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Bronze Member Username: DeadhorsePost Number: 47 Registered: May-06 | I'm relatively new to the game and think I know what this is, the point at which the sub takes the low frequency over from the fronts but have no idea of how to go about setting it up? If anyone can help and needs specs from my components here are links to the manuals; Sub http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/content/yamaha/yst-sw515-manual.pdf Receiver http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/218219113VSX515 OperatingInstructions.pdf Fronts http://www.usersmanualguide.com/panasonic/speaker_system/sb-t200 |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 189 Registered: Oct-05 | The yamaha manual pretty much spells out how to set the sub on page 18 and 19. The Pioneer manual spells out the how to set the crossover to 80Hz on page 38. Start there and let us know what you are struggling with. |
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Bronze Member Username: DeadhorsePost Number: 52 Registered: May-06 | Westcott- I'm sorry and I really do appreciate the help but I don't see anything on page 38 about setting it to 80Hz, is this what you concluded from the information on page 38? |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 192 Registered: Oct-05 | 80Hz is an accepted starting point and has been extesively tested by Lucas Films. Once you get things going, you can play with lower settings but 80Hz is an accepted norm. |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2Extreme SQ FTW Post Number: 2044 Registered: Dec-06 | West, I'm a seein' ya around other forums! |
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Bronze Member Username: DeadhorsePost Number: 53 Registered: May-06 | So the lower I set the crossover frequency the more bass goes to all speakers before it "crosses over" and the sub takes all low frequencies? Also, what should I set the highcut frequency and volume to on the sub if I'm setting the crossover to 80Hz? |
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Bronze Member Username: Floyd_1977Plainfield, IL USA Post Number: 67 Registered: May-06 | If your sub has a connection that bypasses its built-in crossover, I would use it. Otherwise, set the crossover on your sub as high as it will go, so that only your receiver's crossover is in effect and not both crossovers. For example, if the highest setting for your sub's crossover is 200 Hz and you set it at that point, then your sub will (attempt to) reproduce all frequencies below 200 Hz, but if your receiver is only sending 80 Hz and below to your sub, then the 200 Hz crossover on the sub will essentially have no effect, which is what you want. |
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Bronze Member Username: DeadhorsePost Number: 54 Registered: May-06 | Nathan- Is my sub's high cut setting the equivalent of a cross over setting? If so I'll set it as you suggested. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 195 Registered: Oct-05 | Nathan hit it on the head. Set the subwoofer to as high as it will go and let the AV receiver do the bass managment. |
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Bronze Member Username: Floyd_1977Plainfield, IL USA Post Number: 68 Registered: May-06 | "High cut" and "low pass" are both types of crossovers. The low pass crossover in your receiver is the threshold at which lower frequencies will be sent to your sub. The high cut crossover on your sub is the threshold at which higher frequencies will be discarded. Crossovers are gradual, not sudden, so if you set your receiver and sub crossovers both to 80 Hz, your system's frequency response could have a valley around 80 Hz due to tapering off of the spectrum around that point by the sub's high cut filter. I think it's for this reason that the sub's crossover level is only in effect for the speaker level inputs, and the sub's crossover is disabled for the line level (LFE) input. If you're connecting your sub with the line level input (which is the easiest way), the sub has no control over the bass management of your main speakers, so you want the sub's crossover disabled. It's only when you connect your sub's speaker level inputs in series with your main speakers that you would want to engage your sub's crossover. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. |
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Bronze Member Username: DeadhorsePost Number: 57 Registered: May-06 | Gentlemen, thank you for sharing your knowledge and all your help. Last night I set the high cut to max on the sub 140 Hz and the crossover on the receiver to 80 Hz and could tell the difference immediately. I still have a couple of question regarding this issue though. 1. Why not turn the volume up to full on the sub itself, if I paid for a sub with an amp why not use it? 2. Nathan, you said the crossovers are gradual, does that mean if there's a sudden burst of low frequency that it may get out to the wrong/smaller speakers before the sub takes over? FYI here are three movie scenes that I love to test my system with, especially the bass, the opening "start you engines" scene for Days of Thunder, the lobby scene from the Matrix and the kracken sceen for Pirates of the Caribean 2. |
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Bronze Member Username: Floyd_1977Plainfield, IL USA Post Number: 69 Registered: May-06 | 1. I prefer to calibrate the sub to be at the same level as the other speakers, so I can hear the material as it was intended, but if you want to go higher according to preference, there's nothing wrong with that. Dialing it in to the max because "you paid for it" doesn't make much sense though. Using that logic, you would turn up the brightness, contrast, etc. on your TV to the max, set your thermostat to 110 degrees, etc. Personally, I like to set the dial on my sub so that the 0 (zero) setting on the receiver is the calibrated level. Then, I never touch the dial on the subwoofer and only turn up the sub level through my receiver if I want an extra boost. That way, I always know where the calibrated level is. 2. When I said gradual, I was referring the the frequency where the crossover takes effect, not the time it takes the receiver to cross over. A crossover of 80 Hz really means that starting at 80 Hz, the receiver will start to gradually roll out the main speakers and roll in the sub, so that your main speakers and your sub blend together. So, even at a crossover setting of 80 Hz, your main speakers will still be playing some music below 80 Hz. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 197 Registered: Oct-05 | The reason we limit the sub to 80Hz is because over 80Hz, low frequencies become detectable\directional and in most cases, we want the subs location to be transparent to the listener. A properly set up sub provides low frequency support while remaining transparent. Your main speakers should handle everything above 80Hz, if they are capable, which most floor standers are. Also, most subs are not designed to provide a flat fequency response over 70 or 80Hz. It creates more engineering headaches and adds to the cost. Since that is not how they are used, rarely will a sub provide a flat frequency response above this. Bass is not all about how loud, but how natural and flat it reproduces the frequencies and how well it blends with the other speakers. Do it improperly and you muddy the rest of the frequency range produced by all the speakers, reducing the overall sound quality. Quality bass and a properly set up speaker system is an acquired taste. Most people have never heard such a system and once they do, they may not like it at first. It takes getting used to hearing audio the way it was meant to be reproduced. Much like a Belgian Ale or a Champagne. If all you ever drank was lite beer and sparkling wine, you may not like an import right away but once you grow to appreciate its differences and the years of development, you can grow to enjoy it. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 198 Registered: Oct-05 | I think I may have forgot to address your volume question. (I hate this forums lack of editing and quotation features)To properly set the subwoofer volume (and all the speaker volumes, for that matter) is to use an SPL meter and a calibration DVD like Digital Video Essentials. The test sounds will allow you to set all of the speakers to the same dB level at the primary listening position. I usually test at 85dB but check with the calibration DVD suggestions. Once you set up the SPL meter, preferably at night with everything off that you can think of, even unplugging the refrigerator, if need be, run the test sounds and adjust the volume of each speaker, including the sub to the 85dB or recommended dB of the calibration company. Use a tripod if you have one. The calibration DVD should also tell you the best sampling rate and other settings for the meter. Until then, you will not know exactly where to set the subwoofer volume level. It should be close to half way, but this is a VERY general statment to get you by until you conduct the very important calibration described above. Hope this helps. !@#$@%&%*&()%^%^#$%^ forum tools! |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 199 Registered: Oct-05 | Dont forget to set the speaker distances too. I assume your AV receiver has all of these capabilities previously described. Skip any equalization for now. We will get to that later. Also leave the treble and bass settings at neutral, as well. |
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New member Username: RockliffmtPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-07 | This is all great informative reading. Thanks to all who have inputed. I arrive home from a month at work with my brand new receiver and speakers to set up next week so this thread has been great reading for me. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 203 Registered: Oct-05 | Everyone is a winner in this forum who come with an open mind and leave, having learned something. Welcome to the group. We look forward to your participation and a few jokes along the way. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 204 Registered: Oct-05 | Don't forget to go on line and order your calibration DVD. Also hit Radio Shack on the way home. The analog or digital SPL meter are both acceptable and are around US$25, if I remember correctly. Point is, they are valuable tools for calibrating your audio and your video and no one should be without them. !~@#$#%^&*%&*(^&^^@$ forum tools! |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 205 Registered: Oct-05 | My favorite subwoofer test DVD is Polar Express. When the train pulls up to the front of the house, it is simply incredible. With a good sub, it will sound like it is going to come through the wall. As for the movie itself, that is another matter. Another favorite is Saving Private Ryan and the opening scene. More effects than subwoofer test but still impressive. Third, I like to use the Hell Freezes Over CD, playing Hotel California. Wish you were here, Pink Floyd is also a good intro workout. |
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Bronze Member Username: DeadhorsePost Number: 58 Registered: May-06 | Westcott- I was speaking with someone in regards to this issue and they emailed me this, what do you think? There may be one little detail that we are both forgetting. In your receiver set up you should have the opportunity to set the "size" of your speakers. The usual/best set up if you have a sub is to set all of your speakers to "small". This utilizes the cutoff/crossover frequency as the dividing line between mains and sub. If your speakers are set to "large", then your sub gets the 80hz and below but your mains get the full spectrum of frequencies including those being sent to the sub. This obviously defeats the entire purpose of having a sub in your system but you have the choice in your receiver set up menu. |
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Bronze Member Username: DeadhorsePost Number: 60 Registered: May-06 | I also just came across this from the "how to set up" section of ecoustics.com on my receiver. If you set Fronts to Small, everything else must be Small. If you set the Fronts to Large and the Surrounds to Small, the Back Surrounds must be Small. If you set the Surrounds to off, you can't have back surrounds (this is good). If you remember to set everything to Small as Audioholics suggests for most people and let your subwoofer take care of the low end, you won't have to worry about it. At this price point, I see a lot of satellite systems anyways. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 209 Registered: Oct-05 | I agree that all your speakers should be set to small. The particulars of your receiver may vary but setting all to small is the safe bet. |
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Bronze Member Username: DeadhorsePost Number: 62 Registered: May-06 | The only question I would have with this is I still prefer to listed to music through my two front speakers. If I set them to small then played a CD through just them, bypassing the sub, would I loose sound quality or because I'm playing it in just stereo is it all through the fronts? |
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Bronze Member Username: Floyd_1977Plainfield, IL USA Post Number: 74 Registered: May-06 | Nick, you have it backwards. If you are playing in stereo and have your speakers set to large, your subwoofer will not be active. In this case, you will be missing some of the low end if your main speakers are not up to the task. If you set your speakers to small in the receiver menu, then your sub will be active. |