Well, it has been a while since I have participated here but I have been busy rebuilding my system. I now own a Bryston 4B-ST, YBA 2 Dual transformer Pre-Amp, Cambridge Audio 840C CD player and Martin Logan Quests.
Totally different than what I had before however, so is the sound! Most of this gear was bought from a friend and was in mint condition.
I can tell you that those who have never listened to Bryston products.....please do so immediately! Amazing!
I really like the 840C as I like detailed sound and I tried a lot of players but this one always stuck out for the price.
It is very well made with quality parts and I had a chance to compare with YBA models and yes they are better but not night and day and especially not at 4 times the price.
I would probably upgrade but am reluctant with how the industry is going and what direction the future will hold.
Frank..........why do you ask that particular question?
Frank...........Unless you have been drinking, I have NO idea what you are talking about!!! Have I done something to you that made you want to "slice" me???
David I bought the 4B-ST used. It was in mint condition and not used very much since the person I got it from had 2! It is 9 years old and still has 11 years warrantee left!! I was really curious last night and opened the top panel and I was very impressed with the quality of construction. When they say these things are built like tanks, they were not kidding!
Bryston is a new discovery to me as I thought they were only pro gear. I did a lot of research and listening before buying and came up with this combination. The Martin Logans were a luck that a friend of mine decided to sell. They have brand new panels, woofers and a modified crossover and are HUGE! I am very happy.
I am not really sure how I fell into this type of equipment because I was pretty happy with what I had but when the Quests came along, it was obvious I needed more power and current because they operate within 2 to 4 ohms and my little Cambridge 840A, as good as it is for the money, was hurting really bad!
The YBA pre-amp is a great match and makes a big difference.
Dan, Frank is a transplanted Brit who sells good gear on weekends. His wit is dry, and the terminology is sometimes a query to understand if you do not speak it very often. Cracks me up.
Your kit looks like a very good setup from models alone, I cannot see a componant that doesn't fit(except maybe the player, but thats just on paper).
Frank has respect for your gear that is why he was kidding with his question Danman.
Danman were on Audiocircle? I swear I read something on there about the ML Quests and a 4bst.
How do you find setting up the ML speakers? They are known as one of the hardest speakers to get the placement right. By the sounds of it, you have no complaints. Love you 4bst. Power house.
CORRECTION: the amp is 11 years old and has 9 years left on the warrantee NOT the opposite as I previously wrote.
Nuck the CD player is much better than you would imagine. Probably the best piece of gear CA makes.
Yes Nick I am on Audiocircle. James Tanner was the one that lined me up on the 4B-ST. Great man and company to have helped me this way. You would never think a company would actually help someone buy a used piece of their gear BUT he knew I would like it and will buy more!
The Quests are easier to set up than you would think. However, my room was more of the problem. I made some bass traps and wall treatments to help with an annoying echo I had. Now the sound is really nice. I am still experimenting with toe in and distance from the wall to get the soundstage right and tighter bass. With the Bryston, you have to be careful of the new extra bass since this amp is fanatastic in this area!
I am looking for a used BP-20 pre amp from Bryston as I used one the other day and it actually sounded better than the YBA!!! I guess the Synergy thing DOES mean something. I wish the guy I borrowed it from would sell it. I also got a used Cambridge 840A to sell!
I still have NO idea what Frank was trying to say! I did not take it personally only because I am confused as to the meaning of it!?
Thought that was You Danman. I read that whole thread. Yes James Tanner is incredible over on AudioCircle. He answers everyone's questions very quickly, and I seen that he pointed you to that used Bryston. He has even gone as far as to ask everyone on how he should go about doing the upgrade from the SP2 to the new SP3 due out in a few months. People on the forum were mad because they have this home theater pre amp and the new one will do the HD audio formats and has 8 HDMI inputs on it. He said, I will do a fair trade up, for some extra money, or you can pick one thing for free of the new features to upgrade to. How is that for a owner/VP of a company?lol
Not an ordinary company! They seem to take customer satisfaction to the extreme!! I am really impressed with the sound to be honest! Wish I would of discovered them earlier in my "Audiophile" career!
I must apologize profusely. I was - how do you say - 'yanking your chain'. And it appears I was doing so very poorly.
Back on topic, YBA and Bryston do go together well, but I suspect you're right when you say the Bryston preamp is that much better in the context of your system than the YBA. I get the impression (just an impression because I have limited exposure to the brands) that there is a synergistic match when using the Bryston pre and power together.
As for the Quests, I like some of the things they do, particularly the wonderful midrange and treble qualities, but I remain somewhat nonplussed by the bass which I find of sufficient quantity but lacking in finesse by comparison to the rest of the frequency range. This remains Martin Logan's biggest problem which is very difficult to surmount since the electrostatic portion is so fast by comparison to the more traditional cone section.
All that said, I'd argue (strongly) that the weak link in your new system is actually your CD player! The CA840 is one of CA's best ever (I still recall the 4SE fondly) but in this company it's definitely the kid that brought a knife to a gunfight. Seriously, items such as the Bryston BCD-1 or anything in competition to that would be the minimum I'd be looking at. The rest of your system has more than enough fidelity to allow through the enhanced signal - and that will blow you away...
I mentioned that I know the weak link is my CD. Not a HUGE weakness but never the less! I want to wait and see what the industry is going to do with cd's but the BCD-1 is in the corner of my eye.
I much prefer the ML bass than what I had in my Focal 936 before which was a 7000$ speaker!
The BCD-1 is a great CD player. I think a better purchase would be the Bryston BDA-1 DAC. Not only is it far more flexible, its also $700 cheaper. I quickly heard the BDA-1, and it sounded better than the BCD-1. I didn't hear it for any real length of time, nor side by side, but it sounded at least every bit as good as the BCD-1. If I had to bet, I'd say it sounded better.
I'd look into that before a dedicated CD player at this point, but that's just me.
Also, if you have a Bryston pre-amp, Bryston can install a DAC into it. It costs about $1250 here. Not sure about in Canada.
DanMan, I too have an 840c. It IS a wonderful player and the extra inputs will come in handy when I run a line over from the confuser. One glitch, though. I had not 1 but 2 delivered DOA. Both were minor, fixable right at the shop things, but disturbing nonetheless. In each case I suspected shipping damage. Enjoy.
"Martin Logan.........you love them or you don't!"
I don't love them but I respect them as excellent speakers. No to my taste but excellent none-the-less. I've learned to appreciate audio designs that aren't to my taste for my own pesonal system but that objectively sound good and ML's are one of those.
Stu, I have never experienced a DAC so I have no comment. I am sure that I will do so sometime in the future. My CD player will do fine for now because like I said, I had the chance to listen to some fine machines here at home because I wanted to check which end of my audio chain would be effected the least by not changing right away and it ended up being the player as I was surprised to notice how good it really was for the price. I know it has recieved numerous praise but I never really pay much attention to reviews until I experience first hand. I believe the 840C to be one of those products that can be considered a true hi-fi bargain. However, I am also convinced that it will never last as long as the other pieces of gear I have now!
Art, I appreciate your comment. I used to think the same way about ML speakers until I really critically listened to them. With the proper amplification they can really shine but they are not an easy speaker to drive or set up.
Stu, the DAC may have sounded better but what transport was it used with? This can make a big difference.
Dan - I am in a similar boat to Art. I respect what MLs do (and love that midrange), but in the final analysis they're not what I'm after. FWIW, I think the 840 is the weak link by a country mile. Luckily you won't find out until/unless you hear something in the right range in your system. Don't do it, until/unless you can afford it!
Totally agree Frank and as I said, ML speakers are not for everyone! I find them plenty punchy in the bass area where most say it is their critical problem. I think the Bryston does have something to do with that because they have terrific bass control. I also have modified crossovers and woofers and new panels so that probably helps. I don't know about a subwoofer but I was thinking maybe a JL Audio model as they really are impressive.
As for the CD player, well I did have the chance to listen to some players from YBA that I liked a lot but were about 8000$ It was still not night and day as you point out. HOWEVER, the biggest change in sound came from the pre-amp not the CD player. The YBA and Bryston pre-amps were comparable but the Bryston wins out for me. More dynamic with better timing in my opinion. I am looking for one as I have a buyer for the YBA alpha 2.
I want to watch what is happening with CD's before making a change. Maybe a DAC would be the better way to go but I have no experience with that yet. I am still setting up my sound room and all its acoustical treatments first.
DanMan, What is your room treatment plan? I am in roughly the same place, needing to finish the room... WAF makes this difficult since I have no room for a dedicated listening space so we must agree. How 'bout them drapes?
Will you be buying a commercial product or DIY? By ear or SPL measure? Simple or will you even install clouds? WAF an issue or do you have a dedicated space?
Mine are all DIY. I made 7 panels 2feet by 4 feet in my 14 x 24 room. As for placement, well that was easier because with Martin Logan speakers, they generate sound from behind so I put one in each corner for bass absorption and one flat against each wall from the top down to absorb echo from the hard walls.
I then put 2 more on the opposite wall of the room to clean up reflection and one sitting rectangular on the side wall opposite of the door. This got rid of an annoying echo in my room.
I used an acoustic insulation and basic material I bought at Wal-Mart. They look very nice if done properly.
For now this is what I use and the sound is much better because I have a very "hard" room. I also put a throw rug 8 x 10 on the floor since it is hardwood and put curtains on my pocket door that has glass as that is not a good material with these speakers.
The bass is now very tight instead of boomy and the highs don't reflect all over the room anymore. I did not do anything professional if that is what you mean but you have to experiment with your own particular room. If you decorate properly, the wife will like the look......just make sure you have her involved in the decision making of the colors and stuff like that.
A local 'emporium' has OC703 in 20 sheet 2'x4'x1" or 2" in 12 packs.
If I can get the WAF high enough, I'll make a similar move.
I, too, have di/bipoles (?) in the form of Maggies. I did a speaker position adjust yesterday and it really helped. Next step is to fix the room. This is gonna hurt.
No doubt that our speakers need a little extra tender loving care but in my opinion, they are worth it!
I am not sure if I mentioned it but my room is a dedicated sound room only! When we bought the house to renovate, this was a must in our project. I am lucky to have a very understanding better (!!!) second half that allows me to have this hobby! The only thing she asked for in return was a big plasma t.v as she loves to watch different shows...........Great comprimise in my opinion.
By the way, I will be receiving my new BP-20 Bryston pre-amp next week! I have sold the YBA. I just like the sound better.
James Tanner of Bryston helped me to find this and I can't thank him enough. They are a very unique company to deal with just like Martin Logan so I consider myself lucky to have this kind of service.
Frank:: I too, have a shared space. LivingRoom, TVRoom, lounge, etc. Here is my approach. Gotta have drapes, right? My plan is as follows. Find a decorator. Interview and make sure any fabric choices by wife have Coordinated accoustic fabrics by same manuf. There are a number of fabric manufs out there who make it all. I am trying to avoid 'boring' single color open weaves. It's out there. Next step will be a trip to LA and the fashion district to purchase fabric. I will diy the panels and have them professionally covered. Fabric/fashion district in LA is OVER 100 blocks. I'll have to drive that trip since I'll be bringing home a ton of stuff. take the van. My house is a modest 100m2.
