EQ question

 

New member
Username: Tdisanto

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-05
Im interested in buying a Legacy LEQ12A equalizer for my system. I have Polk db690's powered by a Profile AP600 100WRMS * 2 amp in the rear and 3.5" Audiobahn ACS2035P's powered by a Profile AP400 65WRMS * 2 amp in the front. I dont have subs mainly because im not gunna waste money on non-top of the line equipment and i cant afford good subs and high powered amps right now. My question is, is this EQ worth buying (I can pick it up off ebay for $47 after shipping) because i know its a pretty budget EQ. However i want to gain knowledge and experience with this type of equipment. Even though this EQ is cheap, will it still make a noticeable improvement to my system?

The EQ is a 12 Band Graphic EQ with a 2nd order Butterworth crossover circuit. I would rather have a linkwitz-riley config. with a steeper slope but im in college now and money is tight.


Thanks a lot for your time.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9818
Registered: Dec-03
don't bother. profile isn't that exceptional, and audiobahn I can't stand at all, but legacy is total garbage. Here's my humble suggestion:
go to www.bcae1.com
read the sections on Equalisers, Slope, Crossover points, and other related material.
Get a firm understanding of EQs, and active/passive XOs.
Once you have a good understanding of XO points, slopes, and cut/boost for EQs, you'll start to see what the difference is between a graphic, parametric, paragraphic, and octave, 1/2 and 1/3 octave EQ is.

Then you'll know which type you want, if any, for your system, and we can discuss better brands to look at.

Audiocontrol.com should be your first stop for most EQ type gear for a car though unless you run specialized amplifiers like older Orion/PPI, or Zapco amps which offer their own high end signal processors
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9819
Registered: Dec-03
PS if you want more Q factor control over the EQ, as well as control over cut/boost frequency and amount of cut/boost.. get a parametric EQ or a 1/3 octave EQ with variable Q.
You won't however, find these for $45.

A pair of Audiocontrol EQT EQs from ebay would do the job.
So would an Orion DEQ-30 or Concept 97.2
 

New member
Username: Tdisanto

Post Number: 2
Registered: Sep-05
Glass-thanks for your advice. Ive researched much about Equilizers and signal processors because its actually what field i would like to enter into as an Electrical Engineering student. I just dont have a whole lot of money right now to spend on gear cause im in college, so i figured that Legacy EQ might do a little something good for my setup. Ill take your word for it though.

PS- In your opinion (You may be as nasty as you like, i would rather get the truth from a knowledgable source than have you tell me what i want to hear) why isnt Profile a decent amp (features to cost ratio). Also why cant you stand Audiobahn! (Audiobahn hasnt appealed to me in the past but they make the most powerful 3.5" speakers that i can find. (I want to keep the speakers in the stock location)

Sorry for the long post, but i want to hear from the expert.


-Mike
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9834
Registered: Dec-03
just not a big fan of profile's build quality, but they are cheap.. and if that's your price range I guess you can do worse. I forget who owns profile now.. it's some other low end company like power acoustik or something.

audiobahn.. gads.. aside from over-chromed blingy crap, the SQ of their subs is horrid, and their company practices of forced sales quotas by their retailers makes me nauseated.. That's why you see so much of their crap and why it's always shoved in your face when you go into any place that sells tehir junk. Their amps don't blow up like Sony amps do, but with corporate practices like that I'd rather spend elsehwere.
Just a matter of mys cruples combined with a strong dislike for scummy companies and cheap over-glitzed products that people think are fantastic and try to compare them to gear like I run, when they say "oh you got crap I've never even heard of.. f1status, dynaudio, resonant engineering? no name junk!" then they try to brag about having FLAME Q subs on a "3000 watt Legacy amplifier"
That's after lauging at me for having only three amps in my car rated at 250x2 (at 4 ohms) printed right on the amps. What they fail to realize is that they're looking at three 2250SX "beast" amps from Orion that actually put out about 1300 watts RMS each of class AB power with exceptional quality, and the amplifiers have been around longer than some of these kids have been.

I just laugh it off now, but I admit I have expensive tastes in just about everything, so I'd rather save for the best and buy once instead of constantly upgrading to new products slightly better than what you just had.


ok soapbox aside, as far as EQs go, my view is this: use one if you need it. Don't assume you need one, and if you can avoid using one, do it.
Themore signal processing you use, the more signal quality you lose as a result. Simple is always best, and the less EQing involved, the better off you are.
 

New member
Username: Tdisanto

Post Number: 3
Registered: Sep-05
I know exactly what you mean by people that actually think they have "top of the line stuff" just because they see it on the store shelves and its the most expensive (for that store). I get that all the time when i ask someone what they have in their car and they tell me they have a 12" sub with a 1000W amp. But they argue with me when i tell them there sony 1000w amp does not put out 1000w. Its just comical, really.

Anyways, ive noticed that the really high quality products are kinda hard to find because of the overrated main-stream brands that infiltrate the market which appeals mainly to the aforementioned people that just want to run chromed out amps with 1000w logos splattered across the top. Ive been looking through lots of old posts trying to get a list of what many of the experienced guys have been suggesting. I came to a link that you posted a while back which was a compiled list of top quality brands, however, i couldnt find it in the FAQ section of that site. If its not too much trouble could you possibly get that list again or direct me to where i can find info on these companies. I cannot afford these brands at the time (Hence im running Profile amps) but i just want to be knowledgable of whats out there.


Thanks a lot for your insight, it comes much appreciated.

PS, ive now decided against the Legacy EQ mainly because even though its only about $50, its not gunna add that much improvement to my setup like you said. I would rather have 1/3 octave audiocontrol down the road when i have a much cleaner/more quality setup.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9859
Registered: Dec-03
yeah and while a 1/3 octave like the EQT pairs are great, and can be had for about $200/pair on ebay these days, you do need an RTA to set them up, so figure in the cost of renting time on an analyzer to set the curves, too..

www.caraudiocentral.net has the list in stickies in the FAQ area now, you just need to register to access it.
the thread was locked to guests just due to the amount of plagerism we wer encountering there..
 

New member
Username: Tdisanto

Post Number: 6
Registered: Sep-05
Thanks for the link, the list was a lot more than I anticipated. At least I know what is good/bad now.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9877
Registered: Dec-03
remember that list is just a rough starting point for people. the "bad" products are generally the really cheap no-name ones, but there's a LOT of gray area in the rest of teh list.. so don't take it all as gospel. If you have doubts on a particular item you're eyeing, ask about it.
 

ECON
Unregistered guest
Something off the topic to add in responce to what GlassWolf said:

"but I admit I have expensive tastes in just about everything, so I'd rather save for the best and buy once"

Your home audio/video that I saw on wickedcases does not reflect your expensive tastes...Onkyo, Onkyo Integra, Panasonic, Mitsubishi..etc.

 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 10710
Registered: Dec-03
Mits made the best RP television at the time, aside from the pioneer elite, which was three times the price.
If you don't think KEF Reference and MartinLogan are expensive, or high end, I'd like to hear what you prefer.
I have the panny DVD player due to the Faroudja DCDi chipset, which was the only player to offer it for under about a grand at the time as well.
The Onkyo did what I needed, and offered features the Denon I looked at didn't. It's also just for HT.
For audio, as I believe I've mentioned before, I'm still using a Krell stereo class A amplifier and mark levinson pre-amp.

most of my money lately has been spent on other projects though, mainly building the car.
 

ECON
Unregistered guest
Oh, so you are using an amp / preamp combo. I saw no mention of that on wickedcases. All I saw was the Onkyo.

As for my preferance in home audio speakers, old school JBL and Klipsch from the 60s and 70s is all I use. You would have to spend alot to match those with todays speakers.

I also saw your cars. Jeep Grand Cherokee, the Ford Fiesta and the Chargers. Which is your daily driver? If I had expensive taste in everything I would drive something along the lines of a Hummer, Viper, Benz, Jaguar, BMW, etc.

Not that it really matters what you drive or what your home audio / theater consists of. And I don't mean to split hairs. I had looked at your site before reading this thread and all these things came to mind.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 10720
Registered: Dec-03
daily driver is the 440 charger. the hemi is mothballed to retain it's low milage.
The 01 Jeep is the winter vehicle, mainly bacause up north here we spend most of the year in snow, so driving a viper or a benz would be rather impractical, not to mention for the most part, I dislike newer cars.

JBL and Klipsch are ok.. Klipsch's horns are still popular with some people. The KEFs I use are from ca. 1991, end of production run for the 104/2 which was mostly made during the 1980s, and widely regarded as one of the best speakers they produced. Off axis imaging is fantastic, and they have a wonderful, flat 4 ohm resistive load from 20-20,000Hz along with a bi-wired crossover network that easily adapts to a bi-amped system if desired. The rosewood cabinets have some of teh best damping I've seen in their class as well. Even at painful volume levels, you can balane a nickle on it's edge on top of the cabinets, and it won't move.
As far as the MartinLogans go, you need to hear them to truly appreciate high end electrostatic panels. I have a pair of Odyssys which retail for around $6,500/pair base price. They're a bit on the large side, but they handle a 20x30' room flawlessly with enough output to mimmick a live performance without need of any additional subwoofer for low end response while maintaining such transparency and clarity that if you didn't see the ESL panels, you'd have a hard time distinguishing them from being in an actual club listening to the band.

going back to the cars though, for what it's worth, my charger has a faster 0-60 and quarter mile time than an enzo ferrari or pagani zonda so performance really isn't an issue for me. I like torque, and a lot of it, which is why I drive a car with a big block V8. That's something you just can't get in anything today without buying a pickup truck (bleh) or buying a supercar that relies on twin turbos and smaller displacement to get similar performance. The festiva, as ntoed on the site, was a car I had in the 90s, and was one of the show cars for the shop where I worked. While it was a fun little car around the city, mainly it was small for better SPL, and done to prove I could get good results with a small, cheap car. It was also a vehicle for my college years, while my other driver was a dodge shadow. again nothing all that super, but with a double major, who has time for cars anyway?
You practically have to get laid while doing homework and writing papers, at that point.
 

ECON
Unregistered guest
"JBL and Klipsch are ok.."

Their new stuff is ok. Their older stuff on the other hand is great. Far superior to the majority of hi-fi speakers (as opposed to home video) on the market today, or the last 15-20 years for that matter.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 10732
Registered: Dec-03
you're welcome to that opinion. JBL in the 80s was known for having teh lowest rated distortion, which is where they got their fame, but there are far better speakers out there as far as a flat repsonse goes. Klipsch is a large company and while they do make "good" speakers, I've never been a fan of their tonal quality. As I said, some people like Klipsch, some don't. Given the choice I'd go with B&W or KEF. I have a friend who loves his old horns though, and I'm glad he does. He enjoys them and that's what matters.

You're right that the current stuff isn't on par with the older stuff from either company thoug, and the same holds true of other companies including KEF, and quite a few others in home audio the same as with car audio.
It's an ever changing world.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mikechec9

Http://www.cardomain.c...

Post Number: 1279
Registered: May-05
pardon the rush on the thread, but i figured since the question was answered, i'd give it a try. if not, then i'll just start another thread.
glass, i recall you mentioning the martin logans before. my dad just got his first plasma and i opted to set up the HT for him.
so far i was leaning toward a good denon amp and a pair of ML's somewhere between the "clarity" through the "scripts". basically i want the best compromise between realism and money. not certain if a sub is also needed. help is appreciated as usual.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mikechec9

Http://www.cardomain.c...

Post Number: 1281
Registered: May-05
so, i'm aparently stuck in car audio land. noticed that the statements go for around... a corvette.
i recall you making mention of some lesser priced logans. was hoping for around 1g for the pair (or should i look at polks or something).
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 10779
Registered: Dec-03
you may want to look at used pairs in that range. their lowest models are around $1500/or I think?
Mine ran 6500/pr

with the smaller ESLs you'll definitely want a sub for a HT setup.
The Ascent and larger do well without need of a sub for bass you can feel.
My Odysseys pretty much shake the entire room without need of the sub.
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