions. The best thing I can say about the movies are they have outstanding picture and sound quality.

 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 625
Registered: Dec-03
Mr Rantz,

Thanks. "uzis and going postal"...?

2c,

Your Denon cost twice as much as my NAD so if the DVD-A part is as good, which I do hope it is, neither of us can complain! Let's hear about it!

Both,

You've seen it, so you will understand, but I do not wish to spoil it for anyone else. You will recall a central character is mortally wounded, and takes a while to die. Say about three hours. Since the same character has died before, it's hard to engage, since there seems to be no particular reason why he/she can't be brought back to life again. One of our offspring has a friend who saw Matrix 3 at the cinema soon after release, and, unable to stand it any longer, actually got up and shouted "for ...'s sake get on with, and just die". Apparently he got a round of applause from the rest of the audience.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 115
Registered: Feb-04
John A

That's hilarious! My better half actually tried to make heads or tails of the movie. She found a 38 page article on a website about the Christian and Hindi references in the Matrix Revolutions. I guess the hero and heroine are alter egos and are supposed to be christ figures ???? I can see graduate students in deconstructionist literature having a field day with the movie. As for me, I'd rather be watching a Chaplin flick.

My initial impression of the Denon so far is favorable. The picture quality is definitely a step up from my Toshiba progressive scan player. The picture is sharper and has more depth. It gets about halfway to being HD quality, if that means anything. Some quick audio impressions: I tossed in the Mahler DVD-A. There is a quiet choral passage which sounded like murmuring on the Toshiba. Now I can hear the articulation of words. CD sound quality is mediocre. I haven't listened to any SACDs yet. Will provide more comments later in the new DVD-Audio/SACD Thread.

BTW congratulations on making the front page of the website with your T533 review. It's worthy of the prominent location.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 628
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, 2c.

I am sure you can do likewise.

"Comparing DVD-A with SACD on a Denon 2200" would be a best seller, I am sure. There will be strong opinions. You and Kegger, who is also very informed, have the same machine. That would be a good start.

Yes, articulation of words is a big thing I notice about DVD-A. It can make all the difference.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 56
Registered: Apr-04
John A,

To have stirred you has already made my day! Thank you, I already said on my prior postings in case you haven't read it or by any chance you have been reading between the lines automatically eliminating what your mind processes as hostile the following position.

1.) I stated that on any given day DVD-A is superior to SACD (I heard both both formats,unfortunately you haven`t as you admitted. Thus I have an advantage of comparison over you.) more so if the basis of which format is better is surround sound.

2.) I also already stated that many SACD enthusiast many of whom fall under the stereophile category meaning those who probobly detest the surround sound in anything they hear to find DVD-A sound inferior. Now what in this world else do you want from me????

After that being said. NO, I don't treat my customers that way only YOU. You have to listen and evaluate SACD sound first before you can become an authority to DVD-A because that's the main format competitor. Russians have children too pal.

However you moved me to new heights of discovery on DVD-A and I feel you deserve credit for that and my full attention on the subject whenever you share your insights in the forum. I hope this puts a closure on the issue because I will not pride myself to be accepted in this forum merely because I need "to belong" with everyone else's personal opinions :-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 61
Registered: Apr-04
"Buying Interconnect cables and speaker wires is like LIFE! Youn Stumble and fall, Rise again only to repeat the process." Unfortunately applying the same concept on other audio gear would indeed only mean more expenses because the cause of the STUMBLE is never addressed. Now think about it!
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 640
Registered: Dec-03
lorenzo,

Thank you for clarifying your position (1.21 a.m.)

" I already said on my prior postings in case you haven't read it .... that many SACD enthusiast....find DVD-A sound inferior. Now what in this world else do you want from me????"

Their names; references so that I may read their words for myself. As I said in my posts April 12 and twice on April 13.

It's OK. You evade the question. Therefore it is reasonable to doubt these people exist.

In order to eliminate what "my mind processes as hostile" I should, first, have to have access to something to process.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 63
Registered: Apr-04
John A,

Geeze you need affidavits LOL!!! I'll ask Hawk some legal advise on how to put it together for you. But then he might charge me a plenty so I think I'll let it slide. Too bad there aren't to many stereophiles in your part of the hood there's plenty of em here in Asia but I'm not buying you tickets pal! Have you heard SACD already? Or are your ears only tuned in on DVD-A so far? Me evade a statement I already made? Take me to your Leader please :-).
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 642
Registered: Dec-03
"Me evade a statement I already made?"

No, evade a question.

I have been assuming all along you can read. Sorry about that.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 65
Registered: Apr-04
John A,

Once I make a statement I never evade it once it is requoted as you have done. As for your question I don't really care for whatever anybody says about SACD vs. DVD-A differences you cannot relate because you still haven't heard SACD yet right? I wish i could loan you my Trivista but then you might run over it with your stroller.

And if your insinuating I can't read then it confirms you're even a worse idiot than I thought you were. ;)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 66
Registered: Apr-04
Oh John A

What's taking your reply too long are you still on dial up?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 67
Registered: Apr-04
Johnnieee

C'mon why I almost came when you said you were shouting what's that "GET DVD-A best ever in years " or something if I can recall.
 

Anonymous
 
if ya ask me alphasoniks are good but not to good because me and brother got pair of the 800's and
i blew them oput quick with my 1600 watt volfenhag amp
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 68
Registered: Apr-04
On DVD/DVD-A/SACD/CD/MP3

For those who own CD players keep em` if it makes you happy. For those who own SACD/CD players keep em`if it makes you happy.But for those who owns a DVD/DVD-A/SACD/CD/Mp3 combo players, I suggest you throw em away for too many evils will breed COMPROMISE.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New york Usa

Post Number: 132
Registered: Dec-03
Lorenzo,

Let me ask your opinion, and I AM being most sincere.

My DVD player, a second generation, Toshiba SD3108, decided to self destruct. I am trying to decide if I should replace it alone, a DVD player to just watch movies, Or should I look into one that now does DVD-A as well? I fully realize the compromise of the combo player. I don't use my DVD to play CD's, as I have a dedicated transport for that medium. Also, if I go a stand alone DVD, I don't need internal DD/DTS processing, as I would leave that to my Proceed AVP.

Any suggestions?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 69
Registered: Apr-04
Rick,

We live in an imperfect world. I look at it this way and what I may suggest is by no means a dogma as far as situations you are in right now is concerned.First off I never mix my audio set up with that of my video set up. I have managed to live in the best of both worlds.

For my audio listening pleasure I use the Trivista SACD/CD player. I close my eyes involved in the music I hear it's only me and the stereo sound in my listening room. All is quiet and hearing subtle even sometimes faint passages in the recording gives me extreme pleasures often ending in long hours of listening bliss.

On the other hand I have this video set up as well. It's all together a different thing. It now becomes not only a feast for my ears but for my sights as well! You know how it is to be engrossed in a terrific movie with all the slam and explosions happening all around you. You begin to feel the adrenalin pumping as you hear the music of Mozart float all around you in Amadeus.Now this to me represents a second heaven of entertainment. I wouldn't say for the better but more for the added appreciation of the ultimate enjoyment not only in sound but vision as well.

This is the reason I prefer to purchase stand alone equipment whenever I can. Unfortunately this is easier said than done when it comes to my video setup. The DVD I use is the Pioneer DV-S755Ai which is the equivalent of the DV-47Ai Elite on your end.It plays DVD-A/SACD/CD altogether. To be true to my earlier post this is a compromised combo unit thus I should throw it away but to me it longer is a compromise not really because I have the dedicated Trivista to turn to in my hour of need.What really ticks me off is the fact I paid for the unit's other features to play other formats which I cannot pride myself having the advantages of hearing the same blissful sound I can only experience using the dedicated unit SACD/CD player that I have for my audio setup.I paired this DVD player with a matching Pioneer AX10ig receiver to make full use of the i.link digital interface. the THX ultra2 plus the AIR studios tweak on the receiver making it to my grade as far as sound quality is concerned.

So I would advise you since technology has already caught up with your query.That if you must now buy a DVD player to watch movies buying one which plays DVD-A won't make you a lesser being than anyone else.However forget about playing your valued red book cd's or sacd`s using the combo unit for you will be dissapointed.Bear in mind DVD and DVD-A are like family the compromise on the combo system will definitely reveal itself on the SACD/CD options. But of course nothing would beat your own preferences when you hear it for yourself and very likely you may even have more blessed ears to prove me wrong.

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New york Usa

Post Number: 134
Registered: Dec-03
Lorenzo,

Thanks for your input. I was thinking along the same lines. However, I'm a little hesitant to adopt yet another format. Keep in mind I've been through the VHS/Beta, DVD/Divx, and so on and so on. All in all I've never been a big fan of the CD. Never thought is was the be all, end all, superior sound format. Heck, I still prefer 2 channel stereo for audio. Just give me a great analog recording (no compression, no reverb, no mixing board). The almost lost art of truly great quality recording. Probably why I enjoy the Mapleshade recordings so much.

Think I'll go with a mid-fi unit this time around, until the format war is settled (DVD-A vs SACD).

Any take on the Cambridge Audio 540D Azur?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 71
Registered: Apr-04
Rick,

I think I'll take a raincheck on the Azur for the time being. LOL not yet no siree not yet.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 117
Registered: Dec-03
as many have said yes you can buy a better dedicated cd/sacd or dvd-audio player.

but what a lot of people are realizing is that
some of the second generation universal
players work quite well in all formats but only
a few players to date do so.

and one of the lesser expensive ones that seems
to do this is the denon2200 it does a pretty good
job of keeping it's dac's and power suppllies
seperated and performs very well.

so this would be one of the ones that if someone
didn't want more than one player and not want to
spend a lot of cash on. can get away with a very
nice player on all formats including video.

you would be hard pressed to get a dvd player
with better video than this player while you get
very good performance from sacd and dvd-audio
to boot.

not to say you cant get better video or audio
performance but to do so would cost quite a bit
more.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New york Usa

Post Number: 135
Registered: Dec-03
Lorenzo,

Fair enough.....thanks!

LOL! You see? We can play nice together.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New york Usa

Post Number: 136
Registered: Dec-03
Kegger,

Thanks......I'll give the 2200 a listen.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 72
Registered: Apr-04
Hmm interesting enough a friend who lives ten miles from me called me up.He was very excited about his Denon 2200. I believe the time has come for me to audition them soon.The endorsement I read here from Kegger and others seem to point to another sound value for money product which comes far and in between nowadays.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 649
Registered: Dec-03
lorenzo also becomes abusive, for no apparent reason, on Best cables for amp and pre-pro. I have linked this thread there, too, for information.

Rick, Two Cents has just bought a Denon 2200 and promises to report back.

I really am most interested in reading any critical and detailed A/B comparison of DVD-A/SACD, with the same source material, and cannot find one. Can anyone direct me to such information?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 92
Registered: Apr-04
John A

Thanks for admitting your earthly preferences! :-)
Why wait to compare on the same compromise player is there any DVD-A stand alone model around? Well didn't think so it needs it's big brother DVD movies to get it's popcorn eh?
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 128
Registered: Feb-04
lorenzo

Don't you think all audio equipment, including the most expensive, are compromises to listening to live music?

The fact is that most people have to live with compromises. How many people can afford to have everthing they want? Would it responsible to spend tens of thousands of dollars on audio equipment when you have a family to support?

So some of us have chosen to pay 10% of the price of the very best equipment on a "compromise" unit for perhaps 90% of the performance of the very best. For people with limited budgets I would say that is pretty smart. I hope you understand that point of view. I certainly understand your purist point of view in trying to get the absoulte best audio equipment out there. But not everyone thinks that way for the reasons I stated.

Having said that, I would say that the Denon 2200 is an excellent universal player for the money. The video and audio quality is substantially better than the mass-market players. If you have auditioned it and think it is not as good as the very best players, then I think folks here would be interested to hear what you think is lacking in the player. That way, they can decide whether they want to spend an $2000, $7000,or $10,000 more to get that extra performance.

You can be helpful in that respect, instead of belittling the idea of "compromises." Hope you take this in the good spirit that it is intended.

 

Silver Member
Username: Lockaudio801

Post Number: 103
Registered: Apr-04
Two Cents,

Aye! Your post is taken as a constructive rebuke for the better which I appreciate. However it is not my intention to belittle a product simply because the coined word "compromise" was used.

I made an earlier post stating my interest to hear the Denon 2200. Believe me it is in the list of my priorities on things to do, mainly because I have been reading favourable feedback in this forum and local enthusiast here in Manila.

I have also stated I too use a compromised unit a Pioneer DV-S755Ai. The real beef in the issue is that when budget hobbyist make their own evaluation on the merits of two warring formats namely DVD-A and SACD the hapless DVD-V is laid suspect to make the sound favor DVD-A vis a vis the SACD on the same machine.

I for a fact know the sound of the SACD option on the compromised unit is indeed I wouldn't say inferior just less truthful compared to the real deal sound of a stand alone SACD player.

I also stated my preference to DVD-A sound than SACD more so if multi-channel sound is to be the criteria of which is the better format. My argument simply borders on the fact that DVD-V and DVD-A being capable of holding their own probobly would have been better off to have not included the SACD option in the compromised unit. If we really turn it around from another angle and the SACD option turned out to be better sounding in the universal unit don't you agree it wouldn't be called a DVD player anymore? Think about it. Again my thanks for your post :-)
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