Shorten your speaker cables

 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4093
Registered: May-05
In the last few months, I've upgraded some cabling in my system. With our first born coming any day now, I've tried to keep spending to a minimum while experimenting with a few things. So here's what I did...

Glass optical cable from my Apple TV to my Theta DAC:

Sonicwave glass Toslink cable from Amazon for $22.36 (free shipping). Vinnie Rossi of Red Wine Audio said he has a bunch of customers who use it and are very happy with it. They claimed it bettered the high dollar glass ones. It was a very good improvement over the plastic NXG cable that my dealer gave me when I bought the Theta. They tried a bunch of different ones in the past and thought it sounded the best for under $150 or so. The cable retailed for $25.

Compared to the NXG, the Sonicwave made everything more vivid and colorful (not colored). Everything is sharper (in a good way) and far better focused. I'm guessing this has to do with introducing less jitter than the NXG.

If you have a digital output into a DAC, you've got to try this out. It's a no brainer for $22!

Power Cord for my Apple TV:

Audioquest NRG-1 power cord for my Apple TV for $64 from Music Direct. I was pretty skeptical about a C-7 sytle power cord improving my Apple TV's audio. I only use the optical output for audio, and it's not an electrical connection so how much can power really effect it? They have a 100% money back return policy, so I figured I'd give it a shot. Results were the same as with the Sonicwave cable - sharper and more focused. I'm guessing the shoe-lace sized power cable didn't shield any garbage and/or choked the current going in, which resulted in more jitter coming out of the digital output. To be honest, I'm not sure if one was a bigger improvement. They both did the same thing to pretty much the same extent. The Sonicwave cable was less than half the price, so I guess that was a better VFM.

If you have a C-7 style plug - the oval shaped, 2 hole at the source style - give this a shot. Return policy makes it a safe gamble.

Shortening my speaker cables:

I had 22 foot runs due to the layout of my last place. I use Canare 4S11, which is star quad cable that's designed for long runs. It has four 14 gauge cables (2 pos and 2 neg) rolled/twisted into a teflon jacket. A lot of people bi-wire with it, but I single wire with it. Single wiring makes it a 9 gauge cable.

I shortened them to 8 feet per side and re-terminated with new Audioquest silver crimp-on spades. The cable used to have the same silver spades on the speaker end and silver bananas on the amp end.

That was a pretty big improvement. It's like a huge veil was lifted off the speakers. My wife noticed it instantly. "That sounds a lot clearer" were her words. I didn't sound veiled at all to my ears before the change; it's one of things you don't notice until you get rid of it.

I mentioned that I used new connectors all the way around because this may have had a little bit to do with it, although I doubt it. I didn't notice any oxidation on the old ones where there was contact. The new ones are a little shinnier, but not too much when held side by side. Maybe the replacement of the banana plugs with spades at one end had something to do with it? I can't see how that would have that much effect.

The reason why I named the thread "Shorten your speaker cables" is because this had the most obvious sonic effect. With the other changes, you'd have to know the system for a little while to make them obvious. The effect from shortening the cables would be pretty obvious to pretty anyone. If you have some room to spare, shorten them up!

Links to the stuff...

Sonicwave toslink -
http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-45456-Sonicwave-Toslink/dp/B0009JR4GK

Audioquest power cord -
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/72859

If anyone's got anything to add as far as tweaks, tips, etc., feel free. Same goes for comments/theories as to why I heard what I did (hopefully that won't denegrate into absurdity).
 

Silver Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 816
Registered: Dec-06
I guess 22' is pretty long. Right now I am running 2 meter speaker cables and 1 meter interconnects. When I upgrade to my LFD speaker cable (hopefully this week) it'll be up to 3 meters. But as you may know my room is pretty small.

The only thing I can think of, other than the shortening, might be a poor connection at one of the termination points (not oxidation but simply a poor physical connection). How often that sort of thing happens I am not sure.

On a similar note, I'm certain that my speaker cables were not making a very good connection with my speakers when I was using my old jumper cables terminated with spades. The spade was a little bit thick, and so when I closed the speaker's binding post on it the binding post was out a fair bit. Plugging a banana plug into it from the amp meant that it was not plugged in fully. I could see a similar thing happening if you had speaker cables terminated with spades and jumpers with bananas. Then the jumpers wouldn't make a great connection. Once I went to plain old one inch length speaker cable with bare ends for jumpers the sound all of a sudden had weight and fullness. You may recall how much I complained about the lack of that quality, convinced it was my small speakers and that I needed larger ones.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4095
Registered: May-05
Interesting about the jumpers. My speakers have a single set of posts, so no issue there. I made jumpers the same way you did with my previous speakers, and didn't have an issue with the bananas not fitting right. I guess different posts are different.

What's odd is that my speaker cables are designed for long runs. I had no choice but to have them that long in the old place Shortening them up worked out very well. I wasn't expecting them to sound better, or even different. I shortened them to get rid of the big coils behind the speakers.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 13405
Registered: Feb-05
Good post, Stu.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 817
Registered: Dec-06
I think the spades that those jumpers were terminated with was thicker than a lot of spades are. It was a pre-made set of jumpers from Atlas, not something I made myself.
 

Gold Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 1092
Registered: Jul-07
Thanks for the info Stu. You're speaker cable wasn't so long that I would have expected a significant difference....at least in good wire which you have. It would be interesting to have done the same experiment with bare wire connections, prior to putting the new terminations on. The new terminations (same terminators as before ?) could be where the magic is, not the cable length.

I have an Apple TV as well, so I'll look into the power and optical cables.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4098
Registered: May-05
Are you using a DAC with the Apple TV Chris? If so, what DAC and cable? I didn't think the power cord would make much if any difference.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Canada

Post Number: 3306
Registered: Jun-07
Stu- I will try out the optical cable, thanks for the post. cheers.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4430
Registered: Feb-07
22 feet is a huge distance Stu. My previous setup when I had my audio stand off to one side of the speakers required 12 foot runs. I thought that was pretty long. Now I have my rack centered between my speakers and I'm using 6 foot runs. I can't help but think there must be some soft of degredation going on when using excessively long runs.
 

Gold Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 1093
Registered: Jul-07
"I can't help but think there must be some soft of degredation going on when using excessively long runs."

I would have thought that also David, but I've also read articles from numerous cable manufacturers that phase distortion and frequency impacts only start to become significant above 25', perhaps even longer. I remember reading the MacIntosh recommmendations on cable guage and length and I was blown away. They didn't recommend heavier than 18awg wire until the lengths got very very long. Of course, thoese recommendations were in the manual of a pretty old amplifier, but still.

Stu, I'm using the VDA-2 DAC right now into my slowly dieing NAD receiver. I couldn't even tell you the brand of the optical cable....which probably tells you all you need to know. I think I paid about 20 bucks for it.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 15570
Registered: Dec-04
Slowly dieing Nad.
How very sad.

Like my tv
 

Gold Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 1094
Registered: Jul-07
Not really Nuck. I'm glad the thing is coughing up a lung. I won't make the same mistake again, and buy another receiver. I'll get a decent integrated and be better for it. Now, where did I leave that piggy bank........here, piggy, piggy, piggy......
 

Gold Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 1095
Registered: Jul-07
I was thinking about this some more. I'm wondering if coiling the cables on the floor was part of the issue. It would have been interesting to run the cable out in full lengths, elevated off the floor preferably, to see if that made a difference. The other thing is potential RF or nasties in the room that the wire was picking up. If you have issues like that in the room, the longer the wire, the more likely and significant the impact. Just thoughts.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4099
Registered: May-05
Very valid thoughts Chris. In my old room, they weren't coiled. Both rooms had hardwood floors and the cables weren't on carpet, which is the supposed theory for elevating cables. I can't say the system sounded exactly the same as it did in the last place, due to being in a different room, but it didn't sound dramatically different after spending some time working with the current room. For the sake of arguement, they sounded very similar, especially in the veiling that i didnt notice until i shortened the cables All i know is after shortening them, the system has never sounded better.

Whatever the cause, shortening the cables dramatically improved the sound.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4100
Registered: May-05
If your system is up to revealing changes, that glass cable should make a good difference. It would be interesting to try it out using your RWA system. Same for the power cord.
 

Gold Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 1097
Registered: Jul-07
When I had the VDA-2 hooked up to the 30.2 before it was with the coax connection. I preferred the Minimax, but always wanted to try the VDA-2 with a computer based system. I might order the cable just to have, and then temporarily move the DAC back downstairs to see how the optical connection sounds in comparison. Like you said, very cheap thing to try. Even the smallest of improvements is worth $20.

On the subject of "tweaks", I remeasured the distance from my ears to the speakers the other day and found the right speaker was about 3" closer than my left. So, I move the speaker back a bit and it did make a difference. I have to completely redo my listening room sometime soon. It's a disaster area right now.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4101
Registered: May-05
I'm contemplating buying the Get Better Sound book by Jim Smith. It was $50, but it's now $30 and some change. A lot of people swear by it. The guy's credentials are pretty impressive.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4432
Registered: Feb-07
I've thought about buying that book too. Looks interesting.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4102
Registered: May-05
I just ordered it, David. $35 and some change including shipping. Should be here in a few days.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4433
Registered: Feb-07
Cool! Let me know what you think of it Stu. Might be a good Xmas present to ask my wife for.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 821
Registered: Dec-06
I have the book. Bought it earlier this year and gave it one read. I will probably need to read it again, and will try out some of his tips. But I was kind of disappointed overall. My impression after the one read was that it was often repetitive, and that he could have explained some things a little better than he did. I much preferred the two books that UHF released in the 90's, which were at the same time more technical, but also more enjoyable and easier to understand. Different kinds of books though.

A lot of the tips really aren't tips, but more his opinion on a topic. You cannot really act on it, unless it's to change your own outlook to match his. Then there are tips that I just didn't really bite on. Like removing your glasses while listening (which supposedly increases the sense of palpability, but not dynamics or the quality of timbre), or setting aside a certain time to listen (this in theory makes it feel like an event), rather than listening on a whim. That said, I don't want to pass judgment too quickly, because the fact is that I haven't actually sat down and tried the vast majority of his suggestions.

On the other hand, there is some interesting stuff. More of an outlook than a tip, but he says that tight bass is an audiophile idea that isn't relevant to real music. Tight bass is a drying of the foundation of music. Weight is necessary for palpability and a sense of cohesion. Bloom, not boom. And he suggests that fast bass is a bit of a misnomer. Speed is how many cycles per second a driver can play. Fast drivers are tweeters, not woofers. However, how quickly a driver settles is relevant, and probably what people mean when they utter the phrase, fast bass.

Here is one interesting tip...for rotary or sliding controls, move them all the way through their path weekly to prevent oxidation of the unused part of the path (obviously you do this with the system powered off).

I'll stop there. I guess my review is a little bit mixed, but hey, if you use just 5% of the tips in the book and they work for you, that's more than worth the 40 bucks spent.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4103
Registered: May-05
I don't wear glasses, so I miss out on that one.

I was looking into it more for room setup type stuff. I'll give some feedback on it too after I read it and try some things out.

Thanks for your thoughts on it, Dan.
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 1826
Registered: Oct-07
Stu, Run don't walk, up to the local market and get some 'reading glasses'. The #10s....or better. Something to induce temporary blindness.
Everything'll sound better.

Looking forward to your 'book report'.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4105
Registered: May-05
Thanks, Leo. You just turned it into homework. When's the due date, so I can start at 9 pm the night before it's due?
 

Silver Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 822
Registered: Dec-06
Room set up is definitely in there, Stu.

If a few of us end up owning this book, we should post which tips we've all tried and our level of success with them.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4106
Registered: May-05
I was thinking the same thing Dan.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 15575
Registered: Dec-04
Leo, could you turn s@x into science?
I may be undergunned for Leo's guide to foreplay.
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 1827
Registered: Oct-07
Well, if poor vision helps sound, and wearing your glasses to correct your vision hurts,
Than if follows that if you have good vision, wearing some glasses to mess up your vision should likewise help.
No?

I found the 'Cliffs Notes' for 'Get Better Sound'. It's in the book rack in the restroom. So no rush with the book report!

And, didn't Nuck's last GF mumble something about 'undergunned' on the way out the door?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 15582
Registered: Dec-04
She left after meeting Fritz the chicken, my constant supply of feathers...
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