Bel Canto Evo 2

 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1382
Registered: Feb-07
Anyone ever heard this amp?

I've listened to the Bel Canto monoblocks in the past and were impressed with them.

How would they pair with MA RS6s?

Thoughts are appreciated....
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12955
Registered: May-04
.
Two different personalities IMO. What do you consider to the the strengths and weaknesses of both items? If you haven't heard either unit, what do you consider their house sound to be?

.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1383
Registered: Feb-07
I have no idea Jan. Having heard the monoblocks I found them to be very clear and detailed, crisp without being bright. Is this what you would consider the Bel Canto house to be?

The Evo utilize Tripath chips, I believe. Would this not give them a warm sound?
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 7700
Registered: Feb-05
The Bel Canto amps as you know are very smooth sounding...not sure I would call them warm but very smooth. Not sure it would be a bad match...can you audition them?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1388
Registered: Feb-07
I've seen a bunch on CAM and Agon lately. Was wondering how it would be on my 2 channel system Art.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 28
Registered: Apr-06
I just purchased a Evo 2. Anyone know how this compares to Simaudios W5?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1393
Registered: Feb-07
Cool! Let us know how it sounds.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10740
Registered: Dec-04
the Sim should outpower the BelCanto by a good margin, but thats just from old memories.
SQ is TBD.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 7712
Registered: Feb-05
David I heard the Bel Canto with Focal speakers and was very pleasantly surprised. Again hard to tell how it would work with your speakers...it makes sense that it would sound good, however that can only be taken with a grain...having an upgrade itch?
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 7713
Registered: Feb-05
Not familiar with that particular Sim amp, however the same place where I listen to Bel Canto is where I listen to Sim. Both brands are deliciously smooth...but not particularly exciting (or unexciting, very neutral)...given a choice, especially past the entry level I prefer Sim, but only by a hair. At the entry level just opposite and by the same margin. Interesting because the same store is where I've listened to the Sugden class A amps and the NAD M series. All of the other amps and sources (I don't think Sugden has a source so I'm speaking of Sim and Bel Canto) outperformed the NAD M series to my ears. I guess that would be part of my reason for my low opinion of the M series.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1395
Registered: Feb-07
The itch is bad this week Art.

It all started about 2 weeks when my wife and I were at my local dealer, and she saw (and heard) a Mac setup for the first time.

Her reaction was "those are nice - you should get one".

So I took that as the green light to spend about 4k. Now the hard part is deciding WHAT I really want, and how I want to use it.

Right now I have my Rotel pre feeding my Bryston Power Pacs on my 2 channel system. This sounds really good, unsurprisingly. I moved my Rotel 1070 to HT duty, driving my RS6's. For movies this is a great combo, for music, not so much.

So, if I buy a Mac and use it on my 2 channel system it'll be in the rec room, where only I use it (my wife will wonder why I spent 4k on something with cool meters that no one will ever see). So then I started thinking maybe instead of just getting a Mac, why not explore my options a little bit?

Shortlisted so far:

-Mac MC252 (or if I'm feeling really crazy, MC275)
-Bryston 4B SST
-Bel Canto monoblocks (just added these to my list)
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 7715
Registered: Feb-05
4K!!!

The sound you just heard was my adams apple falling and rising shortly after my dentures hit the desk (I don't really have dentures)...!

Well now. You know I like Mac but if I had 4K I'd go shopping...
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1396
Registered: Feb-07
Well that's the thing... I don't *exactly* have the 4k... just yet.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1397
Registered: Feb-07
lol, Art... that made me laugh outloud.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1398
Registered: Feb-07
Maybe I should add Classe to my shortlist Nuck?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12966
Registered: May-04
.

"Having heard the monoblocks I found them to be very clear and detailed, crisp without being bright. Is this what you would consider the Bel Canto house to be?

The Evo utilize Tripath chips, I believe. Would this not give them a warm sound?"



I wouldn't call the Tripath sound especially "warm". And with the low impedance point of the RS6's, I wouldn't think the Tripath chip will not sound warm when pushed.

But the newer class T enriched Bel Canto's don't sound exactly like the older class AB units. The older line had a fairly warm sound compared to your Rotel. I've not heard the newer pieces with the Tripath chip but I understand they share many of the same virtues as every other class T amplifier. The hefty Bel Canto power supply will make a large improvement in the class T amplifiers but I still would give the nod to a class AB amp if you want a richer presentation with more emotional involvement when you pair it with the RS6's.

I know switching between my Italian class T with a sealed lead acid battery/floating charge power supply and my Mac tubes, the tubes win out every time. It's not a knock on the class T considering the price difference but obviously noticeable and preferable when the Mac's get involved. It's actually quite unnerving because for years I thought some of the major improvements in amplifiers came by reducing noise with better quality parts and better circuit lay out. The class T amps are dead quite with a battery ps while the 45 year old tubes have a very, very slight but noticeable ground hum when you place your ear to the drivers in the speakers. But the tubes are still more transparent despite their disadvantge of having higher noise levels.

Without an audition of the Bel Canto with your speakers I wouldn't make that deal if I were you. If you are thinking of changing to a different speaker that would work with the class T amp sound, then possibly but I don't get that from your posts.

You could certainly look at the lower powered MC240's like mine instead of the MC275. The sound is similar/identical given the difference in output tubes, 6L6's vs 6550's. The 240's are available for a good deal less than any 275.


.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 1834
Registered: Jun-07
You have not truly heard those Mono Blocks until you hear them on a Bryston pre amp David. I think a 4b/Pre combo is in store.lol God I love spending your money.

Oh...and if my wife ever said that to me in a hi-fi store I would have to pinch myself.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 7720
Registered: Feb-05
I wouldn't have to pinch myself, someone would have to do it for me because I would long since have been dead...
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 1836
Registered: Jun-07
LOL!! Art.

The guy will 3 full audio systems is being told..by HIS WIFE!! to buy more. What a lucky son'f'a lol.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10743
Registered: Dec-04
What colour is the sky in your world David?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10744
Registered: Dec-04
If you are looking at a pre/amp, then sure look at used Classe.
For a power amp, others are better values.

Or... you can pick up my spare ca200 amp for a tryout.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 73
Registered: Jun-08
David,

You must be one special guy! Cann you let us in on your secret? Oh, Art - it's actually 4 kits that David has.
McIntosh, Classe (Nuck's offer sounds sweet), Bryston - all sound like very safe moves.
Have you seen this guy's video - he take price in his MC252:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpJq7hGmcA8
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1399
Registered: Feb-07
Nothing special about me George... here's the secret:

When I want to buy something for myself, I make sure I buy something nice for my wife too :-)

It gets expensive, but it works.

Get this, though... a couple of weeks ago we were sitting in the backyard having a beer, listening to the radio. An ad came on for my local dealer, advertising all Blu-Rays on sale. So out of the blue my wife says, "You should buy a Blu-ray player today". We were there in 15 minutes, lol.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 75
Registered: Jun-08
I don't want to hi-jack this thread but how is tha BR working out?
Just saw a Sony BDPS301 at Costco for $325. Still tossing BDP vs. PS3 around.

Keep us in on the auditions for you new amp.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1400
Registered: Feb-07
I will for sure George.

I'm actually very happy with the Samsung. I bought it on a whim (obviously) and brought it home and read some dubious reviews. But it so far has been flawless, it's played every BR disc I've thrown at it, and has no problem with SD discs either. So far so good.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 31
Registered: Apr-06
David: I ended up going to the Evo4 over the Evo2 so I can bridge it and run mono to each of my mains. 400W x 2. This is going to be insane. Got it for $1900 total.
 

Silver Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 334
Registered: Oct-07
Doesn't BelCanto use the ICE modules from B&O?
Have they changed there line?
The REF1000 monoblocs were/are monsters.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1404
Registered: Feb-07
That's a lot of power Blue. Let us know how it sounds!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10751
Registered: Dec-04
Dave, are you going to get some of this stuff from me for you to play with?

I think it's the ca200 amp, rotel rb985 amp and a 1072 cdp?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1407
Registered: Feb-07
For sure!

I just gotta get down there down Nuck and pick it up.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10756
Registered: Dec-04
If you want to get frisky, you can try the ca300 amp, the 200 is ok for me to stand by for a while.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12981
Registered: May-04
.
"Doesn't BelCanto use the ICE modules from B&O?"

The current line from Bel Canto does use the B&O chip. The Tripath chip was used in BC's earlier products as they moved away from a class AB topology.

.
 

Silver Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 337
Registered: Oct-07
Thanks, Jan.
I thought I was going nuts there, for a second!

.........leo..........
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 32
Registered: Apr-06
Just hooked up the eVo4. Some pretty severe hissing coming from my speakers and the amp itself is hissing. Is this just a warm-up issue?

.....I hope?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1442
Registered: Feb-07
Eeek. That sounds not so good. I can't help you, but hopefully someone here has an idea.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 33
Registered: Apr-06
I will say it has unbelievably good sound (minus the hiss). Soundstage is enormous. Detail,detail,detail.....and fast. But this hiss, why the hiss?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12997
Registered: May-04
.

What's the electrical sensitivity of your speakers? What pre amp are you using?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 34
Registered: Apr-06
They are Paradigm Signature S2 version 2's. I can't quite remember and their website was down at the time I typed this, but from memory it was 89/91 room and anaechoic or vice vs.

My pre is an Anthem AVM50.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10800
Registered: Dec-04
Unplug the amps from the power bar, BM

Go straight to the wall
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 35
Registered: Apr-06
I've done that. No improvement.
 

Silver Member
Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada

Post Number: 116
Registered: Jun-08
Is there a hiss with no source is hooked up? Is the hiss present at even low volume levels whether a source is connected or not? Can you try another pre with it. Do you have another set of speakers to test with it. Just try to see if you can isolate the problem. How abou a differnt outlet? How about a different power cord?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 36
Registered: Apr-06
Hiss is present with no source on.
Hiss/hum is present with preamp on.
Hiss/hum increases with a volume increase.
Same issues when changed to other speakers;
Tried two different outlets;
Tried different power cords;
Tried going through my PS Audio Quintet;
Tried going directly to the wall.

I also tried a different preamp with RCA's (it won't take XLR's) It is reasonably quiet. Certainly much better, but not dead silent either. Hiss is there but no hum.

I also tried hooking up another power amp to compare the amount of hiss with that of the eVo and the other amp is silent. You really have to put your ear to the speaker to hear much of anything.

So, I switched back to my Anthem and tried the RCA's again and hiss is significantly more than with my other power amp. As I sit here typing this, I am 10 feet from the nearest speaker and I can hear the hiss/hum (System is on with no source playing). Switching to the XLR's again and it is significantly louder.

I have noticed that it gets louder when I turn my Anthem on. It seems to go from a hiss to a hum (more like interference). The hum seems to start with my Anthem turning on, but hiss is there all the tine.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13003
Registered: May-04
.

You'll have to decide whether you are hearing a hiss - which is more like the white noise of interstation FM noise - or hum - which is a 60Hz grounding problem.

Hiss has all frequencies in equal amounts and due to your ear's perception of low frequencies will sound higher in overall pitch - you will be hearing the noise at the higher frequencies. Hum is strictly 60Hz noise. What is present from the system is important to tracking down the problem.


I am absolutely confused as to what is "another power amp" and what the Anthem has to do with this. Sorry, but I really can't keep it straight in my head what everyone on the forum owns.


"Hiss/hum increases with a volume increase."

This would normally indicate a problem that exists either in front of the pre amp or in the pre amp. The power amplifier is simply responding to the increased noise signal as you increase the volume. Since this seems to occur with the Anthem in place(?) that would make me think the power amplifiers are not at fault.

If this is a "hiss", it should not be dependent upon the AC outlet. If this is a "hum", it will be a ground issue which can be the AC feed or a problem with grounding between components. A "buzz" is 120Hz and most often is still ground related but not a ground loop.


"I have noticed that it gets louder when I turn my Anthem on. It seems to go from a hiss to a hum (more like interference). The hum seems to start with my Anthem turning on, but hiss is there all the tine."

I don't understand this. The problem gets worse when you power up the Anthem? So there is noise through the speakers when the power amp is not running? That's not possible.


Please clarify.


Try another source and, if you have a CD player with a volume control/variable output, run it directly into the power amp after trying it with your pre amp.


.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 37
Registered: Apr-06
First, let me try to clarify:

Here is the equipment I'm running:

Anthem AVM50 pre/pro;
Bel Canto eVo4 bridged for mono operation of my 2 main channels;
Simaudio Titan power amp for my center, surrounds and rear channels;
Velodyne DD15 sub;
Rotel RCD991 cd player with no variable output or volume control;
PS3;
Oppo DVD970HD dvd player;
Bell xpressvu HD satellite PVR receiver;
Panasonic Plasma TV.
Paradigm Signature S2 version 2 speakers;
XLR cables to the Titan and RCA's to the eVo4;
Everything is fed through a PS Audio Quintet.

For testing purposes, I have a spare power amp Adcom GFA5500 and preamp/tuner, Adcom GTP500.

"You'll have to decide whether you are hearing a hiss - which is more like the white noise of interstation FM noise - or hum - which is a 60Hz grounding problem."

When the Anthem is not powered on, all I hear is hiss through the speakers. I would consider this to be normal, although the amount of hiss coming through my mains is definitely louder than the amount of hiss coming through the speakers fed by my Titan. When I turn my Anthem on, a hum is all of a sudden present as well.

"Hiss has all frequencies in equal amounts and due to your ear's perception of low frequencies will sound higher in overall pitch - you will be hearing the noise at the higher frequencies. Hum is strictly 60Hz noise. What is present from the system is important to tracking down the problem."

As indicated, the hiss seems normal although louder than what I would expect, the hum is what concerns me more. The hum is only present when I turn my Anthem on. Originally, I thought this was occurring through my mains only, but it is happening through all channels.


"I am absolutely confused as to what is "another power amp" and what the Anthem has to do with this. Sorry, but I really can't keep it straight in my head what everyone on the forum owns."

Originally, I believed the problem to be caused by my eVo and I'm still not convinced it is not. When I tried another power amp in its place (the Adcom)connected via RCA's from the Anthem, no hum. No unusual sounds at all from my main channels. However, I'm still getting hum in the same surrounds as before, but only when the Anthem is on. (note the Anthem and Titan are connected using XLR's)


""Hiss/hum increases with a volume increase."

This would normally indicate a problem that exists either in front of the pre amp or in the pre amp. The power amplifier is simply responding to the increased noise signal as you increase the volume. Since this seems to occur with the Anthem in place(?) that would make me think the power amplifiers are not at fault."


How come I am only getting hum from my mains when the eVo is installed? If I connect it using XLR's the hum is worst.

"If this is a "hiss", it should not be dependent upon the AC outlet. If this is a "hum", it will be a ground issue which can be the AC feed or a problem with grounding between components. A "buzz" is 120Hz and most often is still ground related but not a ground loop."

I would describe it more as a hum and not a buzz.

""I have noticed that it gets louder when I turn my Anthem on. It seems to go from a hiss to a hum (more like interference). The hum seems to start with my Anthem turning on, but hiss is there all the tine."

I don't understand this. The problem gets worse when you power up the Anthem?"


Definitely! No issue when the Anthem is not powered on. (except hiss, which I think is normal).

"So there is noise through the speakers when the power amp is not running? That's not possible."

No, if the power amps are not on, there is no noise at all.


"Please clarify.


Try another source and, if you have a CD player with a volume control/variable output, run it directly into the power amp after trying it with your pre amp."


I don't have anything that would allow me to go directly to the power amp the way you suggest.

}}
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10828
Registered: Dec-04
I am trying to sort it out, blue.

It is worse with the balanced cables?
Thge balance should promote a zero noise floor, are you cables pinned out correctly?
Centre hot or centre shield?

Ummm...go to rat shack and grab some ferrite rings for the ic's?

It has worked before.

Kepp going, we can all sort it out.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 38
Registered: Apr-06
Nuck:

It is much worse with balance cables. I talked to a local tech here and he suspects it is the XLR's. He is going to make me some the correct way as he says.

I've tried unplugging individual components to see if unplugging any one device will eliminate it. No luck doing that yet. All components are plugged into the Quintet. I've also tried going directly to the wall and no change.

It has me totally baffled. I am still getting a buzzing if my Anthem is off and I unplug my TV, satellite receiver, CD and DVD player. I plug the TV in and the buzzing goes away except in my right speaker.

If I turn my Anthem on and try various inputs, some have the buzzing present and some just have the normal hiss. I'm afraid I'm going to need some professional help to try to figure this all out.

Testing the noise with a spl meter, it hovers right around 50 hz.

...and I now seem to have hijacked this post away from what the topic it is supposed to be. sorry guys!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10834
Registered: Dec-04
Not a problem, blue.
Trying to figgur this out with what we have to work with.
We all like to help and learn as we go, David included.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 39
Registered: Apr-06
I will say, except during quiet passages when I can hear the buzz/hum, this amp is incredible. I don't necessarily think the noises I'm hearing is due to the eVo, but it is peculiar that when I use the Adcom power amp instead, it is deathly quiet. It seems to be a combination of things possibly causing it and the eVo appears to be incompatable with my system for some reason. I tried it in my upstairs system and no humm or buzz at all.

Hopefully I can find the root cause and I'm not forced to sell it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 1902
Registered: Jun-07
Blue- I went through the same thing with my Bryston. With the old NAD 272 it was dead quiet. Hooked up my Bryston and had a buzzing/humming. The Bryston, was just making it more clear what had been in my system the whole time. Ground loop.

If you have some sort of Cable/Satellite line coming into the TV, Unplug it from the back of the TV, or Cable box. Even with the TV or Cable box unplugged from power, the connected coax cable still completes the ground loop. The Bryston tech told me this. I went to my TV, even with the TV off, unplugged the cable and bam, buzzing was gone.

The Bel Canto will be more sensitive to these sort of things. Perhaps because it is a higher end product than that of the Adcom? Who knows. I have my Bryston separate from the theater now a days but thats what it was before. If the Bel Canto has to stay in that system, there is a little coax 'ground loop killer' adapter you can get for the end of you coax line. I hope this helps. Cheers.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 40
Registered: Apr-06
Nick:

Thanks. I tried disconnecting all the TV/Sat coax cables coming into the room and it did not seem to improve anything. There are 4 coax cables coming to my system. One goes to the TV's ntsc tuner. The other 3 are for the dual tuner SAT pvr.

Each of these goes through the Quintet or similar device. Like I said, I unattached them from the wall as opposed to the TV/SAT but I would think this should be as good. I did not disconnect the phone line to my SAT receiver.

Based on some of the research I'm doing, I think I agree that it is a ground loop issue, but would I simply be able to get one of these adapters you refer to and connect to my RCA's between my preamp and eVo? Is this what you are talking about? http://www.minidisc-canada.com/shopexd.asp?id=51
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 41
Registered: Apr-06
I think I figured out where the interferences are coming from. I unplugged everything and starting from scratch, I discovered that each of the following devices introduce interference (hum or buzz) into my speakers:

Panasonic plasma tv;
HD Satellite receiver;
Sony PS3.

Now, how do I solve this? Well, I just ordered this device for each: http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html

Let's hope it works.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1452
Registered: Feb-07
Hope it works for you blue.

My plasma TV when I first got it would buzz like crazy - like I could hear it across the room (it never caused interference with my speakers, though). When I plugged it into a power conditioner, the buzz almost totally disappeared.

I've read good reviews about these too:

http://www.ciaudio.com/xdc2.html
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 42
Registered: Apr-06
David:

I wonder if that will take care of ground loop hum? It looks similar to PS Audios humbuster, http://www.psaudio.com/products/humbusterac.asp , which apparently is not for ground loop hums. However, I do also have transformer hum from the eVo, but I can live with it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1453
Registered: Feb-07
I think these are more designed for interference and transformer hum. And they're probably rather expensive.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 43
Registered: Apr-06
I agree and that is not what is causing the hum through my speakers. When I eliminated the sources of the hum, I tried the eVo and that is one incredible sounding amp.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13007
Registered: May-04
.

"Now, how do I solve this? Well, I just ordered this device for each: http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html"


It's a fancy ground lift. You need to find out whether a ground lift is what you need and on what devices you should apply them. Go down to the harware store and buy a handful of 99cent ground lifts before you use these expensive things.


"I ended up going to the Evo4 over the Evo2 so I can bridge it and run mono to each of my mains. 400W x 2. This is going to be insane."

"Bel Canto eVo4 bridged for mono operation of my 2 main channels"

I'm going to ask the dumb question. You don't have just one Bel Canto amp in mono and you aren't feeding it two signals from the pre amp, are you?


"When the Anthem is not powered on, all I hear is hiss through the speakers ... When I turn my Anthem on, a hum is all of a sudden present as well."

Then you start from scratch with just the CD player, pre amp and power amp(S) running your speakers. Nothing else plugged in anywhere, no AC to other components, these three pieces plugged directly into the wall outlet and no oher component running into the pre amp. What happens? Take the system down to it's most basic components and then gradually add each back in as you listen for noise. If noise occurs, add a ground lift to a component - either the pre amp, power amp or offending component. If the component only has a two pin AC plug, use a ground lift with the ears shaved of the polarized plug and reverse the AC plug in the outlet.


"The hum is only present when I turn my Anthem on. Originally, I thought this was occurring through my mains only, but it is happening through all channels."

"Originally, I believed the problem to be caused by my eVo and I'm still not convinced it is not."

Again a single amp to run two channels?


"I would describe it more as a hum and not a buzz."

"I am still getting a buzzing if my Anthem is off and I unplug my TV, satellite receiver, CD and DVD player. I plug the TV in and the buzzing goes away except in my right speaker."

Hum? Buzz? You have me confused. Take the system apart and put it back one peice at a time.


"If I turn my Anthem on and try various inputs, some have the buzzing present and some just have the normal hiss"

"except during quiet passages when I can hear the buzz/hum"

Let's forget the noise for now. Where is the volume control set when you hear this amount of noise?


"Testing the noise with a spl meter, it hovers right around 50 hz."

50Hz?


"Each of these goes through the Quintet or similar device."

Similar device? How many similar devices? This is how ground loops are created. Take the system down to the basics. No power conditioners/surge protectors, no nothing but a simple two channel system to start.

.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10839
Registered: Dec-04
blue, I am sober today, and I have to admit that I am as confused as JV on what you have going on.

If you start as suggested, the cure will become apparant.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 44
Registered: Apr-06
"It's a fancy ground lift. You need to find out whether a ground lift is what you need and on what devices you should apply them. Go down to the harware store and buy a handful of 99cent ground lifts before you use these expensive things."

What am I looking for at the hardware store? Do you have a link or description?


"I ended up going to the Evo4 over the Evo2 so I can bridge it and run mono to each of my mains. 400W x 2. This is going to be insane."

"Bel Canto eVo4 bridged for mono operation of my 2 main channels"

I'm going to ask the dumb question. You don't have just one Bel Canto amp in mono and you aren't feeding it two signals from the pre amp, are you?


The eVo4 is a 4 channel amp bridgeable with the press of two buttons to make it a dual mono amp. Basically 2 amplifiers sharing one huge transformer in one box.
Upload

Upload

"When the Anthem is not powered on, all I hear is hiss through the speakers ... When I turn my Anthem on, a hum is all of a sudden present as well."

Then you start from scratch with just the CD player, pre amp and power amp(S) running your speakers. Nothing else plugged in anywhere, no AC to other components, these three pieces plugged directly into the wall outlet and no oher component running into the pre amp. What happens? Take the system down to it's most basic components and then gradually add each back in as you listen for noise. If noise occurs, add a ground lift to a component - either the pre amp, power amp or offending component. If the component only has a two pin AC plug, use a ground lift with the ears shaved of the polarized plug and reverse the AC plug in the outlet.


I've already broken they system down and determined the hum to be occurring when I plug any of the following components in: plasma tv, HD satellite receiver and Sony PS3.


"The hum is only present when I turn my Anthem on. Originally, I thought this was occurring through my mains only, but it is happening through all channels."

"Originally, I believed the problem to be caused by my eVo and I'm still not convinced it is not."


Again a single amp to run two channels? Yes, explained above. Single chassis with two mono amps inside when bridged or 4 stereo amps when unbridged.


"I would describe it more as a hum and not a buzz."

"I am still getting a buzzing if my Anthem is off and I unplug my TV, satellite receiver, CD and DVD player. I plug the TV in and the buzzing goes away except in my right speaker."

Hum? Buzz? You have me confused. Take the system apart and put it back one peice at a time.
Done - see above.


"If I turn my Anthem on and try various inputs, some have the buzzing present and some just have the normal hiss"

"except during quiet passages when I can hear the buzz/hum"

Let's forget the noise for now. Where is the volume control set when you hear this amount of noise?
It is all the way down.


"Testing the noise with a spl meter, it hovers right around 50 hz."

50Hz?
I don't know if this means anything. I just thought I would throw that out there if it helps determine anything.


"Each of these goes through the Quintet or similar device."

Similar device? How many similar devices? This is how ground loops are created. Take the system down to the basics. No power conditioners/surge protectors, no nothing but a simple two channel system to start.
For my plasma, I have it plugged into a monster cable surge protector due to the distance from the Quintet.

The components causing the hum has been determined, so now it is a matter of fixing it. Hopefully, the Ebtech device works or if you can explain to me what the ground lift you refer to is.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13009
Registered: May-04
.

Just go to the electrics area of any harware store and ask for a ground lift. It is the plastic coupler that reduces a three pin grounded AC plug to a two pin non-grounded plug. It is still a polarized plug and you'll need to shave/cut/grind the ears off one side of the plug so you can reverse it in the AC outlet while trying to eliminate the noises.

You are trying to get everything to roughly the same ground potential. If one device has its chassis tied to the opposite polarity of the incoming line compared to another component, you will get ground hum to a varying degree of audible noise. Reversing the plug is a way to check for proper polarity within the system. If you have a digital VOM (Volt-Ohm meter), you can also test for lowest voltage reading at the chassis.

While you're at the hardware store, ask for an outlet tester to test for proper wiring inside the AC receptacles and for lifted grounds in the outlet. It is not uncommon for a three pin outlet to be reversed in its wiring or to only have two conductor cable running to it, this is most typical of an old house installation where some wiring and some outlets have been refurbished but the job has not been brought up to current codes and the job has been performed by les than qualified workers. Any remodeling work can also lead to reversed wiring of the outlets.

The ground lifts are about $1 and the outlet tester should run about $10-15. Once you determine the outlets are all properly wired you can proceed to chase down your noises. The devices you have orderd provide - according to their literature - a lifted ground while still providing an adequate ground point for the equipment. That's their only advantage over the $1 plastic device, and I'm not at all sure how they accomplish that task. I suspect there's a good sized capacitor in the casing. That wouldn't be good for sound quality. But you need a ground for any three pin device so the $1 devices are for testing purposes only. Your surge protectors are all but worthless if they do not have a clean path to ground.

If the ground lifts work, you might want to ask a qualified electrician about running a dedicated earth ground and a separate, dedicated circuit/outlets for your components. This would be one of the best things you could do for sound quality.


.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 45
Registered: Apr-06
Follow-up:

I got ground lifts as JV recommended and tried unplugging these 3 devices from the power to try the ground lifts. When I got them installed and powered back up......hum. So I tried disconnecting the HDMI cables that interconnect each of the devices to my Anthem and hum stopped.

Then, I removed the ground lifts, and plugged the devices back in and there was the hum again, even though the HDMI's were still unplugged.

So, I tried installing the ground lifts again, plugged everything in and reconnected the HDMI's - hum.

I tried disconnecting the HDMI's - hum.

I reconnected the HDMI's leaving power connected - hum

I disconnected power - hum.

I disconnected HDMI's while power was disconnected - no hum.

I tried the eVo in my upstairs system and no hum.

I tried three different power amps in my system that is causing the hum with the eVo. Simaudio - no hum; Rotel - no hum and Adcom - no hum.

At this point, I thought to myself, could it be something to do with the eVo causing interference with these other components as opposed to these other components causing the hum?

So, I tried the ground lift on the eVo and hum is greatly reduced.

Now, I assume it is not a good idea to leave a ground lift installed?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10847
Registered: Dec-04
It ain't an issue audio-wise blue.
However, lets go the other way for a moment.
Now what is the ground issue inside the amp? (great photos, btw)
The power supply should be bonded on the neutral for just these reasons, I doubt that Euro-spec stuff does this, as I have seen very often.
If you bond the reference of the power supply to the ground lug, this will likely fix it all.
I almost bet...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13011
Registered: May-04
.

No, you shouldn't run your equipment without a proper ground. You risk having little to no protection from a surge when the ground is lifted. How much of a chance you wish to take in this area is your decision.


In almost all cases all of your chassis components, jacks and screws, are tied to the component's electrical grounding point - which is the chassis. However, some parts are insulated from the chassis proper. The XLR's and RCA's are probably not directly tied to chassis ground at the chassis connection point but will likely have a thin insulating plastic washer between the jack and the chassis. Some components isolate the jacks and some do not.

With the ground lift in place on the amplifier, try connecting a wire to an uninsulated chassis screw. "Uninsulated chassis screw" means most screws are insulated from the chassis by paint due to the modern construction methods employed in building the component. You'll have to find a screw that has continuity with the chassis or scrape a bit of paint from underneath the screw to allow a good connection. A VOM can help you find an uninsulated screw connection or a good chassis ground point. Looking at the picture of the amp you might try scraping a bit of paint from underneath one of the feet.

With the volume control down to a low level touch this chassis connection wire to the center screw on your AC wall outlet with the pre amp/power amplifier plugged into that outlet. If you didn't buy the outlet tester, this can give you an indication whether the outlet is properly grounded. You need as many of the components as possible - CD/pre/power - plugged into the wall outlet for this test. (Some surge protectors will not give a reading for true ground when taken at the AC receptacle of the strip since they are trying to shunt surges to ground, there may be a component that makes the meter misread. Surge protectors can be a source of noise in some cases.)

Try the same wire connection from your pre amp. Try a wire from the pre amp to the power amp. Try each one individually and then one on top of the other in connection order. Think logically while you are hunting.



One problem here is it is very difficult to track down a ground problem over the forum. It requires a dedication to stripping the system down multiple times and logically working through all possibilites in a step by step fashion. When the information is posted here, there are still too many questions about what else was in place as you did your tests.


I'm still not sure what happens when you have the Evo connected with XLR's vs RCA's. If the noise is reduced, there is the possibilty you have not paid attention to the connection schematic on the XLR's. Do you realize not all XLR's are wired to have the hot/neutral/ground on the same pins? The owner's manual for both components should tell you the proper schematic for each component.

Did you buy the outlet tester?

Put "eliminating AC ground loops" in a search engine and read.

.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13012
Registered: May-04
.

"If you bond the reference of the power supply to the ground lug, this will likely fix it all.
I almost bet..."



Sorry, I have to disagree here. Do not stick your hands inside an amplifier unless you are absolutely positive your life insurance is paid up. There are lethal voltages in there and they are quite easy to find when you don't know where they hide. They do, however, like to stick around the power supply even when the amp is unplugged. This is not something you should attempt. Not to mention it will void your amplifier's warranty should you survive. Only a qualified technician should be poking around an open amplifier chassis and then only at the direction of the manufacturer. There are other ways to solve this problem.


.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 46
Registered: Apr-06
Nuck:

Are you saying there is no harm in leaving the ground lift in place?

This is a US manufactured amp, but you will have to further explain what you mean by bonding the reference of the power supply to the ground lug.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10850
Registered: Dec-04
The reference is not bonded.
Have a tech attach the wire if necessary, but start there.

Sorry if I recommend the fix and not the procedure, play safe kids.

I find that thinning the blood with scotch greatly increases your potential to earth as well,along with the liklihood of contacting high potential sources, so another cause for a ground strap.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 47
Registered: Apr-06
I not going to start tinkering with the internals. Also, why would this appear to be an issue when the amp is installed in one system, but it is totally quiet in another?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10851
Registered: Dec-04
Maybe because your mains are split to 110v volts from the panel, which comes in at 230 on 2 legs?
Hey...wait a minute...

JV?

Panel issue?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 48
Registered: Apr-06
Then why no humming issues when I use it upstairs in my other system? Same panel, just different circuit.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 49
Registered: Apr-06
I've been doing a bit of research on the transformer hum that I'm also getting. When I was installing the amp and tilted it at an angle, I noticed a "clunk" which I immediately assumed to be the transformer due to the heft of the clunk. This is why I have the pictures with the cover off. When I checked the transformer, it is anchored to the chassis with a bolt. The transformer moves a bit side to side on this bolt which I didn't think was an issue originally, but as I read more about the topic, there are all kinds of references about cheaply made transformers or loose windings causing hum, neither of which I think is the issue with a Bel Canto, but could it be due to the fact that it is not tightly anchored down?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13013
Registered: May-04
.

"Panel issue?"

I doubt it unless the house was improperly wired. Everything should still be tied to a common grounding point if it was done correctly.


" ... could it be due to the fact that it is not tightly anchored down?"

You would have to ask Bel Canto - which probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Most transformers are secured to the chassis but some have a semi-soft washer between the transformer and the chassis which will allow some movement. But it might not be a bad idea to call Bel Canto and ask a few questions about your situation. It is not entirely out of the realm of possibility that you have a defective amplifier.


.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 50
Registered: Apr-06
I tried pulling it out again to try it away from the system it goes in and there is very little to no hum from the transformer. I tried moving it closer and closer to the system and as it gets closer, the hum gets louder, so it appears as though it is interference from other components or the electrical system. I think I'll have to order a "Humbuster" or similar device.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 51
Registered: Apr-06
Another discovery guys: The transformer hum only occurs in the eVo when I turn my plasma TV on.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 7868
Registered: Feb-05
Sounds like a cable ground loop hum. I bought a couple of products to put into the cable line from a dealer and it worked like a charm ($12 each, wish they still had them). May want to try Radio Shack...
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bluemark81

NB Canada

Post Number: 52
Registered: Apr-06
I'm in Canada and we used to have Radio shacks which had absolutely everything, but they have been bought out by Circuit City and call themselves the Source. Well they have nothing! They didn't even know what I was talking about. I'm heading to the US this weekend so I will try to stop in RS while there.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10855
Registered: Dec-04
Thank goodness for RatShack!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 1921
Registered: Jun-07
lol good ol RatShack indeed. Radio Shack in the US is next. Its just a matter of time before the source gobbles them up as well.
« Previous Thread Next Thread »



Main Forums

Today's Posts

Forum Help

Follow Us