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Sony KDL-52W3000 showing lines / doubled picture

 

New member
Username: Mybadtv

Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-11
Hello Folks,

I've been having problems with my Sony KDL-52W3000 flat screen TV for about a month. When you first turn it on the upper part of the screen is doubled up. At first it would go away in about 2 minutes. Now its taking about 20-40 minutes.

Here is what the screen looks like:
http://shopper-coupons.com/Sony_KDL-52W3000-1.jpg
http://shopper-coupons.com/Sony_KDL-52W3000-2.jpg
http://shopper-coupons.com/Sony_KDL-52W3000-3.jpg

I've read the horror stories from customers on the Sony forum about "lines" on their different model flat screens and the lack of support from Sony. I posted this on the Sony forum for help, but don't have much faith with the Sony techs because they are trained to direct people to a local technician. Why pay $150 for them to tell me to replace it, or buy a $1500 part!!

By the way the TV is acting, it has to be a heat related issue. I know the PS3 systems experienced the same problems and "reflowing" the board fixed my PS3 system several times over the past 8 years of heavy use. I bet that whichever control board is causing this could be reflowed with a heat gun.

Does anyone know what board it would be? Yes, I could reflow all the boards, but I really don't want to do that much surgery to the TV. I've already opened up the TV once and checked all the wires and connections. It worked for about 3 days after that and then went back to the same thing. Has to be a connection/heat problem on a board where the solder came loose.

Any help would be appreciated!
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 2629
Registered: Oct-07
reflow can't generally be done with a heat gun. solder melts at a much higher temp.
New solders which are 'compliant' with the new environmental rules have little or NO lead and I think are a little more brittle.
I had a TV fixed with reflowing some solder joints, too, but that was years ago on the last of the round-front 36" direct views from Panasonic.
 

New member
Username: Mybadtv

Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-11
Thanks Leo, but I've reflowed my PS3 system about 5 times without any problem. I use an industrial grade heat gun that can range from 750-1200 degrees F.

I had a reply on another forum from a gentleman who gave some insight on the problem and a possible solution. It may not be a regular board afterall, but actually the heat-bonded ribbon cable that is directly on the LCD.
http://television-tech.com/QandAblog/lcd-panel-fix/

Due to the complexity of trying to do this with a thin ribbon cable, I will probably wait until the TV no longer fixes itself after being on for 30 minutes. It will be hard to evenly heat crimp like the factory did and any screw up will probably render it worse, or completely shot.

I pulled the back off once and pushed on all the boards & connectors. That seemed to fix it for about 3 days, then it went back to the double screen until it was warmed up again.

But thank you for the reply!
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 2635
Registered: Oct-07
At work, we had 'industrial' heat guns which would take the baked enamel off a stove. They had a red, crinkle finish and variable intake vents.
Still, I'd use a soldering iron so I could control the heat better, and more importantly not COOK any parts near the solder I was trying to reflow.

You may be on to something with reseating boards. Clean any edge connectors with a pencil eraser, if they are 'old school' and maybe get a can of DeOxit spray if they're not.

If it is a standard edge connector, which is doubtful given it's a SONY, get one fabricated or buy one from Sony spare parts. Sony will only charge 10x what it's worth.
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 2636
Registered: Oct-07
The guy that did the 'fix' in your link used a butane torch! Talk about a suicide run or all/ nothing fix. OUCH.
If it comes to that, by all means USE the heat gun!
 

New member
Username: Mybadtv

Post Number: 3
Registered: Nov-11
I agree with you on that. When I do attempt this it will be a last resort thing. I can wait 30 minutes for it to warm up before watching (for now), but if it gets worse then I have no choice but to try, but I will be prepared to buy a new TV just in case.

I think the best approach would be to cut a piece of copper pipe, or something metal that will fit -exactly- over the heat-pressed ribbon cable. If I can get a good even heat on the pipe and then quickly crimp it tight against the panel, it just may reseal the connections. I wonder how its done in the assembly factory? I would guess its a fast process with a quick press of heat and release. With those types of paper thin plastic cables, its easy to ruin with excessive heat.
 

New member
Username: Mybadtv

Post Number: 4
Registered: Nov-11
I was reading about the anisotropic adhesive used in many LCD screens and the temperatures. It looks like I need about 300 degrees F for a good bond without damaging the plastic ribbon cable.

The proper way would be to remove the existing bond, clean it, apply a new layer of anisotropic adhesive and bond it again. However I really don't have much faith in being able to accurately and EXACTLY placing the cable in the same place it came off. That would cause some major pixel problems if I was off just by one wire/connection. A reheat is about the only possible way to MAYBE fix it.

I wonder why the TV panel manufacturers don't put the connections on the bottom of the LCD instead of the top. With heat rising, the top of the LCD will always be subject to more heat & stress than the bottom part. Seems like a built-in production flaw to limit the life of the sets so you only get 2-5 years from them.
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 2637
Registered: Oct-07
Manufacture of complicated things like TVs is done a step at a time and to a 'process' which has a specification. The tooling that does the ribbon cable attach you are going to re-attach is done with special tooling which is calibrated for time, temp and alignment. Periodically, these settings are checked for accuracy.

I don't know why the cable attaches where it does OR what kind of improvement activities the builder engages in. If they get enough field failures of this, you can bet it'll get fixed....soon.

OR, so you'd hope. Sony built several MILLION RPTV sets of LCD and SXRD technology, ALL of which had a built in flaw in the light engine. And they've got the class action lawsuits to prove it.
 

New member
Username: Mybadtv

Post Number: 5
Registered: Nov-11
Seems like a very common problem with the screens, especially on the Sony LCD TV forum. All Sony does is direct you to a local repair guy to come out for $95 to say, ahhhh, yes....you need a new panel which basically costs more than the TV itself cost. Granted they have come down in price since I bought mine 3 years ago. But when you invest $2500 into a TV you would expect it to last a bit longer than that. Heck I still have an old RCA TV that I bought at Sears about 22 years ago...still going strong. Its in the kids room and has actually now become a dinosaur only because the tv signal has changed to hi-def. Otherwise it would probably still be used for another 10+ years.

It is just a real shame that Sony seems to be ignoring the problem many people are having with their displays. Heck, even a car manufacturer will often recall/fix something many years after the warranty is out because of a flaw. Sony TV's are like milk....after the expiration date you pretty much have to throw it out.

And for me to say that...is bad. I have 2 Sony cameras, one being an F828 with tripods, flash assemblies, and more (apx $1300), Sony Stereo, 2 Playstation 3's, and even the Playstation 1 & 2 in storage. Been a long time Sony fan until now.

Things happen with electronics, but hundreds are complaining about their LCD's showing lines and doubled picture. If that is out of millions of TV's then it should be a cheap fix for them to address. Since they are not doing anything except offering a new tv at "discount", then they are aware of the problem but just want to sweep it under the table versus fixing it. I'm sure that complaining is a waste of time and that I will have to try to fix this myself or get another TV. But hopefully anyone looking to buy a new Sony flatscreen will think twice before doing so, or buy some 5yr extended warranty! lol!
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 2639
Registered: Oct-07
I wish I could be more help.
I took the Sony 'offer' for a new TV and bought one....than sold it the next day for a decent profit while making someone a pretty good deal, much below internet price, especially when you add in shipping.

Sony has P-O'd me, too. And a bunch of other people. I had one of the first 19" trinitron sets and it was perfect. My parents had it until you simply couldn't get mechanical tuner parts any more.

I have somewhere between an obscene and profane amount of money invested in Canon. 'L' series lenses, multiple on-camera flashes...the WORKS.
No more. The lifecycle is maybe 12 or 14 months for new point/shoot and just a little longer for 'pro' level '1' series cameras.

My brother's buddy still has an ancient RCA. This is Thompson electronics who also makes Proscan and GE....but I could be mis-remembering.

My SXRD cost 2500$ and lasted <5 years. Incredible, bright, clear and sharp picture. Too bad they ALL had a built in defect.

I ended up with the only set I haven't read a million complaint posts about. The Panasonic Plasma, is OK as TVs go, with an OK picture and clock radio-quality sound. I don't care any more.
 

New member
Username: 74f100

Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-12
Thought I would chime in here. BTW, I'm new to this forum. I'll look around more as time permits. But so far, great site!

I am the writer of the above article. There seems to be some confusion on this type of repair. So hopefully I can clarify here.

First, these panels use a conductive glue, not solder on the ribbon cables in question. The conductive particles are too small to allow bridging between runs, but large enough to conduct from the PCB to the ribbon cable. A heat press is used to bond this glue to the PCB, the ribbon cables, then to the glass panel.

I have had some success using a butane torch to heat a piece of metal pressing against the ribbon cable (Not directly on the cables). The trick is to apply enough heat and pressure evenly across the connection to re-activate the glue. You must hold the metal against the connection after heat is removed until the connection re solidifies. With this method alone I've had about a 50% success rate.

I am still working on a better overall method of repairing these panels, but we are just not seeing the demand to justify making this a major priority. So I work on it when I'm able to find time to do so.

I am a full time electronics / IT tech, so this is how I make my living. I wish I could devote the time necessary to get a better success rate, these were great looking TV's. I am happy to guide anyone looking to tackle this on their own, it isn't a difficult repair. It only requires some basic tools, and LOTS of patience.

Good luck!!

Jim
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