Whole house Audio Receiver

 

New member
Username: Lionsfan25

Indianapolis, IN

Post Number: 1
Registered: Oct-08
All,

I am hoping you can help me with this as I really don't know what I am doing.

First, I have my house wired for whole house audio. There are 2 sets of speakers in 6 different rooms and 2 links to home theater areas.

I need a receiver that will be able to handle this. I don't know what I am doing when it comes to searching for a stereo receiver. This does not need to do any type of video. Only for listening to music or audio.

I don't know what it means when somebody says a receiver is X channels. I don't know how many watts I need, etc. I am in serious need of help.

When I had my house built (3 months ago it was finished) the audio guy suggested a Yamaha stereo RX397. This is a 100 watt system with 2.1 channels. (50 watts per channel)

Is this going to be enough to power my whole house?

Based on what I have seen in the specs below it looks as though there are only 2 outputs. does that mean it would only power 2 sets of speakers?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Keith

Here are some specs I found on it.

Quick Glance
Advanced Features: Tone Control
Sound Supported: Stereo (No Surround)
Watts Per Channel: 50 W/channel
Input: Audio - Line In (RCA)
Supported Channels: 2.1 Channels
Devices Supported: 5
THD: 0.04 %
Sound Processing
Audio DAC: 24 Bit
Supported Audio Channels: 2.1 Channels
Sound Supported: Stereo (No Surround)
Amplification
Peak Total Power Output: 50 W/channel
THD at Rated RMS Power (Unbridged): 0.04 %
Watts Per Channel (Main): 50 W/channel
Connectivity
Number of RCA Stereo Outputs: 2
Output: Audio - Line Out (1/8" Mini),
Coaxial (RF),
Variable/Fixed Audio
Number of RCA Stereo Inputs: 5
Input: Audio - Line In (RCA)
Other Features
Remote Control: Basic Remote
AM/FM Tuner Presets: 40
General Features: Tone Control
Dimensions
Weight: 16.3 lbs
Depth: 12.13 in
Width: 17.13 in
Height: 5.94 in
Warranty
Warranty Information: 2 Year Limited Warranty
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10966
Registered: Dec-04
Keith, I would contact the builder and request the speaker specs from the sub-contractor that did the audio.

Where do all of these speaker leads expose themselves?
Is there a huge bundle of wires poking out from one central location, and if so, are they laballed?

Builders like to thow in 'whole house' features into the brochure, but seldom is the job nearly as complete as the buyer imagines.

There are so many builds with useless or false audio features, it makes my skin crawl.
 

New member
Username: Lionsfan25

Indianapolis, IN

Post Number: 2
Registered: Oct-08
I have a bunch of purple wires that go to each of the volume controls. they all go to one central locatoin in my main room. They are not labeled though. It is the same location as the main home theater coming out of the wall. There are also 2 coax wires coming out which I am assuming is the bridge to the home theatre.

I talked to the contractor that was installing the stuff so I am pretty sure it is wired exactly as I am thinking.

the speakers are Speakercraft WH6.0R.

I did a websearch for them and found this for the specs...

Thanks again,

Keith

Specifications
Efficiency: 87dB 1W/1m
Power Recommendations: 5 - 40 watts (undistorted)
Impedance: 8 OHMS
Frequency Response: 80Hz - 15kHz ±2dB
Cut-Out Diameter: 8-1/4"
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13059
Registered: May-04
.

My first suggestion would be to take your information to a local audio specialist and let them help you with this installation.

How much power you will require will depend on several factors. First the speakers you are using are not extremely high efficiency systems but rather average in electrical sensitivity (which measures how loudly they will play with "X" amount of watts running into them).

Additionally, the 80-15kHz frequency response means you will very likely want a subwoofer in any room that you intend to use for actual listening as opposed to mere background music. The room probably isn't wired for a subwoofer and a qualified installer would be required to add this connection. A low frequency cut off at roughly 80Hz leaves quite a bit of music untouched and unplayed by your present speakers.

If there are two pairs of speakers in each room, you can expect a slight increase in sensitivity and that will lower your power requirements slightly. You might get by with 50 watts per channel if the amplifier can actually deliver that power into your speakers. The problem here could be the impedance load you present to the amplifier.

Of course the room size and how far from the speakers you will sit will also determine just how much power you should buy. The type of music you will play will alter the power requirements. So you have numerous considerations before settling on how much power to buy.

In addition to the above how many speakers you will play at any one time will factor into how much power you require. Receivers are notoriously insufficient when it comes to actually delivering their watts into a real loudspeaker load and they are not capable of driving what looks like twelve speakers total - not counting any home theater systems you might add. If I read correctly and there are two pairs of speakers in each of six rooms, the pairs are probably wired in parallel from each volume control.

The type of in wall volume control would make a significant difference here when it comes to picking a receiver and the associated equipment to make this system operate.

If the volume controls are impedance matching types, then you can use a smaller amplifier for background type music. If the controls are less expensive L-pads, the load the amplifier sees will fall into the four Ohm or less range which is typically a strain for most modern receivers. You would need to consider either a separate multi-channel amplifier to drive all the speakers in the house or a very hefty receiver to drive several of the speakers at any one time.

You will require a speaker selector since you do not want to run the amplifier into a volume control that is set to minimum volume which represents maximum resistance to the amplifier. You'll also just need some amount of basic control over the speaker selection and level control beyond mere volume controls in each room. This sort of switching device can be either a simple, relatively inexpensive switch type with a load resistor in line which leaves your amplifier open to damage if the selector is being used by someone unfamiliar with the system or an accident happens while listening to some lively music. Or, you can buy a more expensive but safer, autoformer type selector which will provide some safety measures beyond just the switch type box. However, if you have impedance matching volume controls in each room, buying an autoformer type speaker selector is redundant. You would still require some form of generic speaker selector however.

You will have to decide whether you want remote control options in various rooms and whether you want some degree of home automation tied into the remote console. You will also need to decide how to tie the secondary rooms into your main audio/video room and whether you will have a discrete two channel system for the main whole house system or whether you will have zoned operation with the possibility of shared source components.


If all of the above makes your eyes cross, then you should be talking to a qualified installer/retailer rather than a forum. You have lots of decisions to make and you really need someone to sit down with and discuss the options. Listening to what you might purchase before you hand over some cash is also not a bad idea.

.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jrbay

Livonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA

Post Number: 441
Registered: Feb-08
A Lions fan wouldn't happen to live in the Detroit area would he? I am that qualified installer if you do!!!
 

New member
Username: Lionsfan25

Indianapolis, IN

Post Number: 3
Registered: Oct-08
unfortunately I live in the Indianapolis Area.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10967
Registered: Dec-04
The Colts are gonna lynch you, man.
 

New member
Username: Lionsfan25

Indianapolis, IN

Post Number: 4
Registered: Oct-08
Jan,

To be honest, I don't know any of the stuff you are talking about. The person that had recommended the Yamaha receiver to me is an authorized installer.

My question isn't really how do I install it, but more of is this receiver going to work for me. I am going to have the guy who did the rest of the stuff install it, but I want a second opinion to make sure that I am not going to have to buy another receiver down the road. Currently I only have 4 areas with speakers installed. All the other areas are wired, but without speakers. After just buying/building a home, I am trying to not drop a few thousand dollars at once on the sound system, but rather a few hundred at a time.

My biggest fear is that I buy this receiver and it is "good enough" for the speakers I have hooked up, but once it comes time to install the other 4 areas I am going to need to buy a new receiver because the one that was recommended was only good enough for the speakers I already had installed.

Do you see where I am coming from?

To answer a few more of your questions... No the rooms are not wired to have a subwoofer. The speakers are meant for background music, not necessarily jamming out music. Although if I wanted to turn it up in a room I want that to be an option.

The open question at this time I guess is, will I ever be using all of them at the same time? The answer is probably not, but there could be an instance where I am. I don't want to be limited if I want it to be on in all rooms.

Does that make sense?

In addition to what I just asked. I wouldn't mind finding out what it means when the receiver says it is 2 channel. Does it mean I can only run 2 sets of speakers coming out of it? I see there are 5 inputs going into it so I assume that on each channel I can use a different input, or possibly the same if I so desire.

Thanks again for all your help,

Keith
 

Silver Member
Username: Stryvn

Wisconsin

Post Number: 878
Registered: Dec-06
Well, the good news is, Keith, the curse of Bobby Layne has officially expired. I don't know how this is going to help your home stereo situation but the Lions can't get worse.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jrbay

Livonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA

Post Number: 442
Registered: Feb-08
I'll take the bet that the Lion's can INDEED get worse!!!!

On a happier note Keith:

A "set" of speakers would be better termed a PAIR of speakers. So if you have a pair of speakers in 6 rooms a 6 speaker impedance matching selector switch and your 50 watt per channel amp COULD be sufficient.

50 watts is like having a small 4 cylinder engine. It is all you NEED but is it all you WANT? Stepping up the power allows for more "punch" at low levels and definitely more volume options.

Are there really no volume controls wired into this system???
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13060
Registered: May-04
.

"Two channel" means there are two channels of amplification/speaker outputs - stereo, left and right. Five inputs gives you five sources (CD, tape, AUX, etc.) that will each run through those two channels of amplification.



I don't think anyone can give you a definitive answer regarding how much power you should buy. There are too many variables. The good news would be most people listen with only a few watts being used when the system is playing at a "comfortable" level. So, for a couple pairs of speakers playing at the same time, 50 watts is enough for background music and then a bit more. The bad news is power and volume are expotentially related and you constantly have to double your power to gain a small increase in volume. 10 watts plays 3db louder than five watts and 100 watts plays 3dB louder than 50 watts. 3dB is about where you would notice an increase/decrease in volume and not much more. Therefore buying power to gain volume gets expensive. This becomes very important when you begin discussing outdoor speakers as they tend to require more power to reach adequate levels (since they lack the boundary reinforcements of a room). Outdoor speakers around a pool can easily use fifty watts and leave little for the rest of your system. If you want to use this system for a party, then you will need more than 50 watts per channel but 100 watts per channel won't do the trick gaining you only 3dB more volume after the increase in power. 500 watts would be more appropriate for such a system.

More importantly, what you will eventually require is the ability to drive multiple sets of speakers at the same time. With few exceptions a receiver really isn't well suited to this task. I would suggest you invest for the long term by chosing a multi-channel amplifier with enough output channels to drive each room's speaker set(s) with two (left/right) channels of amplification for each room. Six rooms with two stereo sets of speakers in each room would require at least a 6 X 2 channel (12 total) amplifier. It would be wise to buy with a little extra in mind for down the road and possibly choose an 8 X 2 amplifier. In this case 50 watts per channel or there about would be sufficient for your needs since each set of stereo speakers will be working from an independent stereo amplifier. There will just be six stereo amplifiers in one multi-channel amplifier system instead of one two channel amplifier trying to drive too many speakers.

You will still need a receiver to select sources and control master volume. That receiver must have the ability to mate with the multi-channel amplifier driving the whole house system. Usually this means the receiver must have either "pre amp" outputs or multi-zone operation. The Yamaha receiver listed above does not have multi-zone operation and I'm not certain what "Output: Audio - Line Out (1/8" Mini)" means but I doubt it refers to a pre amp output.

Unless the person who suggested this receiver can show you how it would work for all of your present and future needs, I would suggest you do not buy this receiver for this installation.

I'm afraid the system I've roughly sketched out here is going to cost more money than you want to spend. The good news/bad news is you are typical of the many new home buyers who are relatively unschooled in home audio and you will face the same problems they have all faced. Unfortunately, I can only tell you there is no way to scrimp now and not have to come back and redo the system at a later date unless you deep six the plans to have 12 pairs of speakers playing. If you want to have a "whole" house system, then you need to spend the money now and install the correct system the first time. It will save you money in the long run.

If you explained your plans to the installer who then recommended the Yamaha and unless that installer said it would be a stop gap choice at best for a whole house system, I would suggest you find another installer.

A home with six rooms full of speakers - not to mention any home theater systems - didn't come cheap. Spend the necessary amount of money now and you won't have to come back later to spend even more the second time.

Bet you've heard that advice quite often lately.


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