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Why is it you guys?

 

Anonymous
 
hey, i wanted to know why is it you guys hate bose? ive did some research on this site and didnt really come up with an answer. i went to Best Buy this weekend and they had this demo model and so i was playing with it. sounded really clear and the 2 fronts sounded like whole 5.1 so why is it you guys hate bose?
 

PLAN B
Unregistered guest
For me, it's mostly about their price and not their product. But if you like overpaying for a product then more power to ya.

My father bought one of the Lifestyle systems (probably cause he is a consumer reports junkie) and his system doesn't even come close to comparing to mine, and his cost quite a bit more than what I spent.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Stealth_c

Dublin, CA USA

Post Number: 26
Registered: Jan-05
They are overpriced for the goods delivered. Compare a Bose cube system with a cube system from Cambridge Soundworks sometime. You will note similar if not better build quality from Cambridge, similar if not better sound (to my ears in any event), and that the Cambridge system has a price tag of 500 bucks.

Also, in terms of high fidelity, Bose doesn't go for accuracy, but for a more pleasing sound. There are gaps in the frequency range as measured by Sound and Vision. While the spots that they leave off are typically in the realm where humans cant hear as well (13kHz-20kHz), there are a few in the spectrum we can hear quite well (200Hz-280Hz). To make up for these gaps, they compensate in the ranges we can hear the best which creates a sound that is pleasing to many. A system from Cambridge that costs 500 bucks doesnt have these major gaps, and well, costs 500 bucks as compared with the 1000+ you would pay for Bose.
 

gavincumm
Unregistered guest
Many of us (such as myself) just don't like the sound that Bose produces. There is a common saying in the audiophile world that goes like this:

If it has no highs, and no lows, yet it sounds like its comming through your nose, guess what...ITS BOSE!!!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Varney

BirminghamEngland, UK

Post Number: 291
Registered: Sep-04
Well, I've only ever seen BOSE connected up in pubs and joints and shops that play horribly bass-heavy, distorted Reggae.

There is much to be said about BOSE's philosophy on sound reproduction. I've heard it said that they work around the principle that all sound we hear is reflected and somehow try to replicate this in the design. This is of course, highly contestable, for the reason that whatever the speaker you are listening to, most of the sound you hear is reflected by the environment.

V
 

Silver Member
Username: Varney

BirminghamEngland, UK

Post Number: 292
Registered: Sep-04
It might be that where background music is required in a tannoy setup across many rooms, where low levels or just the 'prescence' of music is needed without having a dynamic sound which demands your attention, such as in shops or restaraunts. If you aim is to listen to music, then buy any good speaker, if you wish only to hear muzak, then buy BOSE.

V
 

Silver Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 290
Registered: Oct-04
"Nothing sounds like Bose"

This is their marketing line, and it does sum it up quite nicely. First Bose's philosophy is that 90% of what you hear in a concert setting is reflected sound, so they try to reproduce that it their sound. Also the above is true that they emphasize certain frequencies and leave others out, the frequencies left are the most pleasing to the human ear. You are not hearing the original work, you are hearing Bose's conversion of it. I've read you cannot hear any cymbals on Bose speakers, because the speakers just don't DO those frequencies. Since Hi-Fi is structured around reproducing the sound as closely to what was originally recorded, it's surprising Bose remains the lemming's choice for the best speakers out there.

Then there's build quality - read this -

www.intellexual.net/bose.html

 

Silver Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 291
Registered: Oct-04
"Nothing sounds like Bose"

This is their marketing line, and it does sum it up quite nicely. First Bose's philosophy is that 90% of what you hear in a concert setting is reflected sound, so they try to reproduce that it their sound. Also the above is true that they emphasize certain frequencies and leave others out, the frequencies used are the most pleasing to the human ear. You are not hearing the original work, you are hearing Bose's conversion of it. I've read you cannot hear any cymbals on Bose speakers, because the speakers just don't DO those frequencies. Since Hi-Fi is structured around reproducing the sound as closely to what was originally recorded, it's surprising Bose remains the lemming's choice for the best speakers out there.

Then there's build quality - read this -

www.intellexual.net/bose.html

 

jimvm
Unregistered guest
I don't trust an audio company that refuses to publish their specifications.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rkvfire

Vancouver, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 179
Registered: Aug-04
ive never liked bose, and the demo did sound cool that 5.1 from 2 speakers. it was too ear peircing for my ears. thanx guys for responding to what i wanted to know!
 

Shahrukh
Unregistered guest
Everything said above is true. But, the reason I detest BOSE is their pricing. I think they're cheating the consumer. Their product is JUST NOT WORTH what they say it's worth. It's ok for home cinema. But at that price I want something "fuller"!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Varney

BirminghamEngland, UK

Post Number: 303
Registered: Sep-04
I don't trust a speaker manufacturer that refuses to allow cymbals.

Now that's just censorship and therefore stupid.

Kano - is that really true?

V
 

Silver Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 293
Registered: Oct-04
I haven't testing it myself. I read it in someone's review after doing an A-B with some quality bookshelfs.
 

Silver Member
Username: Varney

BirminghamEngland, UK

Post Number: 304
Registered: Sep-04
My god....

I never really thought I could get so much enjoyment from reading about something I'll never own!

:-)

V
 

New member
Username: Dion

Post Number: 2
Registered: Feb-05
The Acoustimass Series using tiny drivers for the mains and small woofer for "sub". The small driver cannot get lower than 200Hz so how high is "sub" crossing in at? Anything above 100Hz is going to be localized. For $1200 I think I can do better. Other Bose speakers rely heavily on equalization and psychoacoustics. I think I prefer "real" sound.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ca_convert

CardiffUK

Post Number: 87
Registered: Jan-05
Anyone who can come up with the wave CD clock radio andc claim it to be a scientific breakthrough in hi fi sounds, AND HAVE THE GALL TO ASK FOR £300!!

Sorry, that's insulting most people's intelligence to the point where the only conclusion is that the company is full of idiots pushing. As Varney says, in the UK Bose is synonymous with cheap nasty sounding pub sound "systems" and overpriced car audio (which it aint much good at either).
 

Bronze Member
Username: Stealth_c

Dublin, CA USA

Post Number: 30
Registered: Jan-05
It is interesting how successful they are here in the US. On a different note, Bose is said to have developed a revolutionary new suspension system that would render the air-suspensions of Mercedes/Lexus, and the state of the art magnetic suspensions used by Cadillac obsolete. Would be interesting to see Bose expand into a new market.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 294
Registered: Oct-04
Revolutionary suspension system that works on exactly 90% of corners...

I kid, I kid.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Stealth_c

Dublin, CA USA

Post Number: 31
Registered: Jan-05
Motor Trend went into it in their January edition I believe it was. Sounds interesting at least, but they say it will be expensive (5-7 grand premium over the standard stuff).
 

Silver Member
Username: Rkvfire

Vancouver, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 181
Registered: Aug-04
I heard that bose also bought out Alpine.
 

Silver Member
Username: Varney

BirminghamEngland, UK

Post Number: 312
Registered: Sep-04
" Bose is said to have developed a revolutionary new suspension system that would render the air-suspensions of Mercedes/Lexus, and the state of the art magnetic suspensions used by Cadillac obsolete"

Bose also won a contract over a more genuine acoustics company for the design and building of a noise cancellation system in modern jet fighter aircraft for the U.S. Airforce.

The unit was ineffective and very insubstantially made, costing the American tax-payer in labour costs to eventually rip them out of all planes and find another company.

Apparently, the US Airforce's reason for commissioning BOSE displayed as much unquestioning stupidity as the average lazy consumer does:
They simply happened to be better known than their competitors.

V
 

Silver Member
Username: Varney

BirminghamEngland, UK

Post Number: 313
Registered: Sep-04
Perhaps someone ought to suggest to the chairman of BOSE they go into construction....

They have proven they are very good at digging deep holes (at least for themselves).

Perhaps gravedigging might be a good trade to switch to in that case.

:-)

V
 

Gold Member
Username: Project6

Post Number: 2676
Registered: Dec-03
Varney,
Where did you get the information about BOSE and the US Air Force?
How did you know that it was ineffective and insubstantially made?
How did you know the USAF commissioned Bose? Have you any idea how the USAF does business?
 

Silver Member
Username: Touche6784

Post Number: 125
Registered: Nov-04
i agree with berny. ive seen that story on many different websites but have never really seen a reference or a source. i wouldnt be too surprised that bose screwed up, but i've always been curious about the truth of the story.
 

Silver Member
Username: Varney

BirminghamEngland, UK

Post Number: 316
Registered: Sep-04
Berny,

Perhaps I should have said there is an article which states: "..........."

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

Posted earlier by Kano; if you care to read it.

----
"How did you know the USAF commissioned Bose? Have you any idea how the USAF does business?"
----

How do you know BOSE are not a manufacturer of high qaulity speakers?

How do you know all negative comments pertaining to BOSE are not made up to discredit them?

Do you, Berny, have any idea how the USAF conducts it's business?

V
 

Silver Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 298
Registered: Oct-04
All is Rich Wang's non-professional opinion -

"It is estimated that Bose has spent more dollars on advertising last year than ALL other high-end companies COMBINED. Does it have an effect? Sadly, yes. A few years back, the United States Air Force signed Bose onto a multi-million-dollar contract to design noise cancellation headsets for Air Force flight crews. Bose won the contract over two other companies simply because of their "more established name" (brand recognition). The concept of a noise cancellation headset is to actively monitor the noise frequencies emitted from a jet engine and the turbulent wind, and reproduce the exact signal 180 degrees out of phase, thus theoretically canceling it out completely. Many reputable manufacturers have successful done so as well. Bose produced a model that cost approximately $1000 per unit, which failed to cancel out a significant amount of noise. The company used the contract as an opportunity to unload obsolete parts from years back. Bose pawned off thousands of outdated interface connectors for which there were no longer commercially available mating jacks, and incorporated them into the headsets. The Air Force, proud as it was, didn't scrap the project, but instead spent countless millions more replacing the consoles in a number of aircraft to make them compatible with the said headsets. In the end though, the Air Force did terminate the contract when test crews found that the headsets were ineffective and non-durable. This whole mess was created over a brand name's alleged reputation and prestige. Bose is now selling a downgraded version of these headsets to commercial airlines and to the consumer public. They now work to a minor degree, but are not surprisingly still easily outperformed by their competitors. These consumer market headsets are also very, very poorly crafted. I browse many online audio forums and have heard stories about these very expensive headsets falling apart prematurely.

Few magazines are now willing to give honest reviews of Bose products due to a Consumer Reports review a few years back that gave the AM-15 embarrassingly bad ratings (score of 62 out of 100). Consumer Reports allegedly used a double-blind comparison test, which is in fact the ideal way to compare speakers. That particular review ended up in a lawsuit over "unscientific testing methods". Thankfully, Bose lost that lawsuit, but since then, Consumer Reports and various other magazines give neutral-to-rave reviews that tip-toe around the actual sound quality and focus more on ergonomics and style. More prestigious publications like Fi and What HiFi? ignore Bose products completely."

 

Gold Member
Username: Project6

Post Number: 2681
Registered: Dec-03
Varney,
I did not ask about the quality of their speakers

I was questioning your statement. You are writing as if you know these things for a fact.

You stated these words as if they are fact:
"Bose also won a contract over a more genuine acoustics company for the design and building of a noise cancellation system in modern jet fighter aircraft for the U.S. Airforce. "

I just wanted to know how you knew.

You also stated:
"Bose also won a contract over a more genuine acoustics company for the design and building of a noise cancellation system in modern jet fighter aircraft for the U.S. Airforce. "

Where did this information come from?

There really is no need to get mad. I'm just asking you a few questions, because you seem to want to sound like an authority on USAF contracts.

I wanted to know if you knew how the USAF conducts business because of this statement:
"Apparently, the US Airforce's reason for commissioning BOSE displayed as much unquestioning stupidity as the average lazy consumer does:
They simply happened to be better known than their competitors"

Now, turning it around and asking me if I knew how they conducted business, is not really an answer. I asked you because you seem to really know how.

Here is an article about the bose noise cancellation system. It talks about the headphones and not systems that needs to be ripped "out of all planes and find another company"...like you said.

I was going to quote them, but I don't want to sound like I am an authority on these things.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123005620

http://www.militaryaudiology.org/newsletter03/dod-car.html

 

Silver Member
Username: Timn8ter

Seattle, WA USA

Post Number: 132
Registered: Dec-03
I'm convinced that there are better products for the money. This is easy to confirm in a correctly practiced audition, however, if someone is convinced the Bose sound is the best then that is their personal preference. I would like to be definite about one thing. The notion that a driver larger than 1" is not capable of adequately reproducing high frequencies is absolutely incorrect. The Tangband W3-871S is the perfect example. This is a 3" driver that is nearly perfect to 20K. Obviously this is not the driver that Bose uses but I felt it important to dispell that particular misconception. A novice woodworker could make 5 cubes for the W3-871S and a small subwoofer for about $500 and get performance far beyond the Acoustimass system. Of course, it wouldn't be nearly as pretty which seems to be the main appeal.
 

Silver Member
Username: Varney

BirminghamEngland, UK

Post Number: 319
Registered: Sep-04
Berny,

"You stated these words as if they are fact:
(V- "Bose also won a contract over a more genuine acoustics company for the design and building of a noise cancellation system in modern jet fighter aircraft for the U.S. Airforce. ") "

....And I corrected myself by saying:

"("Perhaps I should have said there is an article which states: "..........."

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html)"

"You also stated:
"Bose also won a contract over a more genuine acoustics company for the design and building of a noise cancellation system in modern jet fighter aircraft for the U.S. Airforce. "

Where did this information come from?"

The passage you paste appears to be my own, making as honest a precis as possible after reading an extensive passage from this article. If you read, as I have said, you will see it states that:

" Bose won the contract over two other companies simply because of their "more established name" (brand recognition). "

I think this also will clear up your question about 'other companies'.

"There really is no need to get mad. I'm just asking you a few questions, because you seem to want to sound like an authority on USAF contracts."

If I were to get mad at this, then people would be forgiven for believing I am as petty minded and ego-centric as you are. Irritated, perhaps but then I'm sure that was your intention. Well, I'm sorry to disapoint you, but perhaps you can console yourself with the idea you have now at least won the badge of 'most irritating contributer' for the month. Well done.

I don't think my statement even slightly alludes to the desire to sound like an authority on anything. I'm sure most normal people (without having a sudden display of an*l retention) will be able to see I am merely citing something I have read - to be taken in context with what it is - a reasonable, if colourfully written conclusion used to support one kind of opinion. Does it satisfy you if I admit the post was written in haste, assuming a few things? If you're that concerned with it all, I suggest you read the article for yourself.

I'd also suggest that if you wish to make a critical evaluation of the article posted by both Kano and myself, you do it by researching each statement made by the author through a search engine or public library, rather than attacking someone for merely offering it up, albeit in their own words. Perhaps this way, you'll learn something useful without the need to gain a few ounces of fat for your intellectual vanity.

"Here is an article about the bose noise cancellation system. It talks about the headphones and not systems that needs to be ripped "out of all planes and find another company"...like you said.
I was going to quote them, but I don't want to sound like I am an authority on these things."

Don't mistake an air of smugness for charm, Berny. In the words of Captain Jack Sparrow:

"You really need to get yerself a girl!"

Boy - some people have time to waste. I think I've wasted enough on this person already.

V

 

Gold Member
Username: Project6

Post Number: 2686
Registered: Dec-03
Varney,
Come now laddie, I just posed a few questions about your sources. Was it that unreasonable?

Given that you put in your source after the fact...you still turned around and posed the same question I asked you about the USAF and how they do business. A tactic by someone who really doesn't know the answer, but too mad to just say, "ooops, I was wrong". And you call me ego-centric?

And then, you resort to name calling and blind assumptions of my need by quoting Captain Jack Sparrow. Are you writing in haste again?

You got called on your statements and you just plain hated it. You even try to bring Kano into the fray, I was not even close making any critical evaluations about any of his statements, he was pointing out reading material. I asked YOU a few questions! My, oh my, your ego got really bruised!

I'm really sorry if I irritated you, but I just wanted to ask the question about how you know things regarding the USAF.

Relax and try not to take it too personally!

"You seem somewhat familiar, have I threatened you before?"---Captain Jack Sparrow. Now that was a good line! Hey since we are quoting Pirates of the Carribean, I thought I'd put that in there, heh!

Oh and, to continue your quote on Captain Jack Sparrow...

"You need to find yourself a girl, mate!Or perhaps the reason you practice three hours a day is that you already found one, and are otherwise incapable of wooing said strumpet. You're not a eunuch are you?". I would have taken offense to that...so insulting and so clever!

It is not like we are debating cables and wires:-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Varney

BirminghamEngland, UK

Post Number: 320
Registered: Sep-04
Okay, okay, my ego is really bruised and I've just had to go out and vandalize someone's car to get the aggression out. Oh my, I'm heading for a nervous breakdown - that Berny is so intelligent, he can cut right through the intricacies of your tiniest statement and now he deserves that rush of granduer and pride that he's worked so hard to squeeze out of our discourse.

Is that what you wanted to hear?

Get real - I've met 11 yr olds with sharper wits than you.

Now do you want to talk about BOSE, or do you want to continue this childishness on your own, outside where you belong?

We have a term here for people like you: Wanker. Can mean anything from phsyical to intellectual masturbati0n. In your case, probably both.

Enjoy this post. It's the last one you'll get from me on the subject.

And I was right. You do seem to have a lot of time to waste.

Enough time wasted by me already I feel.

V

 

Gold Member
Username: Project6

Post Number: 2687
Registered: Dec-03
Still name calling, huh? And you talk about 11 year olds.


So,you really don't know how the USAF does business?

 

Silver Member
Username: Varney

BirminghamEngland, UK

Post Number: 322
Registered: Sep-04
Berny, it's going to cause distraction. Take it somewhere else, please.

V
 

Gold Member
Username: Project6

Post Number: 2689
Registered: Dec-03
Sure, no problem.

I apologize to everyone...I didn't mean to hijack this thread!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ca_convert

CardiffUK

Post Number: 92
Registered: Jan-05
Yeah but you DID berny...sorry I didnt mean to p*ss my pants..yeah right! :-)

 

New member
Username: Shokhead

Lakewood, CA USA

Post Number: 8
Registered: Jan-05
Bose is overpriced for what you get. See how easy that was.
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