Approach to building a new system
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Bronze Member Username: DanoncPost Number: 21 Registered: Oct-07 | Hi all, First of all, I just wanted to preface this post with a "thanks" to everyone who has given me great advice over the last couple of years. Art, Frank, Jan, Nuck (and anyone else I've left out) - I sincerely appreciate it. So, I recently got engaged (~6 months ago) and married (a few weeks ago). My new spouse loves music as much as I do, which is so great and makes me so happy.....We spend a lot of time listening to music. We've decided that although we enjoy listening to my current system, some upgrades are in order. My current setup is a Rega P2 w/ Elys, Rotel 1062 integrated, 1072 cd player and B&W 685 speakers, all cabled with van den hull cables. We listen to lots of jazz, acoustic music, some older pop and rock, but mostly music with acoustic instruments. We love the Rega so much, because of the timbres of the instruments and the way it's just so much more musically involving than the Rotel cd player. Unfortunately, a lot of our favorite music isn't available on vinyl. So, we are trying to decide how to improve on our current system. We have a budget of around 3k, and are thinking speakers and amp with a good phono section. Is this the wrong approach? Could we create a substantially better system with that budget? Oh , by the way, she is a designer, so the look of the components is very important as well (she does not like the look of the B&Ws that we currently have). Any suggestions on places to start (e.g., source, speakers , amp), modifications to my though process, or even brands that might tickle our fancy would, as always, be greatly appreciated. Dan |
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Bronze Member Username: DanoncPost Number: 22 Registered: Oct-07 | Oops, that should say "thought process" in the last sentence. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 754 Registered: Jul-07 | What have you heard that you liked ? Do you want something similar to the Rotel / B&W sound you have now, or are you wanting to go in a different direction ? I'd start by wandering around an audio shop or three and see if you can find something that pleases both your ear and eye. See what your options are. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11478 Registered: Feb-05 | Hey Dan, congrats on the marriage. How wonderful to have a spouse who loves music. I think that 3k to improve your setup is pushing it. I would invite you to come and have a listen to my current setup and see if it sounds more like music to you and your wife. The new setup is DeVore, Sonneteer and the Rega Saturn. Might give you an some ideas around DeVore with solid state gear and since the Gibbon 8 and 3 (the one I would recommend for you) are very similar it might shed some light there as well. IMO you will have to hit the used market. You have a musicians ear and so I suspect that your present system probably lacks accurate timbre and that detracts from your enjoyment. Will you be able to add to your funds by selling your present gear? With your ear and budget I would recommend the Rega Apollo, an older MAC integrated and a used pair of DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 3's. If your present gear will be sold to help fund this effort you may be able to squeeze it all in, it would be tight. You should be able to get the Apollo for $500, the Gibbon 3's for $1000-1500 (and you would have to be patient as they don't come up too often) and the Mac for $1000-2000. If you could live without an onboard phono stage and add that later then that adds a few more options like a used Mastersound, Unison or Prima Luna tube amp. Just a start. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11479 Registered: Feb-05 | I know you didn't mention replacing the Rotel CD player but for your type of music I made that part of my initial recommendation. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11480 Registered: Feb-05 | There is a pair of beautiful mahogany Gibbon 8's at Audiogon right now for 2K. Just a thought, if you had considered a floorstander with a small footprint. |
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Bronze Member Username: DanoncPost Number: 23 Registered: Oct-07 | Art, Totally agree - the Rotel CD player will be history. The first speakers I suggested to her were the DeVores which she wasn't crazy about, but when I showed her the Totem floorstander line, she really liked them. Those have been her favorites visually so far. I think we have at least narrowed it down to floorstanders. I love the idea of an older Mac Integrated. I hadn't thought about that. Oh yeah, I will be selling my current system (minus the turntable). We also have 2 laptops (one mac and one non-mac) that we had considered turning into our digital source, especially with the plethora of good, affordable DACs on the market right now. Just some more thoughts. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11481 Registered: Feb-05 | Show her a picture of the Audiogon DeVore's in mahogany. If you're stuck with looks being a more important criteria than sound then you are in deep doo doo, my friend. Having owned both a mahogany in Totem and a mahogany DeVore I can tell you the finish on the DeVore is better quality. I have some pics I can share later or she can look at them first hand... A good DAC for the dough is the Cambridge DacMagic, very inexpensive and per some ears that I trust, even better than the Apollo...and for less than a used Apollo you can get a new DacMagic. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11482 Registered: Feb-05 | One more thing to think about is that with DeVore's biwiring is not an issue. They have wonderful Cardas single wire binding posts. Again I would recommend looking at them in Mahogany on Agon, you and she may be surprised. The grills that you get for the DeVore's attach magnetically, Totem, I believe, use velcro. If she insists on Totem then the Sttaf is the only one I can recommend as an affordable floorstander, the Arro is bright enough to peel paint off the wall. The Sttaf has a warmer presentation...still no competition for the Gibbon 8 IMO. |
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New member Username: Subwoofer1000Eugene, Oregon United States Post Number: 4 Registered: Sep-09 | Hey I know that Klipsch has some really nice lookin speakers, that should knock the style/looks problem out, and they have amazing sound, I know. But really, you should try and see about building your own with 3/4in MDF or fiberglass, I love building enclosures for my own drivers. And with custom, handbuilt gear, you really cant go wrong. |
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Bronze Member Username: DanoncPost Number: 24 Registered: Oct-07 | Art - yep, the Sttaf was really the only one I had been considering as I have heard that the Arro is insanely fussy about amplification. I've also heard that Naim seems to partner well with the Sttaf and their Nait5i is within the budget. Although, I'd have to find some place where I could hear them together. I don't think her dislike of the Devore is because of the quality of the finish. Don't get me wrong, the DeVore would have been my first choice! She is a visual designer and a professional photographer and went to design and art school. I can't explain why she likes certain things, but there is something about the shape of the Sttaff and the way the drivers are arranged that makes visual sense to her. So, that one is approved, at least on the visual front. But in terms of floorstanding speakers in the 1500 range that look fairly understated, and that would have the potential of being part of a highly musical system, I haven't found much. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2250 Registered: May-06 | Artistic design? Take a look at the Anthony Gallo Ref. 3.1s. Their covers come completely off for a dramaticly different look. You might find them on Audiogon within your price point. Skip the sub-amp for now. A few of us here have them, a couple of us run MAC gear to them. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11483 Registered: Feb-05 | Unfortunately Dan, the only Totem dealer in the area is Fred's in Portland and the Naim dealer is Stereotypes in Portland. I think that the Nait 5i-2/Totem Sttaf combo would be very good musically and good to look at as well. I'm not sure what all the design stuff has to do with it, as DeVore products have been used in some pretty upscale well designed NYC lofts...in the end it's about her preference. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I don't think she will approve of the Gallo's with or without the grilles...lol! |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 756 Registered: Jul-07 | I wonder if she'd like something like this Dan. Scroll to the bottom of the page to get the full view. Awesome speakers too. http://www.decware.com/newsite/Radials.htm |
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Gold Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1068 Registered: Jun-08 | Art's suggestion i.e. Naim 5i/2 with Totem Staff is a very nice pairs. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14138 Registered: Dec-04 | Gallo's are an aquired taste visually, but very satisfying acoustically. So they are out... |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 423 Registered: Dec-06 | What have you listened to/looked at thus far? I think the best bet is to go to some stores in your area and determine what gear you want to consider. One thing in your initial post, you said that you thought music coming from the P2 was more engaging than through the Rotel CD player. That was still being played through the Rotel amp and 685 speakers. This almost suggests then, that you kind of like that pairing, but maybe with a warmer and more musical source. Did that system (P2 with your amp and speakers) give you the sound you wanted, or was the sound lacking in some way? I realize you are almost committed to moving on to new speakers and an amp regardless. I am also putting together a new system and have landed on Monitor Audio RS5 speakers. The RS6 is the most popular in that line. The line was replaced with the RX series and so there are great deals now on the RS series. Might be worth a look. The speakers are quite striking, especially in the rosewood finish. Brands of amps and players I'm looking at are Creek, Rega, and Exposure; which are all known for their musicality. Exposure seems a little polarizing...I have come across those who absolutely love it and those who do not. The other two seem to be a bit more universally accepted, this is simply based on what I've read online. These three, along with Naim, may be worth some consideration. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2251 Registered: May-06 | DJ, we have no idea what she would like and the Gallo's are unique looking as well as an outstanding speaker. Let her see this;   |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2871 Registered: Jun-07 | BOING!!!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: EzntnGreeneville, TN Post Number: 86 Registered: Apr-09 | Well .. I was going to post that my Gallo's are nekkid .. & I acquired that taste at first listen. But .. after Nick's post .. not sure if I want to do that |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2252 Registered: May-06 | ROFLMAO! |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 424 Registered: Dec-06 | I've always loved the look of the Gallos - not an aquired taste for me. But for some reason I was under the impression that they were held in the same regard as Bang and Olufsen - lifestyle speakers but not serious sound. I guess that was the wrong impression. One day I'll be sure to listen to a pair. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzGold CoastAustralia Post Number: 2718 Registered: Nov-05 | But for some reason I was under the impression that they were held in the same regard as Bang and Olufsen - lifestyle speakers but not serious sound No, no Dan - they were built as props for Terminator. or was that Transformers. Well anyway . . . Seriously though, I have heard nothing but great reports about the Gallos besides from the suspect owners here :-) I don't think they'd embarass themselves against my Quad 22l's  |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3589 Registered: May-05 | I can't rely on any of the Gallo owners here. None of them reviewed them correctly. Using their ears, music, and listening for emotion is way too crude.  |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzGold CoastAustralia Post Number: 2721 Registered: Nov-05 | LOL! |
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Bronze Member Username: DanoncPost Number: 25 Registered: Oct-07 | Just to add to this post, my wife was the primary photographer for Cary Audio for a number of years, so she's definitely not new to the world of hi-fi. If you go to their website, most of the photos were taken by her. She really likes the look of tube amps, but I'm still a bit hesitant about tubes (they seem high maintenance). |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3591 Registered: May-05 | I agree with you there, Dan. If you're contemplating tubes, as has already been mentioned - Mac is great. Check out the Manley Stingray too. That thing sounds fantastic IMO. I don't think anyone will honestly be able to help you decide what your wife will like, from a visual perspective. Congrats on the wedding! |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 757 Registered: Jul-07 | Nothing high maintenance about many tube amps. Replacing a set of tubes every few years isn't high maintenance in my books. Many are self biasing which even takes that little chore away. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14140 Registered: Dec-04 | http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/gallo5/ref31.html How nice. Bryan here just aquired a Cary L80 tube amp and Gallo's...hmmm |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11486 Registered: Feb-05 | Actually the B&O flagship speakers have received critical acclaim...I still don't much 'em. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1360 Registered: Nov-06 | wow..... just wow.... that is all I can say about this thread |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 697 Registered: Oct-07 | Speakers should be purchased blindfolded. Aesthetics is one thing, but man, were talking SOUND here! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14146 Registered: Dec-04 | If Mama ain't happy, then ain't nobody happy. Words to live by. Also cited in 4 out of 5 divorce schedules... |
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Bronze Member Username: DanoncPost Number: 26 Registered: Oct-07 | Well said, Nuck! |
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Bronze Member Username: DanoncPost Number: 27 Registered: Oct-07 | Oh, and she said no way to the Gallos. I think a very traditional, more sparse look would be more to her liking. But I wish I had more to audition than just Totem. We have a lot of acoustic instruments that would be sharing the same space, so that's something I'm also considering (the look of guitars and mandolins in the same room). |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2253 Registered: May-06 | Have you looked into Kef's? |
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New member Username: Subwoofer1000Eugene, Oregon United States Post Number: 5 Registered: Sep-09 | This is really boring. It sounds like an undercover secret sex talk chatroom. no offence. to nuckels, artsy, or dann the man. Or any others I may have left out. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzGold CoastAustralia Post Number: 2729 Registered: Nov-05 | Well Chris, no one forced you here. Why not try reading 'Little Women" or something even a bit more exciting? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11495 Registered: Feb-05 | Chris from Eugene...why don't you start another thread with your interests. Perhaps it would be more exciting to you and then you wouldn't have to crap on this thread, C'est La Vie! Dan perhaps you could look at Spendor. Beautiful speakers, very traditional in nice finishes. I also think that they meet your requirements relative to timbral accuracy. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 364 Registered: Aug-04 | Just remember, artistic design is not often inclusive with musicality. To my ears, my preferences; I've found quite the opposite. How a speaker looks, is hardly an indication of musicality. I hope you find both one package. But audition, audition....audition. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11497 Registered: Feb-05 | Another speaker worth trying to audition is Audio Physic...have her look at the recent catalog for Spendor and Audio Physic. Then plan a trip to your local or regional dealers for an audition. Have favorite music, will travel! |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 368 Registered: Aug-04 | Okay, I didn't want to say it earliar because it may come off too tacky. But what the hell. I have a pair of Jamo C807 floorstanding speakers for sale, on audiogon. In the Dark Apple finish. The price is outstanding for these speakers. I got another pair in the black finish to match our new decor, so I'm selling these. You want musicality? These speakers are superbly musical and they convey melody, beautifully. They are well balanced sounding speakers. Smooth, a very organic timbre to instruments and they do strong bass. They do NOT have real wood veneers. And I highly doubt your wife will find their aesthetics all that artistically designed. Although, I think they do have a very subtle and plain artistic aesthetic to them. But that may just be me. These speakers will bring your system to a new level, compared to the B & W you have. Acoustic bass, cellos, violins and pianos are exceptional. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14244 Registered: May-04 | . http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-hptb5&p=harbeth%20audio&type= They do not play well with Rotel. Investigate Rega's integrateds or Unico as possible companions, Sugden if you can tolerate a class A room heater. A McIntosh integrated would pair well though the combination could prove rather uneventful for those more interested in histrionics than music. Without hesitation I would suggest a Jeff Rowland Design Group product but that would pretty well shoot holes through the budget and only get you 3/4 of an amplifier. In tube type amplifiers the Harbeths would pair well with a PrimaLuna integrated which have McIntosh style transformers and auto-bias. All reports indicate they have proven to be all but maintenance free. Dollar-wise I doubt you can do much better than the PL's. With any of the above mentioned electronics you then hot rod the Rega P-2 and buy a value oriented high quality digital source. Digital is on the cusp of change over to hard drive sourced systems. You might investigate this link; https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/582169.html, to find more information on a high value system that absolutely challenges most hardware based systems at a fraction of the cost. Throughout the line Harbeths are a relatively easy load for any quality amplifier though of sufficient quality to be embarrassing to a poseur. This would allow you to spend more on the source and speakers or spend more on a top notch subwoofer to pair with one of the smaller Harbeths (a combination I tend to prefer in any room other than a dedicated listening space). These are monitor quality speakers that are ultimately musical and articulate, everything B&W exemplified at a period in time just before they went mass market and aimed their sound at the US listener (think mid '80's JBL without the edge). IMO the Harbeths are well worth seeking out for an audition. Do not expect to be impressed, just to hear music as it was meant to be heard in a domestic setting. The small Harbeths, a PL integrated and a server based digital source should put you slighty over your stated budget so you might consider what you get for the money spent. Not having heard that exact system I would expect it to provide a definite "diminishing returns" stopping point along the continuum of spending more and getting less vital improvement in return. Much more difficult to find in a store would be any well built Lowther; http://www.brinesacoustics.com/Pages/LT-2000/Main.html The direct from the factory Magnepan MMG's are also a consideration that can provide large degrees of musical satisfaction at a minimal cost and pair quite well in most rooms with the PL amplifiers. That combination should keep you well within your stated budget which will leave you money to travel to the cities where these products can be auditioned. . |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 369 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan, Have you had any experience with the Harbeth Super HL5? Any thing you could tell me about these? I've been mulling over an audition of these. Thanks. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14245 Registered: May-04 | . No experience, sorry, there are no dealers closer than San Antonio for the line. Harbeth is what Harbeth is however, very much like Mac is Mac. You either find both lines intriguing for what they do not do or you look elsewhere. . |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 370 Registered: Aug-04 | Okay, thanks anyway. I'm waiting to hear back from the distributor, for authorized local dealers. Got their voice mail, yesterday. Hopefully I hear back from them today. I'm heading into Charlotte later this afternoon and I'd like to stop in for a a little listen. |
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Bronze Member Username: DanoncPost Number: 28 Registered: Oct-07 | Thanks for the suggestions! Spendor, Harbeth and Audio Physic are on the audition list, along with Naim, Rega, Primaluna, Unico and Mac integrateds. This is going to be fun! Maybe a trip to Portland early next week since we are going to be on vacation. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11498 Registered: Feb-05 | We have next week off too...thank the lord! Teri at Stereotyopes will have the Spendor, Rega and Naim gear. She is also listed as a Harbeth dealer but didn't carry them last I looked. She has the most beautiful store I've ever seen, just gorgeous. She also carries ProAc and Audio Research...would be a fun trip for you Dan. I'm not sure if anyone carries Audio Physic in Portland. I would also recommend a visit with Kurt at Echo Audio on 10th very near Powell's books. He often has nice used gear at reasonable prices. Enjoy! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14246 Registered: May-04 | . Same old audiophile approved gear getting you down? Try "Vintage that boogies"; http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/clsk.pl?spkrfull&1260828208&/Bozak--B-310-A-conc ert-grands- (http://www.stereophile.com/historical/1005bozak/) http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1265606987 (A Sam Tellig [Stereophile's former Audio Cheapskate now audiophile BS curmudgeon] favorite.) http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/tubegear_hub.php (MapleShade has a reputation for out of the ordinary products that simply play music exceptionally well.) (http://www.stereophile.com/historical/605fisher/) http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/44330.aspx (The PV5 in stock format has the most beautiful midrange I've heard from any audio component short of an OEM Saul Marantz original 7C that is priced beyond your reach and not always reliable. While the PV5 is not always completely accurate at the frequency extremes beautiful goes along way toward being happy with your music. Mate this to a vintage McIntosh or CJ power amp (a Dyna MkIII will do) and enjoy Frank and the rest of the Rat Pack Live at The Sands over and over and over - you won't want to turn this system off.) (Not vintage but the speakers will work with this well regarded amplifier; http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1266100477&/Red-Wine-Puri-T---Cl ari-T (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/clari_t.htm) (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue41/ca_rossi.htm) Pair the above amplifier with the Belarri tube based phono stage for a unique system that you won't see coming down the street every time you turn a corner; http://www.soundstage.com/vinyl/vinyl20080615.htm) Speaker placement dictated by which wall do they fit on. You won't need 10 AWG speaker cables and the amplifiers won't accept today's audio jewelry masquerading as an interconnect. Use sensible, good quality cables and enjoy the music without concerning yourself with what other components you could have auditioned/purchased. (The above vintage speakers are not recomended for third floor walk up apartments.) You're a bit late this year for the Rocky Mountain Audio fest but you might consider attending any of the audio festivals/shows coming to your area over the next few months. There are always some exciting non-commercial designers showing their latest concepts. If John Busch should be showing any of his open baffle systems at one of the shows, make sure you give a listen; http://www.ncdiyaudio.claub.net/Meeting06.html http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=311 . |
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