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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 103 Registered: Feb-07 | I just bought a small cafe/coffeehouse here in my town. It's a pretty groovy place already, very nice atmosphere and good clientele, but of course one of the first things I noticed is the lack of a good sound system. No, a good sound system probably won't increase revenues very much, and yes, I'm probably just doing this because it's an excuse to shop for some new hi-fi gear, which I can justify to the wife and the IRS as a legitimate business expense. But that's besides the point. The point is, I'm going to build a new system regardless, so what should I get? There are some requirements of such a system that would be different from those for my home system: - Volume: most of the time, it will be played at polite volume, so it needs to have good detail and imaging at such low levels. - Speaker size: naturally, the speakers need to be small, as they will probably be mounted in a corner. - Speaker configuration: It's a 2-room cafe, so ideally it would be at least a 4.0 stereo system, or perhaps even more speakers, if you consider the back room/kitchen as well, where it'd be nice to have some tunes as well. A 6.0...? I'm open to subs, but it'd be best to avoid them, for the lack of floor space. - Idiot proofness: my employees are all college-age girls, so this can't be something that they either can't figure out or can mess up somehow. So I'm thinking simplicity and ease of use, for their sake. - Music source: We'll probably be playing a lot of stuff of the computer...internet radio and digital playlists. I'll get a really good external soundcard, but nevertheless the source will be inferior to vinyl and cd's. So I'm thinking the system needs to be a bit forgiving, and not too revealing. - Reliability: this needs to be a workhorse system, on for 12 hours at a time, so the amp needs to run cool and be reliable. - Amp: although I'm an integrated man at home, I'm thinking for the cafe, a multi-channel receiver would be best. Maybe a surround receiver that has a setting for 6.0 or 7.0 stereo. I have some ideas myself, but as always, I'm looking for suggestions...got any? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1387 Registered: May-06 | There was another thread about this not to long ago which I will not link to as it got out of hand with troll activities. Have you thought about pro-gear? Since it is not a bar I do not think you are looking to turn the volume up to ear splitting levels for long periods of time, but pro-gear has safer warranties for your intentions. |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 104 Registered: Feb-07 | Yeah I saw that thread about the guy who had Bose speakers, it wasn't very helpful. As for pro-gear, I think that would be overkill. This is a really small place. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12864 Registered: May-04 | . It's always a good idea to walk around to other shops/diners and listen to what they use. If you like the sound, ask what equipment they own. For low level use in a larger space, you should be looking at a well design, rugged two channel amplifier with speaker selection and volume control in one outboard box separate from the receiver. You do not want a HT receiver for this spot. . |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1683 Registered: Jun-07 | Especially if you want this system to be a work horse. And AVR will run very hot, and eventually fail IMO. What Michael meant by Pro gear, is not that it has to be high end, professional gear. Something in-expensive. Like a Ellan two channel amp with A/B speaker selection and volume control. Easy to use, rugged, and should provide half decent sound. Just a thought. |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 105 Registered: Feb-07 | I hear ya. I'll start looking at some Elan models. I've also been eyeing the Marantz ZS5300 Multi-Zone Control Amp. Not many reviews out on that one, but the features appear to be right for what I need. As for speakers, I've been thinking about some pairs of Monitor Audio BR1's, or something along those lines as far as size and price. |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 106 Registered: Feb-07 | ...or maybe the Cambridge Audio S30 speakers... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1685 Registered: Jun-07 | Hey Joe, I can't comment on the CA S30 speakers as I have never heard them. The Monitor Audio BR1's on the other hand I can honestly say are very nice little speakers. Especially for the price. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1687 Registered: Jun-07 | Another recommendation to you Joe would be to buy from a local dealer if possible. Might be easier, for warranty replacement/repairs and such. So if something were to happen to your amp, you won't be out of commission for too long. Just a thought. |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 107 Registered: Feb-07 | Yes I demoed them once, they sounded pretty good. The guys at Audio Advisor are recommending the PSB Alpha B1, but I like the smaller size of the BR1, considering where I'll be mounting them. I'm hesitant about those CA's also. They just got back into the speaker market...maybe give them a few more years to get their footing... |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 108 Registered: Feb-07 | I'm also considering the Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 speakers. They are significantly cheaper than the BR1's ($190/pair vs $325/pair), and I'm looking to buy at least 2 pair. I've never heard the Wharfedales, I wonder how they stack up against the BR1's. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1690 Registered: Jun-07 | Not sure about the Wharfedale's either Joe, it seems nobody in Canada that I know of sells them. My dealer has some real nice sounding bookshelf speakers on a budget. He has all the Monitor Audio speakers, as well as the PSB AlphaB1's which are nice. Also check out the new Paradigm Atoms V6's if you can. Great little speaker. Even cheaper than the MA's. |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 109 Registered: Feb-07 | I've narrowed it down to the PSB Alpha B1 and the MA BR1, but I can't find anyone near me that has PSB to demo. And since I've heard the MA's and really like them, and also have the silvers in my house and love them, AND there's a local dealer that carries them...well, the BR1's it is. As for the amp, I'm now debating between the Onkyo A-955 and the Marantz PM-7001. The local dealer carries the Marantz, and I know it pairs well with the MA speakers, but from experience I know that the Onkyo is more of a workhorse amp, and runs cooler and more dependable. And there's a couple on Audiogon for under $400. I think I'll snag one of those...and when I get it, I'm going to do a head-to-head test against my CA 640A at home (with MA Silver RS6 speakers). Who knows, the Onkyo may stay here and the CA might end up in the shop...I'll post the results. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1215 Registered: Feb-07 | Good call on the speakers Joe. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1692 Registered: Jun-07 | lol awesome Joe. Good choices man. I read very good things about the Onkyo 955 but have never heard it. Have fun and let us know the outcome. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1186 Registered: Nov-06 | http://www.alesis.com/monitors |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 110 Registered: Feb-07 | I'm having last minute doubts...should I go with the BR2's? Or will I be happy with the BR1's as a full range speaker? It's really the low end of the frequency range that I'm worried about. For $200 and a hew inches more, should I just cast away these doubts with a swift last-minute upgrade...? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1696 Registered: Jun-07 | Hey Joe. Have you done an A/B demo between the two? If so, what were your thoughts? |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 111 Registered: Feb-07 | I haven't, and probably won't be able to. I just know that I liked the BR line and heard them all at some point. It's really hard to find any reviews on the BR1, there's not that many out there... |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 112 Registered: Feb-07 | I think I'll just trust the brand, which I'm confident in, and on the approval of several of you on the choice, and go with my first instinct. Just had some last-minute thoughts there... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1697 Registered: Jun-07 | Hey Joe. Based on Specifications pulled off the MA web site. The BR2's don't go any lower in frequency than that of the BR1's. I personally still feel the BR 1's are a better bang for your buck. Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1698 Registered: Jun-07 | correction... it does go a bit lower. I Still like the BR1's |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 113 Registered: Feb-07 | Thanks for the help and the extra little confidence I needed to order, Nick. And the bonus is, my dealer gave me a great price, only $290/pair. Icing on the cake... The Onkyo is also on its way, and I just ordered Kimble Kable Kwik 16 in-wall speaker cables for the setup. I'll let you all know how it all sounds... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1699 Registered: Jun-07 | Thats awesome Joe. Sweet setup. Got to be the best Coffee house/Restaurant setup I have ever seen.lol. I'd eat in your cafe any day. |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 114 Registered: Feb-07 | Yeah it's definitely overkill, and most won't appreciate it like I will. But this is the first time I've been able to buy hi-fi gear and write it off as a business expense, so I might as well have fun, right? And of course, I'll be cranking up the volume after all the customers are gone. I'll report back with results and maybe some pics... |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 116 Registered: Feb-07 | Test #1, Onkyo vs Cambridge Audio in the home system: Onkyo disqualified; CA wins by default! I received the Onkyo A-9555 today...this thing is huge! In all my examinations of the specs, I never really paid attention to the dimensions. It's actually too big for my current home audio rack, the Salamander Archetype. It's about 17" deep, so I would have to remove the backing of the rack to accommodate. Also, it's 6" high, and it would be difficult to fit height-wise with all my other components. So I'm not even going to test the sound at home, for fear that it would sound better and then it would bother me that it's not at home. To the cafe it goes... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1702 Registered: Jun-07 | You could always test it out on a chair or something. lol huh huh...come on Joe you know you want to. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1225 Registered: Feb-07 | I'm not surprised the CA won out. Which one was it? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10608 Registered: Dec-04 | The onkyo is yet to be tried, David. Might be interesting yet... |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 117 Registered: Feb-07 | OK OK, I'll give it a test against my CA 640A v2, just for fun, and report back... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7439 Registered: Feb-05 | This should be interesting and actually could be close. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. Anticipating the results. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1704 Registered: Jun-07 | The Onkyo 955 from what I hear is a little 'surprise' or an amp. A lot better than people give it credit for due to the fact it has Onkyo on it. It should be interesting. And should be a no-brainer to which Joe prefers I would think. Mainly because both brands sound completely different. The Onkyo is 'dark' sounding. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1229 Registered: Feb-07 | Whatdaya say Joe? |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 118 Registered: Feb-07 | I still haven't done the test yet, been too busy at the shop. I'm going to try to do it later today. I still have to make the shelves for the shop setup, and the cables haven't arrived yet. The Onkyo is just sitting here at home. I'm going to set it next to my current system and switch the cables, and try some of my favorite vinyl... |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1400 Registered: May-06 | Joe - take the time to play both vinyl and CDs. The phono stage will be different on both the CA and Onkyo and should provide a different result than the CD playback will be between the two units. Plus I suspect you will not be spinning a lot of vinyl at the cafe, though it would be pretty cool if you did. |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 119 Registered: Feb-07 | OK, I finally got around to doing the side-by-side showdown. Nick, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. The Onkyo is a very high quality amp, plenty of clean power and good sound. It was indeed better than other Onkyo's I've heard. But to my listening ears, there is no question, the CA wins hands down. And not just with one source or type of music, but across the entire spectrum it is just a better sounding amp. Since each switch forced me to change lots of cables, I didn't have the luxury of doing an A-B switch in the same song like in a shop; so it'd be hard for me to get real specific about tonal differences. But I will say that I came away from the experience believing that the CA has a much deeper and broader soundstage, and much warmer and enveloping sound. There were moments, at higher volumes, that I got some ear fatigue with the Onkyo...but never with the CA. I just wanted to keep on listening. I'm certain there are other people (and other systems) to which the Onkyo would be a better fit. Perhaps with some more laid-back speakers, for instance. But for me and my home system, I'll sleep well tonight knowing the Onkyo is going to the cafe and my (newly reaffirmed) beloved CA will stay right here. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7498 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks for taking the time to compare and sharing that with us. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1278 Registered: Feb-07 | Glad to hear you liked the CA Joe. I'm a CA fan myself. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1737 Registered: Jun-07 | Awesome Joe. Doesn't surprise me one bit. Glad the CA is rocking and also glad to hear that the Onkyo will still sound great in the Cafe. |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 120 Registered: Feb-07 | Yup, once I get that all setup I'll let you know how it sounds. I'm just waiting on the speakers to arrive. |
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Silver Member Username: JmsoaveSouth Lake Tahoe, CA USA Post Number: 121 Registered: Feb-07 | OK final update, the system is up and operational, and sounds fantastic. I will never doubt Monitor Audio again. I was worried about the BR1's being enough speaker for the space, well if anything, they are too much...these little babies rock! They go big and deep, and the sound is warm and natural. The best thing about them (for the needs of the cafe) is that they sound great when played very low, as well as high volumes. They are not too picky about placement, as I have them in less-than-ideal placements in the very top corners of the rooms, mounted to the wall. I connected them with Kimber Kable Kwik 16 cables, and I enjoyed working with them...it is obvious that they are very high quality cables. Interesting setup, they are 4-conductor but not meant for bi-wiring, they are meant to be twisted together at the ends and used as 2-conductor. The Onkyo has no problems in the power department, running both sets of speakers. It runs cool and consistent, and seems to have power to spare. It appears to be the solid workhorse I was looking for. Overall I'm a happy camper... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1778 Registered: Jun-07 | Awesome Joe, great success story man. Congrats on the new Cafe and the nice audio system as well. Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1331 Registered: Feb-07 | Congrats Joe. I think I can safely speak for Nick when I say MA rocks. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1780 Registered: Jun-07 | Yes, yes you can Dave. I love my MA's.lol |