Newbie just bought new speakers -- very happy
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nirradus Unregistered guest | I've been reading, listening, researching. My head was swimming with buzzwords like soundstage, imaginng, etc. First I tried the Monitor Audio bronze series floorstanders. Very flat sounding. I read so much about Axiom that I simply couldn't resist. Compared side by side with the Montiors there was no question about it, the Axioms won. However, the more I listened to the Axioms (M60's) the more I realized the sound wasn't all that great. Very boomy in the bass side, mid's and high's were okay, but just not great. For $800 I thought they were fine, but I wasn't looking for fine and I'll tell you this right now... Axiom does a great job of internet marketing and while this is only my opinion there is no way they are better than B&W, Paradigm, KEF, etc. like I heard so many people say. They also aren't in the same league as speakers costing twice, three times that. Don't believe everything you hear over the internet. People are crazy. The Axiom's are fine for the money, but as I write this my pair is on their way back to Canada. Then I listened very seriously to the Paradigm studio 20's and 40's v.3. I liked them a lot. Was ready to go ahead and make the purchase but then I went to a store that let me compare them side by side with a pair of Linn (monitors). The Linn's were way better and it made me realize that while the Paradigms were nice, they're also very muddled. That is to say, they kind of blur everything together. I was ready to get the Linn's but then I went to another store and was turned onto DynAudio 52's. It really was no contest. It's amazing how much punch those little speakers pack into their tiny box. Not only that but the mid's and highs were sweeter, crisper than any speaker I'd listened to in my price range (mostly monitors, I gave up trying to find a decent floorstander in my price range). Also, I should say that the Dynaudio's really did blow away the paradigm. I think that if I never heard them I would have been completely happy with the Paradigms, but now I couldn't, wouldn't possibly be able to do that. I'm currently breaking in the Dyn's (with an older receiver). I can't wait to get a new receiver to really get a sense of what these speakers can do. However, if you're considering any of the brands similar to what I've looked at you should really take a look at the Dynaudio. To sum up, you can do all the research in the world, listen to all the experts. Everybody has their preferences, the speakers they like and you simply can't take anybodies word for it. The best you can hope when trolling the boards for information is just to get a sense of the kind of speakers in your price range. Ultimately you have to go out and listen and choose based on what you like, what sounds best to your ear. However, I did get one great piece of advice from all of this. I started my search looking for a floorstander for under a thousand bucks. A couple people mentioned that for my budget I would be much better served with a pair of bookshelves, higher quality mids and highs because better drivers. Plus, more flexibility down the road when adding to the system and makes for a better system overall. I heeded that advice and never looked back. Now all I have to do is save up for a sub, center, surround (or new fronts) amp, pre-amp, new cd player. This is a terribly fun hobby, but wow, pricey. Thanks for reading. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 673 Registered: Aug-04 | Nirradus A good read and to put simply as you did - It's your own ears that count. Research, audition and discriminate and end up satisfied. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1500 Registered: Dec-03 | Absolutely! It is always the end user that will benefit by listening first. cheers |
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OnimushaLord Unregistered guest | Well, perhaps b4 the Dyne 52 purchase, u should've dropped by another shop and give the Quad 12L a listen. They are ~ similarly priced but the Quad 12ls are highly reviewed and knocked the audience 52 off its rostral in one of the What HiFi supertests. However, its younger brother the 11Ls are more famous as it debutted much earlier in production and won Product of the Year for WHF mag in 2002 and 2003. We shall see if other upcoming monitors ie. the JMLab Chorus 707s and Epos can compete this year  Here's the link to the Quad 12Ls verdict, can't believe the MA S6 got 2nd last as WHF regards MA speakers very highly too. well, they are all simply great competition. Models tested- Score - Verdict comment / sound analysis AVI Neutron III - 4/5 - Authority & resolution Dynaudio Audience 52 - 5/5 - "Classy speakers with an award winning heritage that will grace any mid-price set-up." "Hard hitting bass";"refinement";"love to party" Monitor Audio Bronze 6 - 3/5 - Disappointing Monitor Audio Silver 6 - 4/5 - Very good, but beware of the big bass Quad 12L - 5/5 - "Quads offer stunning value for money. Massively transparent but a joy with the right kit and recordings.""Rock hard bass";"detailed delivery";"Build and finish" Spendor S3 - 4/5 - Stimulating, natural sounding Tannoy DC2 - 4/5 - take care with partners, love to party Wharfdale Pacific Evo 30 - 5/5 - Fantastic vfm, if you have the space, dynamic. The order they give them: 1st Quad, 2nd Dynaudio, 3rd Wharfdale, 4th Spendor, 5th AVI, 6th Tannoy, 7th MA Silver, 8th MA Bronze. The Dyns also released a 52SE model, GBP300 more and looks exactly identical physically from the outside but sounds awesome musch better than the 52 and worth the GBP 300 extra after u hear them. Well, the 52SE on the other can compete extremly well with the Quad 12L and perhaps better them in terms of bass definition. Mids and Highs are comparable and both reveal upstream equipment very transparently so be careful of partnering gears. Cheers! |
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Bronze Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 91 Registered: Apr-04 | I agree that your ears decided for you BUT I have the M60's and have a hard time with the bass being boomy!!These speakers are not known for that at all. I am not sure what receiver you used but that probably has a lot to do with it. I was going to buy the complete JMLab Cobalt series before listening to these which were double the price but you did follow the golden rule.............your ears! It is just that I had to comment on something I and others have never experienced with our speakers!........enjoy! |
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Bronze Member Username: JamespMansfield , TX USA Post Number: 50 Registered: Apr-04 | nirradus, The Dynaudio's are awesome. Good choice! I just got 42's a couple of weeks ago and they are beginning to break in. I am driving them with a NAD T752 and they sound great. If you haven't listened to them with NAD you should definitely give it a try. Seperates can get pricey so starting with a good AV receiver that can handle a 4 ohm load may be a good alternative. |
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nirradus Unregistered guest | Danman et al Yeah, I'm using a terrible receiver right now. And old Onkyo w/dolby pro logic. I'm sure that did have something to do with it. Even the Dyn's don't sound as good at home as they did in the store. I talked to the owner of the store where I bought the dyns (Sound Factor in Southern Cal) and he did say the 52 SE's were clearly better (almost double the price) but that he would much rather have me spend money on a quality receiver. He wants me to look at various NAD and Rotel products he carries. Also, I'm eventually planning to move the 52's to the rear and buy a pair of floorstanders for the front, when budget dictates. Thanks for the feedback everybody. Nirradus |
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Bronze Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 26 Registered: Sep-04 | Where is Sound Factor? I'm interested in listening to some Dynaudio, but I won't go to Atlantic Stereo (ran into a bad attitude there & I don't think they'll have anything set up anyway by the looks of the place). |
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nirradus Unregistered guest | Chris, Sound Factor is, I believe, the oldest audio store in Los Angeles. They have three locations. The one I went to is in Encino, just off Ventura Blvd. Other locations are Santa Monica and, I think, Pasadena. Check out www.soundfactor.com I think you'll like their setup. A lot of speakers to listen to. Let me know what you think of the Dyn's after you have a listen. |
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Bronze Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 27 Registered: Sep-04 | Thanks. Hmm..just hit mapquest & their stores are in a circle about 50 miles from me.  I'll probably wait until closer to my purchase time before trekking up there--I'm down in OC. Oh, sorry, I guess the TV says we're supposed to call it "The" OC now.  I'll be pairing the speakers with a Marantz SR5400. So far I've listened to a bunch. The list is Klipsh, Infinity, Sapphire, Polk, Monitor, PSB, Paradigm, Tannoy, NHT, Boston Acoustics, Sonus Faber just because, & Bose for the heck of it. There may be a couple I've forgotten. All were bookshelf speakers in the $200-$800 range. So far I've preferred the Paradigms (Studio 20) and Polks (RTi6) with the Tannoy DC1 next. All the rest I really didn't care for at all. From what I recall they were primarily driven on Yamaha, Onkyo or H/K receivers. The Paradigm & Tannoy were off an Anthem and Arcam CD player (two sessions--yes this gives them an advantage). Since the Dynaudios will be an hour's drive away I wonder if they are THAT much better. Can you describe how they differ from the Paradigms? Like you, I really liked the Paradigms & those are the front-runners right now. From my listening on the above listed speakers the Paradigms have sounded the clearest & most balanced (actually the best I've ever listened to so far); I would say "transparent." The Tannoys were a bit on the harsh side in the mids & highs in comparison. I guess that follows the more "laid back" description the Paradigms have been given. The Polk RTi6 seemed similar to the Paradigms in my memory; unfortunately at a different store so no A/B opportunity yet. The Sonus Fabers (I believe Concerto bookshelves--I really didn't pay much attention to the model as I was still looking in the $250 range at that time) were quite harsh in the highs compared to Polks on an A/B comparison. All the rest were more on the flat, muffled, and boomy bass end to my ears. For several like the Sapphires, Monitor, Boston Acoustics my wife commented they sounded like a blanket was over them (IIRC, these were all on Yamahas in two different stores). Boy, trying to describe exactly what I heard from the speakers is tough! Sorry to ramble on so long... |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 728 Registered: Feb-04 | Read these: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444504&highlight=Parad igm+Dynaudio http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=439648&highlight=Parad igm+Dynaudio http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438691&highlight=Parad igm+Dynaudio |
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nirradus Unregistered guest | Chris, Hmm. Tough. Like I said in my original post, I was ready to the get the paradigms. But then, when I compared them side by side with the Linn bookshelves, it became apparent that the paradigms kind of blended everything together, so that while they were a very good sounding speaker overall, I realized they did have the clarity I was looking for. The Linns made that obvious. I was listening to a headhunters, the Herbie Hancock CD, and there's some electric guitar that wasn't nearly as noticeable when played on the paradigms. On the Linn's the guitar was right there, everpresent. When I went to Sound Factor and listened to the Dyn's, while I couldn't compare side by side, it just seemed to me they were better overall than the paradigms. The sound was cleaner in the mids and bass much tighter. Also, I felt that overall the dyn's packed so much power for the punch than the Paradigms. I'm sure I'm not explaining this right, but my thought is that since you've spent so much time listening to the speakers a trip up to sound factor on a saturday won't be wasted time. Call first, you want to make sure Dr. Jack is there. A real character, but very knowledgeable. In fact, I'm going back next week to compare the dyn 52's side by side with the 52SE's. If they're as good as people say, I'm trading up. I would say, make the trip. At least you'll know for sure. Also, there is another store about 10 minutes from Sound Factor that is a paradigm dealer. So you can go over and listen to them again, if you want. I thought that was pretty convenient. Anyway, just my 2 cent. |
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Bronze Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 28 Registered: Sep-04 | Checked out the threads & their site. I like the smaller size (center channel would work for me much better than a Paradigm CC470). Sounds like they have what I'm looking for. However, I still have a question: Pricing? Any idea what the 42s go for? The 42W? The 42C? I presume it's comparable to the Studio 20's; and those are WAY pushing my budget. I was thinking about a Studio 20, CC-470 or CC-370, and Titans as surrounds. I started at $200 for a set of mains & am now seriously considering those $800 Paradigms; the budget simply cannot move up any more. I have spent a bunch of time researching everything...but that's half the fun, though, right? I'm going from the typical know-nothing consumer who picks an all-in-one "system" off the shelf at Circuit City almost at random to hopefully a knowledgeable one who has a clue about exactly what he wants. So far I'm very happy with my first step (the SR5400). Speakers are next & a bit tougher as they are so subjective. It seems like a bunch of the favored brands on the board are very difficult to get around here. |
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Bronze Member Username: JamespMansfield , TX USA Post Number: 51 Registered: Apr-04 | MSRP 42-$800 pair 42C-$450 42W-$900 pair Check out listenup.com they have them for cheaper |
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Bronze Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 29 Registered: Sep-04 | Thanks. I also noticed they are all 4 ohm speakers. Would this be a problem on the SR 5400? |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 695 Registered: Aug-04 | The Marantz '300 series was 6 or 8 ohm. I'm sure the same applies to the '400 series. |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 741 Registered: Feb-04 | I'm also sure they wont be a problem to the 5400. The Dyns go only to 3.2ohms which isn't any lower than some 6 or 8 ohm speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 31 Registered: Sep-04 | Ok, thanks. I'm not sure if I really want to go listen though, adding up that setup comes to over $2k! =8O Well over my budget & that still doesn't include a sub. And being the bottom-end Dynaudio there's nowhere to go in the line but up. I'm even having second thoughts about the Paradigms, as what I have in mind will be $1500 vs. the Polks at about $800 or so. All still without a sub yet. It sucks having the champagne taste on a beer budget! Think I'll have to check on return policies & try to do a side-by-side comparison of the Paradigm & Polk at home. |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 744 Registered: Feb-04 | If you want champagne with the price of beer I suggest you try Quad 11L. If you want it with the price of Coke try Focal.JMlab Chorus 706S. |
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Bronze Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 34 Registered: Sep-04 | Thanks for the suggestion...again...I see you keep mentioning those, but I've kind of been ignoring them as I hadn't seen local dealers & assumed they were quite expensive. Wrong! Pricing is right in the ballpark (high end, but doable). And I dug a bit harder and found a local dealer for each. Best yet they are close to one another. I'll let you know what I think when I get a chance to run over there. From the few reviews I've read they sound like they are spectacular deals. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 699 Registered: Aug-04 | Just one thing. Regardless of what Landroval suggests about 4ohm speakers with the Marantz 5400, you'll notice on the rear panel at the speaker connections something like the following: minimum 6 ohm speakers. If you do use 4ohm rated speakers and have problems, Marantz may void your warranty. |
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Silver Member Username: Rh1Post Number: 159 Registered: Jun-04 | Chris...while admittingly I have never heard the Quads they do tend to review quite high in mags and on this site. I think they would be a great choice for you to demo. Check out the October issue of What Hi-Fi, they give a 5 of 5 for the Quads and similarly 5 of 5 for Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's which are in you budget. I have the Diamond 8.1's and they sound great for the price. Good luck and listening |
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nirradus Unregistered guest | Chris, Where did you find a place to listen to the Quad's?? BTW, the list on the Dyn 52's is $1000 and I got them for $880. I'm sure the 42's would be cheaper still. |
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Bronze Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 35 Registered: Sep-04 | I haven't called them yet as I'm not ready to pursue the speaker research for a while (car has gotten sick & has eaten my budget for a while). I found Audio Video Today in Westminster listed (14306 Beach Blvd). Phone is 714-893-7575. The neat thing is about two blocks away is Top Audio on Bolsa (8860 #C, also Westminster, phone 714-891-8944) who are listed as Focal.JMLab dealers, so I can make one trip out of it. Now if only the Paradigm dealer were closer to them (Pacific Coast Audio Video in Corona Del Mar). I'm hoping Audio Video Today might also carry Wharfedale. I have no idea what they actually have there & if there's even any kind of showroom to listen to the speakers in--it's hit & miss around here. It seems about half the mid to high-end HT dealers around here just want to do custom home installations & not bother with actually allowing customers to audition equipment. I guess most of their customers buy off spec sheets? My Rantz: yeah, I noticed that & that's why I asked. I really don't want to break my new toy--I think I'll try and stick with 6 or 8ohm speakers. Out of curiosity, what does running a 4ohm speaker on a 6ohm rated amp do to it exactly? Does it run hot, blow fuses? I do have a nice Radio Shack cooling fan right above the receiver & it now barely gets warm even after running movies for hours--the case is cool except directly over the supply heat sinks. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 733 Registered: Aug-04 | Chris The 4ohms could make the Marantz run very hot, go into protection, possibly cause damage. As Landroval suggested, the Dyns maybe okay as other speakers with higher nominal impedence can dip below what the Dyns can, but could void the warranty if discovered they helped cause a problem. I'm not up there technically so hopefully someone can tell you precisely what could happen with the receiver overloaded. I also have a small fan drawing air from the top of our SR-7300. Works well. |
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