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Bronze Member Username: Yes_cxPost Number: 12 Registered: Jul-08 | My Current system: CDP: Marrantz SA-8001 Amp: Electrocompaniet ECI-4 (sometimes Accuphase E-212) Speakers: Dynaudio Focus 140 I am generally happy with the system for now but the lack of balanced output on the Marrantz irritate me quite a bit. I heard that the performance between a balanced and single ended input for the ECI-4 is huge, and it does not even have a single ended RCA for CD input! so I have to use the DVD input instead. I really wish to explore the full potential of the ECI-4 or any other amps I may use later. So there are two possible ways for me: 1, add a qulity DAC (new price within $2000USD) with XLR output. 2, replace the CDP with a better model (new price within 2500USD) that has XLR output and reads SACD. The benifit for solution 1 would be: 1, save some money for now 2, I can use other digital source to the DAC which I plan to (build a music server), The ones I am looking at are Electrocompaniet ECD-1 (a good visual match at least ), Musical Fedility Tri-Vista 21. The reason for solution 2: 1, The Marrantz actually belongs to my roomate and I will need to buy one anyway later (in a year or so). 2, The whole player upgrade my be more effective and coherent than adding a DAC?? 3, I can still use other digital source if the new CDP has digital input? And I really really need advices choosing CDP if I decide to go solution 2, I know Electrocompaniet's EMC-1/up would be great, but I just cannot afford it at this moment. I am sorry for the long post, I am relatively new to hi-fi and have really limited expierence in CD players and your help is MUCH appreciated!! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3017 Registered: May-05 | Xing, I don't know much about any of your gear, so bear with me a little bit... Does the ECI-4 have an XLR input for DVD, but not for CD? If so, this is no big deal at all. The inputs are the same, the only difference is what they're labeled. It'll make no difference if you connect the CD player to the DVD input or any other input, so long as you're not connecting a turntable or anything else into a phono input. There are a lot of very good DACs out there. The first one I thought of was the Bryston BDA-1. It has a bunch of inputs and RCA and XLR outputs. It retails for $2k. It sounds amazing to my ears, and has Bryston's usual bullet proof construction and support. With the DAC, you could hook up multiple digital sources, including music servers, CD players, etc. If I were to spend about $2k on digital stuff right now, a DAC (this one actually) would be the way I'd go. People are getting very good results with things like Sonos and Squeezebox, and inexpensive transports connected to high quality DACs. If you're stuck on a CD player, the Bryston BCD-1 is an excellent CD player for $2700. I haven't heard better for the price. Keep in mind that most CD players don't have digital inputs. The only one I can think of is the Cambridge CD player, which isn't on the same level as your gear. On a side note, I wonder why more CD players don't have a digital input. It doesn't seem like it would be too hard to do, but then again I'm no engineer. Bryston BDA-1 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BYBDA1&variation=17SIL |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3211 Registered: Sep-04 | Sorry but I beg to differ with Stu on this. If the Electrocompaniet is designed internally for balanced operation then there will be a substantial loss in quality on the single ended inputs. The same happens on the Chord amps. Xing Chen, you have one problem - if you want SACD replay you cannot use any DAC you like. If I recall correctly, SACD signals cannot be streamed down S/PDIF. This is not allowed by the manufacturers since it would mean you could make perfect copies of a high resolution audio stream. S/PDIF will be allowed, but you will get reduced resolution (I think it's a maximum of 24/48). Strictly speaking you need a DAC designed to take specifically an encrypted input such as Denon's iLink. These connections are unique to the appropriate manufacturer (I think the only ones to do this are Pioneer and Denon - and maybe Marantz?) so a solution like this is proprietary. If this is not a big issue for you then all you need is a good DAC which preferably can cope with high resolution audio (24/96) such as the Lavry DA 10 (many people love this as a solution with a Mac) or the Benchmark DAC1 which is supposedly very good. Both of these have a balanced output. Alternatively, if you just wish to try out the proposed solution with the computer, there's the much cheaper Beresford TC7510 which is unbelievably cheap but supposedly a giant killer - no balanced output though. |
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Bronze Member Username: Yes_cxPost Number: 13 Registered: Jul-08 | Hi Stu, the ECI-4 only has XLR and does not have RCA for CD, so I can only use the DVD port which is RCA with the Marrantz which only has RCA. I do not care the lable but as Frank said, I think there is physical difference in it. Oh, and it does bother me that everytime when powered on, the default source selection switch to CD and I need to change it to DVD. Why less manufactures offering digital input in CD players? I guess it's marketing? Force you to buy dedicated DACs if you want other digital source? I will definetly give the Bryston a try but it is a bit pricy even used. (seems to hold its value well?) Frank, the ECI-4 is indeed designed for full balanced operation and I think that's why there is simply no RCA input for CDP. I heard from the seller that even the volueme is affected. I really need to crack the nob very high, some times pass 12' to get enough sound pressure which makes me worrying if I am stressing the amp. (it did not sound stressed though, not like the E-212 when cracked up). And thanks a lot for bringing the SACD+DAC issue to my attention, I was not aware and am definetly going to do some research on it! I do not nessarily need 24/196 that much but for sure do not want to be excluded with the option either should I spend some $2K on a DAC! Just wondering then what are the 24/196 spec in all those DAC for? only for upsampling redbook? Anyway I should get some detail soon. I do plan to use computer as audio source soon and I do not want to give up the DAC idea too quick. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3019 Registered: May-05 | I think you guys misunderstood what I was saying. There's a big difference between RCAs and XLRs. I was saying it doesn't matter what the input is labeled, not what type it is. If the integrated amp has 2 XLR inputs labeled CD and DVD, there's no difference between those two inputs. If you connect your CD player to the DVD input, and the DVD player to the CD input (again, bothe XLRs), their won't be any difference. The input isn't optimized for one component over another. They're labeled that as a convenience so you know what is connected to what. No different than if they were labeled Input 1 and Input 2. To the best of my knowledge, the BDA-1 does high res audio. It holds its value extremely well for a reason, as does all Bryston gear. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3218 Registered: Sep-04 | Xing Chen, Yes, the 24/192 claims on most DACs (apart from the ones I mentioned earlier) are mainly for upsampling Red Book. Of course, if the DAC is really good then you may be pleasantly surprised at what you get. And if you want to do some dreaming have a look at the Chord QBD76. Around $6000 and absolutely gorgeous, both to look at and in terms of sound (http://chordelectronics.co.uk/products_detail.asp?id=52). Stu, actually you're making a big assumption that there's no difference in quality between inputs on an amplifier. It's well known on certain amplifiers that certain inputs by virtue of location will sound very slightly better than others. Also, that's not what Xing Chen is saying - he's saying he has XLRs only for his CD input and RCAs only for his DVD input so he currently has to use the DVD input, and he's told that the XLR inputs are superior so would like a unit with XLR outputs if possible. |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 343 Registered: Oct-07 | Is lack of SACD a deal breaker? The CA 840c can be XLR out...I run it that way and has 2 channels of DAC input. CA doesn't do SACD, however. |
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Bronze Member Username: Yes_cxPost Number: 14 Registered: Jul-08 | Frank and Stu, I think we are talking the same thing now, lable makes no difference, but XLR or RCA make the difference. I will keep searching for a while... |
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Bronze Member Username: Yes_cxPost Number: 15 Registered: Jul-08 | Yeah, I would like to stay with a SACD player |