16:9 picture on widescreen TV with horizontal black bands
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New member Username: CpluscPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-07 | Can anyone explain to me why, when in "full screen" mode on a widescreen TV, some content that is obviously of native widescreen format fills the screen, while some widescreen content has black bands at the top and bottom? I thought all widescreen format content would simply completely fill a widescreen TV with no horizontal black bands, but some doesn't... |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3375 Registered: Jul-04 | 1.78:1 discs will fill the screen, 1.85:1 discs will have small black bars on most TVs, some will zoom out that little bit automatically, 2.35:1 discs will have considerable bars, it just depends on the aspect ratio of the disc. If you want the screen full, use zoom. |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 797 Registered: Oct-06 | "Why" Resolution 16:9 is a ratio 1080 x 720 is 720i or 720p 1440 x 1080 is 1080i or 1080p When broadcast in 1080i: 720i or 720p will appear smaller. That is why you'll see black on top and bottom. Just like david said best if you zoom to fill screen. i or p don't play role in aspect ratio p is 60 frames per second refresh rate i is 30 frams per second refresh rate |
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Silver Member Username: Formerly_fxDallas, Tx Post Number: 250 Registered: Mar-06 | "When broadcast in 1080i: 720i or 720p will appear smaller." More innacurate info, this will not happen. xvxvxvx |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 949 Registered: Oct-06 | resolution |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 960 Registered: Oct-06 | I don't mind explaining the simple Size and resolution. But I'm not sure for what reason I will be accused of posting misinformation. Either post the correct Information or follow my simple examples and learn for yourself  Typical HD Broadcast in 1080i will be: 1440 x 1080 |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 961 Registered: Oct-06 | In some situations Size 1440 x 720 in an HD 1080i Broadcast Will appear like this  |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 962 Registered: Oct-06 | Or some commercials filmed at 1440 x 720 Broadcasted in HD 1080i Will look like this  Please note that 1080 x 720 is considered to be: HD 720p or perhaps 720i But because it is broadcasted in 1080i Transmition will appear smaller. If you watch sports a lot you will follow what I'm describing I hope this is a better information for everyone now  |
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Silver Member Username: Formerly_fxDallas, Tx Post Number: 251 Registered: Mar-06 | King, I am getting so tired of correcting you. The pictures you created would be accurate on a computer monitor but that has nothing to do with the size nor the 16"9 ratio presented on an HDTV screen. 1080i(p) will appear exactly the same size as 720p on a TV screen. The only difference will be the amount of data and resolution of the data within the same sized picture. I repeat the picturte will not shrink on your televiosion screen!!! Got it yet? Do you understand??? Again please refrain from providing incorrect information. xvxvxvx |
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Silver Member Username: Formerly_fxDallas, Tx Post Number: 252 Registered: Mar-06 | Just to be perfectly clear, David's example of movie aspect ratios was correct but has nothing to do with Kin's incorrect description and ramblings of 720 vs 1080. xvxvxvx |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 967 Registered: Oct-06 | That is because he is talking about DVDs I'm talking about broadcast Since Craig didn't specify I take that as you don't get what I'm refering to That is OK at least I tried And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way I layed porportional aspect in term of pixels I work with this daily |
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Silver Member Username: Formerly_fxDallas, Tx Post Number: 255 Registered: Mar-06 | If you work with it everyday you should be fired King. David was not talking about only DVD's you need to leatn what you don't understand. You obviously do not understand broadcast standards, aspect ratios, resolution (other than on a pc monitor) nor anything about High Defintion broadcasts. Please either admit you do not understand the subject being discussed in this thread ort at least stop posting incorrect replies. It makes you look foolish and I know how much you New Yorkers hate being fools. As far as Craig's initial question it is obvious to what he was referring to anyone who understands aspect ratios. xvxvxvx |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 969 Registered: Oct-06 | You must be blind dude He says discs You have no clue about HD Go ask LK |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 970 Registered: Oct-06 | I see why you are confused You never seen 720 commercials in 1080 Broadcast I can tell you don't have an HD TV cuz if you do you'll know what I'm talking about. |
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Silver Member Username: Formerly_fxDallas, Tx Post Number: 256 Registered: Mar-06 | "I see why you are confused You never seen 720 commercials in 1080 Broadcast I can tell you don't have an HD TV cuz if you do you'll know what I'm talking about." Well now King (lmao at that title) let us see just who does not own an HDTV. It is impossible, let me state this twice so you can fathom the meaning, it is impossible for a broadcast company to broadcast 1080i and then switch to 720p during a commercial, it cannot happen, I repeat again for the slow ones out there, it cannot happen. Physics and the broadcast companies HD equipment will not allow it to occur. Now to educate you just a small amount because I can tell in your hands a teeny weeny bit of knowledge will be quite dangerous. What you see when a 1080i or a 720p broadcast goes to a commercial break and the size of the picture does indeed shrink is: Are you ready Kingpin? Are you sure you can take the truth? "Hell, you can't handle the truth!" But, here it is anyway; You ae seeing the broadcast change from a high definition format to a standard definition format, for the simple minded it is 480i!! Got it now Kingpin? 480i 480i 480i, not 720p. Your lesson for tomorrow will be in humility, please be available, you need a little bit more than you have received today. xvxvxvx |
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New member Username: CpluscPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-07 | UPDATE AND RESTATEMENT BY ORIGINAL POSTER: I didn't mean to generate such technical controversy in my original question. I see that the "why does this happen" aspect of my original question may involve answers too deep for my purposes. The remainder of this comment makes the simplifying assumption that broadcasts are either 16:9 or 4:3, even though I now understand certain variations in widescreen format can result in those horizontal black bands even when your widescreen TV is set to make 16:9 content fill the screen. What I conclude (correct me if I'm wrong) is that I'm not necessarily doing anything wrong with my widescreen TV's aspect ratio settings, but that unless I want to adjust these settings for every program I watch, I am probably best off choosing the setting that will show true 16:9 broadcasts correctly (otherwise why bother having bought a widescreen?). The downside is that I will see 4:3 broadcasts fattened and stretched to fill the 16:9 screen, and that I will also have to put up with seeing those black horizontal bands on some types of "widescreen" content. I guess I'm getting used to seeing 4:3 broadcasts horizontally distorted. I was disappointed to find that widescreen TVs don't appear to detect the "correct" setting for both 16:9 and 4:3 broadcasts - i.e. without manually adjusting for each program's format, show 16:9 broacasts filling the screen but show 4:3 broadcasts with VERTICAL black bands to avoid distorting the picture. At least the "old style" TVs seemed to show both 16:9 and 4:3 formats without distorting the picture, even if this required those horizontal black bands for 16:9 content. If my understanding isn't correct, maybe someone can set me straight. |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 991 Registered: Oct-06 | Commercials send their footage on Tape not rebroadcast. This is why I'm King Tapeman You got a lot to learn scooby Now get off my back this is an open forum open speach you said what you wanted I'm finished with what I have to say let's just ended here. |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 992 Registered: Oct-06 | Craig I did get the impression you were refering to broadcast What I posted is correct very few people will understand what I have up there. I welcome anyone to look it up. Bottom line so many people can talk about verical resolution not knowing what takes place on horizontal. Any one read what I got and learn the right concept. I won't go further than this post. |
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Silver Member Username: Formerly_fxDallas, Tx Post Number: 259 Registered: Mar-06 | Tape or broadcast, it matters not. The home viewer doesn't get the tape from the advertiser now do they? of course not, they see the commercial from the network broadcast via their medium of choice (either OTA, Sat or cable). The commercials you refer to are being broadcast in 480i, period, no reason to state otherwise King, it is unreasonable to state your position when as you said any idiot can do a google search and find a reputable source for the correct information. The sole reason I posted in this thread is to warn the people who actually do a google search and find your baloney, they deserve accurate information, not some fantasyland version. xvxvxvx |
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Silver Member Username: Formerly_fxDallas, Tx Post Number: 260 Registered: Mar-06 | Craig, Over 99% of the HDTV's on the market do automatically detect an HD vs an SD signal and display correctly. If yours is not one of two things are occuring: 1: You either have a setting wrong in your TV menu 2: Or if using either a cable or Sat source you have an incorrect setting in it. 3: The most remote possiblilty is that you have on of the 1% of HDTV's that does not aut-detect. xvxvxvx |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 997 Registered: Oct-06 | - I take that as you are not aware that broadcast tapes are higher resolution than actual broadcast. - I also take that you also not aware that encoding to MPEG-4 don't require Digital Memory in a form of sample rate. That is ok with me when one day you work in this field with actual hands on video it will all begin to make sense. No need to use insulting words. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1492 Registered: Feb-04 |
Craig, you have not mentioned the make/model of your TV. I would bet that if you have the set's aspect ratio set to 'normal' (or words to that effect) you will see pillarboxed 4:3 video on SD and when you tune in an HD signal the TV will automatically fill the 16:9 screen. So I agree with Scooby in that you are most likely missing something on your video set-up. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1496 Registered: Feb-04 | Also Craig, you'll be glad you took the time to read this: http://www.highdefinitionblog.com/?page_id=6 |
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Silver Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 998 Registered: Oct-06 | John He was looking for an explaination: "why, when in "full screen" mode on a widescreen TV, some content that is obviously of native widescreen format fills the screen, while some widescreen content has black bands at the top and bottom" It is not a setup |
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Silver Member Username: Alright_boyPost Number: 135 Registered: Jan-07 | King, these are outstanding and informative posts, especially for the novice. Great work. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1499 Registered: Feb-04 | "King, these are outstanding and informative posts, especially for the novice. Great work" Agreed, especially for those novices that a) come from Middle Earth and b) failed English grammar. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"  |
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New member Username: CpluscPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-07 | I should clarify my earlier comment. I realize the TV will probably automatically detect the different between HD and SD. I was referring entirely to SD programming when I said it seemed the TV had no single setting that would "properly" show both 16:9 and 4:3 content (i.e. fill the screen for widescreen content and provide vertical pillar bars for 4:3 content so it isn't stretched to fill the screen). My TV is a brand-new Olevia S327V. Don't laugh... so far I've been quite impressed with it, and at the sites I checked owners of this brand gave it very high ratings. Also, the problem I've been noting where 4:3 content gets stretched to fill widescreen seems to be present even in the much more expensive widescreen TVs I've seen (including Sony and Philips). I had a chance to play with the settings of the Sony and it didn't seem to resolve the problem. In fact, at one store, I didn't see a single TV on display that wasn't stretching 4:3 content. I still realize I could be mistaken and that some setting can fix this while still making 16:9 programs fill the screen. Thanks so much for all the help. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York, NY Post Number: 1003 Registered: Oct-06 | Streach to fill screen will be in "Aspect" Your TV must have a botton for "ASPECT" I havn't seen yet an HDTV that doesn't have it so far. If you got cable you can set "auto wizard" It will auto detect Aspect ratio and auto streach from decoder box. Some satellite receivers may have it but you have to set it up check user man'l or call Tech support. Ask them for Auto Wizard. If you are using HD antenna or analog cable it is all up to TV capabilities again check User Man'l. Or call (T.S.) ask them for auto wizard. Auto wizard checks signal aspect ratio and auto convert to broadcast size. But you need to enable auto recognition (not all TV Tuners may have this feature) 480, 720, 1080 |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1501 Registered: Feb-04 | Craig, I'm not laughing---I owned an Olevia 537H for five days. I got a very good deal on an open box demo for $750 including sales tax. Unfortunately I had a serious problem with it. It would not power up unless I cold started it by unplugging power for 30 seconds and plugging it back in. My limited experience with that Olevia 37", plus reading your owners manual raises a couple of possibilities. 1) You want to make sure you are not in "Showroom" mode. The only way to check that is to cold start it as I described above. (See page 32.) Showroom mode, if I remember correctly, leaves the TV in permanent "Full Screen" mode, which is what you don't want. After the power's been disconnected the TV automatically gives the user the option of selecting "Home" mode, which is what you do want. 2) King is absolutely correct, there is an "Aspect" button on your remote. (See p. 29.) You are supposed to be able to toggle through various settings, including Aspect..."Toggles picture between 16:9/4:3 aspect ratio" Full Panoramic Zoom 1:1 Mode..."Returns the image to its original mode" I think you want the "Aspect" setting...however, maybe "1:1 Mode" is the ticket. Try both. Obviously you don't want the middle three. (See pp. 38-39) Try these suggestions. BTW, two other things about the Olevia: They have a wierd user interface that isn't particularly intuitive. Also, I thought the SD picture quality was better on the Olevia than the Vizio I ended up with.  Anyway, good luck. |
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