I bought a new Yamaha RX-V673 7.2 channel AVR and so far i'm very disappointed in the sound.
What I had - what i'm comparing it to - is an 18-years old JVC RX-815v Dolby Surround receiver (one just sold on eBay for $210). JVC claims 120wpc - it sounds like it - JVC claims the amp is "Super-A" with GM. It's a class AB biasing scheme attempting to approach class A linearity. I think it sounds fabulous. But it's Dolby Surround. I can tweak the audio settings in my TiVo HD XL (it's Dolby Digital 5.1) to output a PCM stereo downmix of some kind that actually sounds fabulous in 3ch mode on the old JVC. I tweak the audio settings on my BluRay to output a Dolby Surround downmix that also sounds fabulous for movies encoded in Dolby anything but not so good for anything encoded in DTS anything. That's understandable. As far as music - the old JVC sounds pretty darn good. It's not a class A tube but quite impressive for a SS.
I was hoping to keep or improve my music sound quality with the Yamaha and improve my TiVo / BluRay experience - ideally keep the front 3 sounding good and add DTS decoding capability as well as move from 3.1 up to 5.1 (I added 2 monopole surrounds).
What i'm hearing so far is everything sounds weaker. Music is not as sharp and not as clear. TiVo has the largest drop in quality. TV sounds downright lousy. Movies sound close to the same as the old JVC - but so far i've not heard much of anything come out of the surrounds.
I have the TiVO and BluRay connected to the Yamaha with HDMI cables. I've tried all the DSP programs and to me they just distort the sound in different ways. I'm looking for good sound. Not some computer twisted version of a crappy sound. I've tried the pure direct mode and that still sounds really flat. it's like the sound has lost it's sharpness and detail. it sounds like someone replaced my Klipsch reference speakers with some cheap full-range or duo-cone crap speakers for $10 from radio shack. but it's my klipsch reference speakers.
Does this surprise anyone? Are modern amps really that cheap crappy? or is my old JVC Super-A really that good? that's hard to believe. or is it some lucky magical combination between that old amp and my speakers? Or do I not have this thing configured correctly? I ran the YPAO setup and saved it. If I use the YPAO saved settings it doesn't improve the sound any that I can tell above a flat signal.
I've tried all the DSPs - some of them sound okay but it's clearly a distortion of the sound. I can use the EQ to improve the tonal quality of the sound but it still lacks clarity and definition. An EQ cannot fake quality. it's no different than all those DSPs that just stretch the sound in some direction. crappy sound is still crappy sound no matter how you twist it or EQ it.
How much sound am I supposed to be getting out of my surrounds? Watching TV (DD 5.1) I hear nothing from them. That's not a huge surprise the TV shows may not have anything on those channels. But i've watched a BluRay in DD5.1 and so far I haven't heard anything from them. The movie is Killer Elite - it's quite new.
I mean - what's normal for surrounds - am I supposed to be getting sound from them all the time or just every once in a while when some special effect is thrown in?
As far as sound quality - does anyone have any ideas for what I can try or what I may have overlooked? I have 2 weeks to play around with it before it has to go back or stay. As it sounds now it's going back for sure - along with the bookshelf I bought (for surrounds).
It all depends on the amp/speaker combo, room acoustics, speaker placement and your ear/brain combo Dave. I am not too found of Yamaha since at least the late 90s. However, you might find speakers that work well with it. Otherwise, you might need to return the receiver for another brand. Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo and Harmon Kardon come to mind.
I suspect I got lucky and found a match made in heaven with the old JVC receiver and the Klipsch reference 52. I cannot believe the old receiver is that good.
I cannot help but feel like these new HT receivers are just toys. They're not amps. You look at the web page on these things and they talk on and on for pages about all the gadgets they have - nowhere do they say anything at all about the amp - except to say "discrete amps" or maybe mention "torroidal transformers" which only a few have.
From what i've seen studying audio for a few months now - not claiming to be an expert - interested in what you think - it costs more than double to build a high-end multi-channel system versus a high-end stereo audio system. I've never owned a multi-channel system (unless you count my center speaker I stuck into my old Dolby Surround system). I wanted to find out how much the extra speakers (center, surround, sub) add to my experience. The sub helps. The center does improve my HT experience. The surrounds add very little. What i'im saying is I used this Yamaha to learn that i'd be wasting my money on a multi-channel high-end system. I'm certainly wasting money on these bargain-priced HT receivers. I let my wife get me this Yamaha RX-v673 for my birthday - I couldn't think of anything else for her to get me. It's going back.
If / when I build a high-end audio system i'm going to focus on stereo sound and music. I think i'll get so much more for my money sticking to simple, the less circuitry the better and plain old stereo (with a powered sub in the mix somewhere if possible).
I'm hoping that when I do build a high-end system that I can find some experts who can help me get it right.
For a HT system built around a receiver, Harmon Kardon would be your best bet since they include the largest power transformer. Hence, more power when needed.
If at all possible, it would be a good idea to use a dedicated stereo system for music and a dedicated HT system for movies. They should be in 2 separate rooms. In my experience, music just doesn't sound very good on HT systems. However, while you won't get the full surround experience on a 2 or 2.1 channel system, I find movies sound much better in stereo than music does on a HT system even when the HT system is in stereo mode. Since having 2 systems is not option, I have a 2.1 channel system for music, movies, Baltimore Ravens games, etc.
As for the cost, a HT system does have more than twice as many channels as stereo system does (5.1, 7.1 or 7.2). So, it would not be unreasonable for a 5.1 to 7.2 channel preamp, a 5 or 7 channel power amp (or 7 monoblock amps) and 5 to 7 speakers to cost more than double what a 2 channel preamp and power amp (or 2 monoblock amps) and 2 speakers cost. Right? Not to mention, if the system is also used for music, it will probably have more source players than a stereo system will...and no, I won't count you adding a center speaker to your pro-logic system as "multi-channel". Multi channel means 5 to 7 discrete channels. The center channel in pro-logic is merely an extension of the front left and right channels.
With all due respect, I'd suggest spending more time doing research and thinking about your goals and priorities before buying another piece of gear on any level. What's more important, music or movie sound? Once you've answered that question, you'll need to decide what your priorities are within that realm. Otherwise, you'll waist a lot of time and money buying and returning gear. Sure, you can return a piece of gear within 30 days for a full refund, but you can't recoup the time, gas and wear & tear on your car or what the stress will do your body and quite possibly your marriage if you are not sure what you want when you go shopping for gear. Just friendly advise from a fellow audiophile who is also married.
I have the same old jvc rx-815v receiver and your right, it's the best sounding amp I over owned. I have two front polk audio speakers and a self powered sub running off of it and it sounds very impressive. I've owned an older high end yamaha amp, a pioneer vsx-9700s amp, a older luxman amp, a couple of junky technics amps and I heard a lot of different amps and I still com bach to that old jvc rx-815v amp. It kicks hard and sound very very good. To me, I haven't heard anything sound better unless a person went with the older 1970's receivers or pay 1000's for a very high end amp and still then, is it really worth it in the end. I paid cheap for my jvc rx-815v and it will keep up with the best of them.