I know it is all very personal, and I know you have to figure out by listening. But here's the dilemma: I can either go for a new PM7001, which rocks according to some reviews, or buy a 2nd hand pre/power amp combo from Rotel, at the same price, 500 euro. Can anybody give me some advice? Obviously I cannot try the Rotel, since I do not buy it from a store.
Well, I am currently using German made I.Q., 120-180 watt 3-way system. But as I am slowly upgrading I am currently thinking about the KEFIQ9, which I think ranges from 140-200 Watt. Alternatively, I can buy a 2nd hand Marantz PM16, for about 600 euro.
I don't know your speakers, but regardless of the reviewers, my experience has been that the Rotels are much better than the Marantz. I have only heard the marantz 7200, but I found it rather dull and uninvolving. Not a great soundstage, IMO. However, I think the Rotel is pretty good. Have you considered a new Rotel RA1070 integrated amp? I know they can drive the KEFs, so I suspect they can drive your current speakers w/o difficulty.
Thanks for the reply, Funny enough that was exactly my impression when I bought my Pioneer amp (a-449) which was rated very good in all adiophile magazines. When I compared it with a rather lighweight Rotel integrated amp I was amazed by the differences, especially the dynamics of the sound. Nevertheless, the PM7001 gets very good ratings, and can only be beaten by amps twice that price.
Good ratings are relative. When i first got into hifi 35 years ago, I saw a lot of decent low end stuff getting a good rating, only to end up being very disapointed. That is because they are often comparing it to something else in the same price range; hence your experience with the Pioneer. The is always relative value and absolute value, and the audio press tends to speak in terms of relative value. It is only the occasional low priced unit that can seriously compete on the basis of absolute value (i.e., the NAD C320bee).
Clearly, you are in Europe, for one reason is that we cannot get the PM7001 here in the US. We do get the PM7200, which as I have said sounds dull and lifeless. Yet, the PM7200 gets very good reviews in the European audio press, which makes me think that there is a significant difference in the sound produced by the European version as opposed the the North American version I have heard. Given the fact that the biggest difference is that the european model runs off 220v vs our 110v, and given that Eurpoeans are far more likely to buy an integrated amp (not a big market here in the US) which is to say the integrated market in Europe is more competitive,, I think the European version is simply a better unit because of a higher quality power supply. Thus, the PM7001 should probably be a pretty good unit, too. If you get it, please come back and post your impressions.
Hawk, Thanks, yes I am a resident of the Netherlands. I was not aware of the fact that pre/power amps were more popular in the US. I do agree with you that ratings are a relative measure, you can't compare a Toyota with a BMW, still with Toyota's you get good value for your money. Having said this, this is the same in high end HIFI, where with top brands you also pay for the image. Nevertheless, I am planning to start with a very extensive listening session, trying different amps and speakers. I will post my findings soon. Best regards.
Peter, perhaps you can listen to some Rotel equipment on your rounds? As you noted, you thought some comments would be varnished with personal preferences, so there is mine. I have an affinity for the Rotel's, cdp's in particular, but I run a 5 yr old rb985 amp that is absolutely the best amp I have ever owned. This thing will drive any speaker, anywhere, anytime. They can be had for a good price on the open market as well.
Dear Nuck, Thanks for the advice, as I mentioned, the first time I came across a Rotel amp was 15 years ago, and it blew me away. At that time I couldn't spent the money, however. But there some disturbing messages on the internet about bad quality and humming amps. Certainly something to be scred of when buying 2nd hand. Any comments on reliability?
I have never had any problems, but I have a power amp and little to go wrong there. I did have a humming channel and found a POS in the unit, but annual cleaning is part of the routine here now. I see some issues posted, but some are from mis-application, some from people who do not know better than to expect one Rotel to change their lives, and others who should see a doctor. I do not cee any issues, as compared to Nad receivers, which seem a bit fawlty. The Nad Integrateds and seperates, however, seem to carry on the name quite well.
I can wholeheartedly recommend the 985 that I have, hands down. My speakers are not very smooth in response(Psb stratus silver), and the amplifier has never, ever once complained. This amplifier will play anything. And with...uhh...sufficient power. If you seek a good 5 channel amplifier, Peter, I would offer this unit as an example(dunno which model it equals there).
OK, here's the coverage of my experience today. Listened to Marantz PM7001, Rotel RA-02, Cambridge Audio 640 A v2. Speakers, KEF IQ7 and 9, Chario 2000 and Phonar ethos. The Rotel and Marantz were quite equal, but I would give the benefit of the doubt to Marantz. Surprisingly, I prefered the IQ7 over the IQ9, the latter I experienced as flat, except the lower tones were better. Then I listened to the Phonar (German brand) and Chario (Italian). The Chario was very convincing, but the Phonar was the winner, that one goes for $1800, -/pair. The whole experience left me confused. I did find the amplifier of my choice ( I think) but the speakers, that it is difficult. I guess that's a topic for another forum.
The Rotel RA 02 you listened to puts out around 55 wpc (8 ohms) vs. the 100 wpc or so of the PM 7001, so power wise not really the best comparison.
I had a PM 7200 integrated, great mids and highs, dynamics are poor, music audibly runs "out of steam" during sustained peaks and bass control was not really that good either. The Rotel seperates I now use, are better where the Marantz is weak, but cannot match the PM 7200 in natural, "warm" midrange reproduction, instead sounding a bit lean and analytical by comparison.
You'll have to decide which offers the best match with your speakers. Sorry if you have already answered this, but did you use your own speakers during the listening test?
Please anybody out there, give me some help. I DID by the Marantz PM7001, in black (ugly like hell with the gold plated knobs!) but I went for my own ears and what I read in the recent reviews. However, every time I entered a hifi shop here in the Netherlands they tried to sell me a NAD C352 or Rotel RA-02. The latter realy doesn't get good reviews. The C-352 does. I do like deep sound, but I hate a bass overkill and I do like highs, but I hate it when it's too much present. However, I do like dynamic sound, meaning that with fast drums or bass,or even trumpet like with Miles Davis, you can feel it. With the Marantz and my Chario's Syntar200T it almost seems to be there, but the punch I do not know. I can still return my Marantz, but I am terribly afraid after reading several user forums that I will terribly regret it. Another, less important argument, I do like the looks of the NAD, it's simply beautifully simple!
Can anybody help me a bit in my worries. Marantz the good choice, get used to its ugliness and paint the gold? Go for the NAD, it will never disapoint you, it's worth the buck?
Wow man, I didn't think it would be this hard to assemble my budget HI-FI set. What if I ever go for more High-End speakers, will the Marantz still do.
Hi Peter, ur delemma is same as mine so i can easily understand it. I'll tell u of my experience....I have auditioned Marantz 7200 on Boston Acoustics VR2 and VR3 reference series,Klipsch top reference series floorstanders, Morduant Short floorstanders and Defenitive technology floorstanders. Its true that marantz misses the zing in the music, but if u see at this budget, the quality of the equipment is damn good. The sound i would more over say is sophisticated and doesnot tire ur ears which i feel is important because u wud atleast spend 2-3 hrs everyday on it. It has the following advantages - It is absolute audiophile - meaning u wud not like to see ur speakers craking or jarring at 3'oclock positions of the volume knob when partying with friends! Marantz is clean and drives speakers with 200wpc or more easily upto 3'oclock without jarring. After that watever u get is because u r trying to run a speaker that requires double the power! so its great. Second the class A is for low volume listening pleasures - upto 12 oclock position on a 200wpc speaker. Since u wont be partying everyday or night this option will give the quality sound experience. Bass and treble are finally defined. The important thing is u need to match them with good european speakers because its a litle harsh with american brands like boston or klipsch.Source is also extremely important. I have seen its level of performance changing with different sources. Its actually a value for money. This is one amp which can be used for other purposes easily when u want to do an upgrade. If u r strained on ur budget now go for marantz and enjoy it till the next good upgrade. The channel seperation is very good. Its true the vocals are much better in this as compared to the overall detailing, but give it some time, let it heat up and see the speed of this amp and its detailing. U'll start loving it. Its natural. None of the amps that i have come across at this price has such audiophile sound and built quality!
Sorry Sandeep, Yes I tried the Marantz and I bought it finally. I had listened to the NAD C352 and the other amps I mentioned above. The NAD is OK, but I couldn't quite find what had been written about it. I searched the whole internet to look for comparisons between the PM7001 or PM7200 and NAD C352. Especially Hifi Choice gave the benefit of the doubt to the Marantz, and so did some others. The score in the end was 1:1. Since I thought that there's many more improvements I could make, and that with the amps in this price class I had reached my best, I decided to keep the Marantz, enjoy the music, and don;t bother about the details anymore. At a certain stage, especially when you read some of the comments, you get the idea that people are more into getting a certain perfection rather than enjoying the music. I will invest a bit more in my CD-player, my cables and play with the position of the speakers. If in some years from now I am in for something new I will probaly again go for one step higher in HiFi. For the moment I close my eyes and enjoy my new Marantz PM7001 and the 2nd hand bought Chario Syntar200T's. Which are totally different than my old speakers, more neutral, more defined in the mids and less boom from the bass. Having checked them out with my old amp (Pioneer A-449) the Marantz was a huge improvement. Look forward to other reviews of the PM7001, as the press was realy lyrical about it.
Thanks Nuck, I believed when I started my quest for some new stuff to revive my listening hobby, that I had left the indecisiveness behind me. In my early days I was haunted by the lack of money and also I guess buy some inexperience on "listening" and HiFi. However, it turned out to be much more difficult than imagined still, not in the least caused by all the different types of advice you get, which can be as colored as the sound of some speakers an amps. Like anything in real life, when you come to a certain stage there's no real good or bad, just the experience. I know that I am still a long way from the perfect listening experience. However, I also realize there's more to life than breaking down the house, sending away the children and taking a strangling mortgage for my HiFi. Nevertheless, all the help I received from people who do care to write about their experiences was great. Since some months I love to read the reviews, the HiFi magazines and all the different views on HiFi gear. I'll keep everyone posted on my continued quest. An audio enthusiast is reborn
Hehe...right said Peter. keep enjoying your 7001..i have audtioned it and its really good. I would rather say it is slightly more detailed, soft & better as compared to 7200. I am buying the 7200 because it has more power and i need to drive some power hungry guys on it.
Truly said there is a life outta this hifi thingy...but an audio enthusiast will always whine at new and upcoming models...how about a tube for ur nxt upgrade?