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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2759 Registered: Feb-07 | I was trouble shooting the other day (thanks to Nuck for the help). I found that my system at lower volumes sounded a little "unbalanced" at lower volumes. What I mean by that is that I found that vocals and cymbals were more pronounced on the right side, resulting in the entire soundstage sounding like it was shifted to the right. It was driving me crazy and I tried a whole bunch of things like swapping speakers, changing speaker cables, etc. One thing I decided to try was to remove my subwoofer from the signal path (I used the speaker level inputs on the sub from my Mac). Not only did this fix the problem (it sounds way more balanced) but it actually sounds just plain better! I was concerned about missing the low-end, but I find that I'm getting used to the Sttafs and find they put out more than enough bass. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10140 Registered: Feb-05 | Gasp! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2289 Registered: Nov-05 | David, I hope someone with experience can chime here and explain the 'why' - All things being equal (distance between speakers from listening position, speaker runs etc) I can't understand why using the Sub's speaker level inputs would throw things off balance as you stated. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2052 Registered: May-06 | I'll take room and placement of the sub for $100 please. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2761 Registered: Feb-07 | I'm thinking that perhaps the speaker level connections to the sub was a red herring, but I do think the sub had something to do with throwing off the imaging. For that reason I originally placed the sub smack dab in the middle of the speakers, but even that didn't make things balanced. Like Mike said, it probably has more to do with the room than anything else. The room is small (maybe 13x10) but there's a big projection TV, an opening to the stair landing on one side, a woodburning stove in the corner, and lots of assorted kids stuff in the room. Doesn't make for the most ideal listening space. Another issue is that I've found the Sttafs have a very distinct sweet spot. They're not like my MA's where I can sit way off center and not have the imaging thrown off. With the Sttafs you have to sit in the sweet spot and stay there. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 774 Registered: Jan-05 | Thinking about it logically, 2 speakers in a stereo format providing your music. Then another random one placed in a corner or elsewhere!? Its bound to offset ones musical experience. I found just that, when I had a subwoofer both will standmounts and floorstander. Depsite the (supposed) knowledge of not being able to tell where bass originates from below 80hz or so, i have to agree, music just sounds better from two speakers. Whilst its been tempting to get a subwoofer till fill out the bottom end, I've resisted. And hence buying some simply bigger speakers. Have to agree with you Dave, good call with this one! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2763 Registered: Feb-07 | Thanks JJ. Here's what I've found after a few hours of listening to the system without the sub. The music is tighter and faster. I think the sub's low frequencies were not keeping up with the Sttaf's relatively small drivers, and the music was getting muddied. Does this make any sense to you guys? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12884 Registered: Dec-04 | It makes perfect sense to me, along with some standing waves in the room cancelling out the bass that you were looking for, exposing the effects of the sloppy high roll-off of the velo with no cover. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2622 Registered: Jun-07 | I agree David. I find that sub usually muddies the music a bit, or at least makes it sound slower. Unless you buy something like this http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?prod_id=371 |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2765 Registered: Feb-07 | Dude, my wife will kill me. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2766 Registered: Feb-07 | So question Nuck, you mentioned: "exposing the effects of the sloppy high roll-off of the velo with no cover." Would the grill have any difference whatsoever on a sub/ |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2053 Registered: May-06 | Perhaps he meant "with nothing to hide the effects"... That is one advantage of the Gallos with the sub-amp on the 2nd coil, the subs are stereo and aligned with the rest, woofer (literally0, mid-range, and tweeter. I have not had that experience with them. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2768 Registered: Feb-07 | That makes sense Mike. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 847 Registered: Jun-08 | I've never liked my sub running with music in my setup but again, my sub's a Polk Audio and your Velo Dave may be a step up. Dave, if you're really looking for more bass and off-centre imaging, those Hawks do all that and give even more detail...you'll hear things you just don't with the Sttafs. I A/B compared the Sttafs with the Hawks and I agree you had to be front and centre for the imaging to lock with the Sttafs but with the Hawks you could get it off centre...and the bass on the Hawks is just sweet and surprising. They sound like they've got a sub in them...but again, I'm not trying to tempt you.....well,,,,maybe I am. LOL. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2770 Registered: Feb-07 | The Hawks on are my list. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3362 Registered: May-05 | David, I'm not a fan of subs for music due to the issues you're having. I've heard very few subs that genuinely blend well for music. Of those, none were really in my price range. If you want a sub, look into Totem's offerings and try to borrow one from a dealer to try at home. I'm pretty sure Totem designed their subs to integrate with their speakers. Not sure which was designed for the Sttafs, but I'm pretty sure one was. Totem strikes me as a music first company,and I'd be very surprised if they didn't test the matching sub out with the Sttafs and make sure music sounded right with it. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2293 Registered: Nov-05 | I have the diminutive 250 watt Anthony Gallo TR-2 sub and it performs flawlessly integrating in our system for movies and music. But I only use it in the surround system - all hi-rez music and movie formats. It will shudder the walls in an earthquake and give up unbloated, controlled punchy bass for music. |