King's Corner for C/Ku Band on a small 1.2 meter dish

 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2922
Registered: Oct-06
Can yo get C-band on a 1.2 meter dish?

King says yes yo can

This is how to:
But before I start yo need the following
- All coax cables must be RG-6 Quad shield
- All connectors must be snap and seal No substitutes
- LNB of 60 dBs or better (55 dB can work)
- 1.2 meter on a motor and FTA receiver
- Yo must be 100 hobbyist with good installation experience

If yo got all the above then let's begin
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2923
Registered: Oct-06
I'll start with an example we are all familiar with

Galaxy 25 at 97.0°W

What size dish required for Galaxy 25 at 97.0?W




Upload

As yo can see signal strength is 46, 47 and 48 dBW
Let's assume based on 46 dBW

Look for Beam column
click on Ku (beam)
http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/maps/galaxy25_ku.html

Upload

Majority signal strength is 46 to 47 dBW
based on 46 dBW
Required dish size from chart next to it
60 to 95 CM
Take the average
My average is 77.5 CM
divide by 2.5 to convert to inches
Dish size is 31 inches
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2925
Registered: Oct-06
NSS 806 at 40.5?W

- NSS 806 at 40.5?W (circular C-band)

Click here:
1) http://www.lyngsat.*com/nss806.html
2) click on Beam Hemi
http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/maps/nss806_hemi.html
- Yo'll see on east coast signal about 40dBW
Dish size (I usually take the average)
- There is a chart next to it 85 to 115
at about 85CM signal is 50%
- at 115 CM signal is 90%
- If yo use 1 meter yo easily get 70%


Intelsat 9 at 58.0°W


Upload

Upload
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 53
Registered: Mar-05
In Asia and Europe where c-band birds are spaced out more than two degrees apart you can get c-band using smaller dish sizes, in North America this is not the case, as I have stated before, also 3/4 FEC helps with undersized reflectors, feeds using 7/8 FEC rate will not give you anything on a 4' dish,

If you hook up a spectrum analyser to a smaller reflector you will no why it will not work, as the interference is way to intense, this is not the old analog days where you play around to try and get the sparkles out, this is the digital age, you need a solid lock, transponder power and broadcast settings is what it comes down to, the arc is to crowded here.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2926
Registered: Oct-06
Teddy I value yor experience as clearly yo had hands on C-band
But the foot prints I provided are provided by the satellite owners
Difficulties yo may have encountered can easily explained
Yo may had so many trees, or yor house close or under sea level or yor coax cables may not be RG-6 Quad shield

Signal strength does not rely on FEC
I assure yo when it gets to electronics foot prints I'm as good as Engineers working for the owners of these satellites

If yo take a case by case we can come to a conclusion to that specific situation
But to say the foot prints are wrong I won't agree to that
I have seen wrong foot prints or not entirely accurate
But so say C-band doesn't work on 1.2 meter
That simply isn't true

Yo want to get strong signal use RG-6 Quad shield an I'll personally guarantee it
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 54
Registered: Mar-05
The power is correct the lyngsat recommended dish sizes are incorrect, as if I am not mistaken lyngsat is based in Europe and this could be why, I personally no some people in the industry, and they agree with me 100%, I know how to aim a dish, I find it laughable that you would think I would try to tune a bird in with the line of site blocked, again hook up a spectrum analyser to a undersized reflector, and you will see why it does not work.

What can you do different from what thousands of others have tried but failed? I have a 90cm Geosat, I never wasted time placing a c-band lnbf on it, my 1.1 meter Patriot pulled in some feeds, mostly on the east and if I recall a transponder or two on Anik F1, a few others here and there, very low quality, not much, I got nothing on 7/8 feeds.

If you can change the laws of physics you mite have a chance, if not then just use a 2 degree compliant reflector and have fun feed hunting.

Oh and also if you wanted to pick up trellis 8psk feeds my 10' does not even get a peep, you need 4.5 meter minimum.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 55
Registered: Mar-05
The fec (forward error correction) plays a very big role in reception, most people with 10' dishes that are out of wack are able to receive feeds using a FEC of 3/4, as there is room for improper alignment or f/d settings, now there are many people with 10' dishes that can't get the 7/8 feeds, because there is less error correction, so you have no room for error, it is hard enough to align a 8.5' dish to receive feeds with this fec rate, it is impossible to use a dish under 6' to even get a lock, as the low error correction will not make up the data for the receiver to put the puzzle together, as interference basically blocks out the tiny bit of error correction.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 56
Registered: Mar-05
I use Beldon solid copper core cable, I am using rg-6, if you are going over 100' use rg-11 Beldon has some great solid copper core cable, I do not use the cheap stuff.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 386
Registered: Dec-07
Hey Tedd
You have been here 3 years maybe more
with only as of now with 56 posts. You keep answering to that fool and you can
reach up to 100 before the day is over.

I would like to park on C-band but every website that I have check tell me no less then a 6 foot.

You are the C man.

Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2928
Registered: Oct-06
Teddy
First of all I would like yo to know I do have total respect to people that disagree with me especially if they spend the time explaining their prospective regardless of their post count.

But if yo got a moment yo may read my prospective perhaps make yor mind and the proof is gonna be on the roof

- FEC has nothing to do with signal strength
Forward Error Corrector is in the software no signal strength
It's an 8-bit flag selector
only 2 bits are active
Usually bits
1 and 2 (1/2)
2 and 3 (2/3)
3 and 4 (3/4)
5 and 6 (5/6)
6 and 7 (6/7)
7 and 8 (7/8)

The MP assigns 2-Hex digits containing the 2 specified bits
2 bits control 4 phase conditions for MPEG-2 and 3 bits for 8 phase (MPEG-8)
Yo wanna get HD yor receiver must be 720p or better
SD receivers won't work

What yo probably meant symol rate
But even symbol rate is not the reason for the size of dish

Symol rate by providers like DTV or DN use 20k to fit as much as bandwidth as possible the higher the more channels per TP seperated by frequency little closer where as some other TP s/r of 3K, 4K, 5K etc. may sound weaker but in reality they are not any weaker they just spaced much wider on the frequency spectrum

It's the receiver's tuner
More modern receivers that allow yo to manually input polarity, s/r, FEC etc.
Even if yo assign FEC on auto
Blind scan won't work on low s/r
Doesn't mean signal is bad
It's a narrow band requires exact dial
So manual input is the key to make it work
Modern receivers are the best for small dish C-band


Bottom line
Yo wanna make this work
High gain LNB and manual input to TP onto yor receiver



The EIRP yo agree is right as no satellite owner will provide bogus data
Lyngsat tables are very good and reasonably reliable doesn't matter Europe or N. America dish is a dish satellite is satellite

If yo say lyngsat are wrong they would been taken out long time ago
I assure yo what I say is accurate as I love to provide proofs supporting what I say
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 57
Registered: Mar-05
A undersized reflector is not getting enough of the signal to form the picture with a fec of 7/8, the loss of the signal with the data to remake the image is lost, I am not sure how else to explain this.

No I did not mean symbol rate, a very low SR requires a lnb with a local isolator stability of 250khz or less.

A good tuner helps with weak transponders or poor alingment, it does not do much for a undersized reflector however, for example try using a Pansat 9200 on the 7/8 feeds on Galaxy-3, many users have issues as the tuner is crap, and this is a modern receiver but since you need all the signal you can get on a 7/8 feed the poor tuner causes loss and so the image can't be formed.

The best lnb in the world will not change the laws of physics and so if the reflector is undersized and not 2 degree compliant there is not much that can be done.

Yes the EIRP is correct, but if you have C-band satellites spaced out over 5 degrees apart then a smaller reflector can be used.

I see many flaws on lyngsat, nothing is perfect.

Again this is very simple, get a 90cm dish slap on a lnbf or a feed with a commercial lnb, if you manage to even get a peep out of a signal hook up a spectrum analyser, you will notice the large amount of interference, looking at 5 satellites at once will not allow you to receive a signal.

It all comes down to having a reflector that is 2 degrees compliant, it's very simple, with the proper mathematical calculations you will come up with basically 8.5' that's it that's all end of discussion.

Here is a fast calculation.

3dB (half power) Beamwidth = wavelength / (diameter*reflector efficiency)

This is using reflectors that are used often.

Let's say a 75% efficiency of a 2.3 meter (7.5') reflector at 4GHz:
4.0/(2.3*.75) = 2.31 degrees

75% efficiency of a 2.8 meter (9') reflector at 4GHz:
4.0/(2.8*.75) = 1.90 degrees

75% efficiency of a 3.1 meter (10.0') reflector at 4GHz:
4.0/(3.1*.75) = 1.78 degrees

I'm not sure how else to explain this as this is my last attempt in trying to make you understand.
 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2704
Registered: Jan-08
King
I tried to catch channels on intelsat 9, but no success.
Signal OK 78/100 but no quality.

I tried it on all Tps and different setup.

I think too we need 6' or more for it.

Tested and no success for me.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2934
Registered: Oct-06
1 meter to 1.2 meter Teddy not 90CM
I'm not saying yo can get all C-band with a 1.2 meter
There are selective satellites:
On east coast
- 22.0°W NSS 7
- 30.0°W Hispasat 1C / 1D
- 40.5°W NSS 806
- 43.0°W Intelsat 3R
- 45.0°W Intelsat 1R
- 58.0°W Intelsat 9

On both East coast and West coast
- 113.0°W SatMex 6
- 116.8°W SatMex 5
- 121.0°W Galaxy 23

There are few other channels on other satellites but the ones I listed will get yo the most

My examples show selective beams that can be picked up on 1.2 meter availble for North America
I gave examples on how to pick the right one
What I said will work 100%


Yo still think FEC is the real factor
Give me a specific satellite example and I will tell yo what's wrong

If yo tell me 2 satellite complience then yo are missing my entire point
With do all respect to other experienced C-band users working without foot prints is like playing a symphony on piano without reading the musical notes
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2935
Registered: Oct-06
Plymouth
In Canada signal drops a lot based on link map I provided
1.5 to 1.8 meter dish maybe used upper Canada
What providence are yo at?
No Quality means wrong frequency
What TP?
Did yo input all freq parameters manually?

This is a great example to try in the US east coast or west coast
SatMex 5 at 116.8°W
try freq 4015 V, s/r 4030 FEC 3/4
Once yo enter TP values yo do chan scan
Yo should get couple channels as a test

Also
Galaxy 23 at 121.0°W

freq 3724 H s/r 3002 FEC 3/4 or auto

http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/maps/echo9galaxy23_c.html
http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/maps/echo9galaxy23_c.html
 

Silver Member
Username: Themangod

Post Number: 487
Registered: Oct-06
GREAT info thanks a lot i am going to print this page out and do it over a few weeks you do good work bless you.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 388
Registered: Dec-07
King here is the foot print of
Echo 9 @ 121.o*W C-band.
USA....dBW 41 & 42
does this mean that from anywhere in the USA
you can pickup C-band on Echo 9 with a 95-100cm Dish?




Upload C band
EIRP
(dBW) Size
(cm)
>42 75
42 55-95
41 70-100
}
40 85-115
39 105-130
38 120-150
37 130-165
36 135-180
35 150-200
34 175-225
33 210-250
32 235-275
31 260-310
30 295-350
29 325-390
28 365-435
27 410-490
26 460-555
25 520-625
24 580-710
<24>650
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 389
Registered: Dec-07
King here are the correct C-band foot prints. I suggest that you get in touch with Lyngsat.
webmaster@lyngsat-address.com.







Upload

UploadUpload
Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2706
Registered: Jan-08
King i,m in Quebec city.

I tried on intelsat 9 58W

Yes i tried all Tps manually
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nydas

Post Number: 10970
Registered: Jun-06
A very healthy discussion. Everybody please keep it clean.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 390
Registered: Dec-07
the smallest Dish to use in the east coast on C-band
for the above Birds is 8.5 feet. King how you like me now?

Merci mon ami
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2937
Registered: Oct-06
Tracksat lists as global
Al least 5 years outdated
For each orbital location it's got individual beam strength

I was at the satcon 2007, NY last year
I do have many collected foot prints from NSS and from many others I talked to their engineers in particular NSS and Intelsat

What I'm telling yo is true
Specific TPs yo can use 1.2 meter dish
Many people got it already


Plymouth
In Canada very difficult to get signal at 40dbW or even 38
But I'll point out some TPs yo can try for experimental


For everyone
I will post details on how to pick certain beams got higher EIRP and I'll scan data sheets i collected straight from satellite provider

Anyone says 8 foot is the only dish for C-band is very outdated
The proof will be on top yor roof
 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2707
Registered: Jan-08
King which receiver you use for it?
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 394
Registered: Dec-07
King do you ever tell the truth
(Tracksat lists as global
Al least 5 years outdated)


22°W NSS 7 Updated On 28-MAY-2008
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 58
Registered: Mar-05
As I stated previously, I did get some channels on the 1.1 meter Patriot, thing is you must keep in mind the channels that may come in now, will not once more traffic is added to the neighbouring birds, as the 2 degree spacing requires a 8.5' not to have interference, my 5' works pretty good but once you hook it up to a spectrum analyser you will see the the huge amount of interference, and of course why get c-band if you are not going to enjoy the hole arc for feed hunting? a few transponders here and there limits you tremendously, if you want to read up on mini buds there are many guys on the satellite guys forum getting a few channels, nothing new, it's very old news, I rather use a 10' and I am planning on getting a 12' for the weak feeds.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 395
Registered: Dec-07
Ding Dong the King is dead.
Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2938
Registered: Oct-06
Hawk AKA Yukon
I can teach yo a thang or two
Or simply leave yor ignorance alone
I don't care if yo learn or don't
Many ignorance like yo will never learn
I'm writing this for all other people as I'm 100% sure yo'll never get it

To everyone except for White Hawk:

Every Satellite at its orbital location has multiple beams
Satellite owners offer different services
in a form of spot beam as shown in my example

This is an example for a 4 year old satellite (2004)
Estrela do Sul 1 at 63.0°W
5 beams available
http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/eds1.html
Only North America beam is reachable at good EIRP
http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/maps/eds1_nam.html
Beams like: Andean, Brasil, Mercosul, Noar and North America
Only Beam North America reachable
But no channels populated yet
They will in couple of years


I know that first hand from the show
The foot prints I obtained matches lyngsat


This is another example
SatMex 6 at 113.0°W
http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/sm6.html
5 beams available
C1, C2, C3, Ku1, Ku2
4 of the 5 beams availble to North America
Yo should be able to dial any channel on receiver manually to tune to it
dialing exat inof directly from foot prints
Yo click on either beam to check foot prints
http://www.lyngsat.*com/sm6.html


Now I know that cuz I talk to engineers at the Satcon show and learn first hand

I find lyngsat extremly helpful and accurate
I find Tracksat global rather than reginal

I will scan foot prints I got from the show and post it as soon as I come back from my trip (my kids just got out of school)
 

Gold Member
Username: Runnerguy

Pluto

Post Number: 1465
Registered: Sep-06
Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2939
Registered: Oct-06
Just for the record
Tracksat updates channel listing only
EIRP maps are 5 years outdated to my best estimate
Yo can count on lyngsat
I know I do
 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2711
Registered: Jan-08
King which receiver you use for it?
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 396
Registered: Dec-07
King Tapeman
Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2939
Registered: Oct-06
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:38 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just for the record
Tracksat updates channel listing only
EIRP maps are 5 years outdated to my best estimate
Yo can count on lyngsat
I know I do

There you go lying again

Global Footprint Network Last Updated: 08/27/2007 ...


C/P

Senior Member Join Date: May 26th, 2004
Posts: 100

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimmswitch
Whats the smallest dish that can be used to catch cband signals?

Thanks

The minimum recommended size is 8 1/2 ft. but a 10 ft. dish is better, although you can get some stuff with a smaller dish it won't be able get everything if you want to sub to C-band analog or 4DTV programming.
The satellite spacing of 2 degrees means you need a large dish to see only one sat at a time, the 1.2 meter dish probably can see 3 sats at a time and would not work well in the crowded end of the arc AMC7 - Galaxy10 where there are lots of analog and digital channels.

Just like Teddy said.

 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2713
Registered: Jan-08
King itried to catch Estrela do Sul 1 at 63.0°W but nothing on linear or circular on blind on different freq.

I see 80 signal 45 quality but no locked Tp

Sorry my friend
 

Silver Member
Username: King_of_sats

Post Number: 395
Registered: Jan-08
Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2715
Registered: Jan-08
Boba Fett this thread dont need bashing

I dont have a C Band LNB and i have 33" dish, more, I dont know if my Viewsat is capable to receive it.

My LNB is made For these sats:

If you've got a motorized dish this is the ONLY LNB you need!

* 4 fully switched outputs: Circular, Linear, Circular, Linear
* Reception of both LINEAR/FTA (10750) and CIRCULAR/DBS (11250) polarization

* Linear: 30°, 87°, 95°, 97°, 101°, 121°, 123°W, etc
* Circular: 61.5°, 77°, 82°, 91°, 110°, 119°, 148°W, etc

And other sats with some channels on each

* Model: QPH-031
* Made by: Invacom
 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2716
Registered: Jan-08
If we want get many new channels on new sats, maybe bashers can keep this thread clean.

Thanks
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 397
Registered: Dec-07
Plymouth
Why do you call these people bashers when
they try to correct someone?

33" Dish and a Invacom QPH -031 will not
pickup any C-band Channels......

You say you pickup 77 why ,there is nothing there.

If you stop listing to King maybe you will learn something.
 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2719
Registered: Jan-08
White where i say i pickup 77?

C/P from this:

http://transatelectronics.com/store/invacom-quad-polar-lnb_P192

Bash by Boba Fett not you
 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2721
Registered: Jan-08
White i get these sats

61.5.W
110W
118.7W
119W
121W
82W
91W
93W
77W
99W
101W
96.9W
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 401
Registered: Dec-07
Plymouth, if I have your Latitude and Longitude correct then you should be able to park on this Bird. If your Dish and Motor is align

Latitude: 38.938°
Longitude: -76.333°
Name: 7.0W Nilesat 101,102, Atlantic Bird 4
Distance: 40875km
Elevation: 7.3°
Azimuth (true): 103.4°
Azimuth (magn.): 114.6°
LNB skew: -49.2°
 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2726
Registered: Jan-08
Thanks White i try it later
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2940
Registered: Oct-06
Hello Plymouth
I'm back
Many people already got C-band on 1.2 Meter dish
Yo can either listen to me and learn or listen to an amature who learned foot prints yesterday and get confused

I help people know how to read foot prints
I'm talking about FTA C-band not 4DTV C-band
They are 2 different things
This is how yo can get going
[link removed]

Upload

This is for a 100% FTA Hobbyist
Not a 4DTV

Yo wanna pick up C-band yo listen to me
- Yo need a C-band LNB freq 3.4G to 4.2GHz
- 1.2 meter dish
- yor VU-sat FTA receiver is fine
- Yo need to pick desired reachable beam of lyngsat

This is an example that can be reached anywhere in the US and Canada

- Sat: Galaxy 23 at 121.0°W
- Beam C
- Signal strength in Canada 39 to 40 dBW
- Recommended dish size by me King "1.2 meter"
- Example channel: The SportsMan Channel
- Manual freq dial is required
- TP-1 freq=3724 H s/r= 3002 fec=3/4
- There are at least 40 FTA south American channels reachable in North America

Another example on 121W
- Euro News of France
- TP-4 3781 V s/r 24437 fec=auto
- Beam C

- Signal strength in Canada 39 to 40 dBW
- Recommended dish size by me King "1.2 meter"


The key to get Q-signal is:
Must manually create TP freq
Select TP to aim for satellite 121
Q-signal will come
100% guranteed by me King

Hawk
I'm not going to comment about Tracksat-com anymore
All I can tell yo get the beam name if yo know what that is
Lyngsat provides just the right info to obtain it from satellite owners
Don't waste yor time with 7W
For that yo'll need the 10 foot dish
And yo can't be below sea level
 

Gold Member
Username: Plymouth

Quebec city, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 2768
Registered: Jan-08
Thanks King this LNB seems to be better then Invacom QPH-031 with C band add.
 

Silver Member
Username: Krishn

Post Number: 138
Registered: Sep-06
King:

From the site you mentioned, cost for getting a system installed

GEOSATPRO 1.2M OFFSET SATELLITE DISH - $135
C AND KU-BAND SATELLITE LNBF -$45

Plus motor for dish (don't think motor was included for $135 - I could be wrong)

If my recollections are not wrong, a while ago you had indicated that one could have a motorized system for around $100.

One is looking at around $300 apart from receiver to get a motorized system in place?
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2944
Registered: Oct-06
- First expenses for a true hobbyist is priceless
- Secondly SatelliteAV do sell Geosat motor for 1.2M dish I'm not sure why it's not on their site but they do sell it for about $60
- Also I see these people advertise a lot
[link removed]
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2945
Registered: Oct-06
Motor mounting procedure step by step:
http://www.dmsiusa.com/documents/SG2100%20easy%20manual.pdf
 

Silver Member
Username: Krishn

Post Number: 139
Registered: Sep-06
Thanks King
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2948
Registered: Oct-06
Yor very welcome Subash
I know I said I won't comment about tracksat anymore
But this time I like the reader to make their own comments

In the past I have advised people to get Ku channels off Hispasat 1C/1D at 30.0°W
Kavin Reno reported 45 channels on 1 meter dish

The retarded tracksat posted this
Yo be the judge

Upload

1C/1D at 30.0°W is clearly 30°W not East
According to their retardness
Also 1C/1D at 30.0°W is a Ku not C-band

This is the foot prints off Lyngsat
Yo be the judge

Upload


Please spend a moment to check it out
And judge for yorself if tracksat can be trusted as a public info for such important foot prints


maybe Hawk can help us explain this phenomina
 

Gold Member
Username: Runnerguy

Pluto

Post Number: 1472
Registered: Sep-06
Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: Gregraf

Post Number: 902
Registered: Dec-07
He goes by White Pigeon or White Trash is good to.


Upload
 

Bronze Member
Username: King_of_rats

Post Number: 17
Registered: Jun-08
Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2969
Registered: Oct-06
Timed and dated

They said it can't be done on 1.2 Meter dish
They are about to be proven wrong
Certified by King



The following is a step by step how to:

Obtain FTA C-band Satellites


SatMex 5 at 116.8°W

Upload

Step-1

From provided example
- Frequency and Polarity}
freq= 4001KHz, Polarity= V

Step-2

- S/R and FEC
s/r= 4100, FEC= 3/4

Step-3

Reachable Beam
Beam= C (usually it will have a designated name)
Assigned by Sat owner
- Yo must make sure beam is within yor regional reach
- Yo must make sure EIRP matches yor dish size
- Dish size can be determined by taking the average range
- Yo must make sure all cables and connectors Like I have in first post#2922 to option highest possible Signal

Step-4

Is a hyper-active if click on will tell yo where is the broadcast and additional info etc.

Step-5

Will tell yo if free or encrypted
- Make sure yo check color
- Light tan is FTA dark tan is encrypted
- As shown in table below

Upload

Step-6

Is an example color of encrypted channel
If somehow yor FTA receiver can decrypt the type of security encryption without proper decryption the channel will most likely be black with no audio. Occasionally an encrypted channel maybe viewable or audioable

Also example shows 77 Digital TV Clear channels and 43 encrypted

Step-7

Assigning a TP as per provided example
With all information provided in Lyngsat table it's time to Manually add TP
- In antenna setup add new TP
- Enter frq= 4001 KHz or 4001000 Hz
- Enter Pol= V
- Enter s/r= 4100
- Enter FEC= 3/4

If FEC is not provided in table auto FEC may or may not work
- Yo can now do chan scan
- Everything on that specific TP will come on (I guarantee it)

Note as TP has been added a Q signal will come on

Step-8

If little or no signal on that TP
Most likely additional dish or LNB tweak is required
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 65
Registered: Mar-05
Guys on the satellites guys forum have been getting some channels on this sat for a while, simple as the birds are over 2 degrees apart, keep in mind that a c-band satellite can be placed at 2 degrees from Satmex 5 in the future, also Satmex 6 is still very close for a undersized reflector, so once both birds have more traffic a 1.2 will become useless.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2971
Registered: Oct-06
Yes
Yo did say that
My step by step takes care of that 2 degree apart
And directly tunes to exact TP
That's what yor missing

"on the satellites guys forum have been getting some channels on this sat for a while"
That's correct too
And what I did here is explain the laws of physics and laws of electronics

People get it no one knows why or how
What king says here is what, why and how to
So far I haven't seen anywhere to explain it in scientific terms but I did and the proof is on the roof
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 66
Registered: Mar-05
No you are confused, entering pids and freq will do nothing for 2 birds with lots of traffic that are 2 degrees apart, you have not explained anything, you can get some channels on Satmex 5 as I already stated the birds are over 2 degrees apart.

There is no way to do this, it is impossible, I already gave you the calculation, I base my posts on fact you base your assumptions on fiction, anyone who wants to waste time and money could do what you recommend anyone that wants to enjoy sky scanning will get the proper equipment.

If you can get all channels on birds that are 2 degrees apart dvb and 4dtv with a 1.2 meter maybe people would care but since that is impossible you should not post inaccurate info.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2973
Registered: Oct-06
Is that right?
And when was the last time yo dialed freq manually?

Of course yo won't get 2 sats with a small dish
I wasn't even talking about 2 sats
One small dish equals one sat
Yo move dish with a motor yo get the second sat

FTA users know what that is
I guess yo don't
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 67
Registered: Mar-05
Huh... you really do not no much about satellite do you? If you are talking about a ku-band motorized dish then yes you will hit each bird when moving, if you are using C-band on a 1.2 you are hitting probably 3-5 sats at one time if they are 2 degrees apart, as I stated previously I have 2 10' dishes and a Patriot 1.1 meter what do you have?

Oh and I rarely scan feeds, I usually only enter info manually as scans never get everything.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2974
Registered: Oct-06
Do yo know what I think what yor confused about:
4DTV and basic C-band FTA
for the 10th time I'm gonna say they are 2 different things
Yo keep saying 4DTV
And I don't give a sh!t about 4DTV
I did ask yo once how much is it that yo pay and that was it

I remember one time yo told me
BSC21 LNB works on 4DTV and Not BSC21-2
That's possible
As one will respond to DISEqC protocol and the other not

When yo use a motor
Yo must select DISEqC 1.2
One works with 0/22k Sw the other with DISEqC 1.1
As I read from the specs

Yo can purchase one of few C/Ku combo and do both C/Ku
Will it work on 4DTV I say no
I don't care about 4DTV
I'm talking about FTA C-band
There are hundreds of channels later will be thousands

If yo are not following what I say
Simply ask what is it i'm talking about?
But i don't apreciate telling me I ain't got a clue and this whole thing is misunderstang of basic foot prints

Pointing to the center of the beam will enable/allow maximum flux density
And I had enough of this already
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 68
Registered: Mar-05
I am talking about dvb not DCII feeds, and you are wrong again as 4dtv and dvb are the same when it comes to a receive site, as I stated previously 4dtv is easy to tune in unlike many dvb feeds, this is why many big dish owners give up on dvb as there dishes are undersized or in need of alignment.

If you think dvb and DCII mpeg-2 feeds are different in the receive end you are more clueless than I thought.

You are wrong again as usual, as the BSC-621 will work on the 4dtv as the ku-band is standard, the BSC-621-2 is Universal ku, I would never recommend any of these low cost lnbf's as the stability is garbage, a feed with quality Cal amp or Norsat lnb's is the way to go, especially for raw dvb feeds that are hard to tune.

I already get about 700 channels on c/ku-band dvb, as I have the proper receiving equipment combined with many receivers like 4dtv, dvb receivers and a pci card, I also no how a DiSEqC motor works as I use the Stab HH-120 for my 1.1 meter Patriot, I have setup and installed my own dishes, and will hopefully be adding a 12' soon, and I have played with C-band on my 1.1 and my old 5' mesh, not worth it for the limited amount of channels that can go away shortly as more traffic goes up.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2975
Registered: Oct-06
Is that so
I'm glad yo got that under control
http://www.dmsiusa.com/documents/cku-comparison.pdf

The only thing yo got right is BSC-621-2 is Universal Ku
And since that's not what I was talking about
According to yor Laws of physics which I know a little bit from high school:
If I point to 117°W SatMex-5 C-band
I will get an interference from (Anik 119°W) as well as (115.0°W XM 4) or possibly (114.9°W Solidaridad 2)

Yo said 3 or 4 satellites
Got it

Well
Thanx for yor warning
I'll keep that in mind
Thanx for yor time and educating replies
Been fun exchanging few words
What can I say
I learn something new everyday

King T.M.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 69
Registered: Mar-05
The birds would have to be C-band to cause issues, and everything about the BSC-621 and 621-2 is correct as I have used them both for testing for a local dealer, I also tested the Geosat c/ku lnbf on the 4d and dvb receivers I find it better than the dms lnbf's but again I would go with a feed and quality lnb's, I use the Norsat 8115 and 4106A on one of my 10' dishes, I have cheap lnb's on the other one will swap them later this year.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2976
Registered: Oct-06
Norsat 8115 is a great Pro LNB
I'm not desputing that

What FTA receiver yo got?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 70
Registered: Mar-05
I have a Traxis 3500 a Pansat 2500A and a 102g pci card, a Ariza 700 and I had a Digiwave Diamond that I was testing for a dealer, he offered it at a good price if I wanted to keep it but I rather wait for a better DVB HD receiver to come out, I mean the Diamond was nice but just like all the dvb HD receivers it could be so much better, I have seen the Quali TV as my buddy has one, it is pretty nice.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2977
Registered: Oct-06
Just to let yo know
Traxis won't let yo specify FEC they are auto detect and real pain in the butt on certain freqencies
Pansat 2500A I never tried one but from users complains I can only imagine it's crappy tuner and maybe the worst ever
Ariza 700 these are real old receivers

Teddy these are very old receivers
They don't even make these models for past several years
Things have totally changed in modern FTA receivers today

I was more impressed with VU-sat tuners not the video quality just the freq tuner and I'm totally blown away with Visionsat 200 tuners and superior video quality

This explains a lot to what yo said
Yo may want someday try VU-sat freq tuner and yo'll thank me
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 71
Registered: Mar-05
I have tested all the Viewsat models as I test receivers for a local dealer, I am happy with my receivers, they seem to work fine, I am not a fan of the poor blind scan on many other brands, I use to have a C**lsat 5000 from all there models I would say that one was there best.

The Traxis is the best for scanning, it is the fastest I have ever seen, I have it on the 1.1 meter Patriot mite get another one for one of my buds.

I have never had issues with my Pansat, its the grandfather in my dvb batch of receivers.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2982
Registered: Oct-06
They are all discontinued by their manufacturers
They will work fine to old TPs
But newer FTA receiver real wizard tuners
When yo finally get yor hands on'm yo'll say WOW
Very powerful Tuner Tools
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 72
Registered: Mar-05
Hmm, I'll have to play more to notice a difference, yes I agree if I do a tuner test and bump the dish off till it is unwatchable some receivers do lock the signal better than others, the Traxis does have the best signal meter I have seen on any receiver to date, and the pic is good to, I would say it's one of my favourites, to my knowledge they are very popular as the dealer that had me test it always has them on back order, and just had a new batch in the other day, so they must still be in production.

I have played with many other brands and have kept the ones I liked best, right now I am waiting on a new dvb hd receiver as I have played with the Sonic Viewsat and Coolsats among others and I am not impressed.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 429
Registered: Dec-07
Teddy
I did warn you.

BTW I am also waiting for a new
model of a HD receiver to hit the market.
What do you think of the Pansat 9200HD?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 73
Registered: Mar-05
I tested the 9200 and the tuner sucks, worked for me but I read many posts about it having issues on many 7/8 FEC feeds, basically if your dish in not aligned well (like 85% of home user dishes) then this is not the unit for you, I tried it when it was pretty new so I am not sure about the new S2 board, I read the blind scan does not work on H.264 S2 feeds if that's true that kind of sucks, no 4:2:2 just like every receiver in North America, oh and it has some really crappy parts inside, so would I get it? probably not.

So far pci cards are still the best bang for your buck, new receivers are coming out I guess we have to wait and see.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mucho

Post Number: 431
Registered: Dec-07
Teddy
THANKS for info.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 2986
Registered: Oct-06
Hawk get lost
Go study tracksat specs in more depth

Ted
I had someone call me few days ago with 2 Traxis 1500 and 3500

One gets signal of no more than 45%
Enough to get few FTA channels on simple basic Ku band the other is absolutly zero
I did a simple swap at 45% the 3500 won't even see the Q-level
I tried to do tuner tweak no FEC tools all auto detect

I went home to get my VU-sat
Tweaked the TP got the signal in few seconds as I finished entering all the TP specs.
Hundreds of other times by entering all TP details get those hidden channels that are hard to get

If yo tell me Traxis with auto FEC detect is better that's cuz yo didn't try other newer models. Trust me FEC auto detect is the main problem why can't get channels with low s/r somehow they don't see it

Traxis is good receiver scans high signals well
But there are dozons better
Traxis 3500 has problems for low s/r
The 1500 is better

Right now I carry 4 or 5 receivers
Tuning a receiver can be tricky hobby
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nydas

Post Number: 11054
Registered: Jun-06
So far I am impressed with both of you - King and Teddy.
Please keep the conversion going without fighting. It is very informative.

Thanks.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 3041
Registered: Oct-06
Let me show everyone how 2 degree C-band can be easily resolved:
Galaxy 18 at 123.0°W
Nearest C-band sat East is 121W
Nearest C-band sat West is 125W

- No major freq to 3795,V on 123W
- Majority TP low s/r FEC 3/4 or 5/6

Remember high s/r they can fit more channels per TP lower s/r less channels
For example on 125W
f=3860, V (11 channels HD) at s/r 29270 5/6

In fact I don't see one single identical freq 4100,4120, 4140 are just opposite polarity

And if any overlap freq will have to be
- Same freq
- Same polarity
- Same s/r
- Same FEC
And yo won't see that cuz there isn't
So Satellite interference is simply an incorrect analogy

I think yo just simply misunderstood the 2 degree compliance with a limitation of yor tuner
And a receiver that can't specify a particular FEC can give yo the impression it's an interference

Like I said if yo pick a particular satellite and can't get one selective channel I will be able to pin point the problem and solve the issue

Bottom line is
For all the hobbyists that already able to receive C-band FTA
I'm providing how it can be received in simple step by step:
 

New member
Username: Thermongod

Post :579

Post Number: 9
Registered: Jul-08
The King is Dead
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nydas

Post Number: 11085
Registered: Jun-06
Idiots like Greg raf and this new "kate" should stay out of serious discussions they do do not understand.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 75
Registered: Mar-05
I would be shocked if me the techs I know, professionals in the broadcast industry, and local big dish dealers are all wrong, even though we have mathematical calculations experience and proper equipment to determine this, hmm it's amazing I guess you are going to be the next Bill Gates.

No matter what receiver you have, nothing will work when using a undersized reflector in a crowded area of the arc, birds that are spaced out far or that do not have much traffic will come in but more traffic is going up daily and me and many professionals would not waste time or money on a undersized reflector, you are in North America get a 2 degree compliment reflector, this is 8.5' I would not go under 10' for the weak transponders, larger is better.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tapeman

New York City in-HD, NY

Post Number: 3050
Registered: Oct-06
Do yo know what's funny
It's always the least experienced members
that always open their mouth first


I strongly advice any member who wants to learn satellites well to be open mind first and to be willing to ask questions when something doesn't make sense

Any member whose response is an attack usually got no clue on what's going on share or discuss it's why they use bashing attacks cuz that's all they can do.

Teddy who obviously had hands on C-band
Had two points
- That dish can have a 2 degree interference on small
- 7/8 FEC are harder to get on small dish

My response was
- By comparing freq chart on lyngsat I don't potential 2 degree interference unless receiver can't identify s/r and FEC
Auto FEC is the source of interference not the frequency

- Also by comparing EIRP signal strength ad flux density 1.2M is suffecient enough for hundreds of true FTA channels
Mostly from South and Central America

I will list in details specific FTA channels that can be received on 1.2M dish and a modern FTA receiver
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdti1

Post Number: 76
Registered: Mar-05
For the channels that can be viewed just go to Satellite guys, they have members with some channels working, again though with more traffic and more birds going up these channels will not last to long.
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