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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15360 Registered: May-04 | . (from the op ("X")of a thread asking questions about equipment racks)" ... Is there really that much vibration taking place throughout the equipment rack to cause enough disturbance of the electronic components to make a noticeable difference in sound or is the whole equipment rack concept another one of those high end audio world snake oil treatments? ... " You've already decided there is snake oil for sale?! That's a shame. For someone to make up their mind about so many things when they still have so many questions to ask ... " (from the op) " ... In my opinion I see many audio components that I would consider Snake Oil based on price alone if nothing else. To some this may seem "Close Minded" as recently expressed, but how about that Low Frequency Generator for $600. What about that $500 Reference CD Stabilizer Mat that's made of Gold which will breathe new life into all your CD's. And let's not forget the $1200 Holographic room optimizer that looks like a music sheet holder that sits behind your speakers to help produce the most lifelike performance you have ever encountered in your listening room. And lastly, my favorite; the ultra pure copper CAT5 reference cable that will help reduce data packet collisions and help ensure the most accurate delivery of 1's & 0's your music server has ever encountered. If someone has the coin to purchase these types of novelty products then I applaud them and will be forever green with envy. On the other hand, I would be equally appreciative if that person wishes to analyze and produce hard data to back up the validity of these product claims. I'm all for reading about it and will eat crow if I am wrong in prejudging them ... " From a second contributor ("Y") " ... Personally, I'll easily go for a tweak that on the face of it seems ridiculous but doesn't cost me much, as long as I really do hear a consistent improvement. Green marker on CD might totally do it for some audiophiles (not me). Even if the green marker is actually snake oil, I don't get very upset about its use. If the listener likes it and it gives him peace of mind, it costs next to nothing to achieve what just might be a placebo effect. Nobody gets hurt. On the other hand, some expensive tweaks are worth it to me. I know how important good cables are and will spend a good chunk of change to make sure I'm getting the best performance from my system as I can. I guess I justify spending more on cables because I've done more experimenting with cables in my system than I have with, say, audio racks. I'm familiar with cables. I understand how certain cables can consistently improve or deteriorate the sound of my system, so I spend the money 'cause I feel like I know what I'm getting. Expensive tweaks that have no rational scientific basis make me very leery. I stay away ... " Then what exactly is it to say, "Y"? "Tweaks" are worth it or tweaks are not worth it? Snake oil is snake oil and there would seem to be little equivocation about which is which. Yet you manage to do so ... You look at the price and decide whether or not it is snake oil. By that equation a Maseratti is snake oil that simply cannot perform as advertised. A Piaget is snake oil as is a Harvard education. A Gibson guitar is snake oil when a $129 Yamaha is just as good and is not, employing your logic, snake oil. Why, I'm even surprised the Gibson makes sound since it is undoubtedly snake oil! ... (from the second contributor ("Y") " ... Do you mean to say that there is no snake oil in the audio world, that every product or treatment on the market is valid and that if we dismiss anything as snake oil we are being close minded? Again, I'm seriously trying to understand where you are coming from." "First, why limit this to the world of audio? As I stated, your seeming justification for "why" certain treatments, devices or whatever should be viewed as snake oil has a large dependence upon the price of the item. Not the value of the item, mind you, just the price. Therefore, my inclusion of an item many consider to be of heirloom quality would be snake oil by your logic. And ... four years spent at Harvard would certainly not seem to many people to be wasted on snake oil. Why would those items be any different in your mind if price is a key justification for "snake oiliness"? Isn't value the real issue here? The issue should be what is of value to the individual, because surely a $10k+ investment in audio gear of any sort is absurd when you think of the crying need for assistance by so many in this world. Setting aside for the moment the hedonism of this hobby, if $1k spent on a device garners more improvement to the listening experience than would $2.5k in gear, which is the better value? If the result is available from no other device, is the $1k snake oil? Or, put another way, if your system is not operating at its fullest potential, then why bother upgrading equipment without a clear ability to discern what is lacking - when what is lacking will still remain even after the equipment change - or without the ability for the new component to reach its fullest potential? If you've not even experimented with a device or treatment, how do you place a value on its potential contributions? Going back to equipment once again, if you own a modest system and you invest in a $1k set of speaker cables, how much of the cable's potential is being wasted when fed from a $400 source player? No way to tell in such a hypothetical situation but, isn't that what you're faced with when viewing alternative devices? Until your system reaches a certain level of transparency certain components and certain "tweaks" will remain wasted in their potential. Does that lead you to label all such devices as snake oil? Wouldn't the $1k cables then qualify as such? However, you ("Y") claim to see the value of such an inclusion in your own system ... If we agree that a given component will be hamstrung until another component removes a few veils and opens a few windows, it might be that you will never reach the level of transparency required to appreciate "that Low Frequency Generator for $600" (which doesn't sell for $600 and does operate as advertised) until you also employ "the $1200 Holographic room optimizer that looks like a music sheet holder that sits behind your speakers to help produce the most lifelike performance you have ever encountered in your listening room." Does that make both snake oil? Or just the first? I completely agree with advice suggesting the more expensive anything should be kept in balance with the rest of the system but that should not extend to "I consider any 'tweak' over 'X' price to be skating on snake oil." The issue here, ... and the comment which is drawing so much ire, is whether someone ("X") with zero experience in so many components, devices, treatments, etc., should be so convinced there is so much snake oil out there. It seems ("X") is coming to the conclusion stands have some value in an audio system. Fine, he has found some sort of justification that suits his reasoning. I don't know what that might be but an open mind is all I am advocating. You ("Y") have found "logic" in cables where others logically find none. Some of your satisfaction I assume has come through experimentation. Your experience informs your reasoning, no? Your proof is what you preceive, right? Despite the fact many would claim you to be deluded and engaging in snake oil. What I am not advocating is that anyone should rush out to spend large sums on devices which have not been reasoned through in the context of their own system and - hopefully - their own "priorities". I strongly prefer to have someone know what they are trying to achieve and then put together a "system" which fulfills those desires and realizes the trade offs necessary within their budget. Not that long ago, and to many still, cables are a complete snake oil addition. Indisputable facts can be brought to the fore which do more to prove cables are "fake" than can be utilized to prove the opposite. So too with stands, LP clamps, and footers, etc. However, someone thought for awhile, tried them, thought them to be beneficial and they caught on even though my personal experience tells me most are now sold without a smidgen of reasoning. Too many buy these devices without understanding just what they are buying or why. They just buy. That borders on snake oil and insanity. Consider for a moment that with each addition of a well placed and well reasoned footer, cable, clamp, etc. the system does become more transparent to the source. Now we are more capable of perceiving the next level which might benefit from yet another veil being lifted. What if that veil comes down by the addition of what some might consider snake oil? Why then do those same individuals turn around and demand "proof" of such things as a Schumman Resonator? Worst yet IMO they fail to do due diligence to find that such proof does exist. They are oblivious to the fact NASA employs the device for the very reasons the audiophile might want to investigate the device. The question to you, "Y", is, why? Why do you suppose these otherwise intelligent and apparently logical consumers dismiss an item when often the fault in their reasoning is their own? We've seen on repeated occasions ... that many times the naysayers are quite willing to intentionally ignore facts which would provide the proof they demand. Why is that do you suppose? Why are people so quick to label something snake oil when, if they did a bit of research, they might find the answer they demand from others? If they can do nothing more than read reports from those whom we would assume they might trust, audio journalists and reviewers in whom they have faith, why be so quick to label something snake oil when those same reviewers have suggested it is not? What proof is required if no proof ... is acceptable? Explain the logic of that to me ... " |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1036 Registered: Jul-07 | Reality lies in the willingness to comprehend. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15123 Registered: Jan-08 | Many thing are gadgets like 12 000$ cable or 250 000 amplifier or 2000 speaker spike, most poeples which buy those thing does not know the difference and what to do to correct a problem, most do not have idea how positioned their speakers in a room and what kind of sound it give near or far the wall. For example we tried 18" of RCA high cost cable then 6 feet of same cable then it does not sound likely!!!! For me those cable are a joke because they pretend to have the best cable! If their are so good why they do not sound identical? Same thing for the speaker spike, on wood floor we tested high cost spike then we we placed 3 beer bottle cap well positionned which you know the cost, both give improvment then the difference between was nothing, on carpet the cap does not work but spike is a improvment. Wire support is also a joke to my eye, we can see poeple put their RCA cables with the speakers cable when they don't put the AC cable on the same support, they come on many forums tell us that they can see the difference! I can tell LOL! They also do a loop with their cables when a "S" is requiert!(We know it in concert audio system). Tube is also a fashion with all its default of reliability. Certainly not green thing! The experience with what is doing what is better that many gadget sold too expensively! I know that those who sell these gadgets are not going to like my comments but it is the truth! Just my opinion! |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1037 Registered: Jul-07 | "....but it is the truth" "Just my opinion" Well, which is it ? The "truth" or an "opinion" ? It's a dangerous generalization to make, taking your experience and making it "truth", isn't it ? Doesn't it presume your experience and viewpoint is the only valid one ? I think you're a textbook example of what Jan is talking about. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15363 Registered: May-04 | . " ... but it is the truth! Just my opinion!" . |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15128 Registered: Jan-08 | Chris and Jan! Decide yourself which is good for you! For me it's the truth! For Jan a good rewiewer certainly it was my opinion! Chris can you tell us what you think about it: "For example we tried 18" of RCA high cost cable then 6 feet of same cable then it does not sound likely!!!! For me those cable are a joke because they pretend to have the best cable! If they are so good why they does not sound identical? " |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15137 Registered: Jan-08 | Chris? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15364 Registered: May-04 | . Maybe he doesn't care for your experiments at all. You haven't given him that option. Why don't you ask him if he's for damping? |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15138 Registered: Jan-08 | The best amp was made with experiments! No? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15453 Registered: Dec-04 | Plymouth, WTF are you writing about?? I understand your English perfectly fine, but for the life of me, I cannot follow your intent. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15454 Registered: Dec-04 | Every single part of a component chain matters, ok? Every time a part of the chain is changed, the result WILL vary. You may not hear, smell or see the change, but the result WILL change, agreed? Ok, then. Now proceed to bash things that you may or may not have tried for yourself with the understanding of a series of componants. Don't believe me? OK. Take your current stereo setup (whatever that is). Now change, oh, the speaker impedance by .01 ohms. Did you hear that? Likely not. Did the electrical properties of the circuit change? You betcha, but not to the extent that you can realize it without a meter. So yes, everything matters and everything makes a difference. Now extend that to elements that cannot be measured. Emotion, Love, respect, joy |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15139 Registered: Jan-08 | Nuck I commented on Jan's post to demonstrate that the price is not a reference to the exactness of the sound! I join you on everything can be heard then a meter doesn't give a musical sound but it help, If I find a problem with instruments, I try to correct and to see if that improves the sound, usualy that improves! When we understand the not wished effects of the resonnance, everything can improve even the cap of beers. I have a lot of difficulty to understand why a cable with same conception does not ring identical with the length, I understands the effect of the length on the sound but I also heard cables where is no difference and much less expensive. My opinion on this: it is because the wire produces a not desirable coloring, how can they pretend to have the best wire? Now concerning the spike, the spike was initialy introce to eliminate the résonnance of the bottom of the speaker box and to make a coupling to the floor to avoid the movement of this box to keep the sound wave like the initial in the room. "Now extend that to elements that cannot be measured. Emotion, Love, respect, joy" I join also you on it but I have difficulty with a system which can not reproduce all kind of musics, for me a good system can play as well that classic that heavy rock but I asume that the heavy rock lovers will tend to found my system a little to soft for them. I'm tired to listen so much systems which sound well but not able to reproduce a live concert of jazz played without amplification with its room default where we can hear the depht and the position of each instruments. I'm not different of you, I experimented just for a long time every components to reproduce with the best exactness the music! |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1038 Registered: Jul-07 | Sorry for the late response. I get up at 4am every work day so I'm pretty bagged by Friday night. And, I picked up a new Seagull acoustic on the way home from work, so I was spending some time with that. "Chris can you tell us what you think about it: "For example we tried 18" of RCA high cost cable then 6 feet of same cable then it does not sound likely!!!! For me those cable are a joke because they pretend to have the best cable! If they are so good why they does not sound identical? " If I understand the question, you're asking me why a cable that YOU experimented with, in YOUR system, didn't sound the same when you tried it with differing lengths ? Well, I don't know. I don't know what you can hear and can't hear for starters. I also don't know whether you hooked up the longer length exactly the same, or maybe you ran the longer cable along a power cable......or maybe the added capacitance mattered to your amplifier......or maybe the wire was crap......I really don't know Plymouth. My understanding of interconnects is shorter lengths are better. Maybe that's the point you proved. I dunno, it's your experiment, it's hard to comment on it. If there is a specific question you have, please ask it. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1039 Registered: Jul-07 | Plymouth, I'm far from a guy who believes you must have high priced cables. I'm using $6 worth of wire for speaker cables. If you're attempting to get me to argue that pricey cable is necessary for good sound you're barking up the wrong tree. A very well known and respected speaker designer and builder wrote this on his website; "What do I use? Often, Walmart zip cord. Sometimes single pairs of CAT5. My "show" cables are two pair star wound CAT5, primarily because it isn't stock. There is a lot of elitism at shows. Among other things, you MUST use a tube amp, which I do. Here is a list of cables I find to be good, as well as cheap. No particular order: - Single pair CAT5. Best all around cable for relatively high efficiency full-range driver. - Two pair star-wound CAT5. Looks nice and easy to do. - Cross-connected CAT5. Use all eight wires -- solids to +ve, strips to -ve. - 18ga bell wire. Use if single pair CAT5 doesn't have enough oats. 16ga zip cord. My standard. - "White Lightning", "HD Orange", etc. Get ANY 16ga three wire extension cord. White to +ve, black to -ve, do what ever you want with the green. Sounds pretty much like the 16ga zip cord because that's pretty much what it is. Comes in black, green, white, and orange to match your decor." That's more in line with my thinking on the subject, although I expect you can get excellent results in some far more costly options. It's just not a place I think I'll spend much of my money. I got some good advice here a while ago, and I've stayed with pretty modest cabling, with good results. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15141 Registered: Jan-08 | Chris I replied to this: "I think you're a textbook example of what Jan is talking about." I well understand your point of vue! My reference with cable is that a cable must be identical even if the cable lenght is 6" or 4' or this cable is not reliable, I assume that many persons use the cable to correct the final result default of their system. Best regard! |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1041 Registered: Jul-07 | The reason I stated "I think you're a textbook example of what Jan is talking about." is because of your "truth" comment based on your experiments. I read it as closed ended, with no room (in your mind) for debate or further consideration......"glass full", in other words. If you're willing to rethink or test your opinions, I stand corrected. If not, my comment stands. As to "My reference with cable is that a cable must be identical even if the cable lenght is 6" or 4' or this cable is not reliable"....does this apply to ANY cable, in ANY application ? If the length of the cable changes some measurements of the cable (added capacitance with length for instance), doesn't it stand to reason there is a potential for it to affect the sound ? Are you saying that with the right wire, I should be able to have a 30' interconnect and a 1' interconnect and they should sound identical ? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15456 Registered: Dec-04 | Cable ringing. So... Naww fuckit, Plymouth is thinking on another plane then me. I kinda fall back on the 1.5 meter cables that I use, looped, not snaked. Held away from the staticky carpet by hockey pucks, because I do think that Plymouth make have sneezed, bled or given birth on the carpet that I have here. Stainmaster or not, some shite just doesn't wash so well. You are a neophite tech major, Plymouth. You have a geat need for some live music input and a real realignment of your considerations. Mon Ami, you really have to listen more and shut up more often. I don't remember the last time that I learned anything by talking. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1687 Registered: Oct-07 | http://www.businessballs.com/sevenhabitsstevencovey.htm #5 is to be commended |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15142 Registered: Jan-08 | "Are you saying that with the right wire, I should be able to have a 30' interconnect and a 1' interconnect and they should sound identical ?" Yes! My experience in concert audio answers also Yes! When we use 400 feets of cable between the mixer and the amplifier, this cable must be very good, this kind of cable sound identical with 30' or 1' then do not cost 1000$ for 1 foot. Today we use Wifi because the instalation is easier and faster! Now I can understand that you are negative about it because you does not tested it! Nuck Music is my life from my first Tube amplifier to my reference Solid State of today! I was like you all in the pass but since with so many experiments, my vue has changed! What do you think on Optical Cable? I think that it is a great improvment! |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1042 Registered: Jul-07 | "Now I can understand that you are negative about it because you does not tested it! " And you have come to this conclusion how ? Please show me what I posted that led you to that conclusion. I think you're very good at coming to conclusions Plymouth, and less good at keeping an open mind. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittStamford, Connecticut USA Post Number: 4038 Registered: May-05 | "Are you saying that with the right wire, I should be able to have a 30' interconnect and a 1' interconnect and they should sound identical ?" "Yes!" They should not sound identical. The resistance, capacitance, and inductance ratio changes as length increases. Highly capacitive wire such as the Anti-Cables meant to be used in very short runs. Other wires are designed for very long runs, such as star-quad wires. Wires are an area that cost is not an indicator of performance. Audio is full of snake oil. So is every other hobby. If you hear a difference, there's a difference. If you don't hear a difference, there's no difference. Hearing is perception. Physically, no two people's ears hear exactly the same. That signal is then sent to the brain and processed. No two people perceive the same exact stimulus exactly the same. Ony idiots tell people what they do or don't hear. Only bigger idiots let said idiots tell them so. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3232 Registered: Jun-07 | lol Well said Stu. Spot on. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13327 Registered: Feb-05 | Another thumbs up for Stu. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15144 Registered: Jan-08 | Hi Stu Pitt! The difference was the gain! I invite you to try a good Microphone cable then soldered 2 good gold plate RCA connector then listen it! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15463 Registered: Dec-04 | Plymouth, you fool, what is a 'concert audio'? You dipshit, you cannot tell the difference between powered balanced pro audio interconnects and rca's! That''s the fubar here! You dickwad, of course powered balanced connections are different! Holyshit Batman, this took so long? I have concert connections here as well, thankfully. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15464 Registered: Dec-04 | Plymouth, you knob, you should be able to put forth a reasonable coherent point for balanced vs nominal connections in any language or context of audio. I have seen enough, you weenie. No time left for you, on my way to a better place, no time left for youououou |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittStamford, Connecticut USA Post Number: 4039 Registered: May-05 | Plymouth reminds me a lot of a guy that would came here and touted ridiculous gear and tweaks, claimimg the stuff was the best, AT ANY PRICE!!! What was that joker's name? It's killing me. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittStamford, Connecticut USA Post Number: 4040 Registered: May-05 | It just came to me... HIFI Soundguy!!! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3234 Registered: Jun-07 | ohhhhHHh man I know who your talking about " AT ANY PRICE!! " but cant seem to remember his name. Flash in the pan guy. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15147 Registered: Jan-08 | Stu Pitt Where I claim that? I never claimed that Wal-mart has good cable! You divert the subject! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15468 Registered: Dec-04 | ok Plymouth, you are now branded a troll. Stuie never misses a mark, and I agree with him. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15149 Registered: Jan-08 | Nuck You are the focking drunk troll! I talk to Stu Pitt! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15472 Registered: Dec-04 | So use a PM you dumb stick! You give stupid Canadians a bad name. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3236 Registered: Jun-07 | He is Canadian? ahhhh mannn. Geeezzzz. Come onn....ahhhhh. I just saw the Canada. ahhhhhhh great. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4338 Registered: Feb-07 | Canadian? I thought he was from Quebec? |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15157 Registered: Jan-08 | I'm from Quebec city! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittStamford, Connecticut USA Post Number: 4041 Registered: May-05 | The only thing worse than the French are French Canadians. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4339 Registered: Feb-07 | "I'm from Quebec city!" That explains everything. Next. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3237 Registered: Jun-07 | LOL well said again Stu. Well said. David - Quebec? Ok it all makes sense now. Phew! I thought he was a real Canadian. I feel so much better about this whole thing now.lol George St Pierre still kicks bum though.lol. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15159 Registered: Jan-08 | LOL! Many very good amplifiers come from province of Quebec, we has better average than USA, our reputation concerning the high fidelity is world wide. Your comments about my province prove how you are stupid! This is very low and demonstrate your intelligence. If it is the only way for you to act when you are kicked! |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1043 Registered: Jul-07 | C'mon guys, I'm sure we all have french canadian friends (at least I do). Great Province, nice people. Plymouth, try preaching less, discussing more. You have your thoughts on audio, but allow for the fact that others have theirs as well. Nobody is going to try every experiment you throw out there, just to see if they get the same results. At least I'm not. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15162 Registered: Jan-08 | Hi Chris! Thanks for your comments! I tried to discuss but it seem that new helpers at this forum are not welcome, I think reader need to know the good base under cable, amplifier etc... Denigrate my comments only to denigrate do not demonstrate a very great way of discussing! Best regard! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15480 Registered: Dec-04 | Thank Gawd I am flying out of QC before this buffoon wanted to meet for a drink. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1044 Registered: Jul-07 | "I tried to discuss but it seem that new helpers at this forum are not welcome, I think reader need to know the good base under cable, amplifier etc... " I think that's the part you need to rethink. You're version of "helper" seems to be that you'll tell us what you think we need to know....and then argue vehmently if someone disagrees with you. That's not my idea of help. I'd frame that as lecturing. I've survived this long without "Plymouths words of wisdom", so I can manage a few more days of not knowing what you think I need to know. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1045 Registered: Jul-07 | Sorry for taking your thread off track Jan. I'm done. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15377 Registered: May-04 | . As long as P's around, I kinda doubt that, Chris. "Many thing are gadgets like 12 000$ cable or 250 000 amplifier or 2000 speaker spike ... " P, please point me to the "$12K cable" you are discussing here, and the "$250k amp" and "$2k spikes". I'd kind of like to see what a two hundred and fifty thousand dollar "gadget" looks like. I sure can't remember ever seeing a spike that cost $2,000 - least not for hifi. I'll be waiting but don't become impatient if I don't repsond immediately. I'll probably be busy getting a lesson in hifi from James on another thread. Just leave a message and I'll get back to ya, promise! (You weren't talkin' Canadian "funny" dollars, were you?) . |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15178 Registered: Jan-08 | Jan I was referring to this link for amplifier that I thought you knew: http://www.higherfi.com/ And this link for cable: http://www.element-acoustics.ca/products.php?cid=3&sid=14 |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15185 Registered: Jan-08 | Kicked your azz again Jan? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15381 Registered: May-04 | . I just get a main page here, p; http://www.higherfi.com/. Point me to the amp. Kicked my "azz"? You take your small, worthless victories wherever you can. I asked you to show me what you referred to. I know there are $12k cables but I'd not seen a $250k amp that could be decribed as a "gadget". And I do not recall ever seeing a $2k spike. If you want to put this down in your diary as, "Today I kicked Jan's Azz", you're welcome to do so. However, you'll still be just as wrong as you have been about everything else. So link me to the amp and those spikes. That's all I was asking about. . |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15199 Registered: Jan-08 | http://www.higherfi.com/audio_amps/1 For the spike later! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15387 Registered: May-04 | . And you consider those amps to be "gadgets"? Have you ever heard music played through any of those amps? |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15202 Registered: Jan-08 | "P, please point me to the "$12K cable" you are discussing here, and the "$250k amp" and "$2k spikes"." Not happy? A Rolex does not sound great! |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15203 Registered: Jan-08 | "Have you ever heard music played through any of those amps?" Yes then I can tell you that you can buy better for much much less! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15391 Registered: May-04 | . Then, for the most part, you are once more proving yourself to be an idiot. You have crossed over into "james-land". |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15212 Registered: Jan-08 | Your g%y friend? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15392 Registered: May-04 | . Wouldn't take him way from you, P. You're the only person who has ever truly loved him the way he wants to be loved. Besides, I do go in for stupid and you obviously do. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15400 Registered: May-04 | . Whoa! posting too late after a long day, "Besides, I do not go in for stupid and you obviously do." I'm waiting for $2k spikes. . |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15225 Registered: Jan-08 | Your answer is there azz hole! https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1909396#POST1909396 |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15408 Registered: May-04 | . What is wrong with you, p-head? Is my saying this once just not good enough for you to understand? https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1909403#POST1909403 . |