Wiring Question/Problem
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New member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 5 Registered: Dec-04 | I've got a Sony mono amp that does 500 RMS Watts @ 4 ohms and 900 watts @ 2 ohms. Obviously, I want to run my subs at 2 ohms. But can I? I want to get (2) four ohm dual voice coil subs. Is it possible to wire these down to 2 ohms? From What I've seen, I can only wire them to 8 or 4 ohms. Maybe I'm wrong, at least I hope so. Certainly I should be able to wire them down to 2 ohms so I can give them more power. Thanks in advance. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6834 Registered: Dec-03 | you want to get...? so you don't have the subs yet? this is good. you actually want two dual 2 ohm coil subs, or two single 4 ohm coil subs. whatever you're looking to buy should come in one of these two flavors. There's only one sub I can think of at the moment for cars that doesn't come in anything but one coil configuration, and that may even have changed by now. just get the right model of subs and you'll be fine. two dual 4 ohm coil subs will not get you a 2 ohm load on a mono amp. only on a bridged stereo amp. |
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New member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 6 Registered: Dec-04 | I'm looking at the Kappa Perfects. (12" model). Unfortunately, they only come in dual 4 ohm models. And I just ordered a mono amp. It has a max rating of 1600X1, but at 4 ohms, it runs at 500 RMS. You think 250 RMS will be enough to power two Kappas. The Kappas can handle 350 RMS and up to 1400 watts of max power. |
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New member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 7 Registered: Dec-04 | I'm also looking at the Alpine R types. This might be a good solution if you don't think the Kappas will be given enough juice from my amp at 4 ohms. I'd just prefer to get the Kappas. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6856 Registered: Dec-03 | I'd strongly suggest you send the sony amp back. if it's unopened and new it should be returnable. sony is one of the worst most unreliable brands with the highest failure rates in the industry. then, you can buy the right amp to match the subs you want. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6857 Registered: Dec-03 | and the type R subs are a better choice than the Infinity subs anyway in my personal opinion. they also come in dual 2 or dual 4 ohm coil models. |
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New member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 8 Registered: Dec-04 | I actually found out the Kappas do come in a single voice coil. I'll likely be getting the Kappas. There have been nothing but outstanding reviews conerning the Kappa Perfects. In fact, significantly better than the Alpine Type Rs. I've hard the Alpine Type Rs have trouble when hitting the extremely low notes. I think a lot of people don't give any credit to the Kappas due to the fact they haven't heard much about them. I've researched both of them from top to bottom and am lead to the conclusion that the Kappa Perfects are a better choice. As for the amp, I know I'm probably taking my chances. Its not the best amp in the world, but I can't afford anything else that can give out the same power rating (even if it is slightly overrated). It cost me $162, with shipping included. I consider that to be a pretty dang good deal. If it fails on me, well I've learned my lesson. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6878 Registered: Dec-03 | "There have been nothing but outstanding reviews conerning the Kappa Perfects. In fact, significantly better than the Alpine Type Rs. I've hard the Alpine Type Rs have trouble when hitting the extremely low notes." reviews by whom? anyone telling you a type R can't hit down to well below human hearing range is an idiot. those subs are outstanding, and the only reason they wouldn't hit deeply would be poor enclosure choice or design. Use a sealed box and they'll go to 9Hz flat. Use a bandpass box and any sub on earth is going to be limited to the response curve of the lousy bandpass enclosure. The kappa perfect is a good sub, and very good for detail, but it's not a high output sub. the biggest complaint I get about the Infinity subs are that they just aren't "enough" for most people regarding their output. I have to question just how much research you're really done since you a: didn't even know the subs came in two coil configurations, and b: apparently haven't auditioned either brand yourself, which is really what you should do with any speaker before buying one. Personally I've dealt with both Infinity and Alpine as a retailer and installer for the last 15 years. I've heard both, on a pretty much daily basis. Regarding that amp and even these subs too, the real lesson here is that you need to really do your research before impulse buying. Apparently you haven't done much research on product reliability or quality or you'd know that Sony is the plague of the audio industry for mobile audio. for about $160 delivered you could have gotten a JBL bp600.1 as well, which would have given you 600wRMS x 1 @ 2 ohms, and been a much better product in every manner. That's only one example of a similar, but better made product you can find with a little effort. best of luck. |
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New member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 9 Registered: Dec-04 | I've only been on the boards here for a few days. However, I have noticed that you are viewed almost as the 'godfather.' You see all and know all. Everybody respects your opinion. It is obvious that you know what you are talking about, and I am thankful for your insightful opinion. However, I don't need you to come off at my like I'm some punk 16 year old kid looking to 'bump his sheeyat.' These forums are littered with many of these 'types' of people. In fact, I'm not sure how you can stand to post here on a daily basis here. The vocabulary used on these boards is that of a 6th grader and the education completion level can't be much higher. Anyway, I didn't post to argue about the politics. A) I'll admit, I did not intitially notice the two different Kappa models. The official name is the Kappa Perfect 12.1D. That is the dual voice coil model. The single voice coil model simply leaves off the 'D.' When I was researching the specs and consumer opinions of the subs I didn't catch the difference. The dual voice coil is the far more popular model, and little is said of the single voice coil model. This, was indeed, my mistake. I only realized what was going on when I started trying to figure out how I would wire the dual voice coils to my mono amp. Then, I realized, something was wrong. I went back and looked for the product directly from infinity (which I had previously not done) and found the single voice coil model. True, I did not know there were two different models intinitally because I didn't realize it would effect me (and my ability to run (2) subs at 2 ohms). B) I live in Topeka. I assume you've taken geography class and have an idea that it is small city (150,000) located in Kansas. Unfortunately, here in the Kansas, we seem to be about 3 years behind everything. And no, I'm not joking. We have, from what I know, two official car audio shops in this town. Neither, to my knowledge, sells Infinity products. One of the shops does sell the Alpine Type R. However, I didn't notice it hooked up properly on display. Therefore, I was unable to listen to the subwoofer. Trust me, if the products will available to me to 'test' them out, I'd definately give them a try. But unfortunately, I do not have that option. In regards to the amp, the Sony received positive reviews. Now, I'm realistic, and know that most people will claim whatever they own is the best. I didn't buy the Sony knowing I had the end-all amp on the market. I bought the Sony knowing I had a 1 year warranty and good amount of power. The JBL you pointed out doesn't have the power of the Sony model I bought. The Sony can run at 900X1 RMS. Knowing these Kappas can take 350 RMS, I'd say Sony was probably the better choice. Really, its just a difference of opinion. There were several other amps with cheaper prices and similar output, however, these were off brands that scared me away. I did not even consider the Audiobahn amps. If you ask me, they have far too large and varying production line. Finally, just one point about the Alpine Type R. I'm simply going off of the manufacturer specifications. It says 24 hz. Plain and simple. I don't have the ability or money, for that matter, to build a glorious box that can tune it all the way down to 9 hz (which I find this hard to believe in the first place). I'm thinking two Kappa Perfects could easily handle the Alpine Type Rs any day of the week. You have, as you claim, dealt with these products on a daily basis. I respect your opinion but I need a more detailed explanation as to why the Alpine Type Rs would be a better solution. Every specification leads me to the conclusion that the Kappas have them beat in every area (magnet, cone, power handeling, frequency response, ect...). I look forward to your reply. |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 62 Registered: Nov-04 | "However, I don't need you to come off at my like I'm some punk 16 year old kid looking to 'bump his sheeyat.' These forums are littered with many of these 'types' of people." Firstly, I'm a 16 year old looking to get my car to bump my sh!t, and I'd like you to give me a reason that this motivation is bad. Secondly, being so abraisive and annoying is not going to get you anything except an angry response, such as this one, from most people. Thirdly, not to argue politics, but ignorant people like you are the reasons stereotypes are created and held. Finally, like Glasswolf said, do your research or simply ask here. If you really have done your research then you can defend your position. I'm not speaking for Glasswolf, but I'm sure he doesn't want to listen to people get pissy because they think that they are always right but really know nothing. I beg to differ if you claim to have done your research, when, if you would have looked at ONE page of reviews you would likely have found lots of unsatisfactory reviews. So get your facts straight before you start getting all uppity. I look forward to your reply. |
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New member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 10 Registered: Dec-04 | First (not firstly), If you could point out where I said, "I'm right, you are wrong," I would greatly appreciate it. Second, 16 year old kids like you care nothing about sound quality. Rather, instead, you just want something that hits loud and hard. It can be as sloppy as can be, but if it shakes your trunk off, you are happy. Third, I have not found "lots of unsatisfactory reviews" in regards to the Kappa Perfects. Please, if you will, point me to that list. That is all. And remember kids, stay in school. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 2867 Registered: May-04 | "Finally, just one point about the Alpine Type R. I'm simply going off of the manufacturer specifications. It says 24 hz. Plain and simple. I don't have the ability or money, for that matter, to build a glorious box that can tune it all the way down to 9 hz (which I find this hard to believe in the first place)." You're trusting specifications too much. Specs vary, because some manufacturers lie or play around with specs a little too much, aka "weighted". Frequency response is a spec that's done anechoic, meaning usually infinite baffle in an open room, with a certain variance(+/- 3db is an example, some don't even list it). So, for example, the Alpine Type R, being rated at 24 hz, it may be 3.1 db down at 23 hz, so the spec will say it goes down to 24. It'll still play down that low, it just isn't quite as loud in an open room. It has little effect on the real freq. response you'll get inside a vehicle. In a car, you have cabin gain, which compensates for the rolloff of an enclosure, so it allows sealed boxes to play down to around 9 hz flat, and nearly any sub can play this low, some just aren't as authoritative doing it. Try to read up on thiele/small parameters, the specs you've looked at (magnet, cone, power handeling, frequency response) are useless, honestly. The impedance curve, inductance, suspension compliance, motor strength, and other factors are much more important to the output of a subwoofer. It also hints at what kind of enclosure gives best results. As far as the amp, Sony may as well be an off brand, honestly. Their mobile audio is THE worst stuff you can buy, you'll likely be using that warranty many, many times. Their home audio isn't something to scream about either, but at least it's somewhat reliable. The 900W RMS spec of of that amp isn't really true, they're overrated. The JBL amp is solid and is perfect for a pair of SVC 4 ohm Infinity Perfects or Alpine Type Rs. It typically puts out closer to 700W RMS at 2 ohms when a car is running with +/- 14.4V. Just my advice, you'd be happier to send it back and get the JBL. I really don't trust reviews on products, I typically rely on personal experience or friends that have used products. Most people that review do so the day it's installed, before it fails. So yeah, while everything works, sure they'll say it was a good buy. You have to pay attention to who's reviewing as well. Reading reviews of products such as Sony tends to make me think about how much of an insult some people are to human society. When you read "yeah, my boy hooked 2 of these Sony 12s up to a boss amp, these things hit. they can take 1100 peak watts, just get a peak rated amp like the boss 1400 and you'll be good to go, my rear view mirror shakes, it's awesome" It kinda makes you wonder how little it would take to please an idiot like that, know what I mean? |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 67 Registered: Nov-04 | According to http://www.webster.com/ "One entry found for firstly. Main Entry: first·ly Pronunciation: -lE Function: adverb : in the first place : FIRST" So firstly, let's not make this a grammer war when I, being a tenth grader, have better grammer than you. Secondly, unlike your ignorant stereotypical remarks indicate, 16 year olds do care about sound quality. Right now I have a Kicker L7 and I'm now going to get a better system soley because the SQ is not up to my standards for the L7. Thirdly, I was making the remark about "lots of unsatisfactory reviews" in regards to the Sony Amp. That is all. And remember sir, you are a dumba$$. Go back to school. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 2868 Registered: May-04 | And really Michael, both are great subs for SQ purposes, the Type Rs just have a little more SPL. Both go very low, they're actually very similar in that respect. If you want a great budget sub that is very authoritative down low and retains excellent sound quality, look into the Adire Audio Shiva. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 11 Registered: Dec-04 | "According to http://www.webster.com/ "One entry found for firstly. Main Entry: first·ly Pronunciation: -lE Function: adverb : in the first place : FIRST" So firstly, let's not make this a grammer war when I, being a tenth grader, have better grammer than you. Secondly, unlike your ignorant stereotypical remarks indicate, 16 year olds do care about sound quality. Right now I have a Kicker L7 and I'm now going to get a better system soley because the SQ is not up to my standards for the L7. Thirdly, I was making the remark about "lots of unsatisfactory reviews" in regards to the Sony Amp. That is all. And remember sir, you are a dumba$$. Go back to school." I just found it very amusing that you used, 'firstly.' While it is not incorrect, it draws unecessary attention (because of the ly) to the word. In fact, as far as the context is concerned, your 'firstly', 'secondly', and 'thirdly' were all pointless. Usually, you are required to have a complete paragraph, or in your case, a complete thought to use the logical connectors. But, hey, its really just a difference of opinion. Now, perhaps, before you start to run your mouth at me again about 'grammer,' PLEAE LEARN HOW TO SPELL THE WORD. It is 'grammar.' NOT 'GRAMMER.' You had a good logical response going until you tried to spell the word. Ouch. That is all I can say. Once again, stay in school, kid. |
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Bronze Member Username: Eric77Post Number: 56 Registered: Nov-04 | Michael, I have nothing against you and actually didnt think your posts had a derrogatory tone or anything to them (except for those directed at djeter), but being a 16 yr old I had to comment on your "16 year olds care nothing about sq" comment. Like I said, I am 16 and I want my system to BUMP as does just about every other teenager. However, SQ is huge to me. I can not stand sloppy subs, distortion, or rattles in my car. I currently have 2 high end diamond subs that have amazing sq imo, have no distortion at almost any volume and are in no way sloppy. Unfortunately, my car rattled a lot when I first installed them. I then used some edead in my trunk and the sound is 10 times better, but there are still a few rattles that most would just ignore that bother the h*ll out of me. Next time before you make any generalizations about 16 year olds that want loud systems, remember that some may have even higher sq expectations than yourself. Back to the initial topic, I HIGHLY suggest you return the sony amp if at all possible. This amp is extremely overrated and will probably clip quite a bit if you try and crank it up which could damage your subs. Regardless of how good of subs you get youll always be crippled by that sony amp if you hold onto it. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 12 Registered: Dec-04 | Well, I bought the Sony amp off of EBAY. I can't return it. I can, however, resell it and hope to make most of my money back. I'd probably take a hit on shipping. Anyway, what type of amps would you recommond that are under $200. I don't have a large budget in this department. Seeing as I'll be spending a decent amount on my subs, enclosure, and then two sets of speakers, I'll be pretty limited on funds. Remember, I'm probably going to need something that can feed my subs at least 250 watts each (RMS). I've looked through EBAY and didn't find much in the mono amp section. There is a JBL one that doesn't look too bad, I'll have to see what it goes for. Other than that, its pretty slim pickins. |
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Bronze Member Username: Eric77Post Number: 57 Registered: Nov-04 | You should keep an eye out for a jbl bp600.1 It is an underrated amp so it will actually give you 700+ watts. They are somewhat hard to find though. If you find one it should go for around 200 new and a little less if used. |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 70 Registered: Nov-04 | Grammer is a British variant of spelling grammar, and having been born in South Africa with British ancestory, it only makes sense that I would spell it as such. So please, kiss my a$$. |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 71 Registered: Nov-04 | And if you're so concerned with SQ, why get a piece of sh!t amp that won't allow your subs to sound anywhere near their potential? |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 72 Registered: Nov-04 | I took the liberty to fix your entry because you seemed a little comma happy and, in general, a little clueless about your "GRAMMAR". You might want to check your Caps Lock key as well. Here it is: I just found it very amusing that you used "firstly." While it is not incorrect, it draws unnecessary attention, because of the ly, to the word. In fact, as far as the context is concerned, your "firstly", "secondly" and "thirdly" were all pointless. Usually you are required to have a complete paragraph, or, in your case, a complete thought to use the logical connectors. But hey, it's really just a difference of opinion. Now perhaps, before you start to run your mouth at me again about "grammer," PLEASE LEARN HOW TO SPELL THE WORD. It is spelled grammar, NOT "GRAMMER." You had a good, logical response going until you tried to spell the word. Ouch. That is all I can say. Once again, stay in school kid. |
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Bronze Member Username: Pdivvy5New Port Richey, FL United States Post Number: 83 Registered: May-04 | Yankees suck |
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Bronze Member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 13 Registered: Dec-04 | Please, do us the favor. While you are in the United States (as it appears you are), please follow English grammar rules. Thank you. Before you dig yourself any deeper into that hole you've dug, just think before you open your mouth. |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 74 Registered: Nov-04 | Corrections: Please do us a favor. While you are in the United States, as it appears you are, please follow English grammar rules. Thank you. Before you dig yourself any deeper into the hole that you've dug, just think before you open your mouth. I'm done now, so I'll stop. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmhuosrktaysRochester, New York USA Post Number: 26 Registered: Sep-04 | Actually, the United States doesn't have an official language. So, as much as I don't agree with the spelling of 'grammer', he has the right to use it. Oh, by the way I have a whole Sony system, and I haven't had anything ever break or mess up on me, and it sounds great. |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 75 Registered: Nov-04 | Good point, I am following English grammer rules. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6909 Registered: Dec-03 | "Oh, by the way I have a whole Sony system, and I haven't had anything ever break or mess up on me, and it sounds great." and this proves something? It doesn't disprove the fact that Sony has one of the hihgest failure and return rates in the industry, which they do. You've been lucky, and I applaud that. I'm glad you haven't had any problems with your system, but this doesn't prove that Sony makes a good product. There are plenty of people who haven't had problems with some of the worst products on the market, but the overwhelming number of people who have generally tend to outweigh those few with better luck. A high failure rate doesn't mean every person who buys a Sony product will have problems. It does however, mean that they stand a very good probability of encountering problems, and with Sony, generally within a year of purchase. I've seen Sony systems win SPL events, generally in lower classes, but honestly, their SQ isn't that good compared to many other similarly priced products. That being said though, audio is generally subjective anyway, so if you're happy with it, that's all that matters in the end. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 15 Registered: Dec-04 | I think you understand what I am talking about. I'm not going to start throwing in German spellings of words which were adopted by the Old English/Anglo-Saxon speaking world hundreds of years ago. Seriously, can I just start spelling 'coffee' because it came from the German word, 'kaffee.'? Afterall, its not that big of a deal. Just let me ask you one question. If you wrote a paper concerning grammar/literature/language and used the spelling of 'grammer' throughout the entire paper, what would your teacher think? |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 76 Registered: Nov-04 | Although I'm not home schooled, my dad is one of my teachers. So I think he would understand. Besides that, in my A.P. English class we had a discussion about variation of spelling, specifically on the word center, which is spelled centre by the British. I think I'd be okay when it came to that. Also, color, vise, sulfur, program, pajamas, mold, story, specialty, mustache, honor, license, meter, gray, favorite, analog and aluminum are spelled colour, vice, sulphur, programme, pyjamas, mould, storey, speciality, moustache, honour, licence, metre, grey, favourite, analogue and aluminium in most other English-speaking countries besides the U.S. Those are just a few examples of variants of spelling. Your example goes along a totally different train of thought. If you will, this is a question of variants between British-English and American-English. Ironically Americans are considered to have the worst grammer, but that's another topic. Your example is not a question of variation, but a question of changing a word from English to German. Nice try, but that's a hell of a stretch. People don't b!tch about a British person referring to soccer as football, so I don't see good reason for you b!tching about the spelling of a word. Hell, it's one letter that's changing in the case of grammer. Unless you can come up with a retort to that, happy holidays and I hope you have a great New Year. Maybe your resolution should be to go back to school, pr!ck. And in your immensely intelligent words, "Before you dig yourself any deeper into the hole that you've dug, just think before you open your mouth. " |
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Bronze Member Username: SmhuosrktaysRochester, New York USA Post Number: 27 Registered: Sep-04 | Well, considering, I wouldn't use the word 'grammer' because of the fact that I am from the United States and that I've been taught the proper words to use, I wouldnt have to worry about that now would I? This is a forum, if you don't like the way people type, simply don't respond to their posts, just like changing the channel on TV. Uh oh, theres a problem, I said TV instead of television, you think my teacher would get for that? |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 77 Registered: Nov-04 | Exactly. The whole "You say tomato, I say tomato," doesn't work when typed, but that's the idea. The idea is being presented, whether or not I say grammer or grammar. The spelling of the word grammer has nothing to do with the arguement anyway, but I'd like to see what you have to say. I'd also like to point out that your speciality, not specialty, definately has nothing to do with using your brain. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 16 Registered: Dec-04 | Where do you come off? You're in the 10th grade. AP English? I want to a private classical-minded school for my entire high school career. Half my classes were related to reading/analyzing ancient literature and writing thesis style responses. Don't even pretend to have half the wealth of knowledge I have regarding the topic of language, history, and literature. The point at hand was the spelling of 'grammar.' Let's use your very own logic to deduct a conclusion. What did you do when I pointed out that your using of the word, 'firstly,' was incorrect? You went to webster.com and decided to rant and rave about the definition and how your conclusion was correct. Using your fuzzy logic, I'll do the same. I went to webster.com and entered: 'grammer'. What were the results? "The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search box to the right. Suggestions for grammer: 1. grammar 2. grimmer 3. groomer 4. grammes 5. gammer 6. grammars 7. grater 8. gamer 9. Gramme 10. grama 11. greener 12. Greater 13. grainer" Obviously, I can't argue reasonably with you on normal accounts. Instead, I will go by your own asinine point of view. Let me know when you hit a logical reasoning course. You could use it. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 6934 Registered: Dec-03 | I have a 4 year college degree in English and I've lived in the US, Korea, Japan, Okinawa, and several other countries, and I've never seen the word "grammar" spelled with an "e." For whatever that's worth, I figured I'd offer that bit of information. This pissing match is getting a bit tedious though. Why not just drop it and find something more interesting to argue about? On a side note, no degree in English is required to teach in highschool, but you'd need at least a masters if not a doctorate to teach in any college or university. The only thing required to teach any subject at K-12 level is a degree in education. Ponder that as you send your children off to school in the morning.  heh |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 80 Registered: Nov-04 | Some people need to know when to admit that they are wrong. That's another resolution you might think about. Another common variant is routeing. British use routeing, whereas Americans use routing. Using your "fuzzy logic," I went to webster.com and entered 'routeing.' What were the results? "The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search box to the right. Suggestions for routeing: 1. rutting 2. rooting 3. rotting 4. routing 5. retting 6. retying 7. rating 8. writing 9. rioting 10. righting" Fuzzy logic, huh? I'd like to see some of your ranting and raving talk you out of this one. Grammer is a variant, even though it is not used as much. So bite me. If you, being so supreme and all-knowing, can't argue with me on normal accounts, please do something about it. By all means, point out to me where my argument is faulty. And please tell me why you can't argue with me on normal accounts. I'd love to do so very much. So please, abandon your own asinine point of view, grow a pair, and let me know when YOU hit a logical reasoning course. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 18 Registered: Dec-04 | Your post above described exactly what I was talking about. Did my previous post completely miss you? Seriously? 1) You use webster.com to come to conclusion. 2) I reply (incorrectly on purpose) with fuzzy webster.com logic 3) You retort, again, using webster.com to defend your position. And please, for the record, get creative. You basically just use my rhetoric (same words and all) as your reply. Really, I think this just comes down to the fact that you misspelled, 'grammar.' You then felt obligated to defend your position by whatever means necessary. I can respect that, but just let it go. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShivvymanPost Number: 19 Registered: Dec-04 | In regards to what Glass said about the education system, I can say that I completely agree. That is one of the major factors as to why I was sent to a private school. Public school, for the most part, is a joke. The avg ACT score in my city, for public schools, was around a 21. The school I attended averaged a 27. I should note that 36 is a perfect score. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmhuosrktaysRochester, New York USA Post Number: 28 Registered: Sep-04 | Im not trying to push this anymore, but I think he responded to your message the way he did to somewhat mock you.(I really didn't think it worked) |
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Bronze Member Username: Djeter108IN USA Post Number: 83 Registered: Nov-04 | Okay I'll drop it, but my retort was meant to show that maybe webster.com isn't 100% right by showing that an accepted variant wasn't listed. If routeing wasn't listed, than it gives reason for why grammer wasn't. On the other hand, grammer wasn't a variant, but it was a misspelling, and you were right, I was just using all that as an attempt to cover for myself. It was fun while it lasted. And about education, it's true. My friend goes to public school. He is in the 'advanced' classes. He is doing the same math I did when I was in 7th grade. |
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