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Anonymous | I am looking into purchasing a new receiver soon.I've picked out two that i like: Yamaha RXV1400 Onkyo TX-NR900 I've had a chance to listen to an Onkyo TX-SR501 as that was all the dealer had in stock and i was impressed with the sound. I was curious to the Net-Tune the Onkyo TX-NR900 has and also the fact it was 7.1 so i almost bought it there and then.I knew i would be happy with the sound quality of a receiver i hadn't heard.What stopped me buying it was the price and also the fact would i even use Net-Tune much. The Yamaha is 6.1 and also a fair bit cheaper.I havent yet been able to test it tho as i've just found one. I will be using StudioLab speakers as i live next door to where they are made,in fact it was at the shop i heard the Onkyo. I was wondering if any of you good people could give me any advice or any insight.Your help will be greatly appreciated. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 28 Registered: 12-2003 | Heck, go ask StudioLab as you live next door. I am sure they run their speakers with various receivers to check how they will perform--at least I hope they do. No one here could give you as good advice as talking to the horse's mouth. The only downside is often speaker manufacturers are loathe to publicly make a preference, out of fear it will be repeated and get back to other receiver manufacturers and retailers who may then "dis" their products if the retailer doesn't sell the particular receiver they say works well. But it doesn't hurt to try--and if they seem reluctant stress that you are just a private individual and this information will not leave your lips. Yoy just don't want to make a mistake and take forever trying out numerous receivers. This may work if they don't give you an answer straight off. |
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Anonymous | I have asked the owner of StudioLab for a bit of advice and he said go with the Onkyo,he said Yamaha aren't the company they once were and they now tend to use cheaper parts for their equipment.As we are both from the UK he spent a good hour with me discussing various receivers and speakers and i believe he was really genuine as to what would suit me best given the funds i had available. StudioLab is a licensed Onkyo supplier so i could only listen to a Onkyo TX-SR501 which was set up in a test room,i was really pleased with what i heard. I was given some really good advice on what speakers to use with an Onkyo 900 which was what i originally wanted but i now think i will settle for the 800 as Net-Tune probably isn't what i really require anyway. I have read other posts regarding Onkyo's and Yamaha's and the Onkyo's are mentioned more positively.I don't have anything against Yamaha in any way but i think i will take the advice given to me from the StudioLab owner and the professionals in the message boards.I will be spending a lot more money on my Receiver/Speakers than i ever thought i would so you can understand why i want to ensure i get the best system i can for my needs with the funds i have available to me. Thanks a lot for your input tho,and to everyone else on these message boards who have made my life easier. |
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New member Username: E1kad2Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2003 | Let your ears decide man. Don't be affected by those who post against Yamaha. I had previously owned other receivers and found Yamaha to be on top of the other AVR's in the same category. |
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New member Username: EdisonPost Number: 19 Registered: 12-2003 | Panasonic has a new digital receiver that will beat both for less $ - U.S. $300. Sa-xr45 http://www.thedotcomsuperstore.com/viewitem.php?IndexID=1989 Change the electric chord to get better performance. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 32 Registered: 12-2003 | Much smarter to get the Onkyo 800 rather than pay all that extra money for net tunes and that other stuff most people would never use. The Panasonic is adequate for a $300 receiver--not the greatest power envelope. Of course to compare it to a much more expensive receiver like the Onkyo 800 or the Yamaha 1400 is ridiculous. Most of the inexpensive digital amplifiers don't perform very well yet. Plus the Panny doesn't have many of the features besides as big a power envelope as the Onkyo 800 or the Yammy 1400. Anyway, I hope you get a good deal on the onkyo SR 800. I have seen it at oncall.com at $790 and at reliable audio at $795. Onkyo has recently released the newer model, the Onkyo 801 and I have seen it at $895. |
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New member Username: EdisonPost Number: 37 Registered: 12-2003 | http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=amp&n=33619&highlight=sa-xr45&r=&sessio n= |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 34 Registered: 12-2003 | James-- Tweako's fall for a lot of things---from green magic markers on cds, to magic bricks on amps and other equipment, the Tice clock, I could go on and on. The specs of the Panny are also mediocre--certainly no better than many in that price range and in power, quite a bit worse. This came from a test--and it was done at the easiest way to show off the incredible power of an amp--at 1 khz and with fairly high distortion. If these numbers are the best it can do at 1 khz--imagine what they are at 60hz. 1 channel at 1 khz @ 6 ohms is 1% THD is 100 watt 2 xhannel at 1 khz @ 8 ohms is 0.1%THD is 35 watts 2 channel at 1 khz @ 4 ohms is 0.1% THD is 25 watt 5 channel at 1 khz @ 8 ohms is 1% THD is 25 watts Not that most 8 ohm speakers need more than the above wattage for soft to medium playing. But this amp section has no headroom and I'm sure at loud moments in movies and music disaster will strike--at least sonically. Just read the reviews here in the home theatre review section of receivers--in Sound and Vision, CNET, and Home Cinema. Not one of them thought they were in the presence of greatness. CNET mentioned power problems, but give it a 7.7---average or slightly above average. Sound and Vision said it was mostly fine for its price range and the other two receivers they tested at the same price were comparable. Home Cinema noticed the stridency in sound when it was pushed. And said--obviously Panny's specs on power are overly optimistic. I'd say--by a long way. But I will say that I am sure the companies that make these digital amp modules notice this receiver market, they will work hard to see if they can get some solid power envelopes. Hopefully they succeed. In the past digital amps are used when power is needed in small spaces. Panny used it to make a small receiver. HK makes a more powerful and more expensive one too. Not a world beater yet either. But I am willing to wait. |
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Anonymous | I've pretty much convinced myself that i will am going to choose: Onkyo TX-SR800, StudioLab DS-5.1 (Fronts,Rears and Back Surrounds) StudioLab DS-5.0 (Centre) StudioLab DS-10.0 (Woofer) Other than Net-Tune on the 801 i'm not sure what advantages it has over the 800.I'm happy with the choice i've made anyway,it's a great receiver joined with great speakers and it won't cost the earth. Reading these m/b's has really helped. |
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New member Username: EdisonPost Number: 41 Registered: 12-2003 | Gregory, The panasonic xr45 can be souped up with a power chord upgrade to sound considerably better than the stock I heard - some people are saying it's a state of art, and comparing it to a krell, although that might be going a little over-board. It's funny how one person can really like the sound, and another not, beauty being subjective, which brings the point of buying what "y o u" like, even going against all the recommendations of the pros - hey it's your toy, right? (you got to like it!) I like the sound of digital amps and, like you, am looking forward to seeing how they develop - Japanese manufacturers are coming up with price / performance break throughs recently, if you've noticed. So, you really are not into cables? That is hard to imagine you using a proac speakers without quality cables. Perhaps you might want to experiment with them again. A Hifi magazine said without good cabels, even a good system sound like the feeding time at a zoo. Perhaps you might want to experiment with cables again. Thanks for all the good advices by the way. I am sure you have lifted the standard of music enjoyment of many posters here - hope you keep them coming for a long time. Cheers, |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 36 Registered: 12-2003 | James-- You're a nice guy, but I take it you aren't a scientist, physicist, read scientific papers on this subject, or audio/electrical engineer. I apologize for going over this again--as we all had this discussion a month or so ago. So most can skip this. The power cord has zero effect on any amplifier. If the power cord was inadequate and enough electrons couldn't get through--it would melt or burst into flame. Electrons couldn't care less what wire they are going through to enter a receiver, cd player, or whatever. It immediately hits a transformer anyway as it enters the component, because components use DC electricity (the way Edison wanted), but our transmission lines send electricity by AC (the way Westinghouse wanted). AC won because DC could only travel a couple of miles before losing a lot of its power. AC could go hundreds of miles. This is also why electric conditioners are silly. Now if you could put the conditioner inside the component after it was transformed into DC they might have an argument. But the transformer changes the electricity to DC and consitions it---some may argue it could use extra conditioning after that point, but I know Bryston says that is BS, as do all the acoustic and electrical engineers I ever talked to that didn't have a financial advntage in saying otherwise. As far as speaker wire--do you think the speaker companies use ultra expensive wire that runs over a hundred feet inside their speakers? Why use wire that is any different after it leaves the speaker? The electrons don't care as long as the wire is thick enough to carry the load and has roughly the same impedance as the wire in the speaker--which almost all wire does. Don't believe the hifi mags that rave about wires. They get paid a fortune in advertising by wire companies and retailers make more money on wire than they do on most components. It is their big cash cow--it is what keeps many in business. |
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RR Audio Development Unregistered guest | Hey Greg... Thought that what you said was awsome... I am a Audio tech and sound engineer for a company in my city and what you said really hits the nail on the head... Very cool. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 134 Registered: 12-2003 | Thank you RR Audio. I know that most of the audio magazines spead a lot of pseudo-science along with out and out fakery. Most people work too hard to wast it on the silly things that many of these mags say are important. SPEAKERS ARE IMPORTANT--next your room acoustics--next your hearing acuity. Unless you are truly buying inferior designs, every other component falls far back in the effect it has on your systems performance. |
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New member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 7 Registered: 01-2004 | Hey Greg...what about other cables aside from speakers. Do you have any insight on the valued benefits of high end cables? I was looking to upgrade to some Optical and Component Video cables on my system and was blown away by the wide range of prices. Speaking specifically for Monster cables which was what I was planning to get, I found them step up to 2x, 3x, and 4x the Price as their claimed "quality" levels increased. Just wondering if it's really worth it, how far up the chain do you need to go if so, or is it a lot of marketing hype with little video and sound quality gained. Right now I have S Video and RCA Audio so I'm sure I'd get some benefit even with the low end but don't want to spend any more than I have to. Thanks. |
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New member Username: HawkPost Number: 64 Registered: 12-2003 | G-Man: Great post regarding electrical cords and conditioners! I always appreciate your input. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 136 Registered: 12-2003 | Thank you Hawk--missed your presence lately. JDG--I feel much the same about cables. Let Monster Cable print the impedance specs (ohms/cm2) on each cable. They probably won't because it is mostly BS and for audible purposes---identical. That is why they start BS-ing about differing cable wire weaves and other nonsense. If there is science--give it to us. And if there was science backing what they are selling, you could bet it would come with every package. I'm sure you've noticed--it doesn't come that way. Anyway, miniscule resistance differences in cables going 3 feet are inaudible. Just buy well-coated cables so there is no RF interference. On optical cables that doesn't even matter. |
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New member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 8 Registered: 01-2004 | Thanks for the tip Greg. As far as the optical went, they ranged from $20 - $100 for the same 3'-6' length! Someone else said Acoustic Research cables were just as good as Monster for 1/2 the price. I did a little surfing and they were right. Thanks again. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 137 Registered: 12-2003 | Price and quality often have little to do with each other in the Audio Video world. And that is especially true in wires and cables. It is even true to a great degree with speakers. I've heard $8,000/pr speakers that bordered on atrocious. A fancy package doesn't make a great performer. The ability to play loud doesn't make a great performer. Heck, if you can lay your hands on a pair of Ascend CBM-170 small bookshelf speakers at $328/pr you will be hard pressed to find much better speakers at up to and even over $1,000. You will find far more that are much worse. A look at the graph of frequency response versus volume (db's) is truly astonishing. Between 80 Hz and 18 KHz it is almost ruler flat. Heck, you can get a great 5 speaker surround system (2 pr CBM-170's and their excellent CMT-340c center channel at $858+$24 delivery. And if you add a HSU VTF-2 from them you get a package price of $1308 + $59 delivery. And if you don't like them you have 30 days to send them back. My point is you don't have to go broke to get great sound. And you will put many $5,000 and more speaker systems to shame. You will notice, there aren't many speaker company websites that have the guts to put the frequency response graphed against db's on their site. And you know they certainly have that information. Not that there aren't other important aspects to speakers--but that one is darn important. Sadly, many manufacturers and retailers try to keep their consumers in the dark. **And I am not pushing Ascend speakers--just trying to make a point. |