Directv spot beams

 

guppy
Unregistered guest
I was just wondering about the local US networks on Directv. Lets say that I am in Canada and had a Directv account through a friend in New York would I be able to get the local New York ABC, NBC and CBS channels are they broadcast on a spot beam or are they on a national beam because there is a rule that if you don't live near a major market you can get a NY and LA feed of networks. If that is true then the NY and LA networks have to be on a national beam, to reach anyone in any rural area in the United States.
 

LK
Unregistered guest
Your friend in NY does not live in a rural area and will get the major networks via rabbit ears ,cable,satellite whatever...so he will get whatever his locals are that are spotbeamed...U will not because ALL locals are spotbeamed!...

if U are calling the 380's LOCALS,they are NOT! (they were intended for truckers and RV's)...those are national brodcasts (not spotbeamed),that very few can receive and require a FCC waiver which is rarely granted..if he can get ABC on rabbit ears,then he cannot get the 380's or the waiver..

U will get whatever he can get EXCEPT for his locals or locals related like some LOCAL sports channels
 

CHA
Unregistered guest
Guppy, yes, it's true what LK is saying about the locals being on spotbeams. However, NYC is on the conus beam, as are L.A., Denver, and a few others. They are part of a "distant channels" deal offered by Dish. Direct TV may offer something similar. I get all of those channels (and more) via my Fortec Lifetime Ultra, and I live in a rural area.

By the way, LK, I'd like to thank you for all of your help! You've helped me to understand many aspects of this hobby. I don't know how you keep your patience with people who keep asking the same questions and seem to ignore the answers. You must be a teacher by nature!



 

guppy
Unregistered guest
I understand what you're talking about LK but why then are all but one of the transponders (32) giving me a signal strength of at least 80 or higher. The local channels must be transmitted from transponders that make up the 32 that are on DTV 101. Shouldn't some of the transponders be at levels that are closer to 0. CHA I also am familiar with the Fortec Lifetime Ultra and some transponders on the Dishnet 110 sat would be at 0 and the reason for this was that they were transponders that were on spotbeam providing local channels to the Western US which I could not watch because of the low signal reading.
 

LK
Unregistered guest
Many locals for DTV are not on the 101 bird..can be 110 or 119 also...thats why DTV have oval and dual and triple LNB phase 3 dishs..

The Phase III oval dish (FAQ)
All about the Phase 3 dish
(made for DTV, has 3 LNBs in same enclosure and built in multiswitch.)
YES, you CAN use this for your FTA setup to get 91 and 110 !

Advantages
1. You can add 2 LNBs and get 82 and 119 too on same dish.
2. Cheap or free from your DTV system.
3. Use only one wire and get 2 sats.
4. If u add 82 and 119, you'll use 3 ports on your diseq switch.. perfect to hook up an additonal bigger dish and a linear LNB and get birds like Intelsat 5 (T5) on your diseq empty port.

Connection
1. You need only 1 coax cable per receiver connected to the Phaze 3 dish, which is an advantage.
2. It doesnt matter which of the 4 ports you connect to. All 4 are the same in functionality. Your receiver will use the built in multiswitch to select one of the 3 sats. It does that via voltage change and 22khz tone signalling.

What this dish is for and how it was meant to work
1. This dish is for DirectTV. Was made to get the 101, 110 and 119 DTV sats.
2. Looking from behind the dish, the LNB are used like so:
.......left lnb = 119 sat
..middle lnb = 110 sat
.....right lnb = 101 sat
3. The multiswitch inside uses 22khz tone that is sent by your receiver to switch between 2 sats (just like any other 22khz switch). You'll have to set that up in your Pansat receiver.
4. 2 sats?? Yes! The multiswitch inside also serves as a combiner to combine signal from 110 and 119. So the 22khz will switch between the signal of 110 and 119 combined and the signal of 101

How the built in combiner works
1. The combiner takes TPs 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 28, 30 and 32 from the middle LNB (110) and all the rest of the 32 TPs of the left LNB (119). You cannot change what TPs are combined... Covering middle LNB with foil wont work, cutting traces on the pcb wont work.
2. This is OK for DTV because DTV only has 3 TP's on DTV's 110 (28, 30 and 32) and they are different from the TPs on DTV's 119. (a tp is a frequency band on which up to 14 channels are transmitted). So combining different frequencies on the same wire, works fine. But it will affect your FTA setup.

How the built in combiner affects your pansat setup
1. You can use the Phaze 3 dish to get the 91 (bev) and the 110 (dn) satellites.
2. For that you point the dish to 101 (middle lnb), and adjust the skew. Now the left LNB picks up 110 (looking from behind the dish) and the right LNB picks up 91.
3. The combiner will combine TPs 2,4,6,8,10,12 and 14 from the 101 DTV sat with the rest of the TPs of the 110 DN sat. This means you will not be able to get TPs 2,4,6,8,10,12 and 14 from the 110 sat. but read on to see what your're missing.

What channels will i be missing on my Pansat
1. You will be missing only some local channels. (ABC,CBS..etc..), which may or may not be local to you. Thats it !
2. To see what is missing you go to lyngsat and check to see whats on TP 2,4,6,8,10,12 and 14 on DN's 110 sat.
4. You will see that ALL but 2 of these TPs are of BEAM type... which means you wouldnt have been able to get them ANYWAYS, Unless you are in the area indicated for that particular beam.
5. The 2 conus (available nationwide) tps that you'll be missing are TP 12 and TP 14. Whats on it? Only locals from Lexington, Knoxville, Jackson and Denver.


What you should be pointing it to, to get 91 and 110
Pansat setup:
Assuming you will point this dish to 101 (middle LNB to 101), you will be able to get 91 and 110 on the 2 outside LNBs WITH proper SKEW, and thats what u want do to if you gonna use it with your Pansat. The middle LNB is useless for Pansat setups on Phase 3 dish as it will be pointed to DTV's 101 sat. Also covering this lnb with anything won't help to give u back those locals that you'll be missing.
To get the azimuth and elevation for your dish, calculate it for the 101 sat. For skew see below.

DTV setup
If you set the dish like above, it will not work for DTV. If you want it to work for DTV you point it to 110 (middle lnb gets 110) and the outer will get 101 and 119.
To get the azimuth and elevation for your dish, calculate it for the 110 sat. For skew see below. Or you can use your DTV receiver, enter your zip code and it will give you all settings.

U can't use the Phase 3 dish for DTV and Pansat at the same time because you're pointing to different sats.

How to calculate and use Skew:
Skew= vertical offset (twist) in degrees from the vertical (from the 90 degrees mark on your dish)
1. Go to Satellite Nut page
2. Enter your location info.
3. Calculate skew for the 2 outter satellites on your dish (for the pansat setup on Phaze3 that would be 91 and 119)
4. Add them toghether and divide by 2
5. U get the skew number. (Disregard the minus sign if its negative)

To use SKEW:
You must ensure that the top of the mast is perfectly plum. Best thing is to use an eye round level (home depot,tools section - $3) that u put right on top of the mast. You do that BEFORE you even put the dish on the mast.

If you are on the EAST coast, skew = counter-clockwise rotation in degrees from the 90 deg mark on your phaze 3 dish. Set your dish to 90 minus the skew number
If you are on the WEST coast, skew = clockwise rotation in degrees from the 90 deg mark on your phaze 3 dish. Set dish to 90 plus the skew number

Receiver setup
No diseq switch is needed, only one wire needs to be connected to the Phase 3
91: 22khz OFF, Diseq - OFF (or ON - doesnt matter)
110: 22khz ON, Diseq - OFF (or ON - doesnt matter)

Can i also get 119 on this dish?
Yes, if you have an additional DTV or DN (circular) LNB laying around, you can strap it to the LEFT of the 3 existing LNBs (looking from behind the dish). You will now have to use a DiseqC switch to switch between the wire from the Phaze 3 and the wire from the strapped LNB.
Receiver setup with the strapped on 119 LNB
Assuming u put the wire from the Phaze 3 in port #1 and the wire from the strapped LNB in port #2, your setup will be:
91: 22 khz OFF, Diseq #1
110: 22khz ON, Diseq #1
119: 22khz OFF (or ON - doesnt matter), Diseq #2

Can i also get 82 on this dish?
Yes, if you have an additional DTV or DN (circular) LNB laying around, you can strap it to the RIGHT of the 3 existing LNBs (looking from behind the dish). You will now have to use a DiseqC switch to switch between the wire from the Phaze 3 and the wire from the strapped LNB.
Receiver setup with the strapped on 82 LNB
Assuming u put the wire from the Phaze 3 in port #1 and the wire from the strapped LNB in port #3, your setup will be:
91: 22 khz OFF, Diseq #1
110: 22khz ON, Diseq #1
82: 22khz OFF (or ON - doesnt matter), Diseq #3
 

slickvguy
Unregistered guest
With all that information, you really still didnt' answer his question. The answer is: it depends on your location.

If you have a New York DTV account with locals (as it appears you do), if yu are located in canada within the spotbeam, you will indeed receive NY locals. In some locations, it's so close, that you'll only get SOME of the locals. Other locations, you'll get 'em all. Still other locations, you won't get any. Obviously, if you live in Calgary and your account is setup for NY locals, you won't get any of them. Duh. But if you're closer to Montreal, you will probably get some. Understand?

Best way to know for sure is to try it and see.
 

LK
Unregistered guest
slick...u aren't!..we are way beyond your simple explanation...your's is the obvious,but not what he is referring to...he was referring to the 380's which are NOT even considered LOCALS!
 

LK
Unregistered guest
slick...u aren't!..we are way beyond your simple explanation...your's is the obvious,but not what he is referring to...he was referring to the 380's which are NOT even considered LOCALS! and NOT spotbeamed like locals...so location closest to NY has nothing to do with the correct answer ..
 

slickvguy
Unregistered guest
1) Um, LK...you don't know who you're talking to. Ask around. You really might want to reconsider your assumptions. Trust me on that. ;)

2) According to the poster's original post, I answered his question. His account is in New York. Obviously, he isn't eligible for NATIONALS there. Thus, his account is setup for NY locals. Therefore, my advice is sound.
 

LK
Unregistered guest
I'm sorry, you are right...I'm just trying to show off how much of a fcuking idiot I am. I am sorry if I stepped on your toes. You see, I fought in Nam back in the 70's, and learned a few tricks back then...like how to properly suck on a guy's ballsack without causing him pain and shoot my flesh pistol for distance not accuracy...You are absolutly right slickvguy...accept my apologies please..ROTF
 

LK
Unregistered guest
slick.. U need to look at the spotbeam map...I think we are saying the same thing...but being in Canada does not mean he will get ANY true NY locals...I lived in Mass and got no NY locals...and Mass is much closer to NY (city) than Canada..it all depends upon the locals byte and zip on the card, along with the transponders within the spotbeam map and your location within that spotbeam..he might get Buffalo locals if the account owner is near Buffalo and other guy in canada lives nearby...I guess it all depends WHERE in NY and WHERE in Canada..but he was talking getting LA and NY channels (380's),so he meant
the national ,not spotbeamed locals, ABC,NBC,CBS,FOX..

original post..
would I be able to get the local New York ABC, NBC and CBS channels are they broadcast on a spot beam or are they on a national beam because there is a rule that if you don't live near a major market you can get a NY and LA feed of networks

BTW...the LK post above this is an imposter..
 

slickvguy
Unregistered guest
LK,

I am in Canada. I can get a few different locals from my location. As I said in my post, it depends on the LOCATIONS! It might surprise you to know (vis-a-vis your Mass. example) that in a city such as Montreal you can get SOME of the New York locals, ALL of the Washington, D.C. locals, some of the Baltimore locals, and all of the recently added Plattsburgh/Burlington locals (though not on the 101).

And btw, I am very aware of the spotbeam maps, but they are somewhat inaccurate. As you said, you lived in Mass yet couldn't get NY locals. heheh. What those spotbeam maps show is NOT very accurate. At least not in MY experience. Good for a general idea of the spotbeam locations, but every km counts!

Next...I understand that you may not know who I am, but without tooting my own horn too much, let's just say you're dealing with one of the most expereinced dave/chuck/bev testers you will ever find. I keep a low profile usually, and post mainly on private sites. My public posts are for "play" only. I usually get banned sooner or alter from the newbie sites, because I tend to piss off the mods, because 99% of the time I know so much mor ethan they do. They don't like that. heh. Most of them can't even code! Anyways...let's leave it at that. ;)

As for the local market byte, zipcode, guidebyte...that is a different (but related) issue. I am well aware of EXACTLY how the locals work with DTV (which differs from the Dishnet scheme). But as I told the poster, without knowing his exact location, it's impossible to say. Heck - there's one easy way to find out! Why is the guy asking instead of just setting up and seeing for himself?

<<i>>

Exactly. Location of the sub's SERVICE address, and location of the dish in Canada, is the key.

<<but he was talking getting LA and NY channels (380's),so he meant
the national ,not spotbeamed locals, ABC,NBC,CBS,FOX..
>>

While he mentioned NATIONALS (CONUS), the main thrust of his post was about which locals he will get - if any. The sub is in NY, so the odds are good that the sub will receive locals and will NOT qualify for nationals. Also, from what I understand, it is very difficult to get authorization for NATIONALS these days. I remember seeing a message on dtv's website just a few days ago with a message about new NATIONAL authorizations being put on hold. I think it has to do with US legislation. (FCC?).

The bottom line is that the poster needs to provide more information in order for us to give him an accurate and complete answer. However, the odds are that the sub does get locals, and that our Canadian friend will not be able to receive them.

What he *SHOULD* be asking is the following: "If I cannot receive NY locals here at my Canadian location, how can I get them?". ;) lol.

<<btw...the>>

Yes, I realize that. Thanks. What a jerk he is!
I don't visit this forum often at all, but I have it bookmarked just in case something pertinent pops up. I haven't read many threads here (most are for newbies), though I am certainly familiar with your posts.

Keep up the good work! I will pop in from time to time, and spread a little joy where, when, and if I can. :D

From what I understand this is not a testing forum though - is that correct? So I will "keep it clean". ;)
 

LK
Unregistered guest
slick..this is DEFINITELY NOT a testing forum...no files,no coders,no real testers here...-this is a site for the newest of newbies...most newbies know more than most people here...this is a lazy effortless group of just free TVers..actually I don't know why I even come here...originally to stop a feud between members here and the members at one of the sites I admin/mod at...but then I stayed to help the newbies,but as I said they don't want help,they want spoon fed..my time is drawing near to move on and spend more time doing other things..I have been around DSS quite awhile,and its time to let BL and his crew or no1b4 do the testing..
 

guppy
Unregistered guest
Here let me clarify I am just east of Toronto and the reason I posted the question was to find out if it was worth it to call my friend and have him activate the account. If I can't get the locals to watch major sporting events and television shows, then I atleast want to know what I am getting in to. You are right slickvguy about being able to get locals from some US markets in Canada because some of the spotbeam transponders do overlap in to southern Ontario and Quebec. The NYC locals are on tp 20 of DTV 101 and I can check on my reciever the signal strength to be about 80.
 

Anonymous
 
I NEED HEPL, I GET A DISCH NET. I need somebody that me esplique as it works and like putting the keys so that disch is seen
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