Totem Hawk's
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 268 Registered: Jun-08 | I've got a line into a pair of Totem Hawk's in premium cherry including claws and a pair of beaks. They are 3yrs old with 600hrs on them. The guy selling them says they've got too much low end in his room - as he has them in a corner. Anyone care to share their thoughts on the Hawks? I've heard they are a little easier to work with than the Forests. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8036 Registered: Feb-05 | I understand that placement can be an issue with them due to the bass. Frank has considerable insight relative the Totem line. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 269 Registered: Jun-08 | Frank - would love your comments Dave - have you auditioned these? Nuck - how do the Hawk's stand up to your soon to come Mani-2's? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3314 Registered: Sep-04 | Cannot put Hawks in corners, period! Hawks are lovely speakers. They may look similar to Sttafs due to their size but they are a much more capable speaker with very few vices. Their main issue is that they need a bit of free space to work otherwise they sound congested and too bassy. Look at about 18 inches from the back wall and side wall as a minimum. Hawks haven't a snowball's chance in hell against Mani-2s...sorry...  |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11073 Registered: Dec-04 | I heard the Hawks a while ago in a small room. Not good. I heard the Mani-2 in the same room...vey good. The speakers were small space friendly. When put in a big room (14X25) they fell short, no matter the power input, they ran out of gas. But what a ride to get here, whew! If nybody has a comparitive speaker to match the Mani-2 sig, please offer it up. The Classe mono amps will just love them! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1878 Registered: Jun-05 | Sorry Frank gotta disagree with you,the Hawks are substancially cheaper than the Mani-2's go as low or lower,they have a fuller midrange,imgage and nearly soundstage as good as the Mani-2,they are much much easier to power which Mani-2's are 1 of the most inefficient speakers in loudspeaker history,everything about the Mani-2's points to super powerful amplifiers they really need biamped for them to show any of their talents,factor in their expensive stands,and the Hawks are a way better deal,the Hawk is the sweet spot of the Totem line.Nuck I'll give you 2 right of the bat,the Dynaudio C1's play lower and are much more capable everywhere an ditto for the Kef Ref 201/2,sorry guys but the Mani-2 is a bad investment,by the time you get done paying for the butload of amps that you probably dont like but you know you need their power rating,then you run into a speaker class price wise that the Mani-2 cant compete with,their are better alternatives that are better and much easier to live with. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1691 Registered: Feb-07 | I've heard the Hawks in passing a few times. I never seriously auditioned them since at the time they were a bit more than I wanted to spend (new). I've always heard them driven with serious gear (Bryston and Arcam). To me they are serious step above the Sttafs. Rated at 6 ohm as well, they going to be tad harder on your gear than the easy to drive Sttafs. |
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Bronze Member Username: BetamaxCanada Post Number: 56 Registered: May-07 | The Hawks are definitely easier to power than the Forests, and I agree with TA Williams above that the Hawk is arguably the best bang for the buck among the Totems. I AB'd them with the Forests and actually preferred the Hawks -- mids sounded a tad sweeter, while the Forests seemed a tad brighter, and either way the difference in sound wasn't worth the difference in cost to me. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 270 Registered: Jun-08 | Frank S. - I'm not sure how the Hawks would be easier to drive than the Forests. The Hawks have a nominal 6-ohm rating and the Forests have a nominal 8-ohm (with 6.7 ohms being the minimum). The sensitivity on both are about the same with the Hawk being slightly more efficient. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3319 Registered: Sep-04 | I never said that the Hawks aren't good. They're an excellent speaker in the right situation, but Mani-2s will floor Hawks every day of the week. As for the power they need, well, I've had an interesting time of it lately - it depends on the amp. My latest amp is much less powerful (85w) on paper than my previous two amps (160x2 biamped and 350wpc)and yet it drives my Mani-2s much better. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11084 Registered: Dec-04 | Frank, if you don't stop mentioning the Mani-2's I am going to have a jealous fit. |
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Bronze Member Username: BetamaxCanada Post Number: 57 Registered: May-07 | George, despite the specs, the Hawks seem noticeably easier to drive, and I've heard the same from others. Your mileage may vary, of course. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3322 Registered: Sep-04 | Nuck, Mani-2s Actually, I am beginning to consider moving them on (for something even better and even more expensive - of course). |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1885 Registered: Jun-05 | George the Forrest is just a very tricky speaker to setup,it has to be filled with leadshot,it needs the beaks the electronics have to be right,their a easy load,but you need the right type of sound for them,I've only heard them sound like their price once I had them in my house for 2 months and I could never get them to sound right,if you get the setup exactly right their damn good,but they are not a plug and play speaker. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 274 Registered: Jun-08 | Thanks Tawaun for that input. I like to tweak but I don't want a headache. Understand the need to use quality gear but don't want something that's too finicky. It sounds like the Hawks are a safer and more flexible route. Hey Tawaun - how would you compare the Hawks to the Inifinity Classia's you have? |
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Bronze Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 77 Registered: Dec-07 | Mani-2's Mani-2's Mani-2's, sorry Nuck. Frank, what speaker are you considering to replace the Mani-2's with? |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 275 Registered: Jun-08 | Heard the Totem Hawks last night. Very crisp, unbelieveable bottom-end regardless of their size. Seem to be very adaptable to various types of music. Good imaging. The guy had them hooked to a Bryston SP2 pre/pro and a Conrad Johnston 5 channel amp with Chord cables. It was a very musical system. I was quite impressed. They didn't seem to be as detailed with voices as the Magnepan 1.6R. Don't know what I'm going to do but all in all the Hawks are a great speaker. BTW - the Totem beaks did seem to have some smoothing effect on the sound - don't know if that's psycosematic. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 276 Registered: Jun-08 | Mani-2 Mani-2 Mani-2 Mani-2 Mani-2 Mani-2 to infinity an beyond!!! Sorry Nuck...couldn't resist. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1714 Registered: Feb-07 | There's only one thing left to do George. Buy them. Get him to throw the beaks in for free. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1886 Registered: Jun-05 | Well this is from memory so it would'nt really be accurate,but maybe it can give you some idea.The Hawks are little bit warmer with a little less topend extension,I would say the Hawks have a wider and deeper soundstage and they are a bit more laidback,the Hawks go lower in the bass,the Classia is tigher in the lowbass with better midbass definintion,the Classia's play louder,they both image like lasers,I like them both,but I really love the Classia's speed and top to bottom coherancey,but on the other hand I prefer the Hawks tone,the Hawks go really low in the bass,i know its hard to beleive,but that Scanpeek revolator is a amazng driver with rediculous excursion for its size it doesent cost $230 bucks per driver for nothing and im betting Totem tweaked it a bit to.Damn I really dont know,I would love to hear the Hawks on the gear i have now.The Hawks are almost as good as the Arro at the things it does amazingly,but its easier to live with with more force,its deffinetly the jack of all trades of the Totems,now that I think about it they really are pretty special. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 277 Registered: Jun-08 | And Tawaun - they've got really good WAF. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11088 Registered: Dec-04 | Frank, Steve, George dyin over here. George, take them home. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8098 Registered: Feb-05 | The Maggies may seem more detailed in the voices but enough experience listening to live voices and then hearing the Maggies tells ya that they are not accurate at all...easy to be seduced but in the end...That's how I hear 'em anyway. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1891 Registered: Jun-05 | Art that depends on what Maggie you hear if you spent a little time with the 3.6 or the 20.1 any of them with the true ribbon you would'nt say that you would swear thats as real as it gets. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1892 Registered: Jun-05 | Yep George my wife loved my Arro's,the Hawks,and the Forrest. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8107 Registered: Feb-05 | I have spent time with both the 3.6 and the 20.1...not in my home and indeed I like them...but I still don't find their presentation believable. I have one friend who has the 3.6 and would not own anything else...he loves it. Another aquaintance of mine bought the 20.1's to replace some huge infinity system he had and of course is really taken with them. Driven by classic Mark Levinson mono's it's a nice setup...whew.. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 279 Registered: Jun-08 | The Magnepan's are not for everyone but they are for some. 1st, by may tastes, they are pretty ugly. Just look like a pair of speaker covers without the speakers. 2nd, they are huge and awkward (not wife friendly). 3rd, they are a fair but of load at 4ohms and 86 db efficiency. That said, I found them very detailed, cast a very deep soundstage, were smooth sounding and had a very interresting midrange. The salesman wanted me to listen to them first and said I'd either love them and never go anywhere else or hate them. I think I broke his rule because I very much liked them but found I walked away with a smile but feeling that I'd heard something stange. It was weird because the vocals (and it was only the vocals) sounded as if you were listening to the singer from a couple feet away from a detail perspective but yet as if they were a good distance away from a soundstage perspective - very difficult to explain. The detail was kind of like the effect you get when you hold a cone to your ear, with all the details magnified, yet I would not describe them as being upfront in presentation. All in all, though I'm not sold I do have this desire to give them a second listen. I'm not over the Hawks though but haven't bought them. What can I say, I'm a procrastinator. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11093 Registered: Dec-04 | Today was supposed to be national procrastinator's day. But it has been put off. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 283 Registered: Jun-08 | LOL Nuck. If I can just convince my wallet and wife of that, then I'm off to the races. Interresting enough, the guy who is selling the Hawks is a CAM member. I auditioned them at his home (never met the guy before). He made me feel at home. Gave me the remote, access to his CD's and poured me out a scotch, with a top up. He even understood my situation and let me know that all things come in time. I made a friend. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8113 Registered: Feb-05 | Outstanding George...now go and buy those Hawks! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1893 Registered: Jun-05 | Thats good George,so i know your buying those Hawks,that alone makes him a friend for that price.lol |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3330 Registered: Sep-04 | George, No, it's not psychosomatic. If used correctly (i.e. 2 beaks per speaker on opposite corners with the front beak on the outside corner as viewed from the listening position), the beaks contribute a 0.5db attenuation in the treble. Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 287 Registered: Jun-08 | Hey Frank, Can you explain the science behind that? Is it the weigh of the beaks and how they are hollowed out on the bottom? I can understand if their contact is causing some kind of weight balancing in the speakers by sitting on top of the enclosure. I'm having a hard time with believing the change the environment the sound waves in the air travel through. If anything it's got to do with their physical contact and the resonances they produce through them receiving vibrations from the speakers - kind of like them acting as a driver themselves working off the vibrations they get from the speaker. Any thoughts? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3341 Registered: Sep-04 | I don't know the physics behind it. All I know is the following: The beak is designed to help reduce the lobing effect of tweeters. This means beaks are not as effective on inverted designs like Missions for example. 'Lobing' is a variation in sound, usually in the vertical plane caused by electromagnetism effects in the tweeter. By placing the beak on the top panel, it couples to the speaker. The conical shape inside the beak is designed to 'draw' energy into the top section. The curved top section of the beak is ridged and these ridges are a particular size and profile to disperse the energy absorbed in the lower area. When asked about the development of the beak, the story which Vince told me some years ago went something like this: somebody had been looking for a speaker that suited him for a long period of time (not sure how long). Eventually, said person found and bought Totem speakers. He had tried many speakers of significantly higher value than this particular pair of Totems (no idea what model so don't ask). Anyway, said person was an executive director at a company which had access to or was the maker of (I forget which!) supercomputers, and he was so impressed that he offered Totem the opportunity to use $100,000 of supercomputing time in development. The result of the development using this computer modelling was the beak. Not a lot of people know that.... |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 288 Registered: Jun-08 | Thanks Frank for providing that explanation and it seems to support my hypothesis i.e. that the beak actually captures the vibrational energy from the speaker cabinet and then re-transmits it. It appears it converts the vibrational energy = sound from the cabinet into a more desireable frequency pattern. Hmmm. Very interesting. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1895 Registered: Jun-05 | Funny,thing is the beaks have been measured by numerous hobbiest and experts knowone has no measurements to prove they work,but in practice they do,the beaks really make the soundstage super stable and makes the topend smoother. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1896 Registered: Jun-05 | Hey,Art I've got all the speakers packed up,for Roadway to pick them when they drop of the F5F,I have the Maggie SMGc setup now,WOW!!! with this great Class A power they sound very very good! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3345 Registered: Sep-04 | Tawaun, according to Vince you should be able to measure a 0.5db attenuation. 0.5db is a very measurable amount. |
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Bronze Member Username: BetamaxCanada Post Number: 58 Registered: May-07 | George, I almost bought those cherry Hawks you auditioned with the ad on CAM. The only reason I didn't is because I found a pair locally and don't have to pay for shipping. Those cherries look pretty sweet; someone is going to snap those up if you wait too long. I'm picking mine up later in the week, looking forward to it! |
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Bronze Member Username: BetamaxCanada Post Number: 59 Registered: May-07 | It's been a while since this thread was 'live' but I just found the post I was thinking of earlier re. Vince using a 60-watt amp with the Hawks but not the Forests. Actually the whole thread is Hawk vs. Forest, so it's good reading. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1129441423&openflup&5&4#5 As for me, I'm very happy with my Hawks, bought a mahogany pair only 3 mths old for 2/3 of list price. Sound great with my 60-watt Bryston B60. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 358 Registered: Jun-08 | Hey Frank, Good to hear you're enjoying your Hawks, they are wonderful sounding speakers. That guy who was selling them, finally sold them but that's o.k. as I wasn't really ready to buy now. At least I know now they are one of my top contenders. Enjoy the sound. |
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