Complete Setup Suggestions and your OPINION: Phoenix Gold XS2500 amps

 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 155
Registered: Jul-04
Hey Everyone,

Sorry about my multiple posts, but I keep on changing my mind on the gear I am going to get. This post should make my questions a lot more clear, given the new information that has come to light. For readers of my other posts, you will know that my sub/amp has been stolen twice in the last 10 weeks, so my new install will have nothing in the trunk. Everything has to be stealthy, so no more sub/amp :-( No sub(s) in the rear deck either. All speakers must be inside the door skins (because they are a pain in the a$$ to take off with my VW, and the thieves don't go there).

FYI, my car is a 1999 VW Passat.

Here is the gear that I already have:
- Alpine CDA-9835 HU
- Focal Utopia 165W Component set for front

Possibilities for rear doors:
- Infinty Kappa Perfect 6.1 components ($230US used)
- Focal 5" subs (if I can get them used and cheap, but probably not likely)
- Kicker RMB8s if they will fit in my '99 Passat doors? ($120US used)
- Kicker F6.5c free air subs (easier to install, but I heard it is more of a midbass anyways) ($120US used)
- JL 6W0 subs (if I can get at decent price, and if they can fit the doors)

I also need a 4-channel amp or two 2-channel amps (prefereable) to power all of this.

Possiblity for amplifiers:
- Two used Phoenix Gold XS2500s for $300 - $320US for the pair, and I can run each one bridged for the fronts and for the rears

First off, do you think that these PG amps would work well for any application? Do they have good SQL? Is it a good price? Would it be hard on my alternator to run two of these? I am not familiar with PG XS line . . . is it their bottom-end gear? I need to know whether or not I should pick these amps up ASAP beause it is a local sale . . .

Second, what do you suggest for the rears? I just want half-decent bass in my car. I am going for SQL this time. Nothing needs to pound. I like the idea of subs in the rear for my listening enjoyment, but for the possibly little bit of benefit they offer to me in the front, maybe I am better off putting the Kappa Perfects in the rear so that people in the back can enjoy the stereo too?

My budget is a maximum of about $500 for the amp(s) and the rear speakers (which I can probably swing with the Infinty Perfects and the two PG amps). If you have suggestions on other equipment as well for the amps and rear speakers, please let me know.

Your input is valued and greatly appreciated!!
Bryan
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 157
Registered: Jul-04
Also, another possiblity for the rear doors is:
- Kicker C65d4 Comp VR 6-1/2 ($80US used)

Although, these are sealed subs. I think I could get away with running them free air if I seal them in the doors good with brown bread (a local SQL audiophile has done this with 5" Focal with much success). They are certainly cheaper, and newer than the F6.5c's

Thanks,
Bryan
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 158
Registered: Jul-04
Also, more possibilities for amps:
- Kicker KX-300.4 to power fronts or rears ($100-$125 used)
- Avionixx 440.4 ($200 used)
- RF Power series 450S ($125 - $140 used)

I don't knwo much about all of these amps, so your input would really help! Out of the PG, Kicker, Avionixx, and RF, which is the best amp?

Thanks!
Bryan
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 2261
Registered: Nov-04
My first choice would be PPI PC/PCX series for their price and performance.
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 159
Registered: Jul-04
I don't have the PPI listed as a possibility, but I can consider it. Do you know where I could get one or two of them?

Thanks,
Bryan
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 160
Registered: Jul-04
Hey Isaac,

I just noticed that there is a PPI A400 for sale like a 10 minute drive from my place on Ebay right now. All I read are good things about this amp. I am going to see if he will end the auction early if it is powerful enough to power my Focals (can't find specs yet). How much do you think it is worth? Would it work in my application?

Thanks again!
Bryan
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 161
Registered: Jul-04
And should I also pick this up to power my rears?

http://www.canadiancaraudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=007645#000000

Is that a good price? Not as good as the A400 though, is it? I guess I would use the A400 to power the Focals?

I was told that the Kicker RMB8s woudl fit in the rear doors of my Passat because they are not very deep, so do you think that is what I should get for the rears?

Thanks!!!
Bryan
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 163
Registered: Jul-04
You have to copy the entire link and paste it for it to work . . . sorry . . .

Bryan
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 2263
Registered: Nov-04
That PPI PC-450 is a great amp. It will give you the best possible sound for the money. Get it if you can. It's enough for your setup. If your front components were 2ohms instead of 4ohms, you would be getting 100w rms.
If you get PPI PC2300.2 amp then you are set. You can use that to power the fronts (75w rms x2 @ 4ohms, 150w rms x 2 @2ohms) and use the PPI PC-450 bridged 200w rms x 2 for the rears. You won't find anything better than that in terms of sound quality and price.
For the rears, don't waste too much time, it not as important as the front.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 2263
Registered: Nov-04
That PPI PC-450 is a great amp. It will give you the best possible sound for the money. Get it if you can. It's enough for your setup. If your front components were 2ohms instead of 4ohms, you would be getting 100w rms.
If you get PPI PC2300.2 amp then you are set. You can use that to power the fronts (75w rms x2 @ 4ohms, 150w rms x 2 @2ohms) and use the PPI PC-450 bridged 200w rms x 2 for the rears. You won't find anything better than that in terms of sound quality and price.
For the rears, don't waste too much time, it not as important as the front.
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 164
Registered: Jul-04
Hey Isaac,

I tried, but that PC-450 is already sold :-( Darn!! I was hoping to get it . . .

I never mentioned the PPI PC2300.2 . . . where did that come from? I don't think 75W x 2 is powerful enough for the Focals which run at 100W. I hear that you should give them more than 100W RMS so that they get good clean power . . .

I was asking about the PPI A400 (which is actually a PPI Ax400, I was mistaken). What do you think that amp is worth? Would it be good for the Focals?

Also, do you think I should put the RMB8s in the rear? Woudl it improve my SQL up front?

Thanks,
Bryan
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 2267
Registered: Nov-04
You would be surprised with the actual power of 2300.2 amp. From my testing, it put out close to 100w rms.
Ax400 is a good amp also. I wouldn't pay any more than $270 cause of age.
If you can get RmB8s then sure.
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 165
Registered: Jul-04
Mayeb these Cadence's would be easier to install and better? Here is the PM I got:

"Hey, I have a pair of new in the box Cadence ZX-6M mids, killer midbass/small subs. I picked up a few pairs of these a while back when I worked at a shop. We installed a pair in my brothers old pickup, a Toyota, and with some sound deadening around them they rattled his side mirrors nicely. Here are some specs:

6.5" woven fiberglass midbass driver
Butyl rubber surround
1.25" aluminum voice coil with phase plug
25oz magnet
2.75" mounting depth
93db sens. 1w/1m
100 watts rms/200 watts peak power handling

http://www.cadencestore.com/ProductCart/pc/caraudio_detail.asp?idcategory=44&idproduct=101

Looking for $110 shipped for them. Will try to get some pics of these when i pick up a digital camera, soon. I have lots of good feedback. Thanks!"

What do you think of that?
Bryan
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 2268
Registered: Nov-04
You know what, for the rears, it's good enough. Almost anything will do for midbass. $110 shipped is not a bad deal.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 2273
Registered: Nov-04
.
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 166
Registered: Jul-04
Hey Isaac,

Your last message at 5:00PM is blank :S

Is this correct? It says they have the Candence for about $27/speaker or $54/pair.

http://www.splaudio.net/cadence/cadspkr.htm

Maybe I should negotiate a better deal?

Thanks,
Bryan
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 2276
Registered: Nov-04
According to that site, you are getting ripped off. Send them the link and explain why $110 is a good deal for you.
If you're planning to upgrade some more in the future, then Candence will do, if not some of the eBay links I gave you before is a better choice. I am positive it'll produce more pleasant bass response.
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 167
Registered: Jul-04
Just when I thought I was getting somewhere . . . :P

What about this? Would this work as a midbass driver? It is local to me:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem%26item%3D5764273319%26&sspagename= STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT%26

Or what about this old-school Focal?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem%26item%3D5764409243%26&sspagename= STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT%26

Or these Focals?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem%26item%3D7313560596%26&sspagename= STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT%26

Thanks again :-)
Bryan
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 2277
Registered: Nov-04
The links don't work for me. YOu should instead post the eBay item number.
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 169
Registered: Jul-04
Just when I thought I was getting somewhere . . . :P

What about this? Would this work as a midbass driver? It is local to me:
5764273319

Or what about this old-school Focal?
5764409243

Or these Focals?
7313560596

Thanks again :-)
Bryan
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 170
Registered: Jul-04
I can't remeber if it was you or someone else, but they suggested this Image Dynamics sub to me:

http://www.cardomain.com/item/IDSID8V3D2?ref=bizrdf

I read the specs at car domain, and it seems to have everything I want! An 8" Sub, High-Quality name, decent price, should fit in my rear doors, and can be run FREE AIR :D I would still seal up my doors good with Brown Bread to give it an enclosure effect. What do you think of this idea Isaac?

Also, if I got two subs like this, should I get a monoblock amp? What kind of amp should I be looking for? How woudl the subs be wired up for maximum efficiency?

Thanks again!!!!
Bryan
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 171
Registered: Jul-04
RIght now it is 15% off everything at car domain, and they will even ship to Canada for free! In the end, it would cost me only $186.90 for the pair, shipped to my door.

Can I close the case? Have I finally got something that will work for me?

Thanks!
Bryan
 

Gold Member
Username: James1115

Wilton, Ct

Post Number: 2205
Registered: Dec-04
that IDQ8 is a very nice little sub that packs alot of punch, another 8 to look inot is the RE 8 they are cheap and sound great. I would get that .a400 for your focals if you can grab it
it is perfect for you, 100x2 at 4ohms,200x2 @ 2ohms and 400x1 bridged at 4ohms. I have an a600.2 and I love it:-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 172
Registered: Jul-04
Where can you buy the RE8 online?

So far I am liking the looks of the IMage Dynamics :-) It is just what I have been looking for (and it took me ALL DAY today :P)

Regards,
Bryan
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 173
Registered: Jul-04
Still curious about the old-school Focal's as well . . .

Ebay #s
5764409243
7313560596

Regards,
Bryan
 

Silver Member
Username: Fishy

Tamarac Ft.Laud, FL USA

Post Number: 879
Registered: Sep-04
8's in the rear doors of a Passat?

I guess you don't HAVE to roll down the back windows. Otherwise I don't see how you'd keep them "stealth". I still think you'd be better of mounting them in your rear deck and covering the whole thing with grill cloth.

-Fishy
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 174
Registered: Jul-04
You think that the subs woudl interfere with the operation of the back windows? I thought that the Passat doors were pretty deep and could take the entire speaker without a problem? I don't know though, as I never do installation stuff. . .

Do you know where I could find out for sure? The Image Dynamics has a 4.75" mounting depth (which unfortunately is larger than most of the other 8" subs I have found)

Thanks!
Bryan
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 175
Registered: Jul-04
Or shoudl I be looking for Illusion Audio ID8 (someone on another board recommended them). Would they give good bass and SQL?

Thanks!
Bryan
 

New member
Username: Shadow_d

Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-05
hey there people, i'll be upfront here and now,I have no idea of what i am wanting to achieve appart from lots of sound from my car, but with having next to no knowlage i am looking for some advice or even allot, i'll let you decide, my idea is to have 2x15" 1400w subwoofers in a home made bok but also in the box at the top i was looking at putting 4x 400w 7x10 just for the rear of the car in the doors i am thnking 17cm 2220w for front and rear my player headset is 4x52wat and 3 pre-outs, would realy like your advice on how many amps i would need and how many wats each amp needs
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jesuspunk25

Post Number: 33
Registered: Jan-05
so start your own topic.
 

Silver Member
Username: Fishy

Tamarac Ft.Laud, FL USA

Post Number: 880
Registered: Sep-04
You think that the subs woudl interfere with the operation of the back windows?

To get a quick guesstimate w/o taking your doorskins off just measure the outside width of the doors. If they're more than 9" wide you've got a chance. If so yank the door skins and check for sure. You may be the surprised at all the crap thats crammed in there.

:-)

With a bit of custom work(spacers, etc.) you'd probably get those ID8's to fit, but it might take a master installer to get them to look stealth.

Open up your trunk and stick your head inside and check out that rear deck. Measure the width and look for any critical braces, etc. that might get in the way. If the top is nice and flat you could add a simple frame(s) and some grill cloth and most peeps wouldn't know you had anything there. Heck you might even be able to leave some of the stock rear deck material in place(thin carpet, cloth or whatever it is) and really have a stealthy setup.

The only downside I could see would be that if your rear seats fold down to increase "trunk space" you might lose out on some cargo carrying ability. Its a good idea to seal that trunk off from the cabin to get the most out of that type of IB setup.

I'm NOT a professional installer however. I've just been messing with mine and my friends' systems for a lil over 20 years. Before you do anything you might want to get some advice from the pros, i.e. Glass, Jonathan, or maybe Zac if he's still around. I wish I was a lil more familiar with those Passats so I could give you better advice.

Just remember. You only want to do this once. I wouldn't worry about gettin your entire system up and running all at once. Get those focals installed with a really clean amp. Play with the time alignment on that 9835(?) as well as some shallow slope, high pass settings til you get your imaging how you like it and then enjoy what you have for about a week.

You'll probably be able to make better decisions then.

-Fishy
 

Silver Member
Username: Fishy

Tamarac Ft.Laud, FL USA

Post Number: 881
Registered: Sep-04
If you're into bargain hunting, here's a few old school mids+highs amps that I've had experience with:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4950%26item%3D5766638577% 26

That amp will give you a pretty conservative 100 watts per side bridged. A few of Soundstream's Class A offerings were some of THE best sounding amps for components I've ever heard. Its a shame they're not the company they used to be.

Here's another option:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18796%26item%3D5765235860 %26

That ones broke, but Xtant isn't all that well known of and you can sometimes pick one up dirt cheap. These old school Xtants aren't quite as "warm" as the Class A SS's, but they are very accurate and punchy amps. I own an Xtant 4180c bridged into am a pair of MB Quart 5 1/4 Q's(180w a side) and it makes those lil pigs go although it sounds a bit better in 4 ohm operation, just doesn't get the volume. I don'tknow about those Focals but the Q's seem to require a good deal of power. Keep your eye out for that amp as well. You should be able to snag either one for less than 200 bucks if you're patient.

Then there's Zapco, Arc Audio, and of course Isacc's Art Series stuff(I think he sleeps with an A600.2 :P), but those are well known brands and it might be a lil more difficult to get one cheap. I have some experience with pre Art Series PPI and you might be able to get hold of one of those cheap..... like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18796%26item%3D5765257487 %26

I owned a 4200m(4x50) and it sounded great..... until I upgraded to a SS Class A 100II :P. It had a very flat response which unfortunately didn't sound quite as good with my A/D/S 320i's as that Soundstream. I believe those Focals have titanium tweets which would probably be a good match for that 2150.

Oh well enough rambling. Take your time. You've got fantastic components. Feed em the good stuff.

:-)

-Fishy
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 176
Registered: Jul-04
Hey Fishy,

Once again, thanks for all of you input. It helps me out a lot!

I would liek to try and get everything fairly quickly. I want to have everything all installed the same day (it is an insurance claim).

I like the sounds of the PPI 2150, if I can get it relatively cheap. I am hoping to mayeb get it for the minimum bid. This amp is just like the A600.2 that Isaac "sleeps" with? :P It sounds like it would be a good match to my Utopias.

If you happen to see any other amps that catch your eye, please let me know :-)

Thanks again!
Bryan

 

Silver Member
Username: Fishy

Tamarac Ft.Laud, FL USA

Post Number: 886
Registered: Sep-04
I don't know if its "exactly" the same. It may have a wimpier power supply and not do as well at 2 ohms. My 4200m was only rated at 150x2 bridged into 4 ohms, but since you'll be running that thing at a 4 ohm load in stereo it probably wouldn't perform much differently than the A600.2.

Do realize that the "M" or MOS series of PPI amps were pretty much their very first line circa 1989 or so, i.e. thats a pretty old amplifier so bid accordingly.

Another thing is that back then that 2150 would probably be considered a "sub amp", so it may sound a bit different than the 4200m. This was the time when everyone was using Punch 150's and 300 watts @ 4 ohms was a poopload of power and pretty expensive. That amp retailed for 625 dollars.

http://www.precisionpower.com/ppipdfs/general/retail1.pdf

Shhhhhh..... don't tell Isaac. That price list was very hard to find and since Directed owns PPI now, could disappear at any moment.

I think I'll print it out now!.... just in case.

-Fishy
 

Silver Member
Username: Fishy

Tamarac Ft.Laud, FL USA

Post Number: 887
Registered: Sep-04
Well if you're in a hurry here's a 6w0 link(only one I could find) in case you don't have a dealer nearby:

http://www.woofersetc.com/product.asp?0=314&1=318&3=3151

-Fishy
 

Silver Member
Username: Bdonkersgoed

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 179
Registered: Jul-04
Hey Fishy,

Can you please check out my other thread? I would value your input there:

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/131310.html

Thanks!
Bryan
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