NAD T762 already with v1.22 firmware and still skipping
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alain | I'd like to thank Hawk here who have been helpful in my decision to purchase the T762. I recently purchased a T762 thinking that the v1.22 firmware solves the problem (skipping the first millisecond of a cd track using digital connection) but the problem persists. I dont want to use the inferior DACs on my DVD player btw. The unit pretty much ok aside from that problem. I'm already thinking of sending it back and having my money back.. Any inputs on this? |
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Hawk | alain: I have read this complaint on three different threads now, and from an earlier thread, it should be apparent that this is a problem that is common to all brands whenever you use your DVD as a CD player and go from listening to a DVD to listening to a CD , and you are using the digital audio connection between the two units. So, it isn't going to be solved by buying a different receiver in this configuration because every receiver's processor will need a second or two to detect that it is receiving a stereo signal, not a DD signal from teh DVD player and switch formats accordingly. For a cheap fix, buy a separate CD player. Use a digital connection to use the NADs DACs, so it doesn't have to be an expensive player. Regardless of the type of receiver you have, you would need to do this. Good luck |
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alain | hawk, i guess this the only option i have other than buying another receiver brand. i like the sound of NAD though so i'll probably get a NAD cd or dvd player. btw, NAD tech support tells me they dont have this problem using NAD cd/dvd players. tnx very much for the info, hawk. alain |
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Anonymous | Hawk: I am sorry but I have to disagree with you about your statement. There are many receivers that do not exhibit this skip. I personally have had Sony and Yamaha with no such experience. And it did not matter whether I used DVD or CD players to spin the disk. I have connected a Denon CD player via a coaxial digital cable to use the receivers superior DAC(as you correctly pointed out). It did not make a difference. It still skipped. The only way I found out to get around this problem is use analog out from the CD player, which of course defeats the purpose of using the "superior DAC" in the receiver. This arrangement also prevents one from using the HDCD decoding ability of the receiver. I don't have a single HDCD disc but for those that have collections, that may be an additional heartburn. NAD's response to Alain that there are no poblems with NAD CD/DVD players is ridiculous. It is like saying that "our car, the Exomobile 2 has no problem running on Exon oil but may have some issues with Shell or Chevron" If NAD knew that their receivers will have some problems with other CD/DVD players except their own, they should inform their customers, like Alain and me. |
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alain | anon: yes i do believe NAD should have informed us regarding this "bug" which is supposed to have been fixed on the 1.22v firmware. just to let you guys know, i instead had my NAD T762 replaced by a Marantz SR7300 ose yesterday. Nice receiver too and no problems with it. NAD sounds just a bit better (only a bit) on some CDs but I'm still happy with the Marantz sound and functionality. alain |
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John A. | alain writes "NAD tech support tells me they dont have this problem using NAD cd/dvd players." Anonymous writes "NAD's response to Alain that there are no poblems with NAD CD/DVD players is ridiculous" Not only is it ridiculous, it is wrong. I have an NAD receiver/player combo and the skip is there. Personally it does not bother me. The skip is less than one second, I never want instant action from a CD or DVD, and savings made on the time the processor takes to switch are like saving with the on-screen display; I happily trade those for great sound. I also use the analogue connection for CD, and would be grateful if most DVDs skipped about the first five minutes and went straight to menu. But Alain's report of what NAD tech said is disturbing. NAD would be advised to guard its reputation for honest separation of technical issues from marketing ones, and high standards of customer support. |
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Johnny | I don't know why, but I feel like I must keep chiming in here to come to the defense of NAD. Not all NAD T762 receivers are bad. Only a few of them are, and it just so happens that these few people all have written here. I am sure for every person who has had a negative experience with NAD there are 20 who have nothing but good things to say about them. Alain, You say that NAD should have told "us" about the problems. First of all, how would they have told you? Second of all, I think the reason they didn't say anything is because the problem is not that wide spread. I obviously don't know the exact percentage of units that have problems, but why would they tell you "just so you know, about 5% of our units have problems"? I see this in the same regards as buying a car. I buy mostly Ford cars...I have had many in the past and all of them have performed better that I could have ever imagined. There are others though, who have had major problems with Fords and do their best to dissuade others from buying them. Is that to say that all Fords, or even most Fords are bad and that I just "got lucky" with the many that I have had...obviously not. Is a Ford dealer going to say to me as I am buying the car "I just want to let you know that a few people that have bought this car have had problems with it"? Absolutely not. My best advice to those who are thinking of buying an NAD is to go listen to one, and if you like it, which I am sure you will, then buy one. Don't judge based on the few that have had problems. The vast majority of NAD's, like Ford's, will have no problems and give you a lifetime of pure listening pleasure. |
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Anonymous | >>>I don't know why, but I feel like I must keep chiming in here to come to the defense of NAD. Not all NAD T762 receivers are bad. Only a few of them are, and it just so happens that these few people all have written here. I am sure for every person who has had a negative experience with NAD there are 20 who have nothing but good things to say about them.<<< If thats true then where are those 20 happy customers? I think NAD should be stayed away from and lets all see if the new 4's are any better before we rule them out all together. This year is a make or break for NAD. If they fuc.k up again they will be desolved. IMHO. |
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Johnny | Anon, There are several regular posters on this site who sing the praises of NAD often. To name a few, Hawk, John A., and others. Why do people post to this site? Usually it is to get advice on a purchase or a problem they are having. It makes sense then that a lot of the postings will be negative. If they are having no problems with their receiver, then why post to the site? Obviously you have had a bad experience with NAD. That is fine, you are entitled to your opinion and I welcome your comments and experiences. If I had had a significant problem with them, who knows, maybe my tune would be different. All I have to go off of are my experiences and the experiences of others on this board who love the NAD's. However, to proclaim that it is a make or break year for them and that if they don't improve, they will be dissolved I think is a huge oversimplification. If you had a bad experience then that is fine, you don't have to buy any more, but don't da*n them to everyone else. 90% of the people out there will likely buy an NAD and never have any problems with it. |
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GT | Its a fact of life the people generally complain about bad service and rarely say anything about good service. I'm sure if you're cable goes out intermittently you'll call and complain immediately but if it is working wonderfully for 6 months you won't call the cable company and thank them for a good product. People expect good products or services and only speak up when it doesn't meet expectations. It's much more common to complain that compliment others or services. We all tend to dwell on the negative. Bill Buckner had close to a Hall of Fame career. 2700+ hits, .290 batting average but if you mention his name to someone, they'll tell you he was the guy who let the ball roll thru his legs in the World Series. 1 negative will overshadow a lifetime of positives. NAD isn't close to being dissolved. Shoot, Bose continues to put out an overpriced, low quality product year after year and they're doing wonderful. |
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Johnny | Thank you GT...I couldn't have said it better myself. I appreciate hearing from someone who is not ready to bury NAD. |
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Anonymous | GT; Johnny; You guys have a point in telling those of us who complain about some issues regarding NAD receivers. I agree with GT that NAD will continue to make excellent products. However, I am pretty certain they will listen more to some of us who are experiencing these real world problems. I will even challenge what GT is saying "I am sure for every person who has had a negative experience with NAD there are 20 who have nothing but good things to say about them." When it comes to skipping, and other software issues, how do you know the ratio is 20:1? I actually believe the skipping is a phenomnon identified by NAD where they have tried to blame it on other CD players or improperly recorded CDs. If you ask me, NAD either has already solved this problem (with a faster detection and switching device)or is feverishly working on it. Here is why I think they will change their electronics. There are numerous manufactureres whose receivers do not show this characterstics. If they can do it, so can NAD. It is all a matter of cost, priority and personal prefereneces. Some on this and other forums have stated, they are not concerned about the loss of half a second of the first song or track. Yet this same people may complain about fan noise! which for me is secondary. Fan noise, hum at quiet periods when plaing DVD or watching HDTV (at high volumes), slow format locking, and skips are all somethings NAD should and will address. That is how firms get better. If they just sit on their laurels and dismiss customer complaints as insignificant or worse as an acceptable rate, I don't believe they will last long in a competetive world. As to Johnny's parallel of a 5 % Ford car lemon rate; that is is also a point well taken. We don't expect NAD to do that. It is quiet true that more complaints than praises are being written on these forums. This is not necessarily bad. Imagine if none of us write about our problems. Visitors will read and think that this forum is populated by NAD fans only and may think (incorrectly) that they will not get any objective opinions. This is inherently unfair to NAD, which built its reputations virtually by word-of-mouth and excellent reviews from the audiophile press! But if you have noticed, few, if any, of the audiophile magazines every write about reliability history. The only place to get that kind of info for a prospective buyer is a forum like this one. Without ecxageration, I have read virtually all the home web pages of manufacturers that I was looking as potentail purchases for me;Rotel, NAD, Outlaw Audio, Marantz, Integra, Anthem, B & K, including the big Japanese manufactureres and finally decided, to purchase the T 762. I loved the sound and was the winner for me at the price. And I wanted to give the reciver the benefit of the doubt. I, like most of you, appreciate musicality, and am an 80:20 music/HT person. That is why I now have the receiver in my room for the last 4 weeks. I have purchased a much better line conditioner/voltage stabilizer, have stopped using the digital out from the CD and will try everything else before deciding what to do. If it means going up one more model to the new 773, I will pay the difference as long as the issues are resolved. As I said, I like the sound, but if the DSP and software continue acting up, heck, I would rather get the two channel C320 or something like that and start looking may be at the Rotel five channel receiver. I can use the two channel for music and pair it with the Rotel for 6.1 surround. As far as this receiver goes you will not hear any more complaints from me. I am done. I do appreciate your insight and appolgize if I have offended any one. |
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GT | "I will even challenge what GT is saying "I am sure for every person who has had a negative experience with NAD there are 20 who have nothing but good things to say about them." I never said that... |
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GT | HK had a reliability problem with the x10 series, then the x20 series had problems shutting down intermittently and a couple models had problems with Logic 7 when using 7.1 channels. With the x25 these appear to have all been resolved but people complain about the digital delay and the fan. Now the x30 series is available and it looks like only the 330 has a fan. I've never heard my fan come on with my 325 but less units have it in the new models. One would hope that each year a manufacturer improves on the previous models shortcomings plus adds enhancements. I think HK is addressing this as well as NAD. Lets wait and see how the 743/753/773 perform. It is correct that these forums provide users a place to discuss receiver issues. I'm sure the manufacturers read this and other audio forums. It definitely helps make a future product better. But lets all understand that with all this technology, it's almost impossible to make a perfect device. And at a certain point, even firmware updates won't resolve everything. Then its time to come out with a new model. It's kinda like Windows software. Microsoft seems to send out bug fixes every week. At some point they'll just release a new operating system and convince us to buy it. |
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alain | gt/johnny/john a and the others, i'd like to explain further why i had come to choose the NAD t762 (before i settled for the marantz sr7300 ose). my research on the internet led me through your site and hawk who has been very helpful with my decision then. I'm not sourgrauping about NAD tech support. They actually respond quickly to my emails. The only thing I found disturbing is that they knew I know about the skipping problem and they had a unit with v1.22 specially delivered to bay bloor radio (bay bloor only had a v1.20 in stock). There was no mention from NAD (I was on constant touch with them before the purchase) that the v1.22 solved this. If only NAD told me before the purchase that a v1.22 doesn't solve the problem, I wouldn't have wasted my time asking for it. Other than that I still find the NAD very good in audio. I just found the skip annoying as I would wanted to use the DACs on the NAD (my dvd player has inferior DACs). alain |
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Johnny | Anon, Thank you very much for your post. I truly appreciate your sensible attitude toward all of this. I think all of us here welcome logical opinions, good or bad, as opposed to simply joining the NAD bashing party out of spite. Alain, Thank you for your clarification on your situation. Your statement "i do believe NAD should have informed us regarding this "bug" which is supposed to have been fixed on the 1.22v firmware" is definately warranted. I hope you enjoy the Marantz. |
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| i do agree for what GT said, its a human nature for the peple to complain the bad things and not even mentioned the good things i was hooked in bang & olufsen equipments, but honestly i was really interested in NAD T752 to be paired with my B&O beovox speakers any1 out there having experience pairing those piece of box??? or any though will be appreciated i am working here in middle east and we have NAD dealer just a shout away. thanks johnny23 |
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Hawk | Most of the complaints posted about NAD receivers have to do with this half second or so of "skipping" when using a digital output. I have excerpted a portion of a post on another thread that describes the same problem with a Marantz 5300: "My question here is as follows. I linked the receiver and dvd player both with analog and optical digital cables. When listening audio CDs using the digital connection, the first 1/2 second or so of the first track of every CD I use is being skipped. In analog mode, this does not happen. Quite irritating, does anybody know why this is happening (and what can be done about it)? The manual isn't particularly helpful... " I am telling you folks, this is common. I have been using the analog inputs on my Denon since I got it, but over the weekend, I borrowed a digital cable from a friend to try it on my receiver and guess what? Same thing! It skips when using a digital cable. Alain: Hey, give us a report on the 7300ose! I have a lot of people ask me about that unit and none of the Marantz dealers in my area have both the 7300 and the 7300ose hooked up so that I can compare them. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on the product. |
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alain | hawk, On the short time i've had with the marantz 7300 ose, i'd say that it is so much close to the NAD sound. too close that some of us wouldn't mind (and actually know) the difference. the good thing i find with the marantz was it was at home with all kinds of music (IMHO), (the NAD T762 had this artificial sound on some pop CDs-one in particular, The Corrs). I wonder why but it could be just me. the marantz at times sounded bright though with my dynaudio audience 60 speakers but you can always tone it down with the treble (and bass also) buttons on the remote. very clever functionality. movie dialogue sounded very clear and lifelike and it had no problems driving my dynaudio audience 120 center (which is huge center and goes down to 37hz by specs). i was watching the phantom menace last sunday and i was so engrossed with listening to it that i finished watching the DVD  . i also tested it on the sound of music thx dvd and it was magnificent. havent had the time to drive it to extremes yet though. maybe this weekend. btw, i use all dynaudio audience speakers: front: 60s center: 120 surround: 40s a very forwarding sound and a pronounced midrange. tweeters sound very natural and not metallic. very nice if you like listening to vocals (which most of us do) ;) . may sound too forward for some though. alain ps. hawk, could you give me your personal email as i have some other questions to ask you? tnx ;) |
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alain | hawk, oopss sorry, if possible pls leave your email at my email addy: neomatrix_23@yahoo.com thanks a lot. alain |
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AK | Hi all, This site has been very informative to me...I am about to buy a T752 and at least I know what I am about to get into by reading all these constructive feedbacks. By the way it will be very helpful for people to start putting their unit's manufacture date with messages. At least by doing so, all of us will have some idea of when the frequency of problems rose since T752 was introduced. Perhaps we can convey that information to NAD if they care to know... We all can be a part of good consumer watchdogs as well as audiophiles. By the way I am still buying T752 because I fell in love with the way it sounds despite all these known problems.... Wish me a good luck! |
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Well Wisher | Hi AK, GOOD LUCK! |
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AK | Hi guys, Here is another post I ran across today on a different site http://www.avforums.com/... Clearly early T752s must had some OSD related defects. By the way I am still waiting for my order of T752 to come in....:-) gonzo, I know NAD sounds better..and i really like how it sound thats why i bought it in the 1st place. I auditioned Marantz, Denon and Onkyo but NAD gives me the sound i want. Im from the Philippines, the probleme here is they only give u 1 year of warranty in parts and services and only 1 store sell NAD products. NAD came here just about 3 months ago, so the T752 model is very new here in the philippines although in other countries they released it about early last year. There are only 5 owners of NAD T752 including me, here in the philippines, i know coz i asked the store on how many has bought the T752, though many people here owns its older brother the T51 and the T61. Out of the 5 owners, three of us returned our unit coz of Unit problems, though we encountered different problems, but the ticking and the noise problems in analog sources is evident in all our unit, including those unit that are still being sold. I also dont mind of the ticking and the noise problems, but what worries me are the other propblems that i stated specially the one which suddenly increased my volume to +18. Another thing is ,the two other owners also encountered the sudden increase of volume in which one owner destroyed his rear surround speaker the other his subwoofer. Its good wharfdales speakers didnt blow up, maybe because the wharfs is very hard to drive due to its very low sensitivity. I think the models that they released here in the philippines have a very serious problems for them to temporarily stop the marketing of the T752 here. Due to our complain with NAD, they let us bring back the unit and left us with this e-mail. E-Mail From NAD: "Sorry for the inconvenience that has been cause by the bug on the OSD of the NADT752. Our product engineers has able to find-out recently the cause of this problem and will soon be fixing it. Momentarily we are not releasing T752 in the market. Like responsible manufacturers (ex. Toyota or Honda) we are going to solved the problem head-on. Please also don't see this as the whole product line-up problem, but a limited on this model. In in as much as we would like to release worry free units, there are certain things that we cannot control due to situation varies a lot. Like any manufacturers, we would like to say again our apologies and thanks for your feedback. I hope you understand that this is not how we do business and I hope your continue support to NAD." |
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John A. | AK, I replied to that post on https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/5817.html |
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matthew dow | For what it's worth, I have both a NAD t762 and a Rotel RSX 1055 in my home hooked up to a 5 year old Sony DVD/CD player (via digital coax). The NAD skips the first ? milliseconds; the Rotel does not. At first I thought it was only when skipping to a track, but I found some CDs where it skips when you play through continuously. Problem is solved w/analog cables. |
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Anonymous | It shouldn't skip at all. Your problem is still there. You just have to limit your options because NAD's engineers suck!!!! |
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Johnny | Anon, I disagree. There have been plenty of other folks on this forum who have had every type of receiver from Onkyo to Denon to NAD, and many have reported the same millisecond skip. It is definately not unique to NAD. It occurs when the receiver is trying to recognize what sort of signal (digital or analog) that is coming into it. I think it is you who are limiting your options by making these remarks. You will be very hardpressed to find a brand of receiver that does not have this slight delay. If you don't like the skip, then that is fine, don't buy an NAD or any other brand that has this very minor fault, but don't make ignorant and baseless accusations about the engineers at NAD. |
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Johnny | Anon, Just an addition...see the above posting from Hawk on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 07:15 pm. It seems that the engineers from Denon and Marantz must all "suck" then too. |
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nadhungry | Has anyone had a chance to listen to or review the new nad t973 multichannel amplifier and the associated t163 preamplifier. Should I buy a intergrated receiver likethe nad t762/763 or these two separates? The difference in price is not a concern only whether I get any audible or other benefit? Also is there a difference between the T762/763 (763 is possibly the replacement to iron out all the bugs..) and the t773? |
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