LFE channel issues with Onkyo HT-S650, TX-SR500
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Anonymous | I have read in the other forums linked through ecoustics that these receivers have problems decoding the LFE channel. This means that in many cases what comes out from the subwoofer is only what is crossed-over from the 5 channels and not the .1 signal and therefore you don't hear the sound mix that you were supposed to. So I would recommend you test the receivers you buy, because if you just use mode 1 and a high crossover it is kind of masked since there is some subwoofer output. |
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Anonymous | I use the mode 3 and it doesnt produce much bass until you set the crossover at 120 and raise the decibel to +3 to 5 on the ch sel |
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Anonymous | It is not an issue of how much bass is produced but an issue of if it plays the LFE .1 channel and not just what is crossed-over from the other speakers. It seems that your receiver has this problem. |
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Anonymous | SO how do you check this??? |
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Anonymous | Go to hometheaterforum.com and search for "onkyo ht-s650" and then look at the thread titled "Serious problem with onkyo ... help". |
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Anonymous | What forum is it under. I can't find it because the 'search' function on the site is not working... |
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Anonymous | If that is on hometheaterform.com, I can't find it!! |
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Anonymous | Can't find it even spelling the name right! |
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Anonymous | Here's the link: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=8187f8f8157b4b0445366959fb4dd2a7&threadid=116955&highlight=onkyo+hts650 |
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mine seems ok | My system seems to work fine in LFE mode 3. I tested it with Minority Report in DTS mode. During the scene at the Lexus assembly plant, when the agents fire the "sub-gun" you can really hear and feel the sub. Every other part of this scene has the normal amount of bass so I don't think the "sub" sound is leaking in from the other channels. If that were the case, I would here a constant "rumble" throughout this scene. Sub Mode 3/Monster cable/Crossover 120/+3 volume/knob on sub 3/4 |
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Anonymous | mine seems ok - DTS uses a different decoding scheme for LFE effects. You need to test this with a DD 5.1 DVD, or better yet, a THX optimizer on any THX-certified DVD (Ice Age, Star Wars 2, etc.) Run the first audio test which is the 6-channel speaker setup. When it gets to your subwoofer, if you hear a nice, clean output, you do not have this problem. If you hear distorted, "garbled" noise coming from the subwoofer, you do have the problem. The best place for info on this issue is over at HomeTheaterSpot at: http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB71&Number=357548&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 |
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Anonymous | Hmm, I'm one who has truly enjoyed the HT-S650 with the sub in "Mode 1." Rereading the manual, it claims that mode 1 sends low frequencies from ALL channels to the sub. Would that not include the LFE channel on 5.1? Mode 3 does, indeed, send only the LFE to the sub. When playing LOTR dd soundtrack in Mode 1, the shock wave on Sauron's defeat in the prologue starts out in the regular speakers, then goes into the sub, and finally sends vibrations right through your chest. Is that last part not the LFE channel? In mode 3, the sub seems to kick in only at the low point. My speakers are set to 120 (small) crossover, so I think I miss something in Mode 3, yet get all of the bass, including the LFE in Mode 1. I will keep checking on this, and have to tweek the crossovers for Mode 3. But Mode 1 sounds fine to me. |
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Anonymous | Mode 1 sounds okay AND Mode 2 sounds okay because it is passing "normal bass" to your subwoofer along with the LFE-channel. It's Mode 3 that has a problem. You have to understand the differnce between "normal bass" and "discrete LFE" to comprehend this problem. Follow the link above the HomeTheaterSpot if you want to read all about it. If you can watch LOTR DD 5.1 on Mode 3 and your bass doesn't sound distorted, then you most likely do not have a problem. The true test is to use a THX optimizer from any THX certified DVD. |
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Anonymous | This so called problem sounds like bullshet from an onkyo competitor. Be careful what you're reading folks. |
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Anonymous | Onkyo HTS650 owners: In your opinion, what's more distorted, your LFE or the description of this problem? |
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Anonymous | I'm afraid the problem is, indeed real. I bought my HTS-650 in November and was happy with it until the other day when I read this. After doing some checking, I was able to confirm that the receiver does, in fact, have a problem decoding the LFE (.1) channel in DD encoded movies. This is most evident on Subwoofer Mode 3 because it sends ONLY the .1 LFE to the Subwoofer. A fine example of this is Attack of the Clones. Watch the first part of the film in DD and Sub Mode 3 until the ship blows up. You will hear only a few loud, odd, "put-put" noises from the sub during the ship flybys and it sounds terrible. Yes, you can put the sub on mode 1 or 2 and get all the bass, but it's the bass from the other 5 channels, not the one that the sub's supposed to be getting. And once you've heard the odd "put-put" noise, you can tell it's there even during the same sequence with the sub on mode 1. It's distorted and terrible. DTS works fine. I wish nobody had figured this out because I was so happy before. Now I'm kinda disgusted. Apparently this is a design flaw, not a defect, so most of the units are defective. Onkyo is being tight-lipped and reclusive about the whole thing. |
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OnkyoOwner | Just wondering when it would even be necessary to use the Subwoofer Mode 3? I've had the Onkyo HTS 650 system since September and have enjoyed all movies in DD, DTS all in mode 1 with crossover anywhere from 80 to 120. Does anyone know if other receivers have problems with this LFE-channel as well?? Can I just happily listen in mode 1 as long as I have the system & not worry, BE HAPPY  |
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Anonymous | You know what, if you are too stupid or too lazy to take the time to understand the difference between "discrete LFE" and "normal bass", then you probably deserve to be stuck with a receiver that can't produce LFE. I doubt the person who wrote this is an Onkyo competitor. They are simply trying to correct a wrong by pointing this out. This issue is 100% true, I have the same receiver and the same problem, and it's been verified by Onkyo. They are now working on a resolution for the problem units. Go on and live your life ignoring and mocking others who are trying to help you out. It's people like you who make the internet a bad place. |
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NOT AN ONKYO competitor!! | Wow!! Things are heating up over hear!! I assure you guys I am NOT an Onkyo competitor. OnkyoOwner - it is not neccesary to ever use Sub Mode 3, in fact, the suggested operating mode for most Home Theater setups is Sub Mode 1 or something of the like. What Mode 1 does is pass the "normal bass" that would normally be played in your main speakers to the sub (depending on the crossover point) ALONG WITH the "discrete LFE channel". The problem with the Onkyo HTS-650 is that the LFE channel is distorted. This will throw the accuracy of your bass off immensely. The best example of this on a well-known DVD is when the starship passes over in the beginning of Star Wars 2 ATOC. The infected Onkyo's will hiccup and distort the bass during this scene because it is in effect "choking" on the bass. The other very simple way to test this is to run the THX optimizer from any THX DVD, as I've mentioned before. It's really plain and simple. Sorry some of you are having problems understanding this... If you calibrate your system it becomes glaringly evident, IF you have one of the infected units. |
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Anonymous | I have a SR600 (which shares a manual with the SR700 so I'd think that they are similar). There is no mode 1, 2, or 3 with this receiver. You mainly set up that there is a sub, the size of speakers (large/small), and the distance. (Granted there are other settings if you have odd locations of speakers, etc). How would you know if this receiver decodes the LFE correctly? Thanks. |
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Anonymous | Only certain HT-R500 (part of the HTS-650 package) and certain SR-500 receivers have been verified to have the LFE-bug. The SR-600 and all higher models do not have this issue to the best of my knowledge. You test with AVIA or any THX Optimizer. |
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Anonymous | John Raymond wrote this post on Feb 3rd in another thread. Does anyone know if this works? I will try it & post my results. -------------------------------------------------- Monday, February 03, 2003 - 11:28 pm I have one of these HTS650 Speaker systems and have just set up my son-in-laws system for them. here is how you get the sub to work. 1. set speaker adjust to 120 crossover. (they are small speakers and i assume will not produce bass below 120 and I dont think it matters with LFE). 2. Set subwoofer mode to "mode 3" 3. Turn volume on sub up to about 3/4 4. Press CH SEL on remote repeatedly until subwoofer comes up on readout, then press LEVEL "up" until it reads +7 or or even more if needed. 5. Play dvd or whatever and adjust as needed, normally by adjusting volume on the sub. Hope this helps |
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Anonymous | It's not a matter of whether or not the sub works here... If you are able to get clean sounding bass from Sub Mode 3, then your receiver does not have this problem. If it sounds garbled in Mode 3, then you most likely have this problem. The true test is to use AVIA or a DVD with a THX optimizer and run the 6-channel speaker test. These both pass true discrete LFE when it comes to the subwoofer. It doesn't even matter what Sub Mode you are in when you run these tests... If you get "garbled" output or no output from your sub on either of these tests, your receiver is unable to accurately reproduce discrete LFE channel information, and you have the problem. My guess is that John Raymond was one of the lucky one's who did not have this problem with his unit. Hope that helps clarify. |
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OnkyoOwner | I just tested my receiver & speakers using a THX optimizer DVD I got from Best Buy. The sounds emitted from the sub sounded the same in all three modes. So, am I safe to assume my receiver does not have the LFE problem? I usually listen in mode 1 (crossover of 120)--since I am using the Onkyo speakers that came with the system and those don't deliver much base. Thanks for any help & responses. |
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Lord Alfred | "I just tested my receiver & speakers using a THX optimizer DVD I got from Best Buy. The sounds emitted from the sub sounded the same in all three modes." If you are referring to the THX Optimode first test under audio where each speaker channel is tested, then the output from the sub should be the same on all three sub modes regardless of whether you have the bug or not, provided it is receiving a Dolby Digital signal. This proves nothing. You will know if you have the problem if, during this test, the subwoofer emits a tone that is "gurgley" and much lower in volume than the other channels. It should be a nice, smooth bassy tone, not distorted in any way and close in volume to the others. |
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Anonymous | Well stated Lord Alfred!! It really IS that simple... Sorry my other posts might have been confusing the issue too much. |
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Anonymous | So it's your testing method that's distorted then. |
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Mark | I think I'm experiencing the same problem, could someone list a few dvd's with a thx optimode so i can test it? Thanks |
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Anonymous | No, the testing method is not distorted, but it sounds like you do not belong in this forum. You just have to have a little common sense to understand the issue at hand. It really depends on what forum you are in and the level of knowledge that you are dealing with. It's obvious that you have zero knowledge and probably wouldn't know the difference one way or the other. Please do us all a favor and stop posting in here. There are other bulletin boards for kids like you and your childish comments. In fact, if you post one more childish comment in this forum I will simply stop posting any updates and will not offer help to anyone else. Mark - Ice Age and Star Wars 2 are the two DVD's that I know for sure have the THX Optimode tests. |
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Mark | I tested it and I'm experiencing the same gurgling noise described out of my sub. I've had ht-r500 for about two months, does anyone know what onkyo will do about this for me and the best way to go about it? |
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Anonymous | Mark - I am keeping tabs on how Onkyo is going to respond to this. At this time, I would not take your unit in for service because I don't think they know what they are going to do about it yet. I hope you all realize that my derogatory comments in my previous post were directed to the poster who keeps trying to make fun of this issue and mock the testing procedures that I pointed out. I just don't have the time or the patience to deal with someone like that and I wish the forum moderators would just delete his/her childish comments. This is a REAL issue and a SERIOUS issue for some Onkyo owners. I will do my best to keep everyone posted on any progress. |
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NewBEE | Ok experts, I have a very newbie question about all of this. The receiver that comes with the Onkyo HT S650 is not THX certified, correct? Then why do we test the system with a THX Optimode test? Does this test just basic LFE frequency, then and really not anything related to THX? Thanks for your answers. |
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Anonymous | Doesn't matter if it's THX certified or not... All receivers labled 5.1 should be able to reproduce the .1 or LFE channel. You are correct in what you said, the THX Optimode tests the "basic" LFE frequency, there is nothing special about a THX LFE signal. If you're really concerned about the THX label, just pop in an AVIA or Sound and Vision Home Theater Setup DVD and you will see the same results if you're receiver has the problem. Another easy analogy is if you have a DVD player with a built-in Dolby Digital decoder. Just hook up the 6 analog outs on your DVD player to the Onkyo and run the same THX test. Doesn't matter if your DVD player is THX-certified or not. It will pass the LFE-channel properly. Which proves that the Dolby Digital decoder in some of these Onkyo receivers is malfunctioning. THX Optimode or not, LFE is LFE and certain Onkyo receivers cannot pass it properly. |
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Jamie | Add another receiver to the list of defects. I also tested my receiver last night using the THX optimizer and have the same problem as everybody else. I have had my receiver about a month and it is a refurb unit. I will be watching this thread closely to see how this all turns out as well. And yes, I did post a complaint in the feed back forum at Onkyo. |
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Anonymous | Can someone please explain if this defect can be tested with the Sound & Vision Setup and which test would I use? Thanks |
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| After reading all of this, I decided to go home for lunch today and do a quick test. Keep in mind, I am a newb to this stuff, so please bare with me. I understand the technical difference between "normal bass" and lfe, but I'm not sure my ears do. Here is what I did: I have my bass set at 0 and treble at +2, my sub is turned to max. I popped in the test from Star Wars 1. All channel testing sounded fine until I got to the sub. In all modes ( 1, 2, 3 ), I heard nothing! I then turned up the sub volume through the remote and set the volume to +10. Only then did I hear a faint rumble. This rumble sounded the same for all modes. I also checked a little bit of the beginning of Star Wars 2 with the ship ( didn't wait until the blow up ) and chapter 28. I don't know if it is because my bass is set to 0, but all I heard when the ships fly by in mode 3 is about 2-3 seconds of rumble. It didn't sound distorted, gargley or like a hiccup. Does this sound like I have this problem? Like I said, I'm a newb and I am use to using Mode 1. |
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Bernie Lomax | You guys should consider the fact that the sub that comes with the HTS 650 just might not be able to reproduce the LFE accurately. A thorough test should include testing the HTS 650 receiver with a different sub (with a larger driver). And even testing the HTS 650 sub with a different (non-Onkyo) 5.1 receiver. |
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Anonymous | Pezcore - From what you explain, it sounds like you don't have this issue. If the bass didn't sound garbled then you most likely aren't infected. Do you have 6-channel analog outs on your DVD player? If so, hook those guys up and run the same test while in Multichannel mode on the receiver. If you're ears aren't used to this stuff that will prove it definitively for you IF you have the problem. The difference is drastic. Bernie - great point, but I can get LFE effects on the Onkyo sub using my DVD players DD converter via the 6-channel analog connection. And I did test this with Onkyo's sub, a Sony SAWM40, and a JBL PB12 and they are all the same - distorted LFE when utilizing the Onkyo's DD decoder. I've also tried it connected via Optical 1, Optical 2, and Coax with all the same results. It is indeed a problem with the signal sent from the receiver. |
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Pezcore | For anonymous right after my post: Thanks for your help. I hate to ask another stupid question, but, what exactly constitutes garbling? Like I said, I get a very low rumble while doing the THX test from Star Wars 1 while in all modes. This was after jacking up the sub volume to +10. I thought the sub test should sound close in volume as the other speakers during the test. I'm I wrong? |
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Anonymous | Pezcore - I don't think any serious question is stupid... It's just the childish posts in this forum that were getting to me. It looks like all that's over now. The "rumbling" you get from the subwoofer should be approximately the same volume as the rest of the other speakers as it goes through the 6-channel test. That is, if you have each speaker set to 0 (or all set to +6) - as long as they're all the same. The only definite way I can offer for you to be sure is to hook up the analog 6-channel out from your DVD player to your receiver (if you have those), OR go over to a buddies house and run the same THX test to see what it sounds like on another receiver. |
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Pezcore | Well, I went home last night, after I stopped by Circuit City, and ran some more tests. I've spoken with a couple friends who have extensive knowledge in this matter, and I don't think I have the issue everyone is talking about. While the THX test sounded louder with the sub at CC, I'm still getting a low rumble at home. When I was doing the tests, though, my sub was at 0, left/right set at +1, center at +3 and my surrounds at +3. I went back to AOTC scenes, and could only determine minor differences in the different modes. Mode 1 had the most "oomph" and Mode 3 was just a little less. It was deep, knocking stuff off walls deep, just not as a prolonged rumble like Mode 1. I had a friend of mine go to these sites that explained the problem better than I could, and I was told from what I was explaining to them, that everything was fine. I think I just got a bad case of hysteria. I read all of this stuff, and when I went home, I think I was listening and "finding" what I thought to be problems that were not really there. Thanks for everyones help from this board (Anonymous). It's nice to have a place to go when something like this happens. |
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tim | Let me ge this straight...this is not a problem when running DTS....right? |
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Pezcore | From what I've been reading, people have not been having a problem with the DTS. Also, I'm going to bother anonymous or anyone one more time. Just to put my mind at ease, as long as I'm getting the rumble from my sub during the THX test, this means I am getting the low frequency signal? I guess I'm still worried because I am relatively new to this stuff. I'm not sure exactly what the .1 is suppose to sound like. From what I've read, it seems that it is an added "boost" to the sound. I'm getting this in all modes. I guess I'll shut up and stop sounding like a whining b**ch. Thanks again everyone. |
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Anonymous | I was right about to go out today and by the Onkyo 650. But after reading all these posts I am having second thoughts. Those of you who are having these problems whould you still recommend this product? I know there has been debate over the 650 and Kenwood's 505. Is the 505 maybe a better option at this point, and does it have the same problem? Thanks |
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Anonymous | Does anyone know exactly what the THX Optimizer on StarWars AOTC puts out for the sub? I am getting a low, burbing, gurgling sound like several others, but with the Optimizer I get it on all sub modes, not just 3. That seems to make sense if the Optimzer is just putting out LFE to the sub, but I can't seem to get that confirmed. I don't have the test disks to check it further. BTW, mine also seems, by very subjective "listen to it" testing to work correctly in DTS and the problem is in DD5.1 (at least I think so....) Thanks for any help... |
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Lord Alfred | "I went back to AOTC scenes, and could only determine minor differences in the different modes. Mode 1 had the most "oomph" and Mode 3 was just a little less" Then you definately don't have the problem. It is OBVIOUS when you switch to mode 3 on AOTC and watch the ship scenes in the intro. There is no substaned bass at all, just short little bursts. "I am getting a low, burbing, gurgling sound like several others" Then you have the problem. The THX test puts out a stand-alone LFE signal, which your receiver is not correctly outputting to the sub. "Just to put my mind at ease, as long as I'm getting the rumble from my sub during the THX test, this means I am getting the low frequency signal?" DTS works fine. The problem does not prevent you from getting sub-output on the THX test, but the output will be extremely quiet compared to the other speakers and "gurgley". |
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Pezcore | Lord Alfred: Yes, I'm getting the rumble, but it is very low compared to the other channels. When I use the test provided on the receiver, all channels are of equal volume, on all modes. When I use the THX, the rumble of the sub is very low and faint, but it is there and it doesn't sound like a burb or garbly. It is a long steady rumble. It sounds just like when I use the rec. test, just a lot lower. Again, I'm sorry for repeating myself over and over. I'm just trying to make sure I explain myself to the fullest to ensure I do not have the problem. |
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aww crap | put it this way .. like it or not most if not all of these units are defective, simple as that. I believe there's a 2 year warranty (new from authorized dealer) and they should be addressing the issue and fixing these units. If everyone complains to Onkyo then something will get done. Don't live in denial, send Onkyo an email. I know .. it sucks. I was very happy with my unit until I tried the THX optimizer test from the TRON Special Edition DVD. When it tested the sub in Mode 3, a few blurbs and gurgles is all I heard, no steady sub-stream sound. This is still a great system but could really kick azz with this problem fixed. |
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Anonymous | i just sent them a long email of basically saying how unproffessional it is, to admit that there is a problem, even with all the emails and complaints. they will probably ssend me a bull**** answer. but ill post up whatever they say, whenver i get it. |
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Anonymous | I love the 650. I had no idea there was a problem until I read about it. Mode 3 sounded weak, but Mode 1 was incredible for a $450 system. Would I buy one today with the LFE problem? No. It is advertized as a 5.1 system and, in DD, only decodes the "5" and not the ".1". That said, I would not buy the Kenwood either. When I listened to each system, the kenwoods and Sonys sounded incredibly weak. I was ready to do without until I heard the the sound of the Onkyo, lfe or not. If I were buying today, I would save up some more to get separate components. |
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Anonymous | The question is whether Onkyo knew about this before they released these units... I find it really hard to believe that they would knowingly put out a system that was incapable of producing the LFE, especially with how popular it is to calibrate sound systems. BUT, wouldn't you think they would test all of this stuff before they released a product?? If it is indeed the Dolby Digital decoder that's malfunctioning, don't you think Dolby Labs would have stringent guidelines on what decoders are labled "DD 5.1"?? I can't wait to hear Onkyo's response on this. |
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Anonymous | Does anyone know if the Onkyo receivers that have the LFE problem possess a certain range of serial numbers or have a similar manufacture/production date?? Maybe we can find a pattern here. |
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Grimace | Whether or not Onkyo knew about the defect before distribution or whether or not their testing procedures are sound doesn't matter anymore. That's all water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. The question at hand now is, "What is Onkyo going to do about the problem now that the defect is out in the open?" They must issue and announce a product recall/replacement for everyone who purchased the HTS650, and they better do it fast. It's up to them to figure out which production set has the defect. (can you say "class-action lawsuit") |
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po | I agree with you Grimace. I know several people that have this problem and Onkyo should do something about this. |
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Onkyo Repairman | As an update... Onkyo has "admitted" there is a problem with some units. They believe they have the problem limited to a certain production run during a certain time frame. They are still working on a resolution to fix the defective units. Please keep emailing Onkyo and calling them. Basically keep bugging them until they offer a resolution. I also agree with Grimace... if they don't step up to the plate soon and offer a resolution, we need to gather all of the people with infected units from all of the other forums. Then we can go to the appropriate authorities (BBB or FTC) and get some real power behind the issue. Labeling a receiver Dolby 5.1 when it's really Dolby 5.0 or Dolby 5 is clearly false advertising. I wonder what Dolby would say about that? Let's hope Onkyo comes up with something soon so we don't have to take this to the next level. |
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OnkyoOwner | Onkyo Repairman- I have just emailed Onkyo concerning this LFE problem. Just curious as to where Onkyo has "admitted" the problem. Is it on a public website? Personal communication? Thanks! |
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Onkyo Repairman | Check the link to the other forum in the 9th or 10th post in this thread... The owner of that forum has been in touch with Onkyo and they have verified the problem and are working on a solution. I imagine once they have a resolution, we will all be able to take our units into the service center for repair. |
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po | Whoever responded to Grimace right below Grimace's post was most assuredly not me, the orignal "po". |
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Pietaster | Po: Since that was not you posting, do you wonder at all how many people who claim to have this problem, really do? I'm not saying it isn't an issue, especially since Onkyo claims there is a problem. I know I freaked out when I first read about all of this, and did test after test to see if I have the bug. Even though I've been reassured over and over, it still sits in the back of my mind. I have just been wondering if some Onkyo hater didn't come on these sites and "plant" this lfe bug to cause some mass hysteria. Just food for thought. |
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AV-ophile | Pietaster, I can assure you this is not some "plant" by an onkyo hater. Real simple test. Run the THX audio test using either the optical or coax output of your dvd player to the receiver. Then run the same test using the dvd player's 6 channel analog outputs to the receivers multichannel inputs. If you don't have the problem, the subwoofer test will sound identical on both. If you have the problem you will hear the sub correctly from the multichannel, but will hear either nothing at all, or a gurgling noise from the coax/optical. Trust me the issue is real. I'm sitting on a receiver with the problem as we speak. |
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Onkyo believer | Here is a quote from the "other" website. This guy has a contact at Onkyo and is very reliable. "Onkyo now knows that there is a problem and they are working on it. At this point they are finding it is not on all units being shipped and it may only be on a specific run limited to ONE MONTH but until they know for sure they can't say anything. They don't have a serial number range on this yet and those that have sent in their serial numbers are helping them track it down. However, they will still have to find out what is causing the problem before they can fix it. That may be a week or more. In the meantime make sure you buy from a dealer that will let you return the unit on a free look or if it is defective. For those that have the units that have passed any free look period I can assure you Onkyo will fix the problem. If it can't be fixed I am sure they will replace it with a unit that does not have the problem. You simply have to be patient until they figure out what is going on." Just have PATIENCE people and enjoy Mode 1!! |
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OnkyoOwner | Thanks for the information Onkyo Believer. I think I may have the LFE problem, but would never have known about it, since I had not used sub mode 3 to listen to any dvd's. I really do not know under what conditions I would ever want to use mode 3. I purchased my HT-S650 from Vanns.com. I decided to email them to see if they had heard of this problem. Got a very prompt response from a manager who said he was not aware of any complaints to them, but that he would contact their Onkyo rep about this & will keep me posted. Still have not received a reply from my email to Onkyo,although I suspect they are being bombarded with complaints. I am fairly certain Onkyo will come through on this once they start hearing from their distributors. |
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Onkyo Repairman | OnkyoOwner - If you have this problem, you have it in all sub modes, not just mode 3. (You can switch to mode 3 to check to see if you have this problem though.) The bass will be distorted and unusual in mode 3 if you do, but you still should check using a THX optimizer (or AVIA) to be sure. When the 6-channel speaker test in the THX Optimizer gets to your subwoofer, if you hear garbled bass (regardless of the mode) you have this problem. If you hear nice, clean bass output, you do not have this problem. If you do have the problem, what is happening is that the Onkyo receiver is passing bad discrete LFE-channel info. Once again, this is regardless of which sub mode you are using. Even in sub mode 1 when most of your bass sounds good, an infected unit will also pass garbled LFE-channel info to your subwoofer during scenes with discrete LFE encoded onto the DVD. The best example of this is Star Wars 2 ATOC in the very beginning when the ship flies over. If this doesn't sound right, it is because the normal bass is being interrupted by the garbled LFE channel. Normal bass and discrete LFE are 2 completely different things as someone mentioned earlier in this post. Unfortunately, that is why the issue is so confusing. The true final test is THX Optimizer as many have stated. |
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AOTC-confused | First, on the THX test I get volume on the subwoofer but it is much lower than the rest. As to hiccup or gurgles it is hard to tell but it doesn't sound quite right. When watching the infamous opening of AOTC with the ships overhead in mode 3 I do not get any distortion. Rather I get some short powerful bursts in limited duration. In mode 1 I get those same bursts but with the bass creating a more continous rumble. Again, nothing is distorted in 3 but without knowing what it should sound like I don't know if I have the problem. My guess is that I do because it seems odd that the LFE would produce large bursts without a gradual build up of sound. |
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Anonymous | AOTC-Confused Please read the above posts. The easiest way to tell if you have the problem is if your dvd player has a 6 channel out then hook that up to the receiver. Set the receiver to multich mode and set the subwoofer mode to 3. Yes, mode 3. Mode 3 sends only the LFE signal to the sub. Modes 1 and 2 send bass from the left/right channels also. We don't need this for this test. Run the THX test. If it sounds the same when it hits the sub using the multich input as it does using either coax or optical, then you don't have the problem. If it sounds different or doesnt sound at all, then you do. I SUGGEST EVERYONE DO THIS IF YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT EXACTLY LFE IS OR DOES AND YOU WANT TO KNOW IF YOU HAVE THE PROBLEM. I suspect a lot of people don't think they have the problem simply because they don't know what the symptoms are or how to look for them. And no the ship should not sound like short bursts. It sounds like a smooth deep rumble. But again, the ships noise in AOTC is not the best way to see if you have the problem. Do what I said above. |
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Pietaster | Anonymous above: The more I read these forums, the more perplexed I become. I don't have a decoder on my dvd player, so AOTC is my only test. I'm getting the same sound as AOTC confused.In mode 3, I get about 2-3 seconds of rumble when the ship flys by right after the credits roll up. It's not gradual. As soon as the ship comes into view, the rumble starts loud, then stops. The only other test I can think of doing, is test the difference in mode 3 between DTS and Dolby in Minority Report. Would this be a good alternative test? Thanks in advance for your help. |
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Pietaster | To add to my message above, the rumble of the ship is not short consecutive bursts. It is a smooth loud rumble, but it is not gradual, and it lasts only a short time. This whole mess is driving me crazy. I keep going back in forth, I have the problem, I don't have the problem. I know I have no distortion, and I just don't know what the garbled sound that everyone keeps refering to sounds like. |
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Onkyo Repairman | AOTC Confused and Pietaster - the best thing I can do for now is try to describe what the THX 6-channel test sounds like on my infected unit. When it gets to the subwoofer, the sound is MUCH lower than the rest of the speakers (not just in pitch, but in volume also). An infected unit will sound like a beating heart. Like a really low rumble with tick-tick, tick-tick in the background. Using the 6-channel outs on my DVD player and therefore utilizing it's decoder, this is corrected and the THX test puts out clean sound from the subwoofer that is consistent and very close in volume to the rest of the speakers (the pitch is still much lower, but the volume is almost equal). You just don't hear the distortion from the subwoofer, because it's passing the LFE-channel properly. If I didn't have the ability to test this using my DVD players decoder, it would be difficult to notice. But once you hear how it is supposed to sound, it is night and day. The best way I can describe it is a "very faint rumbling with a ticking in the background." Hope that helps. |
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the infected one | The way I'd describe the infected unit's LFE bass sound: Through the THX Optimizer Test .. Sounds like a heart palpitating if you were to listen through a stethiscope .. very faint beats, uneven .. not like the white noise stream sounds emitting through the other speakers. I think the gurgle/burp analogy is confusing .. hope this helps .. I do believe I am an "infected one" |
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AV-ophile | Ok, I'll try and describe it a little better and simpler. If you get the same type of white noise from the sub as you do from the other speakers during the THX test, then you're ok. If you do NOT get the same white noise but just get a series of ticks, thumps or nothing at all then you have the problem. Basically listen for a smooth white noise EXACTLY like the other speakers, just a lower pitch. If you do not get this then you have the problem. |
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aotc-confused | Unfortunately, my DVD Player doesn not have 6 channel out.. However, the way Onkyo Repairman described it as a beating heart is very similar to what I hear during the THX test... Sooooo it seems that I do have the problem. I've had my unit for about a month. Purchased it at CC. Should I sit back and wait until Onkyo comes up with a recall or try to return it? Or should I contact Onkyo directly and bypass CC? You still get a long of bang for your buck and other than this glitch I am very happy with this receiver. |
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Anonymous | aotc-confused do not wait for a recall. It will probably not happen. If you are within your return period at CC then go that route. See if they will let you exchange it for one without the problem. If you get nowhere with them then call Onkyo. And yes it is an outstanding system!!! Nothing else in its price range comes close. |
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Cautious Buyer | I'm thinking about picking up a HT-S650 from soundcity.com. They are backorder for 4 weeks. Is it safe to assume that I will get a newer receiver that will work properly without the LFE channel issues? Or should I shave my self some trouble and get another receiver? |
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OnkyoOwner | To Av-ophile: Thank you! Your explanation of what the sound emitting from the subwoofer should sound like during the THX optimizer test makes it very clear. I now know I have the LFE problem beacuse I hear a heartbeat-like sound coming from the sub---NOT white noise. I was not expecting to hear white noise at all from the sub, since when I did the regular audio test using the Onkyo remote, I heard white noise fom all speakers and clear bass from the sub---so was expecting a similar type low frequency sound. |
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AV-ophile | OnkyoOwner, Good god why didn't I think of that!!!!!!!! YES!!! When you run the THX test you should hear a noise similar to when you run the "test" using the Onkyo remote!!!!!!!!!! White noise but at a lower frequency than the other speakers!!!! The THX test will actually be a lower frequency than the Onkyo internal test but it should be the same type of sound. Smooth low sound. The key being smooth. I'm jumping up and down thinking why didn't I think of that as the way to test it!!!!!!! |
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the infected one | hehe .. it's to damn obvious! smooth is the key here .. not blippity blip blip blop .. more like AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH |
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Pietaster | Thanks to everyone above for the descriptions. I took a half day yesterday and went home and ran more tests. The sounds you guys described hit the nail on the proverbial head. I have the problem. I think I always knew I had it, I just didn't want to believe it. I lucked out though. I called CC and talked to the sales guy. He said I should wait until they had a range of serial numbers to make sure I didn't get another bad one. I told him I knew the floor model was ok from tests I ran last week when I went by. He said come on down and switch them out. In an hour, I was home watching the scenes of AOTC over and over again. My God, you people were not kidding on the difference. I can't remember who said it, but they said what they thought was happening was only the peak of the LFE was getting through. This is so true. I think I'm going to have to re watch all those movies over again to see what I missed. I hope all this gets resolved for everyone else one these boards. Thanks to everyone on here for all the advice and information. You guys rock! |
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david | i called onkyo about the problem and they told me they were fully aware of it and then informed me that i could do nothin, but wait for them to post about a solution in the faq section on their website. i think is pretty shadey of them to just throw their customers to a solution that is non-existant. this is the 3rd reciever i have from the ht-s650 returned it twice already, and its still has no "lfe" channel. my 30 day exchange is about to end in a few days, and im pretty damn sure onkyo is has no intentions of halting the defective recievers from shipping out. since this is already reciever number 3, and its defective.. my patience is low, i will try to exchange and get reciever number 4. if that ones defective i will ask the local retailer to extend my 30 day exchange policy, until onkyo decides to remedy the problem rather then continue issuing defective recievers. |
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OnkyoOwner | David- Onkyo is definitely working on a fix for this problem. Onkyo will be contacting people once they are certain of the solution to fix the LFE bug. Meanwhile you can check out this link http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB71&Number=357548&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 |
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Anonymous | now im afraid to upgrade the speakers, i was going to use this reciever and change all the speakers to a much higher end, but now im afraid the ill-designed reciever would only damage the speakers more then use them, if the speaker doesnt even have proper channels, how can i be sure that it wont damage the speakers i plan to use with it. im really upset. |
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Anonymous | Do what I did. Took it back for a full refund and purchased a Kenwood. Make: Kenwood Usa Model: HTB-505 Description: Kenwood HTB-505 Home Theater System Best Price: 304.99 A full listing of who sells this item is available at http://StreetPrices.com/Electronics/sortdetailbylowprice/SP801768.html Good luck with your bargain hunting! |
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Anonymous | theres a scene in lotr that uses lfe when gandolf starts chanting at the human whe he is about to pick up the ring in the gathering at the end of disc one. it lets a faint blurp for a split second and nothign else, man, i literally touched the bottom of the sub and no vibration, just that one blurp. i dont know what i shoud do, ive already returned this system 3 times, and all three times, they were the same defect, i dont know if i should just keep it, and leave it at mode 1 or return it for the kenwood 505. its a big hassle trying to locate all the wires and packaging since ive been using better 16 gauge ar/monster speaker wires and ar sub cables, finding the stock wires might be a pain |
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Anonymous | I wouldn't return it .. buying the Kenwood 505 is a MAJOR downgrade. Whoever is doing this is in "panic mode" and will surely regret it down the line. Even with the LFE bug, the HTS-650 blows away the Kenwood 505. Like OnkyoOwner stated, Onkyo is aware of the issue and plans to fix/replace these units. Good things always come to those who wait .. patience is the key |
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meek | well, im gonna exchange mine, if the reciever is still faulty, then im gonna get a full refund and build a system ground up starting with a pioneer reciever. owning a home theatre reciever that can not properly decode dd 5.1 makes it not even worth having, the lfe bug actually destroys the recievers integrity, if it were 100 dollars on sale, i wouldnt even pay that for it(id rather put the 100 dollars towards a working reciever), because of the bug, ill label it as a trash product, not worth more to me then a 2 channel stereo reciever. if youre content with having a home theatre reciever that actually cant decode home theatre channels, with no gaurantee of a fix, then im happy for you, theres a fine line between patience and denial, personally exchanging my reicever for another that has the same problem is more then enough for me to find a different company with better Quality Control. the rest of you can wait to send it in to get it repaired in the future. i personally would rather get something brand new that does what its supposed to do. |
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Anonymous | I don't understand why Onkyo is still selling those defective units.........That makes me wonder if they really want to replace all non-working receivers.......or/and they want to take advantage of many costumers that won't be aware of the problem In this kind of situations, companies issue a recall and all units are taken off the stores........ |
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OnkyoOwner | I read on another thread in this forum that the Onkyo receivers affected with the LFE bug were all manufactured before June 30th,2002. Can anyone confirm this? How do I find out when my Onkyo receiver was produced? I bought it in mid-Sept, but cannot find a production date on the receiver. Also, I do have the LFE bug based on the THX optimizer test and will wait until Onkyo resolves this problem. I know Onkyo is currently working on the fix based on info from another HT forum. I am very pleased with this HT system otherwise and certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone downgrade to another system. Thanks for any help |
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Anonymous | i got one on the 25th of february and it has the lfe bug, if that helps, models produced right now are still defective. |
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Anonymous | what is the phone number for the onkyo costumer service so i can call them? |
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| The number for onkyo customer service is 1-800-229-1687. When I called about this problem, it sounded like they were sick of hearing about his issue and just told me the enginners were working on it and the news would be posted at www.onkyousa.com. Sounds like a bunch of crap to me. So basically lets keep calling until they have no choice but to fix it. |
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Anonymous | thanks ryan, i am going to call them tomorrow morning. what exactly did you tell them? |
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Anonymous | This is a wonderful receiver mated to very competent speakers and a terrific subwoofer. It's relatively easy to set up, and sounds terrific over all. Unfortunately, some of these receivers seem to have a bug such that the Dolby Digital Low Frequency Effects channel (the ".1" of "5.1") is not output to the subwoofer. You might not notice because in the usual subwoofer mode, bass from the other channels is fed to the subwoofer, and sounds satisfactory if you don't know any better. But if you listen to the ship passing overhead in Attack of the Clones on one of the affected units after hearing it on a good Dolby 5.1 system, you'll know immediately that something's messed up. If you have not heard the scene on a system that outputs proper LFE, you might not notice. Given that the system should probably sell for $800-1000 with 5.1 sound, you may decide that $500 for 5.0 is OK. Or you may get one without the bug. Who knows? I exchanged mine and got a second one with the bug. This system should be sold as Dolby 5.0 and not 5.1 because it isn't. |
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Ryan | I told her that I wasn't getting a DD .1 channel from my HT-R500, and she stopped me short like she'd heard it all before and just said that the "engineers were working on it". |
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Pissed off customer | Yet another customer with the same LFE problem. I went to C.C. and told them the problem... the home audio saleman told me that I should never go into mode 3 anyways... that really pissed me off. I then bought an open box HT650 after the sales guy promised me it would work since the system used to be one of the workers there. I took it home and had the same problem. I took it back that night and returned my second unit. I then bought the Speakers seperatly and will purchase the Harman avr 225 with price match for $360. I'm very pissed off cause my HT system will end up costing me $660 instead of the $500 I only planned to spend.... oh well.... I'd rather pay an extra $160 for a better quality reciever. |
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BAD CC | i do not like circuit city, i went to purchase the onkyo htb there and returned it 3 times, with all the recievers defective, so i got a refund, and went window shopping and researching, and saw a panasonic reciever at frys for 100 dollars cheaper, and i went to cc and asaked if theyll price match it, with the 100 percent and extra 10 percent, the manager told me no and take my business to frys, he didnt want to help me, i asked him, if he was denying me service that was posted on the price match policy, and he said yes, and to take my business elasewhere, not allowed to purchase the new reciver there with any of their policies. you can be sure, im contacting the district manager and will me contacting consumer reports for my local news station. |
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Used to be pissed off customer | Circuit City just hooked me up. I had two of the onkyo receivers that were defective and took both back to Circuit city for a full refund. I purchased the Onkyo Speakers by themselves since I think they are a great buy even for $300. I then went home and looked at a ton of receivers that would work well with the Onkyo 500 speakers. I decided on HK avr225. I found it HK 225 for $348 on Crazy eddie website. I then went up to the manager at the C.C. and told him I wanted a price match. As I prepared myself for him to tell me that they don't accept internet offers, he said "Sure...". I got a 3 year warranty and no intrest for 3 months on a $500 receiver for under $400. C.C. will hook you up if you go about thing the right way. I'm a very happy Circuit city customer. Good luck to all who have the Onkyo LFE problem receiver.... hope everything works out for you. |
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Zach | Circuit city is selling the 650 again, after not stocking them for a little while (as far as I can tell) -- any idea whether or not the issue has been resolved? |
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Anonymous | The issue has been identified .. there will be a posting on Onkyousa.com to alert Service Centers of the fix. |
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Anonymous | the guy at circuit city thought i was off my rocker when i told him the onkyo recievers were defective, actually he told me i was the first to return it because of that, and basically implying that something was wrong with me and not the reciever, it got ugly, this has got to be the worst shopping experiece ive ever had, thanks to the lovely folks at Circuit City |
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Anonymous | i was also told that they would post on their site in a few days.....its been a week now, and still nothing. do you know when they will post? |
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Anonymous | these things take time .. From what I understand, there was a defective batch of IC chipsets. The replacement parts come from Japan and Onkyo probably wants to be sure there are enough to go around before they post a Tech bulletin and/or mail out a recall to registered users. Onkyo prides itself on customer service and they don't want to release info too soon or half-azzed. |
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Ray | About 35 days ago, I got my HTS 650 at Circuit City for $439 after asking the salesman to talk to his manage to see what he could do with the price. Great System and Great Value. I was not happy, after I found out with the THX test that my system too has the LFE bug. However, on the second thought, it is a great system at a great price and I use the system mostly to listen to music and I can wait for Onkyo's resolution to this problem. I think for a major company like Onkyo, they just cannot afford to have bad press on their products, not to mention possible class law suit if unresolved. I just e-mailed to Onkyo my problem along with the serial number and date and place of purchase and then I sit back and enjoy my system on this sunny morning in California. I may also want to add a comment about customer services in general. Customer services from most call centers nowaday are not that great. I have dealt with Dell, Gateway, Dazzle,Sony, Verizon DSL (I waited 1 hour and 30 minutes on phone yestersday for Verzion), Toshiba, Sears, GE, ......and yes even Mercedes, but the reality is that most customer services are not that good. So you just work with the various channels (including small claims court if needed) to get your issue resolved somehow and then learn to relax and enjoy what you have. The bottomline is that you just try to resolve the problem methodologically but NOT emotionally and then Sit back enjoy what you already have. This will not be the last defective merchandise you purchase in your lifetime. |
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Anonymous | Saw this on another forum, some of you may want to check it out. St. Patricks Day sale from Onkyo. They are offering the TXSR600 receiver with SKS-HT500 speakers for $499 and free shipping. That would normally be an $850 package. Here is the link. St. Patrick's Day Sale: http://www.shoponkyo.com/stpats.cfm Main site : http://www.shoponkyo.com |
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Ray | This may be old news to some of you. I spoke to the Onkyo supports this morning. They acknowledged that there is a problem with one of the IC chips causing the LFE problem. Good IC chips are shipping from Japan to US now. Should be available in 2-3 weeks. Look for the announcement in Onkyo FAQ. Onkyo authorized repair shop will replace the chip for the unit. Since I listen to mostly music, I am pretty happy with the system. After the LFE problem is fixed, I will be even happier. I know it's also a hassle to unhook the unit and leave it in the the repair shop for a day or two. |
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Anonymous | Not necessarily LFE issue. I don't even have a subwoofer, yet. I just got my SR500 from an ebay auction, hooked it up to replace old SR515ProII. The problem is that I have to crank the volume real high (50-60) to get the same sound I had with 20-25% volume on the 515. Plus, no low frequency. I tried this with Digital (DD and DTS), Analog (Surround, CD) etc... Sub is switched to off so I assume crossover frequency is not relevant here. Any idea of the problem. Sorry if this is the wrong place to post but this seemed to right place to talk about low frequency. |
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Bill | I can confirm the message from "ray" above. I talked to Onkyo service this morning. When I said I had the LFE problem, they knew right away what I was referring to. They said info would be put on their web site (onkyousa.com)in the FAQ within a week or two. |
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| Whoa! I'm sure glad I decided to check the reviews on circuit city's site. I just put this system(ONKYO HTS650)on lay-away a couple of weeks ago(on sale for $499.00 at CC) after months of researching. My decision was based on all of the positive reviews i'd read, along with hearing the system in person. Now that I'm aware of the LFE problem, I'm back to square one. I agree with some of the other posts-even if it's still a good deal, I'm paying for 5.1 and that's I should get. I'm glad I found this forum and would like to thank you guys who take the time to share such important information. Any suggestions on what I should do? I just bought a 56" hdtv and i'm dying to hook up the surround! Thanks in advance. |
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OnkyoOwner | Twin688- Onkyo USA is running a great sale for St. Patty's Day You can get the Onkyo TXSR600 receiver with SKS-HT500 speakers for $499 and free shipping. That would normally be an $850 package. Here is the link. The 600 receiver is uch better thena the 500 and does not have the LFE problem http://www.shoponkyo.com/stpats.cfm Main site : http://www.shoponkyo.com |
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TL | TWIN I was very unhappy with my whole Onkyo experience. I got the 650 system and had the bug. I returned it and got an open box that was suppose to work.... but it to had the bug. Other forums have had people complaining about the TXSR600 reciever from Onkyo.... since its refurbished with there $499 deal. Some people said the 600 receiver had defects with speakers among other problems. This is what I would suggest if you can afford it. Buy the SKS-ST500 speakers for $300 at Circuit city. Then get onto Crazy Eddie website and print out their price for the Harmon Kardon AVR 225 receiver. I took the print out to C.C. and they price matched. I ended up getting the Harmon Kardon AVR 225 for $350. I put the whole purchase on my C.C. card and got no interest for a year. I'll probably pay it off in a couple of months.... but at least I can split a couple pay checks up without putting the pruchase on my Visa. HK AVR 225 is a great receiver. Hope it helps Travis |
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Anonymous | It seems like most if not all of the people who posted in this thread have a receiver with the LFE problem. I tested my HT-R500 extensively tonight, and I can confirm that my receiver DOES NOT have the LFE problem. I tested my receiver in Subwoofer Mode 3 using Avia and AOTC, and I compared the sound using the coaxial digital and 6-channel inputs from my DVD player (Panasonic RP-82). The bass is a little louder when using the 6-channel inputs vs. coaxial digital, but this just means the DVD player mixes the output to the subwoofer a little higher than the receiver. I wanted to make the point that this doesn't affect ALL receivers of this model. |
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Just Bought mine | Just got off the phone with Onkyo customer support. They said they now have the fix and instructed me to take my reciever to an authorized service center to get it repaired. I think it was definitely worth the money and a little hassle taking it in to get it fixed. I'll let you know if they were able to fix it!! |
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Anonymous | Where did they say was an authorized service center? Circuit City maybe? thats where i got mine from... |
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meek | anmy CC will not honor anything on the web, even print outs, i recall the manager there sternly forbidding any price matching policies with online stores. |
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Authorized Service Center | For an Authorized Service center go to the Onkyo website http://www.onkyousa.com and click on the link for dealer and service locator (at the top in the light blue bar). |
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tl | Crazy eddie is not only and online store.... but one of there biggest competitors on the east coast. As long as the Online store has an actual store that they sell out of they will take it. |
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Anonymous | so when are the fixed units supposed to be in the stores. Becasue I am about to go buy the Kenwood 505 system unless the bug free 650 is in stores now |
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meek | maybe your store is lenient, but my local CC has something like fine print says "authorized local dealer" or something. there isnt any crazy eddies down here  |
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OnkyoOwner | Please be aware that Crazy Eddies is not an authorized Onkyo dealer, so you may not get any repairs done at Onkyo's cost if you get a defective system. Go to OnkyoUSA.com for a list of authorized dealers |
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Anonymous | Just got off the phone with Onkyo Tech Support. They instructed me to take the unit into an authorized service center. Onkyo will then ship the part to the service center within 24 hours. Hoping for a fast turnaround. We'll see. |
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| I saw today in the newspaper that the HT650 is on closeout sale at CC for $500 instead of $550. Now, I am not a native English speaker, so please help me here: what does "closeout sale" mean? Is it some kind of liquidation? Could it mean that they are getting rid of their current stocks of the HT650? Thanks |
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Anonymous | Econman-- I have been in this country for over 25 years and I still understand what does "closeout sales" mean. In my area, there is a furniture store which has been advertised for closeout sales for the last 10 years. In your case, just ask want to ask the CC salesman. |
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Anonymous | I bought the system about a month ago, and I was using Sub 1, I noticed that Sub 3 didn't really do anything, but, i thought it was the DVD i was playing. I read the reviews on CC, and now, I see the problem. I get the same heartbeat sound. I am going back to CC with the unit to see if a second one does the same thing. One aside, being new at this, this may be a dumb question, but, i can't seem to get DTS on the onkyo. I get DD on it though, and my DVD player has a DD and DTS decoder (Denon 900), and I am using an optical cable, and I am playing LOTR which is DTS. I am going to borrow someone else's DVD player and I am going to try it out. any other suggestions? |
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meek | when you play lotr, make sure you go to the audio setup on the movie menu screen, and pick dts, dd and dts are two different tracks, the default will always be dd, you can only get dts if you tell the dvd player to play the dts track on the dvd ie going to the title screen audio setup and picking dts, then play the movie. |
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Anonymous | do the service centers fix the problem for free? or do you ahve to pay |
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clown vomit | it's free .. and a 1-5 day turnaround for repair |
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Lew | I bought this set in June of last year. I've been real happy with it, then I came across this forum and heard about this bug. I knew I had been using it in mode 1 this whole time. So I spent a good bit of today testing it out and can only come to the conclusion that mine doesn't have the problem. Has it been confirmed that some don't have this bug? All my tests were done in mode 3. I tested with Avia and get a low rumble in the sub during the LFE identification. I also get the rumble during THX Optimizer and Attack Of The Clones sounds fine to me. I even ran just the sub channel from my DVD player w/ onboard decoder and compared that to what I get when the Onkyo decodes a dolby digital signal and the sub sounded the same to me. But I'm not sure I've been testing correctly and can tell for sure that I have the problem or not. I want to know, so I can get the fix if it's needed. |
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Anonymous | I dropped the unit with a customer service rep at Circuit City on Saturday. They don't do the repairs on the premises, and it won't be picked up until Tuesday. They told me the repair service will call me in 7-10 days. Anxious to see if they get the fix right. I will let everyone know when I get it back if it works. Bit of a hassle disconnecting everything and setting my Satellite and VCR up the way they used to be. Didn't even bother reconnecting the DVD. But if I get the LFE channel to work right, it should be worth it. |
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| I just bought the HT-S650 from CC last night. I had a long talk with the salesperson. They told me they have not had a lot of returns at that store, maybe one or two, but that they were aware that there may be a problem. I also called ONKYO cst service number and was told that they have advised any retailer selling these units that if a cst comes back and does have the problem, that they will pick up the cost of the fix, no charge to the cst. I will be setting my system up today or tomorrow and will keep my fingers crossed... |
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Anonymous | Just traded in my receiver from the HT-S650. New one works fine, and sounds great. Had I not read this BB, I may have never realized the LFE problem. I went to CC, having bought the unit about 35 days ago, explained the problem, showed them the postings on their own site, and they gave me a new receiver. said that i didn't need to re-pack and return the whole system and they didn't give me a hard time. Just hooked up the new unit, and it works properly. ran the THX optimizer, and played some scenes from the matrix in Sub3, and sounds great. I suggest giving the company a chance to do the right thing. Also, thanks to meek for explaining how to get to the dts. |
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Anonymous | Just purchased a new HT-S650 over the weekend (03/16) from CC in the San Francisco Bay Area. I confirmed that it DOES NOT have the LEF bug using both the Avia LFE test and the THX optimizer test. The CC bar code sticker on the box has a date of 03/13/03. I did notice that during both the Avia LFE and the THX optimizer test, in Subwoofer = Off mode, I still hear sound coming from my subwoofer, though not as loud as in Subwoofer mode 1, 2, and 3. Anyone notice this? Thanks. |
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Lew | Mine, which seems to be ok, also has sound from the sub in off mode. Strange thing is that I bought mine in June '02. So did they first not have the problem and somewhere between then and now, they changed something? Good that they are starting to put good ones into the stores now. |
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Anonymous | Someone on another forum mentioned that Onkyo had a few months (10/02-02/03) of production runs using bad DD IC chipsets. |
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| I've finally finished hooking up my system. Tried out the AOTC video in sub 3. No problem with poping or anything, sounds pretty wild, too. Just a long, low, deep sound as the large ship goes over. Then big loud "BOOM" when there is the explosion in the next scene. Very happy, and impressed with the system... |
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Tee | Well, another newbe here. I just bought the HTS-650 knowing that I might have the LFE problem and it appears that I do. First though, I did the speaker test as described in the Onkyo booklet and all the speakers seemed to get a signal, even the sub. Then I did the THX test from AOTC and didn't get even a small blip or any kind of sound from the sub. But....something else happened. When it came time for the rear surround speakers to get the white noise, the sound actually came out of the front center speaker and nothing from the rear ones that I could tell. I checked all the speaker connections several times and they all checked ok. Has anyone else experienced this?? Could I be missing something?? I think I will take the receiver back to CC. They get two packages in and I am going to try to swap it out. If that one is faulty too, I'll see if I can work out a deal to keep the speakers and get a Harmon Kardon receiver. |
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Almost an Owner | To Macterp, Lew and anyone that just bought their system and has no problems, please tell us what state you are in. I am planning on buying this system this week at CC. Also to those owners that just bought their system recently (Feb-Mar) and has the problem, also please tell us what state you are in. |
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Anonymous | I bought my system just last week (State of Washington) from CC. My receiver had an LFE problem (production date - Feb 03). I went back exchanged just the receiver and have no issues now. I am curious if the receivers that are having issues are the ones bundled with the 650 package as I got a standalone receiver that works just fine. |
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Tee | I live in NH and mine came as the bundled package. |
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meek | anonymous, make sure when you exchanged your reciever, that you didnt get the onkyo 300 dollar reciever instead, thats actually weaker then the one that comes with the bundle, yet they look identical, but the amplifier power is different, the seperate entry model is like 60 watts per channel i think or it mightve been 80 im not sure, and the one that comes with the bundle is rated 100. hopefully you exhanged your reciever for another bundled reciever otherwise you may have gotten the short end of the stick and exchanged the reciever for the inferior less powerful model, be aware that both models look identical cosmetically, but the power outputs are different, read your reciever specifications to make sure. |
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Tee | I went to CC today and explained the problem and asked them if I could just swap the receiver for another one, however , I didn't want one that came in the other bundled package. I wanted a separate unit they had in stock. They told me it wouldn't be a problem, but....when I brought the bad receiver in, they realized the only way I could get a new unit was to return the whole package. So.....I had to go all the way home again, pack everything up and return it. About that time I got kind of fed up with the whole thing and just asked them for a complete refund. I'll think about another system some other time after this problem has been resolved. |
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Lew | Got mine as the bundle in Ohio June '02. No problem with my LFE. |
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OnkyoOwner | Info for folks who purchased their Onkyo system from CC--this was posted on another home theater forum "Editor's Note: Thank you for your review of one of our most popular home theater systems. The "LFE bug" you're talking about has been identified and isolated to a relatively small lot of receivers. The defect appears when the receiver's LFE (low frequency effects) feature is set to Mode 3. While in this mode, there is no signal to the subwoofer while listening to Dolby® Digital or DTS® soundtracks. Fortunately, Onkyo has assured us that this issue has been resolved and all new systems will deliver true 5.1 surround in all modes. Circuit City has recently been made aware of this issue through customer feedback and we have worked with Onkyo to come up with a solution to take care of those of you who purchased one of the few affected systems. If you feel your receiver has this defect, please allow us to take care of the problem in one of the following ways: 1. If you purchased one of the affected Onkyo HTS650 home theater system in the last 30 days, we invite you bring the receiver to any local Circuit City store and we'll gladly exchange your receiver for a new one. 2. If you purchased your affected system from us more than 30 days ago but it's still covered under Onkyo's 24-month parts and labor warranty or our City Advantage Protection Plan, please bring it by a Circuit City store and we'll gladly send it to one of our Repair Centers to be fixed. Our technicians are aware of the issue and will work hard to make repairs as quickly as possible. 3. If you're unsure if your system is affected by the LFE defect, please contact Onkyo by calling their toll-free Customer Service number, (800) 229-1687. Again, we thank all of you who helped us learn of this issue, and are committed to helping you resolve this as quickly and as painlessly as possible. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact Circuit City Customer Support by calling (800) THE CITY. --The Staff of circuitcity.com" |
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So So Saaad | Has anybody recieved their reciever after getting it serviced? Does it work? How long did it take to get it back? I'm going to bring my receiver in this weekend to get fixed and would like to know how long i'm going to be without my baby |
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clown vomit | Onkyo overnighted the part to my service center on a Friday, they recieved it on Monday .. brought my receiver in Monday and picked it up that Friday. It would have been done in 1 day but the tech was a d00sh and didn't understand the issue. I don't notice a difference with the overall sound, but I did test it with Minority Report and the LFE definitely works now. Expect to wait about a week for the repair once the part comes in. |
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Traolach | I just received a refurbished HTS650 purchased from the Onkyo site. I tested it using DD 5.1 and THX Optimizer and happily found that the LFE works just fine. I believe Onkyo is on top of the problem on items bought on their website. And at $319, this is an incredible deal. Needless to say - I'm a happy camper! |
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Anonymous | Just checked onkyo refurbs HTS650s at $439. How did Traolach get it at $319???? |
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Anonymous | Just got my HT-S650 receiver back from the Circuit City technicians. It took 11 days total. They kept me posted three times during the time they had the receiver. Very cool for a big company. Could be my imagination, but the system sounds even better than when it was brand new. Could be the Monster cable I finished off the surrounds with this time around. The LFE channel in Dolby Digital 5.1 (subwoofer mode 3) appears to be working fine now. I ran the test on the David Gilmour DVD. Before, the mode 3 didn't work. This time it matches the low bass sound produced in mode 1. I have one concern, though. When I monitor the speakers with the software on my DVD player, the LFE channel is shown as "on" and then once in a while, it goes off for a bit. I think this is supposed to happen with DD 5.1, as LFE output isn't sent constantly through the subwoofer. The LFE seems to be constantly on in DTS. Does anyone know if this is correct? I tested with Matrix and Monterrey Pop. The Hendrix concert is awesome in DD 5.1. But it absolutely kills in DTS. Hopefully, everything is back as it should be. This is really an astonishing system for under $500. |
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Traolach | To Anonymous posted below my post - if you sign up for their "Online Portfolio" on their site (it's free), then you can buy the HTS650 at the "ClubOnkyo" price. The reduced price is $329 but you get 10 points ($10) off so the price ends up $319. Hope that this helps! |
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Anonymous | 17 days and 10 phone calls later, I get my receiver back from the Service Center. It took longer than I expected because the Service Center didn't get around to look at my receiver until day 5 after I dropped it off, then they ordered the wrong part etc..... Finally the LFE is fixed and I just took it home. It sounds great. I really missed my system for the last 17 days. Great System!Great Price! and BIG Hassle to get it fixed!!!. I think Circuit City would have done a fair and predictable job in the repair but independent service center services could vary greatly from shop to shop. They may not even be aware of the LFE problem. At least at Circuit City, there is some kind of channel to complain but not for the independent service center. They can just ignore you. I have to call ONKYO and they were kind got the problem resolved. Onkyo service was good to excellent. No complain there. For those of you who have not bought the system, if you can get one aournd $320 from ONKYO without the LFE problem, it will be great bargain. |
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Anonymous | Well everyone this is my first time posting here! GUESS WHAT? Circuit city called today and said they couldn't fix my reciever but that they would exchange my old one for a newer one! DOES ANYONE in here know if the "newer" recievers have this defect!? I will let you know what happens! Please respond if you can. |
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Anonymous | Does the receiver that comes with the Onkyo LS-V500C have any of these problems? |
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| What is the exact malfuntioning sound. Is it one constant bass freqency or a a constant rumble? When everyone mentions a heartbeat do they mean a literal, lub-dub pause lub-dub? does the sound resemble a a speaker being overloaded as in whomp whomp? The whole heartbeat/smooth sound/rumble noise is hard to follow. If somebody can record what a confirmed "bad noise" is can they post or leave info on where to hear it? This whole business of different descriptions is just confusing. Right now my onkyo test - off the remote - is a rumble, no hisses or irregular bottoming out, and the THX test is the same rumble but at a low volume. BTW I have a HT-R500 could thelow volume be from having a different sub? Any clear info would be more than greatly appreciated |
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Anonymous | If what you hear from the THX test that sounded the SAME as the Onkyo speaker test - rumble noise, then your receiver does NOT have the LFE bug. |
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clown vomit | Nick .. sounds like you're all set with no issues. The infected THX sub woofer sound in the test actually sounds like an erratic heartbeat (bump bump bumpbump). It's easy to hear that something is wrong if you have it. A good working sub in LFE mode sounds like a steady stream (Aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) .. a little lower than the "test" on the receiver. |
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Nick | Thanks so much for the replies, I figured there was nothing wrong but I really wanted to be sure. Once again thank you. Nick |
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| ALL OF YOU, stop crying and just get it fixed. Onkyo knows about the problems and is willing to resolve all issues. I dropped my unit off at the repair shop the other day and they fixed it no questions asked, nothing out of pocket. Depending on where you bring it, the tech should have access to the Onkyo service bulletins(online) which clearly state the problem and that its covered. What I cant understand is that Onkyo asked me if it was still under warranty. Lucky for me it was but I felt that if Onkyo knew, at this point, that they had gotten a bad batch of IC chips, shouldnt they fix the problem regardless of whether or not its under warranty. Giving the benefit of the doubt, Onkyo might not have known that the units were bad before they shipped out, but in reality they did go out from the factory defective. Dont you think this should be a recall issue and not a warranty part? |
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Anonymous | I'm thinking of buy this system today - April 30th. Is it likely I'll have this problem? |
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| i bought a new onkyo tsxr500 and when i connect my vcr to it in video1 using a composite video cable, i am getting the audio, but no video. i also have a dvd hooked up onto optical 1 and my cable box into coax1 and they work fine. what am i doing wrong ? |
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| Please don't think this is a stupid question, but when I first hooked up my 650 system, (I have a Philips 724At DVD player), I connected the dvd using a Digital Optical cable. When I played a DVD I thought the readout on the display said "DTS". Now wheneveer I play a DVD it displays "Dolby D". Is there a setting I have changed somewhere or am I getting the Dolby Digital correctly? |
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