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New member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-08 | I recently went shopping for some new fronts. I listened to Definitives Mythos ST's and B&W's 683's. The Definitives were a little too pricey for me right now. Plus, I really liked the sound quality in the 683. Even without a sub. the bass was really tight. I currently have and Adcom GTP-600 Pre-Amp and GFA-6000 Amp. I am either getting rid of or tying into a separate system in another room. I plan on keepinig my GCD-600 CD Changer for a while. I have a Yahmaha RX-V663 A/V (recently purchased). Will this push the 683's adequately? I am slowly trying to build a home theatre unit and need a little advise on quality equipment at a reasonable price ($1000-$2000.00). Looking for rears and a sub. as well. |
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New member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 2 Registered: Jun-08 | Can someone give me some help here? I'm a newbe to this site. Really need advise before making a front speaker purchase (see my previous post). Thanx |
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New member Username: DeltaforcePost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-08 | some people are always saying: bose suck!! but the bowers and wilkins 683 and the 684, are good?? my god the bowers and wilkins 683, 684 and the bowers and wilkins for ipod suck. but the bowers and wilkins 685 are very good, DON´T BUY THE BOWERS AND WILKINS 683, AND THE 684 AND THE IPOD DOCK!!! i listen the bowers 684 and the 683, and for me the sound quality is very low. bad speakers for the price , only the hight models of Bowers and wilkins are good: the cm1, 685 etc.. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3023 Registered: Sep-04 | I answered in the receivers section but to give you a bit more... The 683s are a bit difficult to drive. I am surprised you say their bass sounded tight. To me their bass is an overdone, bloated mess with little leading edge, if any, and no tunefulness. 683s came dead last in a recent HiFi Choice(?) group test of five speakers including the Focal 716V, KEF iQ9, Revel Concerta F12 and one other I can't remember. Admittedly, I don't give too much credence to reviews but dead last by some margin says something. I am also concerned that you're hoping for musical results after your Adcom pre/power. Please note the Yamaha is unlikely to offer as musical a solution. |
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New member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 4 Registered: Jun-08 | Frank, Thanks for responding. The main reason I got the Yahmaha is for the price it seemed to offer a lot (Dolby True HD, DTS-HD, etc.). My Adcom pre-amp was sort of antequated in that it is pro-logic. No Dolby Digital. I also lucked into a Bryston THX amp. How do I incorporate that into my home theatre setup? As for the speakers, I really thought the B&W's were a bargain. However, I am sort of a novice when it comes to specs. on this type of equipment. The B&W's you mentioned as being better I assume have an astronomical price tag on them? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3025 Registered: Sep-04 | OK Sherman I just responded differently in the other thread but I hope this'll make sense. The Bryston amp is a heavy hitter of the audio world. You can incorporate it by taking the Yamaha's front pre-outs and connecting them to the Bryston which then powers the front speakers. Incidentally, if the Bryston pans out, another way of controlling the 683s (should you choose them after all), is to assign the extra rear ampifiers to drive the front speakers. provided you don't want to use a full 7.1 system and are happy with 5.1 (and most people are happy with this), then you can double the power and hopefully control into the 683s. You're right that the Yamaha does offer a lot for the money. The only competitor which costs less is the Onkyo TX-SR606. I haven't compared the two so couldn't tell you which is better, but at least Yamaha is taking the fight to Onkyo - nobody else has done so. I didn't mention better B&Ws. Personally, I'm not a big fan. Most B&Ws seem to overdo the bass in my opinion, including the CM1s mentioned above. That said, I prefer a leaner better defined bass end than many people like so bear this in mind when you read my notes. As for specs, well, it's a shame that you have to read so deeply into equipment specs at all. I'm convinced this is one reason why fidelity equipment is such a turn-off in this day and age. People just don't have the time to spend hours poring over specs and reviews. They just want a solution and be done with it. The chances are that if you did go for the B&W solution, you'd probably be reasonably happy with it, certainly for surround, possibly not for music (still the achilles heel of most AV setups). I'm just trying to guide you to a system which has a better possibility for success given the specs and my experience with the B&Ws and the Focals 9as it happens). There are bound to be other brands about in your area too of course, such as Paradigm (of which I know nothing). If you really liked the B&Ws a lot then at the very least either use the Bryston or biamp them with the extra channels on your Yamaha. Oh - and let us know how you get on... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2850 Registered: May-05 | I heard the 683 at a shop a month or two ago. I was very unimpressed. Just my opinions, but... They sound boomy and boxy. Bass is flabby. They aren't cohesive at all between lows, mids, and highs. Highs are a little rough around the edges, and thrown forward at you. They pinned my ears back. Keep in mind that I prefer a forward and more aggressive presentation to a laid back one. Did you observe this too, Frank? It wasn't the room or electronics. They were driven by a Mac MA 6900 integrated and matching CD player. For about the same amount of money, the Revel Concerta tower (F12?) mopped the floor with it. If I was in the market for a floor stander (a very big one), the Revels would be at the top of my list. They need a fair bit of space, which I don't have. What part of NY are you in Sherman? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2851 Registered: May-05 | One more point Sherman - If you're looking for a big speaker with tight, strong and tuneful bass, the Revel has it in spades. |
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New member Username: DeltaforcePost Number: 5 Registered: Jun-08 | bowers and wilkins are better than minitor audio?? |
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New member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 7 Registered: Jun-08 | Frank, thank you so much for your advise. Especially, about bi-amping the Bryston. I will let you know how I make out. I'm home free with the wife to get whatever since she just snookered me into purchasing a new vehicle today. Stu, I'm in Buffalo. We used to have a few high-end stereo stores here. I think we're down to a couple now. I will have to see if the place I normally go to carries Revel. How are they in terms to price compared to B&W? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2857 Registered: May-05 | The Revels retail for $1500. If my memory serves me correct, the B&Ws retail for $1250 or so? I miss the Buffalo area. I went to Niagara University for grad school a few years ago. The main thing I miss is the wings. I thought the area I grew up in (Albany) had good wings until I went to Niagara. Nothing anywhere has come close. Everyone's all about Anchor's wings, which are very good, but I always liked Gagster's in Niagara Falls a lot better. I've been trying to get one of the sports teams I work with to play a game up there. The Basketball coach said (in a joking manner) "You mean to tell me that you want us to go all the way up there for chicken wings?" With a smile on my face, I said "Absolutely." He said "They must be pretty good wings." |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2858 Registered: May-05 | There was a pretty good store in Buffalo that I went in once or twice. The Stereo Shop or Speaker Shop? Right near the UB campus. |
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New member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 8 Registered: Jun-08 | Yes, the Speaker Shop. That's where I plan on making my purchase. It's also where I bought my Adcom equipment years ago. |
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New member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 9 Registered: Jun-08 | Funny you mention basketball Stu. My wife is the head woman's basketball coach at Erie Community College. She played Division I ball at the Univ. of Buffalo in the nineties. Sorry, we have digressed. I realize this message board is not for pumping up Western New York. But IMO the best wings are at either LaNova's or Duff's. I actually hate Anchor Bar wings. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2859 Registered: May-05 | Duff's is very good. I don't know if I like them or Anchor better. They're just different. Never went to LaNova. The owner at The Speaker Shop was always very nice to me. Real down to earth, didn't push anything on me, etc. For Revel dealers, check this link. I'm not sure if anything in NY is close enough, but maybe in PA? http://www.revelspeakers.com/distribution/index.asp |
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New member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 10 Registered: Jun-08 | Well Stu, looks like I will not be able to listen to the Revels. No dealer within 100 miles of Buffalo. I will stop into the Speaker Shop tomorrow to see what else they have to offer. I know they have everything in the Definitive brand including the new Mythos Towers. They also have Paradigm. I didn't pay attention to much else after listening to the 683's. The have a 2nd floor (as you probably already know) with a lot more high-end equipment that is well out of my price range. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2860 Registered: May-05 | I didn't know that. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3034 Registered: Sep-04 | Stu, To be honest I haven't noticed that the treble is unduly forward on the 683s. In my view it's heaps better than the older 600 series. The 683s also have that rather nifty midrange unit which I really like, but the rest is pretty much as you described. Sherman - I see that they have Niles, Rega and Wilson benesch. I suggest you ask them about those brands too (OK, so it would have to be Wilson benesch's entry level and I've only heard good things of Niles but I have no idea how much they cost). Also, I notice they do Yamaha. They should be able to demo some stuff to you with your receiver rather than the Macs... Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 13 Registered: Jun-08 | I will look into those brands when I stop by the Speaker Shop today to pick up a Pro-Ject Phono Box/USB I ordered. By the way, did I mention I am looking to use whatever speakers I purchase for both HT and music? I thought I only mentioned HT previously. Anyway, does that make a BIG difference in the floorstanding speaker I select? Are the 683's still a decent choice? |
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Bronze Member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 15 Registered: Jun-08 | I just saw a pair of Definitive BP7002 Bipolars on ebay. Do you think these would sound better than the B&W 683. Again, I will be pushing them with both a Yahmaha RX-V663 A/V and a Bryston ST Series amp. and using for both HT and music. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7058 Registered: Feb-05 | No...they are not better...not as good....not good! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10368 Registered: Dec-04 | I have not heard all of the Def Tech line, but I have not heard one that I like yet. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 16 Registered: Jun-08 | Ok, I went out and purchased the B&W 683's. I used JPS interconnects and initially plugged them into my Bryston 5 Channel THX amp. I also have a Yahmaha RX-V663 A/V Receiver. Before hooking up any of my other components I was anxious to hear how the speakers sound. I was NOT disappointed. Here's where I am puzzled. I had a buddy over that helped me carry them into my home and setup. He started reading the Bryston manual. He told me I might have a problem. He said I needed more connects to get the Bryston to work. Again, I had the interconnects in the Bryston initially and am almost positive that is where we were listening to the music from. However, my buddy did switch the interconnects to the Yahmaha where I am also getting audio. I woke up this morning thinking that does not make sense to me that the amp. was not working when I thought we heard audio from the speakers after connecting to the Bryston (only). So, I switched the interconnects back to the Bryston and now I hear NO audio from the speakers. Am I crazy??? I already admitted to being confused. How do I incorporate my Bryston 5 channel amp. to my system? I am sort of a novice in this. So, can someone also tell me if I can go from my Pre-Amp. output on the Yahmaha into the left and right channel of the Bryston amp.? I see a positive (red) and negative (black)out on the receiver and one coax each on the right and left channel of the Bryston. Sorry for being so long winded. I just want to get the most out of my speakers. I need my coffee now. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10373 Registered: Dec-04 | Sherm, doesn't the Yamaha have rca pre-outs? They go to the Bryston, of course. Check that the receiver is in bypass/stereo with no effects or multi channel. Select no sub. Once it is playing, you can bi amp the 683's with 2 more of the Bryston channels. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 18 Registered: Jun-08 | Nuck, Yes, the Yahmaha does have RCA pre-outs. One designated for the fronts (which is all I am connecting right now). I am a real novice when it comes to amps. The amp. has a five channel setup for the speakers (F,R,C,RR,LR). Then they have ONE input plug above each speaker channel. There are only two pre-amp outputs for the fronts on the receiver (as you know, one red, one white). Now, my question is (and forgive me for sounding so elementary) do you use single RCA connects plugging one in the red on the receiver and the other end to the one input on the speaker channel of the amp. doing the same for the white? Again, I really hate asking such a fundamental question. However, I haven't hooked up a sytem in years. Your help is greatly appreciated!!! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10374 Registered: Dec-04 | Sherman, it sounds correct. Re-check the receiver that it is in stereo and no sub is selected. Verify your input selection, try the tuner, even for static. The Brystom is a 5x mono, so any 2 channels will work. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 19 Registered: Jun-08 | Nuck, Thanks. I got it working. I have an older Adcom amp. and tested that first. I was able to get audio using the pre-amp outs with RCA's. So, I thought I would give the Bryston another try. It was actually all a matter of simply changing the setting on the rear from unbalanced to balanced. Sounds great. However, to be honest, I cannot tell much of a difference from when I had my B&W 683's running from the Yahmaha A/V Receiver. But, I'm told there is an advantage to having the amp. soley dedicated to the speakers. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10375 Registered: Dec-04 | Sherman, let them run in for a while...maybe quite a while. After you have a good idea of the sound signature, replace the jumper bars between the posts with speaker wire. After that, you can bi-amp the speakers with the Bryston, which I would prefer, myself. Still lots of things to play with, especially speaker placement. Keep those Bowers away from the rear and sidewalls! |
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Bronze Member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 20 Registered: Jun-08 | I did bi-wire the speakers. Now, what is bi-amping and how do you do it? I read about keeping the speakers at least 20 inches from the wall. Does it really affect the sound quality that much? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10376 Registered: Dec-04 | Yes, it does Sherman. Speaker placement can make a good speaker sound like salt. The Bowers do not need the reinforcement of walls too close, they do best with a lot of free air...to me, anyhow. |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2Rattle your ... Missouri Post Number: 2829 Registered: Dec-06 | Yeah I heard a pair of 800 Series from them and was surprised at the bad sound they had. I'm not sure what was causing it, but I know it wasn't the speakers. The 600 Series (in another room) sounded better to my ears... and I am sure it was placement. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12732 Registered: May-04 | . "I read about keeping the speakers at least 20 inches from the wall. Does it really affect the sound quality that much?" It depends on where you have them placed now. When I sold speakers I would suggest the client place the speakers in the corner (and on the floor if possible) and listen to some familiar music. Then pull the speakers and their stands (if required) out into the room as far as their cabling would allow and listen to the same music. Place "loudspeaker boundary reinforcement" into a search engine and do some reading. Then place "loudspeaker placement" into a search engine and do the same. . |
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New member Username: Gt80riderUSA Post Number: 8 Registered: May-08 | Sherman....... about the 683's... you mentioned you already liked the way they sound, if so- Buy them! everyone's ear and brain likes a somewhat different type of sound, and if you liked the 683's, cut the check... that is ALL that matters..... i've had some time in at home with them.... overall, very good speakers... especially in a home theater type of set-up.... are they the worlds best? certainly not, but nor should they be given their moderate price point... but can you find a significantly better sounding theater speaker for the same money? maybe..... but who has the time to hunt down and properly demo a few dozen speakers?? btw.... someone mentioned they are "hard to drive"..... there is nothing hard to drive about them, it's not like they are some strange 32 ohm speaker, they are not... but no, they are not really efficient like Klipschorns... but they can certainly produce more than reasonable volume under moderate power... and certainly comparable volume compared to the majority in it's price range... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7093 Registered: Feb-05 | If Frank says they are a bit difficult to drive then you can take it to the bank. Frank isn't another "keyboard jockey" who's answer to everyone is "cut the check". There is more to driving a speaker than reaching a specific volume. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 23 Registered: Jun-08 | Dave, absolutely right about the sound in theatre. They're great!!! I listen to a lot of jazz and they work well there too. I have not even put my entire system together yet and I am satisfied. I'm waiting to get rear speakers, a sub and a center channel. Also, shopping for a blue-ray player now. Any suggestions??? Anyone??? I may wait for the prices to come down just a little more as I'd really like to get a quality player. |
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Bronze Member Username: SnapcatPost Number: 62 Registered: Oct-07 | Congrats Sherman. Good choice for the price IMO. I have the 683's and enjoy them. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lokeyq3New York Post Number: 25 Registered: Jun-08 | Snapcat, How do you have your 683's hooked up (amp., pre-amp., etc.)? Are you using them for both music and HT? |
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Bronze Member Username: SnapcatPost Number: 64 Registered: Oct-07 | Sherman, I have a mixed set-up right now. I am using the 683's for both. 2 channel music: Rega Apollo-NADC372 (as pre)-Bryston3bsst-683. HT: Denon DVD-DenonAVR(main channels preout to NAD)-NADc372(volume turned up 1/2 way, aux input used)-bryson-683. I had used the NAD in the same way before getting the Bryston. I debated for some time whether to create a set-up such that a separate preamp is used (like now) or whether to get an integrated with HT bypass feature. The combo I have now has slight background noise with the HT volume turned up - no source playing. I'm hoping that will disappear with a Bryston preamp and balanced connections.... but I'm not that concerned for movies. |