Technical question

 

Silver Member
Username: Scubasteve

Annapolis, MD

Post Number: 435
Registered: May-05
For the gurus:

An amplifier is running at RMS voltage continuously and producing its rated power output. If the continuous power were to be doubled, the amp would now be producing a square wave output. The power now being produced is the same as the rated peak power output for the amplifier. My question is: can the amp produce this amount of power (rated as peak) for a split second without clipping the signal? I know its impossible over a period of time, but I'm just trying to figure out what the peak rating actually means.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 4478
Registered: May-04
"My question is: can the amp produce this amount of power (rated as peak) for a split second without clipping the signal? I know its impossible over a period of time, but I'm just trying to figure out what the peak rating actually means"

With the gains properly set and at the intended volume level, no. Music is recorded at a 0db reference level. For any material played, 0db will be the maximum volume level that can possibly be attained with the material. This usually meant hard bass drum kicks and other high transients. But anyway, when you set your gains it is common practice to use a sine wave playing a frequency in the intended range of the amplifier, at 0db level, and view the waveform on a scope. From that point, you would then set your gain where it is at maximum clean output, right on the verge of clipping. From there, a user would hopefully not surpass that volume level, possibly even go as far as to use a preamp so that you will never pass that level.

Now, to your situation (which is assuming the average user instead of the optimal user :-)). In cases with very good amplifiers with lots of headroom, a user could possibly overdrive the amplifier for a very short transient and not strain the output devices or the power supply, but this isn't ideal nor is it really clean power. Companies that make such amplifiers don't rate peak power output, though. The bigger problem (I know this isn't in line with your original question) is the way that music is recorded now. It is compressed tremendously for the sake of loudness, dynamic range is very little. Same reason that TV commercials seem louder than the program you're watching, it isn't really louder, it just has little dynamic range. In a case with this type of music, it is quite easy to overdrive an amplifier.

In conclusion, though, it is possible for an amplifier to have enough headroom to be overdriven for a short period of time, and not show a square wave. This is limited to the best amplifier companies, who take design seriously and don't even rate peak power to begin with because they know it's a gimmick marketing tool.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9465
Registered: Dec-03
this is one of the reasons my amplifier paper mentions good amplifiers having a power supply capable of producing at least three times the amplifier's rated power.
:-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 3967
Registered: Nov-04
Hey Scuba, the peak power mathematically, is suppose to be twice the RMS power, but as you know, Sony and Pyramid break those rules.
Here is the formula for power, P=E^2/R.
To find peak power, you have to subsitute peak voltage, and for RMS, RMS voltage. What the shabby companies like Sony and Pyramid are doing is using peak voltage.
Hifonics (I still think they're as sneaky as Sony), gives you RMS wattage as their output power. This is misleading cause when consumers see "1000w" or "2500w" on their ads, they are expecting to see that much power continuously, not just for a fraction of a second.
A quality manufacturer like Zapco/JL/US Amps etc, will state their "continuous" power rating. Meaning, that is what you will get whether you play for 1 sec or all day.
Take a look at all the cheap amps, they will NEVER state the word "continuously" when referring to power, *cough* Hifonics *cough*.
I have said this many times in the past, there is always a reason why Hifonic's 1000w is under $200 and JL's 1000w is over $700.

Think of a weight lifter that bench presses 300lbs once vs someone that can do it all day.

 

Silver Member
Username: Scubasteve

Annapolis, MD

Post Number: 439
Registered: May-05
Isaac, I was wondering if you would explain how it is that less dynamic range = louder. Is that just saying that if you were to play a 1000Hz test tone it would sound louder than music at the same level?

GW, when you say that good amplifiers have "a power supply capable of producing at least three times the amplifier's rated power" that really doesn't have to do with peak, correct? That just means the the amp is purposefully underrated by the company. What I gather from this is that "peak" power ratings are totally meaningless and can only be achieved, even momentarily, by driving the amp into clipping, assuming that the amp isn't overrated by the manufacturer.
 

Silver Member
Username: Scubasteve

Annapolis, MD

Post Number: 440
Registered: May-05
Oops, that question I asked Isaac was actually meant for Jonathan
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 9521
Registered: Dec-03
that means the power supply is "overbuilt" to handle transient demands and supply the current needed dynamically without clipping or compressing the signal.. it's a matter of headroom.
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