Phil* your review of the V1


Hey man,

Finally got around to slogging through that interminable thread over on

Man, that Doug guy is relentless...way more over the top than either of us in our exchange here of the same topic.

Anyway, I thought your review (and self-deprication) was great. Specifically, I think your point about the mid-range really resonated with me as a former Denon owner (granted a 5 year old AVR1400). I could never really put my finger on exactly what I didn't like about that recievers sound (not that you imply that you don't like the Denon's mids, just that the Yam is fuller in those frequencies). It was the mids.

To my ears, even on a releatively low-priced receiver, the Denon had no problems at all with the high end or the bass. The treble was open and present, and offered quite fine detail. Likewise, the bass really did cook, but remained warm and balanced. It was tight and honestly very well voiced.

BUT...It wasn't until I was reading your review that I realized the mids were what bothered me with the AVR1400. In that most sensitive and vital frequncy Q, I was just left standing n&ked on your wedding nite, and you can't find your wife (just an example...didn't actually happen to me ;-)

I agree with you that the mids in the V1 are likely what is partly responsible for your new fondness. Though I, like some others, are waiting to see what fate you choose...the Denon for the same deal $920, or the V1.

Since I won't b&stardize my screen name for, here are some comments to that crazy HK/3803 post based on some of what I read:

Logic 7 - whatever. For TV, I use DTS Neo Cinema which I think is the best format for TV (compared with PL2 and L7...though the race is still on between it and PL2). I think L7 is heavily center speaker dependent and I feel like they sacrificed dynamics to extend spaciousness. While it WAS a factor in my purchase initially (though a small one) I rarely use it now. To make the best use of it, you have to adjust LFE levels to compensate.

HK QC - I really don't doubt that HK some real issues with last years' line, x20 and 8000. I think had I been in the market last year, I likely would have passed on them after some cursory research. Of course, as you know, I am tickled with my 525: it's dead quiet while fully cranked with no source, it's never so much as hiccup'd and, as I've mentioned the sound and feature set was just right FOR ME.

As I read through that thread, those words kept coming back to me, "the sound and feature set was just right for me." It seems that you grasp that concept, a few others do to, but there are just so many cats out there looking to be king-o-the-audioPile (if *I* bought it, it must be the best).

I mean three weeks ago we were at each others throats (both smart and basically able to buy what we want) then I start considering the 3803, begin to endorse it (after some research) and you up and buy a Yammie. Why aren't more folks inclined to open-mindedness (just had to duck some lightning as I recalled some of our barbs from not so long ago :-).

And hey, what's with the diagnoses in the forums? What a riot! I have recently been marveling at medical science since my first baby (boy)was c-sectioned out three months ago. I watched the whole damn thing (that's the uterus...whooa?!) and it was freakin AMAZING. I blurted out that my little guy looked like a cornish game hen (covered in vernix) and our OB started was too cool!

You guys are mechanics on the coolest gear going!

Hey big fat congrats on the Yam and keep the reviews coming.



Phil Krewr
Hey H1p,

yeah, that Doug is amaizing, he just referenced me again yesterday, but I chose to ingnor him. Just a few thoughts about some of the thread. I think he sees his receiver as an extention of his pen1s, lol.

1. HK and HCC. First, I credit HK with being honest about their power rating. However, the HCC thing has to be a gimic. First watts don't flow down a wire current does. That has always been true. But all you have to do is remember Ohm's law to realize its a gimic.



When you remember this you realize that you can't increase the power without increasing current and if you have more watts then you have more current. Now the industry has traditionally used watts. The main reason is that you have a way to somewhat average watts and that is the RMS formula. I don't remember any way to average the current. Saying that if you are measuring the current than you are measureing peak wattage. But the bottom line is that by Ohm's law any receiver will put out the same current for the same wattage and load (speaker).

2. Logic 7. Yeah thats what I remember about it. It funny that I like Neo6 better that DPLII myself despite what the critics say. You just have to listen to what you like.

3. Yes, I do think that HK quality control has steadily improved and I have not heard any negative issues with the AVR-525.

Compairing the V1 to the 3803. Well I think that sonicwise the V1 has it all over the 3803. The mids are probably the most apparent but the soundstage, imaging and level of detail are better. It is also better in the other tonal ranges and in aspects that I can't really describe. But frankly, its really unfair to the 3803 to compare the two sonically. The V1 is a flagship receiver and had a MSRP of $3200 at one time. That's more than 2.5 time the MSRP of the 3803. It would be fairer to compare a 4800 or a 4802 sonically. Having said that if you look at a later post I said I prefered the sound of the 3803 to the RX-V3300, which has a MSRP of $300 more than the 3803.

I'm not really looking at this as a comparison between Yamaha and Denon but more as an experiment in whether its better to buy a discontinued (and discounted) higher level receiver and forgoing the new bells and whistles.

Yeah, I'm glad we got through the rough time we had. I do regret some of the things I said. It did help me as you said to see that its what is right for the person.

I'm not sure what you're referring to about the diagnoses in the forums and yes we do get to play with some great toys. I was involved with a couple of C-sections as a med student and can relate to your experience although not as intimately involved.

Have a great one,



Exactly right about Ohm's law, it's like trying to put a marketing spin on the 2nd law of thermodynamics or arguing that some planets defy Kepler's laws of planetary orbits, "Well here on Venus we don't use elliptical orbits."...huh! No fighting gravity man!

As for your hypothesis that recently discontinued top-line gear may present a better value than today's mid-range latest and greatest...I honestly could not agree with you more. I think if I didn't have a three-month-old at home and had more time to really shop and shlep gear back and forth to stores to demo the heck out of things I would have done far more investigation down the road that you travelled. Thanks for the vicarious thrill.

Hmmm. Would I rather have a 5 year old BMW 5-series or a new Chevy do the math. Nothing agaist Chevy, but it's a fair analogy. And with audio, quality never goes out of style.

I think when the dust settles with the kiddo (and we finish renovating a second house...ugh!) I'll probably put together a B&K or Parasound 2-channel system off of ebay. I cannot believe how cheap some of that gear can be had given the orginal's crazy. But alas, this HT hobby can eat your wallet alive.

Ah, as to your diagnosis, I was referring to the guy who mentioned he broke his hand in a motorcycle accident (his sig is, "still typing with a broke hand"). You were asking him where the break was in his thumb, but that you'd need to see his X-rays.

As they say in the Caribbean, "ress-pect to ya."

Talk soon,

*damn, I also didn't realize that you picked up the V1 for 1/3rd the original price...Niiiice!

Phil Krewer

Yeah it kind of reminds me of Shell with Techron. I remember when I was in highschool thay had another fancy additive. As it turned out all gassoline had the additive and it was required by the government.

Congradulations on your new little one, I have a grandson who is 8 months now. I can't believe I'm only 46 and have a grandson. My problem is that I have too much time on my hands. This is the 9th reciever I've had in my house in the last 6 months.

Its funny that you mentioned old BMW's. I had an old 325 that I gave to my daughter and just bought a 98 Z3. Got a great deal, mint condition, 35,000 miles and 40,000 on the warranty.

The two channel amp you're talking about sounds very nice. It would be great for listening to music.

The guys hand fracture was just a matter of curiousity considering that I'm in Orthopaedics.



Hahah...Gramps it is, comgrats!

Another bimmer owner... my '95 525i is getting a valva cover gasket this morning. That Z3 must be a blast!

More in common than we thought!

Good weekend,


Phil Krewer
Yeah, I love the Z3 and having great fun with it. Glad to see another bimmmer lover. They last forever. The old 325 I gave to my daughter is an 88 with about 170K on it and I've had to replace the master cylinder, get the AC fixed and just had the ball joints replaced. It still has plenty of go.

A 525, my aren't we styling. Great car. I wouldn't trade that except for another bimmer.

BTW, I'm looking for a very inexpensive speaker set for my daughter. Something in the 300-400 range. It doen't need to have a sub yet, but would be a plus. You know a lot more about this than I do. So if you have any suggestions on what to look at let me know. She has a 5540 which I bought her a few months ago.

Take care,

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