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Using home gear for a bar?

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Archive through May 21, 2008Nick K100
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Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 278
Registered: Apr-08
Chris, most people really have little idea what is good for them. It's like saying that doctors should just give patients what they want, rather than spending the time to find out what they NEED. What people want and need are often two entirely different things. I've had people 'want' things that are in no way related to the problems they are experiencing. I would make more money selling people what they 'want', but then I'd have the same kind of constantly unhappy people that my competitor has, always trying to fix problems that the last fix didn't get, nor the one before that. Then I go out, find the problem, fix it relatively inexpensively after they've messed around and wasted $20K. Sometimes the only problem was an acoustic problem, like a glass coffee table or the speakers improperly setup. Coulda sold a $5000 DAC maybe, but I'd rather fix that actual problem. Selling what people what they need is in their best interest. The people that often waste the most money are those that buy what they 'want' because they think they know more than people in the industry (not that everyone in this industry is entirely honest).
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 279
Registered: Apr-08
Well, Nick, the next time I do sound for a batting cage, i'll be sure to put in JBLs
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 1546
Registered: Jun-07
lol Don't laugh, my local batting cages have pro JBL speakers in them.
 

Gold Member
Username: Gavdawg

Albany, New York

Post Number: 1147
Registered: Nov-06
"It's like saying that doctors should just give patients what they want, rather than spending the time to find out what they NEED."

you just made yourself sound like an even bigger idiot with that than you did before! He knows what he NEEDS!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10269
Registered: Dec-04
And wants.

Same as JV used to sell.
Find out how they listen, show 'em what can be done properly, then let the customer decide.

I had a 'stylist' refuse to chop off my long, long hair.
The cutter in the next booth had to do it, got 10$, and the hair.(went to a wig shop).
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 280
Registered: Apr-08
Gavin, you calling me an 'idiot' is a nice compliment. If you agreed with me, I'd be worried.

Nuck, there's a difference between you paying someone to do what you want, such as cut your hair to solve your 'too much hair' problem, and having someone cut your leg off to solve your 'too much hair' problem. We get people ALL THE TIME who want to solve their crappy sound with a DAC (even though they have Bose speakers) or solve their overdamped room with a more powerful amp or want to mate $2500/pr towers with a $300 subwoofer or use the wrong center speaker just because it's more expensive or think that their bad sounding speakers are 'revealing' the bad sound of their preamplifier. I'm not going to overlook nearly 20 yeas of experience dealing with this stuff because that's "what the customer wants".

I have a saying, "the customer is OFTEN wrong, but they always have a point". The thing to do is figure out what that point is and deal with it. Not just assume the customer actually understands what they need. I can't tell someone what amp or speaker they'll prefer, but I do know enough that if they describe the problem and their equipment, I can almost always figure out the real culprit and fix it, a whole lot easier than they can with little to no experience. Customers generally know just enough to be dangerous. The ones that really know what they want *and* need are few and far between and those get all the respect they deserve, the others get all the help and advice they need.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 281
Registered: Apr-08
Here's a good story. A guy came in and said he "needed" a car amp that was stable into .5 ohm. He was sure it existed and that's what he 'wanted'. I'm not a car guy at all, but I started asking questions. He was a really arrogant kid, suspicious of every question, but basically, he was wiring, as I recall, eight 12" four ohm car subs in parallel. Why? Who the hell knows. In any case, I just told him to wire them differently and get a good 4 ohm amp so he didn't set his car on fire. And maybe that he didn't need 8 subs in a car.

Same guy came back. He thought he was getting the deal of a lifetime on PSB 1000 speakers "half price" at a competitor, but wanted to know what we sold for around $1000. I showed him, but he said he was getting a better deal on the 1000s for only $1000. I told him that this was retail, so it was full price. He said they were $2000/pr speakers for $1000/pr. I told he was either confused or being lied to, so I showed him the retail price from a magazine. He got huffy with me and stormed off as though I was the guy who was lying to me (with my elaborately planted magazines, I suppose).

Funny thing is that he's been back a half a dozen times over the years, coming in cocksure he has all the answers and each time I have to explain reality to him, each time he gets kinda pissy or looks at me like I'm lying to him and he heads off to, I guess, get ripped off again.

A guy yesterday called wanting to fix his JVC "Tower of Power" system that broke. He went into great detail as to how great it was, how expensive it was and I had to keep telling him to just let it go. I'm sure he'll bumble around trying to get it fixed, but it's a $250 all in one ghetto style portable with a DVD changer that was lucky to last all of the year that it did.

I have these things happen pretty much every day. I could have lied and told him how great his portable was and take in a $75 deposit like many do here and then tell him it's $200 to fix. Well, that's what you guys would have me do since you think everyone knows more about audio than I do.......
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10271
Registered: Dec-04
It must be nice to meet idiots every day, rather than blather to them on a forum, like we all have to,JA.

And yes, some of us do know more than you, John...deal with it.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 282
Registered: Apr-08
Well, I clearly meet more 'idiots' on forums like this than in real life. There are customers that know enough to not need me, there are those that think they know enough not to need me and then there are those that know enough to know that they need the advice. The middle ones are the ones that only listen to the person with the biggest line of BS. Jan probably would have done well with them.

You clearly don't know more, so I don't know that I'd use the word 'us' in your case. Maybe you should just be less obnoxious and worry about yourself more rather than running around insulting people you don't know.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 324
Registered: Jul-07
John, please don't bang your head trying to fit it out through the door when you leave. And once you DO make it through the door, please give the people you find there to talk down to our sincere condolences.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 283
Registered: Apr-08
Chris, it's not ego, it's my JOB. I have been doing it every day for 15+ years. It's not a hobby, it's not something I just screw around with. My customers actually like me if you can believe that so there are no condolences necessary. It's amazing that people think that playing around with something gives them more knowledge than people that do it every day for a living. THAT is ego.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 325
Registered: Jul-07
Yep, that's right John. You're BETTER than everyone here....cuz your a "professional"....but you're NOT conceited.

BWAAAHAAAAHAAHAAA !!! You're killing me. BWAAAHAAHAAHAAAAAA !!! Hooo....boy.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 284
Registered: Apr-08
When did I say I was 'better'? I'm just good at what I do. I assume you are good at what you do and better at it and more knowledgeable than I am with respect to it. I'm confident in what I do and what I say. That's normal and healthy, last I checked. A little more healthy, anyway, than personally attacking people as you and others do.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12658
Registered: May-04
.

"Jan probably would have done well with them."


Look, d!ckhead, that remark was uncalled for. I've not said anything to you for quite awhile now no matter how stupid I thought your advice was. You call others for insults that you make with ease. Lay off the insults directed at me, @sshole. This is a forum not your playground. And do me one favor - gofuckyourself!
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 285
Registered: Apr-08
I just think it's ironic, that's all. I think I'm behind on insulting you by about 20:1.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12659
Registered: May-04
.

You're not. Stop the stupid games. You don't want to be insulted, don't insult others. This forum can do without your petty crap.


This idiotic little game you play where you're always the victim of the insult while you merrily go about attacking everyone else is for five year olds. Grow up and gofuckyourself - not in that order.


If you intend to help someone on a thread, do so. Insults don't fit into helping anyone, they only feed your overblown ego. You can make your case for your choice in equipment without saying a word about me. Stop being a pr!ck.


No reply necessary - just stop being a pr!ck.


.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 286
Registered: Apr-08
Someone needs to take their own advice!
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 326
Registered: Jul-07
Indeed they do.
 

Gold Member
Username: Gavdawg

Albany, New York

Post Number: 1148
Registered: Nov-06
I think that the more appropriate thing would be for JA to stop acting like a tool.
 

Gold Member
Username: Gavdawg

Albany, New York

Post Number: 1149
Registered: Nov-06
Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 287
Registered: Apr-08
Someone needs to follow their own advice (again)
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12661
Registered: May-04
.

Someone needs to grow up. This is a forum, fishy. Its purpose is to assist others. It is not a contest. You don't always have to have the last word - which means you do not have to respond to this other than, "Yes, I understand now", and your last words need not always be an insult to someone. Doing so only makes you look like a pitiful little brat. So, go ahead and look like a five year old with a hard on - post an insult to this - I know you can't resist.


If you came here to insult people, you can leave at any time and not be missed. If you came to make this a contest of who someone believes, you can leave at any time and not be missed. If you came here to help others with their problems and situations, then stop the BS and do just that. This thread should be about 25 posts long. As it stands 80% of this thread's 125+ posts has resulted from your interference and insults. That is ridiculous and uncalled for. Do what the forum was meant to do and leave the personal stuff on your own forum. You are wasting people's time and not helping them solve problems.


Got it?


Then do something about it.



Now go ahead and prove you cannot act like an adult.


.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 288
Registered: Apr-08
This is what is known as 'projection' amongst therapists ^

So, yes, I do understand you very well.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12663
Registered: May-04
.


I knew you couldn't do it!


ROTFLMAO
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 289
Registered: Apr-08
And i knew you couldn't be anything but childish in your responses. So what?

Personally, I think the reason you and others like to insult and harass others on forums is that if you tried it in real life, you'd get hospitalized. So this is a good way of trying to feel 'superior' to others by denigrating them and at no serious risk to your person.

The irony here is that you resort to insults and attacks the moment anyone gives advice different from your own, rather than letting your advice stand on its own two feet. This is what causes the mayhem you claim bothers you, not the fact that people have different opinions. Shall we count how many childish remarks and insults each of us made to see who is the real problem here?
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 328
Registered: Jul-07
In reality John, when the OP Dave posted his decision, all that was needed was a....Great Dave, I hope that works for you.....or some such kindness. Not a couple of posts questioning his decision and telling him in so many words he's screwing up.

IF you actually hung around here you'd understand that, and you'd understand that noone (other than YOU) is trying to ram their own bias down others throats. They give advice, thoughts, etc and let the individual do the rest. Sometimes they take the advice, sometimes not. Once they make their decision, for heavens sake don't ruin it for them. It's not your ears and it's not your money. And it's not a competition.

I know you don't get that, and I know your reply will be more "it's them, not me". But the fact is, almost everyone gets along here, differences and all. If you're getting a rough ride, there is a reason other than difference of opinion, as there are plenty of differences of opinion on this board. You've been told the reason why, but you simply won't accept it, because YOU'RE ALWAYS RIGHT ! (hint, hint).
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 290
Registered: Apr-08
Chris, you could be right *except* that I think he's basing some of the decision based on an incorrect assumption that pro gear is automatically more reliable than good audio gear. As he said in the post, the bar had been run with home gear previously, apparently with no downside, he said he was more comfortable with home gear in terms of setting up and maintaining. I wasn't the one that convinced him to go against his inclinations based on flimsy assumptions. I have dealt with this issue quite a bit over the last 15 years, but again, there were lots of flimsy assertions that I don't know what I'm talking about. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about having the experiencing doing exactly what he is talking about. I'm sure he'll be okay, but I will go on record as saying that the EV stuff that is probably in his budget is pretty mediocre in my all too recent experience. This job is going to be one where we claim no credit since, while we are getting it working, we really don't want to be associated with that level of quality sound.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 291
Registered: Apr-08
Besides, when you have to take apart the amp on a $15K powered speaker or two and send it in and wait for a few weeks to get it back, you'll understand my POV a little better.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1180
Registered: Apr-06
"Besides, when you have to take apart the amp on a $15K powered speaker or two and send it in and wait for a few weeks to get it back, you'll understand my POV a little better."

Presuming Dave has a respectable dealer, that's the dealer's problem, not Dave's. Of course, it sounds like he's going with passive pro gear in any event.

"Chris, you could be right *except* that I think he's basing some of the decision based on an incorrect assumption that pro gear is automatically more reliable than good audio gear."

No, putting "Professional" on something isn't an automatic guarantee of quality.
However, niceties like thick metal grills to protect the drivers, a cabinet built for abuse versus sitting in a living room, a warranty that covers commercial use, protection against blowing a speaker, etc sure don't hurt in a bar scene.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 292
Registered: Apr-08
Stefano, I never said differently. My main thing is that I couldn't live with the sound quality loss at a typically higher price. It reminds me of movie theaters when they play music through the speakers and you realize how bad the sound is through most of this stuff. We try to make a bar environment sound *better* that what people have at home. Reliability seems to come along for the ride with the good products.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 293
Registered: Apr-08
BTW, nice that you and Art can disagree with me without the name calling and insults. Maybe others can learn from that.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1181
Registered: Apr-06
"My main thing is that I couldn't live with the sound quality loss"

Keep in mind sound quality is a very subjective thing. For that 2% of us that would qualify ourselves as audio enthusiasts or audiophiles, yeah we probably wouldn't much care for a good chunk of affordable pro equipment. That other 98% that cling to Bose, their iPods with craptastic earbuds, etc on the other hand would probably be impressed with the dynamic capability and low distortion of a halfway decent pro system. And why not, when I go to concerts, they're using the same speakers!

"Reliability seems to come along for the ride with the good products."

Reliability comes along when products are used in the manner for which they were designed. If you expect a speaker to be able to take a solid punch from a drunk, you'd want something designed for that. Most home speakers just aren't. There are several pro speakers that are.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1182
Registered: Apr-06
"BTW, nice that you and Art can disagree with me without the name calling and insults."

I find it unfortunate that audio is a deeply divisive hobby, especially when most people could probably agree on most stuff, but due to what I'll call miscommunication, fail to.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12665
Registered: May-04
.


Who here is buying a $15k powered speaker? The inference is irrelevant to the discussion. Going from, "there's no need for booming loud sound", to, "it was designed more for the type of abuse it will be taking", I don't believe DS is planning on using his system in the same way the previous owner used his. He has made his decision and, if he screws up, no one's going to blame you, fishy. If he needs more help, he'll ask. Till then don't p!ss in his Cheerios.


.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 6903
Registered: Feb-05
I think that we (all of us in this hobby) tend to get deeply invested in our own dogma and begin to view our own opinions relative to what is in the end a very subjective hobby as "the truth".

In the end all I can really bring to the party is my own ears...are there technical facts that we can discuss that have some bearing on sound...ofcourse...however I believe that the variables are so great and the unknown so vast...that we can't know how anyone will percieve the sound of a system or component.

My wife is in her office just a few feet away from me (here in my office)...she's listening to her 1981 Kenwood receiver connected to a Sony changer and pair of very nice little Pinnacle bookshelf speakers...she's just jammin' to some Elmo Hope. To her it sounds fabulous...to me it's lacking something (at least). Remember she hears my systems all the time but to her that little system of hers is just the bee's knee's.

To audio and all of us crazy's involved in it....Salud!
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 294
Registered: Apr-08
Well, keep in mind that we do keep all of our bar speakers in the ceiling or up high on a wall where no one is likely to damage them!

And people are really impressed with what we do. The bar and waitstaff at the last big job we did (NHT IC4s/iWS and Sonos) go on about how much better the system is than the pro system it replaced and how it makes the work environment dramatically better. I really do believe it makes a real difference even when the audience is not filled audio buffs.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 295
Registered: Apr-08
Art, I think if you say something with conviction because you believe it, people think that is the same as "you're always right!" But if you have conviction, it's also easier to accept someone disagreeing because it doesn't influence your world and you don't feel the need to make the personal attacks. Oh, sure, I've got enough child in me to respond to a personal attack eventually, but hell, it's just audio. It's not like we're physicians arguing over which treatment is going to save someone's life. I personally don't have any problem with Dave going pro. I'm sure it will work just fine. I only disagree that it is necessarily a more reliable way to go because our stuff has been so incredibly reliable for us. Only when a customer manages to convince us to put in lesser gear than we think should be in there do we run into issues, but we got pretty smart about that early on.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1183
Registered: Apr-06
"Well, keep in mind that we do keep all of our bar speakers in the ceiling or up high on a wall where no one is likely to damage them!"

But they can still be blown, and potentially won't be warranted for commercial use (at least by companies that sell speakers for commercial use). Of course I'm sure you also recognize that in ceiling speakers and speakers mounted close to the ceiling are hardly ideal for sound quality.

"I really do believe it makes a real difference even when the audience is not filled audio buffs."

I have no doubt that you can put together a system that sounds better than the average bar/restaurant install. However, there are a number of factors that determine the quality of the final sound, not the least of which is the quality of the installation job (especially when you get into in ceiling work). And of course there is no mention of what the prior gear is or how the new gear is perceived as better. Then again, in my experience, the average schmoe wants slam and lots of clean sound. Even Cerwin Vega can handle that.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 296
Registered: Apr-08
Hey, I've seen plenty of blown pro speakers too! Anything can be blown. Good inceiling speakers can sound quite decent compared to a lot of things and a speaker that is recessed is better off acoustically than one that is close to a wall, I'm sure you recognize this as well - less diffraction and reflection to deal with. And in the our case, better dispersion throughout the area with fewer hot/cold spots.

As for the other gear, I forget the brand, it got tossed out. Not JBL or anything, but it was designed for commercial environments. The EV stuff we just installed is pretty mediocre. Bose has a pro divison too. Very reliable. Sounds incredibly bad.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 331
Registered: Jul-07
"Chris, you could be right *except* that I think..."

For me the important part is bolded. That's what you think, so great. Other people may disagree, so at some point let it go. Whether it's based on an incorrect assumption or not is now irrelevent, and a matter of opinion. When do you stop arguing that you're right ?

And changing the discussion to "well, he might have what he wants but not what he needs" is terribly condescending IMO. Like you said, it's just audio.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1184
Registered: Apr-06
"Hey, I've seen plenty of blown pro speakers too! Anything can be blown."

Perhaps, but its 1000x harder to blow a powered pro monitor than a NHT in wall speaker. Protection circuitry built into the amplifiers ensure that. There are also several passive pro speakers with protection circuitry, such as CV and their defend circuit.

"Good inceiling speakers can sound quite decent compared to a lot of things"

Sure, but they're probably a couple steps off from the PSB bookshelf solution you made earlier (presuming the PSBs had at least respectable placement). Of course, I suspect they aren't cheap either, especially with installation.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 297
Registered: Apr-08
When do you stop arguing that I'm wrong? You seem to have a great ability to detect condescending except when you're doing it - "Yep, that's right John. You're BETTER than everyone here....cuz your a "professional"....but you're NOT conceited. " Maybe you could try not doing that about which you complain as a start.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 298
Registered: Apr-08
Stefano - 1000x harder? C'mon now. And again, you're back to powered speakers at that point which isn't happening. The protection circuitry in some passive speakers sometimes works, and you could fuse any speaker if you wanted. On the other hand, sometimes they lock up prematurely and you have to go reset or replace them. That's pretty much a wash. Today's speakers can handle amazing amounts of abuse compared to 20 years ago. My point about the inceilings we use is that they're better than the pro stuff we are taking out.

So, basically we have a stalemate. For every reason against using good home gear, I can come up with reasons why it's still a good option. I guess if I had all these major problems others insinuate, I'd be right there with you, but we do a lot of bar/restaurant systems and just don't have the problems. I can't say you'd get the same result going down to Circuit City.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1185
Registered: Apr-06
"1000x harder?"

Yup; thats the beauty of a built in amp crafted for the driver its going to drive, with a built in limiter to keep it from killing said driver. With a regular speaker, just keep pushing the volume knob higher and eventually it will die, one way or another.

"The protection circuitry in some passive speakers sometimes works,"

I'd say it works pretty well from what I've seen.

"My point about the inceilings we use is that they're better than the pro stuff we are taking out. "

I don't think that I'd make a blanket statement that they're better than all pro speakers at that price point though, given that you apparently aren't ultra experienced/familiar with them.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 299
Registered: Apr-08
I don't think I ever made that blanket statement. There are almost always exceptions to generalizations. People tend to infer blanket statements when often it was just a generalization. On the rare occasion i really want to make a 100% statement of fact, pretty much emphasize the heck out of it. But that's pretty rare for me as there is also often the exception you never knew existed. Keep in mind that we wouldn't be pulling something out if it were sufficient.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1186
Registered: Apr-06
Out of curiosity, why wasn't it sufficient? Just sound quality? I presume that when it was first purchased that it was sufficient, so what changed?
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 300
Registered: Apr-08
Usually it is because either the system has slowly failed over time or because it simply didn't have the fidelity they had wanted or because a new owner wanted something better. I'd like to do a really high-end system in a dance club someday, but don't quite have anything *that* powerful. I would have, but the product was cancelled. Or maybe a DEQX'd system. Lord knows Rush's concert could have used DEQX.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12668
Registered: May-04
.

" ... it simply didn't have the fidelity they had wanted ... "


fishy! No one can hear better equipment. Right? NAD is as good as it gets since no one can hear anything better. Right? Why spend more money when you can't hear the benefit. Right? Why beat this into the ground? Dave, as far as we can tell, has made up his mind.


C'mon, fishy, stick to one story line. This is a bar and Dave says he wants something that can handle "abuse". Dave seems to have made up his mind. What Dave wants can be done several ways and he's decided on one way. Now it's time for you to let this go.



"I personally don't have any problem with Dave going pro. I'm sure it will work just fine. I only disagree that it is necessarily a more reliable way to go because our stuff has been so incredibly reliable for us. Only when a customer manages to convince us to put in lesser gear than we think should be in there do we run into issues, but we got pretty smart about that early on."


What? You badger them until they let you put in the system you want instead of what they want? If you "personally" don't have a problem with Dave using pro gear, let it drop.


fishy, you don't get why you are "attacked" on this forum, do you? First, it's because you play the victim all the time. Everyone is attacking fishy. Well, that's BS. You feed the fire, fishy. People get rude with you because you get rude with them. Let this drop. Unless Dave asks for more help, stop flapping your fingers with more rebuttals. Just shut up! You don't always have to have the last word and you don't always have to be right. You dodge and duck and your story changes whenever it's convenient to cover your present line of BS. That's one reason people here get rude with you, fishy. To us you simply lie when it's convenient. And the only thing that never changes is, according to you, you are always right and you will always have the last word.


Figure this out, fishy. All but one person here has been telling you how to get along and still have your opinion. Listen for once. You get along with us and we'll get along with you. It's been done before. You are not the first know it all who showed up on the ecoustics doorstep. Now, if getting along is not why you showed up at this forum, then you'll continue to get insults directed your way. Listen to this, fishy, this forum did fine before you showed up with a multitude of different opinions because everyone knew when to let something go and discuss opinions without beating them into the ground. You don't know how to do that.


Let this go. This thread is not progressing and Dave's not here, man. If you learn to get along and stop b!tchin' about being attacked, this forum will do fine. Otherwise it's going to be a long, rocky road that none of us looks forward to travelling. It's up to you, fishy. No one else is going to change until you do. That should be obvious. You get your opinions but you learn to let things go. Stop pontificating and stop telling people they're wrong because you've done this for X number of years. Discuss like an adult and we'll do fine. Keep up the way you've done so far and there is not going to be a happy forum for a long time.


.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 301
Registered: Apr-08
If I discuss things like an adult, that largely leaves Art and Stefano engage in a conversation. I have to drop down nearly a dozen grade levels just to talk respond to your nonsense. How many insults did you manage to squeeze in your last post? Don't go away mad, Jan, just go away.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 332
Registered: Jul-07
"Don't go away mad, Jan, just go away."

Guess you didn't have any trouble dropping the grade levels. Yep, complain about being attacked and then attack. You're predictable if nothing else John.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12670
Registered: May-04
.

Look, fishy, I'm trying to lay this out as plain and simple as possible. You have been and continue to be a grade A-1 jerk. If your intention when you showed up here was to be onbnoxious, you've succeeded with flying colors. If that was your intention, would you please go somewhere else? We're quite tired of you.


From what I read this is a hobby with you - go to a forum and get in fights. OK, you've been here and done that. Now leave. There are other forums waiting for your inspiration. We prefer someone who can at least act like an adult from time to time. You clearly cannot. You are a petulant child who stomps his feet and throws fits, thinks only he is right and must always have the last word. This is not an insult - it is a fact. You are one sick puppy and you are unwanted here in your present condition.


Everyone here is capable of an adult conversation. Everyone! We had many before you showed up. We would like to have more but you get in the way by being a d!ck. None of us particularly care if you stay or go but you get in the way of conversation in your present iteration. Your response to my post is a perfect expample. Just stop being a d!ck and you will have converstaions with everyone here.


Whythehell are you such a d!ck in the first place? What exactly is wrong with you? We didn't do anything to you and you started kicking down doors with your first post. Why don't you try getting along with anyone besides Art and Stefano instead of being a d!ck to everyone? Or else just leave. You are not wanted here in your present condition. I don't know how to make it more plain to anyone. We like to get along - you do not. No one here likes you. I am certain this is not the first forum where you've been told to leave. You are a troll. The fact Art and Stefano don't rip you a new one is inconsequential. Art tried to make it plain that there are differing opinions of audio. You obviously missed his point because you weren't listening to anyone but yourself. You are a pain in the @ss. Not an insult - just a fact. Get along or go away. Why stay where you are obviously not wanted? What do you think you bring to this forum? It's certainly not a level of intelligent discussion. 90% of your posts are insults to someone. That's fun?! You really don't know enough to not get yourself in trouble. Knowing the roll off of a fourth order crossover doesn't make you a genius, you know? I hesitate to call you an idiot but only for a moment. Normal people try to get along - you do not. Go away!


I don't need any smartass remarks in response to this post though I know they will come. It's what you do for fun. You are a troll. A stinking, decrepit troll of the worst kind.


Listen, fishy, we don't like you. Go away. Either that or clean up your act. Stop being a d!ck.


How phucking hard is that to understand?


.
 

Silver Member
Username: Unbridled_id

ChicagoUsa

Post Number: 341
Registered: Mar-04
"Listen, fishy, we don't like you. Go away. Either that or clean up your act".

Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in. Who cares what you and yours (Chris H) do and do not like? I love the clean up your act part. Jan if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black what is?
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 302
Registered: Apr-08
Chris, your constant refrain is also predictable. No, I'm not the type of person who will absorb incessant attacks without throwing a punch or two. So what are you saying? That if I absorb 10 insults and toss out even 1 or 2 in return, I'm the bad guy? That sounds logical
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 303
Registered: Apr-08
Jan, do you notice that you have to misspell every other word because you're not even allowed to say most of what you say on this forum? I'm sorry, but when you say 'we', is that Barack Obama in your pocket? Because it's not your forum, you aren't forum 'president' and not everyone is on your side. And, to be honest, I couldn't possibly care less what you think. Though, it is kind of funny watching you meltdown every hour or two. I respect Art and Stefano because I can disagree with them as much as anyone, but they see the big picture. For you, it's personal. I really don't care if Art and Stefano like me either but I do respect them for being adults. That's why I can have a good back and forth with them, but not with you or your sycophants.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12672
Registered: May-04
.

Then leave. fishy, if you were helping anyone other than your own overblown ego, I would say stay and be of assistance. You're not and you should find another forum to infest.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 304
Registered: Apr-08
It seems to me that this forum was 'infested' long ago by forum bullies and that is why, with a few exceptions it's really down to a few immature bullies and a bunch of people that have only 20-100 posts and probably won't be here in month or two because of your incessant need to control the debate. If this were the old lonely effeminate ex-sales guy forum, that would be one thing, but it's not.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12673
Registered: May-04
.

There are people who spend their life making things better for others. And there are people who suck up the oxygen from those people. You, fishy, epitomize the latter and its a shame someone doesn't take you out and shoot you. You make the world a sadder place by your incessant stupidity.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 306
Registered: Apr-08
Fine, I'm a 'pr!ck'. Are you done now?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12674
Registered: May-04
.


No, I want to have the last word this time. But a gigantic pr!ck like you with a tiny d!ck and sh!t for brains won't let that happen, will you?
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 309
Registered: Apr-08
Nope.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12676
Registered: May-04
.

Good God, you're better than Comedy Central!

ROTFLMAO! AT FISHY!!!
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 311
Registered: Apr-08
Yes, i know, i 'fell into' your elaborately laid 'trap' if it helps improve your low self-esteem.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12679
Registered: May-04
.

My esteem doesn't need boosting as long as you're still around here. It's pretty easy to feel superior to a gigantic pr!ck with a tiny d!ck and sh!t for brains. He11, my dog feels superior to you. Christ! My dog is superior to you and he licks his own d!ck.



ROTFLMAO at fishy!!!


What a night!!!



Here's what you do, fishy, don't respond. Don't have the last word. I bet you can't do it. You are a pathological nutcase - how's that for a psychological diagnosis for you? You can't help yourself! You cannot not have the last word. All your bets about who can hear what and do what and all your ego driven palaver about DBT's and you cannot simply not have the last word. You're nuts!


Now, if you answer that, you are nuts. We can add that to your list of problems.


This should be good.



.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 312
Registered: Apr-08
No, I just like watching you project. It's amusing to me.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12680
Registered: May-04
.

I can barely type it ...


ROTFL OHGOD!!! ROTFL THIS IS TOO MUCH ROTFLMAO FOR REAL!!!!!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



My dog is better than you, fishy!


.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12681
Registered: May-04
.

fishy!


If you respond to this one, you are a pathological liar who cannot hear anything better than a NAD product.


Whatjasay?



Are you going to let me have the last word?




.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 316
Registered: Apr-08
Did a fellow second grader tell you that's how it works?

Let me give it a try - if you respond you are an old, immature g&y man who's only true friend is his dog. Did it work?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12685
Registered: May-04
.

I don't know, how can you take the word of a homophobic, pathological liar made so by his tiny d!ck who hates his mother?


ROTFLMAO at fishy!



.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 321
Registered: Apr-08
I guess it did work!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12689
Registered: May-04
.

fishy, you are boring me. My side of this is finished.

Now go ahead and have that last word you pathologically require knowing that if you do reply to this you are acknowledging you are a waste of human space masquerading as a pile of rotting, stinking, maggot infested crap who should not be allowed to walk this Earth.


I will be waiting for your reply.


.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 327
Registered: Apr-08
For someone who's bored, you sure hang on my every word.
 

Gold Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Canada

Post Number: 2166
Registered: Feb-04
Wow... Same old forum I see.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 338
Registered: Apr-08
i'm assuming that can't be my fault since i just arrived, right?
 

Gold Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Canada

Post Number: 2167
Registered: Feb-04
And I see you took my spot!
 

Gold Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Canada

Post Number: 2168
Registered: Feb-04
Read this thread. It's very similar.

http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/389464.html
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 343
Registered: Apr-08
What is you, one of them high phalootin' science types with your fancy schmancy book lurnin' and facts and scientrinsic methods? Cuz we don't cotton to yur type 'round here!
 

Gold Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Canada

Post Number: 2170
Registered: Feb-04
Sounds about right...
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 344
Registered: Apr-08
Gee, i thought Jan and Vignettes loved everyone except me!
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1187
Registered: Apr-06
FWIW at this point, I've had a short correspondence with NHT regarding the use of their speakers in a commercial installation on the order of what Dave was describing, specifically the Architectural series since they were mentioned.

The e-mails went (verbatim) as follows:

Me: "Hello,
I am just inquiring to see if NHT's architectural series would be recommended for a commercial (bar) setup, and if it would be covered under warranty for such usage. Thanks in advance."

NHT: "It depends on the usage. If you're using them to play background music in a restaurant or bar, they're covered under warranty. But if they're planned to be used as a part of a PA-system (DJ), then they're not covered under our warranty. These speakers (all manufacturers) are not designed to be used as a PA-system. They cannot handle loud music for a long period of time."

Me: "To give a better idea of usage, most of the time (95%), the system will be used for background music. However, there are times when it will be asked to perform as a "PA system" for perhaps two to four hours at a stretch. In that case, would you advise the use of the NHT architectural system, or move to "commercial grade" speakers?"

NHT: "Then I would advice to go to a commercial grade PA-speakers."

I don't feel a need to debate the reliability and suitability in this instance of a pro versus home system much more. However, I would have to say that given what Dave has expressed he wishes to do with this system, at least one manufacturer of home speakers is advising against their product line.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 346
Registered: Apr-08
When did Dave say he was going to turn the bar into a disco with a DJ and ear splitting levels? We just put 'pro' EV stuff in a bar as I mentioned earlier and it isn't up to ear splitting DJ stuff either. On the other hand, if you just want to plug in an iPod and let it spin tunes and volumes that allow loud conversation rather than "HUH?!?", they're just fine.

You're back to labeling all pro gear as more durable than all home gear and that isn't the case, as well as conflating normal, even loud bar SPL to ear-splitting disco or live band levels for which Dave did not express a need.

C'mon Stefano, you're better than this.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1188
Registered: Apr-06
"When did Dave say he was going to turn the bar into a disco with a DJ and ear splitting levels?"

He didn't specifically state DJ levels; however he did specifically state: "As far as the question about volume, I want the ability to crank it up, even if I rarely do." Beyond that, he's just now purchasing the bar. Lord only knows what he wants to do with it two, five, or ten years in the future. Perhaps at some point he will want a disco night, a dance night, or do something other than just putting out background music. At least with pro gear, he'll have that option without kissing his warranty goodbye.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 348
Registered: Apr-08
In five or ten years, he wouldn't have a warranty! I would suggest that the 'pro' gear I've seen is not as durable at the same price, except maybe the cabinet. It's usually pretty cheaply built, actually. I crank up my stereo all the time and never break it! Imagine that!

Besides, I have 15+ years of experience doing this without problems. Unless you think I'm just lying or making it up or something. The only problem of which I can think stems from a system I didn't install and the crossover settings weren't right, so a midbass failed. Part of it is setting it up properly too.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1189
Registered: Apr-06
"In five or ten years, he wouldn't have a warranty!"

Depends on the manufacturer, but certainly there are a few that last at least five years, and quite possibly there are a few with 10 year warranties. Either way, if at any point, be it six months or six years from now, Dave wants to do a little more "cranking" with his system, he has more flexibility doing so with a pro system. Certainly you can acknowledge that "cranking" is what they are built for.

"I would suggest that the 'pro' gear I've seen is not as durable at the same price, except maybe the cabinet."

For the given situation, NHT's e-mail response seems to suggest that pro gear is the way to go. Perhaps not el cheapo stuff that is labeled "pro gear", but nonetheless something that is *actually* "professional grade".

"Besides, I have 15+ years of experience doing this without problems. Unless you think I'm just lying or making it up or something."

I'm not saying that you are liar. I can certainly believe that home gear can manage the job, depending on the level of abuse we're talking about. But as you said previously, the "safe" choice is pro gear.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 358
Registered: Apr-08
My point is that I find the sound quality unacceptable and we are called upon precisely because we can give their customers the better experience. Without the downsides. If it is a disco, then I tell people to go get big, bad PA speakers. But bars and restaurants? We can do that all day long, with no downsides. It's not like we put crap, you know.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1194
Registered: Apr-06
I'm not claiming you're putting in crap. I suspect that in a reasonable number of instances your setup would work and be supported by the manufacturer.

What I am claiming is that this easily has the potential to be an instance where it would be "unsafe" to go with home speakers, if Dave does want to crank it as he has previously stated, as that may not be supported by the warranty.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 359
Registered: Apr-08
People have different ideas of what 'crank' means. There's loud and then there's 'drive all the customers out' loud. People go to bars to talk, they go to discos to dance.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1196
Registered: Apr-06
People go to bars for all sorts of reasons. Some bars have karaoke. Some bars have live music. Some bars have nights where they do things a little differently than normal, such as Dave's idea of letting customers bring in their music and play away. We have no idea what Dave wants to do and I doubt Dave has significant long term plans about what he wants to do. I suspect he'll cater to what his customers want. In any event, having a system designed to handle (not to mention warranted to handle) higher volumes allows him flexibility in deciding what the heck he wants to do.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12699
Registered: May-04
.

Dave stated he thought the pro audio speakers would better tolerate the "abuse" he intended to dish out. Go back and read the posts, fishy, and in the future try to pay attention to what people tell you not just what you want to hear.


In five years time, he won't have a warranty on a home speaker?! What you pull out of your butt as an argument is just astounding. The issue here is he won't have any warranty, zip, nada none! - if he uses the NHT's in a commercial application which the company deems is abusive. And Dave has said he intends to abuse the system. Most home audio companies feel the same way. Keep abusing them and they won't fix them. And Dave said he was going to abuse the system.



Why do you continue to argue what is not defensible? Dave doesn't want your suggestion. End of the thread. Shut up with the idiotic arguments that have no bearing on what is stated within the thread.

.
 

Gold Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Canada

Post Number: 2174
Registered: Feb-04
Dave,

If you go the route of home speakers for a bar, might I suggest that you pick high-sensitivity speakers that will play louder with less power. That will give you a head-start to be able to crank it on occasion.

If you don't mind used, you could buy 3 pairs of Klipsch Heresy II speakers and still be within budget. The non-foam woofer suspension will tolerate a bar environment better than most new speakers will. The high sensitivity rating is 97dB @ 1watt/1meter. Being used, you are not so worried about scratches, and there's no warranty to void. The fact that they have already lasted 15 years of so before you bought them tells you the speaker is not likely to fall apart either. Just a suggestion.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 353
Registered: Jul-07
Dave's long gone PG. Loooong gone. John's just rolling up his post count, rewriting history, and refusing to acknowledge the opinions of others. As long as you don't talk about any differences you've heard in electronics you'll be safe.

Oh, and if you think that a dvd player sounds the same as any particular cdp or dac you choose up to $20,000 or so, you should be ok. If you think otherwise, better keep it to yourself.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 367
Registered: Apr-08
Chris, opinions are easy. Having one based on experience or based in fact is harder. I didn't say everything sounds the same, only that it's no where near the differences in speakers. If you notice the differences in electronics so easily, you should be horrified that your left speaker doesn't sound like your right one. "night and day"
 

Gold Member
Username: Gavdawg

Albany, New York

Post Number: 1150
Registered: Nov-06
remember my original post about Meyersound?


obvious that JA has never heard of them, or any other respectable high-end pro grade sound reinforcement company.

MeyerSound
Nexo
L'Acoustics
McCauley

just to name a few
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 2760
Registered: May-05
"Chris, opinions are easy. Having one based on experience or based in fact is harder."

Kind of like prefering the NAD M3 over the Bryston B60 or B100 without ever hearing them? That's pretty hard. Please enlighten me on how to prefer one product over another without hear one of them, Master.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 368
Registered: Apr-08
i didn't say i preferred either, except that the NAD clearly measures better and has more useful features. And I'm extremely happy with the M3's performance. It's transparency is as good as I can imagine.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12702
Registered: May-04
.

"It's transparency is as good as I can imagine."


Yep! We know that.
 

New member
Username: Lythairasta

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-08
it so good

http://speaker-buying-guide.blogspot.com
Speaker Buying Guide
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 2764
Registered: May-05
"It's transparency is as good as I can imagine."

"Chris, opinions are easy. Having one based on experience or based in fact is harder."

Who's on first?
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1201
Registered: Apr-06
To repeat a recent post I made in the OT section that now seems relevant:

K-mart sucks.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 355
Registered: Jul-07
""Chris, opinions are easy. Having one based on experience or based in fact is harder."

Oh good, you're going to talk down to me again. I thought I wasn't worthy of your tremendous insights. So which opinions am I expressing that are not based on experience of fact ? Or are you just responding to what you think I am imagining ? It's so hard to keep up to your dizzying intellect John. And I DO mean DIZZYING.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 372
Registered: Apr-08
I'm sorry, i meant real experience, not unscientific gear swapping, a joint and a lot of imagination.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 2772
Registered: May-05
Real and scientific experience is listening to an amp who's "...transparency is as good as I can imagine" and not comparing it to anything else.

Directly comparing two amps is "...unscientific gear swapping, a joint and a lot of imagination."

I really need a lesson in science and reality.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 380
Registered: Apr-08
That's why I said 'as i can imagine' since I haven't tried to prove its transparency. But the measurements and complete lack of audible noise support transparency.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 2774
Registered: May-05
Because measurements are taken using simulated and static loads, rather than using real speakers and actual music, would it be fair to say that measurements alone are not a good substitue of actual listening and direct side by side comparison, DBT or sighted?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12703
Registered: May-04
.

ROTFLMAO at fishy!!!


OMG, I'm going to puke!


Lack of audible noise!


Measurements = transparency?!


OMG, I'm going to puke! That's one of the best of your scientific "opinions" so far, fishy. A real knee slapper that is! Keep it up, fishy, you are always good for a laugh. And people actually nod their head and hand you cash when you say this crap to them? Sheeeeeesh! Oh, yeah, I've worked with your type. He was a barrel of laughs too but at least he was consistent and didn't have to make stuff up or ignore questions whenever he got backed into a corner. He actually did know quite a bit but just preferred not to bother remembering it. Gee, fishy, you make me miss Les.



.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Pcstockton

Post Number: 45
Registered: Apr-08
Jan,
you said you were going to leave this thread forever.....

quote "fishy, you are boring me. My side of this is finished."

This thread is so tired.

You guys should exchange emails and argue there. Or better yet... how about a celebrity death match??

WE ALL GET IT!!!

Jan hates John. Ok. Got it. No mystery there.

John cannot let it go. OK, got that as well.

There is nothing further that can be added to this discussion. Which probably should NOT even be in the "Home Audio" section.

Are there not moderators on this website?

I mean seriously, all that is happening in this thread now is pointless discussion, and name calling.


Summation:

John likes "home gear".
Others suggest "pro gear".
Jan hates John.
And Chris piled on.
And Jan thinks repeatedly calling someone names lends credence to his position.
And NO ONE is willing to let it go away.

My guess is that more than one of you have actually been in a fist fight lately. Probably one you started by giving someone the finger in your monster truck of a car. Or because someone looked at your girlfriend.

Ok that last one is simply impossible.

John, let it go..... Jan, grow the hell up.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 381
Registered: Apr-08
Well said, great idea.
 

Gold Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Canada

Post Number: 2175
Registered: Feb-04
Patrick, with 45 posts, proves that post count is not an indicator of good forum manners and good sense. This forum would be a much better place with more members like you Patrick.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Pcstockton

Post Number: 46
Registered: Apr-08
Peter,
Thanks for the compliment... or possibly the top notch sarcasm, which i truly appreciate as well.

People on this site such as Nuck, Stu, Art, Frank and others, are simply the tops. This is a cool place. I hope to attempt to give good advise when i can speak intelligently and from experience.

Just wondering.... can someone ask their teenage daughter what "ROTFLMAO" means?
I am actually an accomplished text messager, and i am only 34, so I am not totally out of touch, but I cannot decode that one.

OMG i get.... although possibly not. I thought "IMHO" meant "Honest" not "Humble", or the other way around..... whatever.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 386
Registered: Apr-08
rolling on the floor, laughing my axx off. Some use that because they read something really funny, some use it as a way of being sarcastic. Around here, IMHO could mean 'hallowed' not humble
 

Gold Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Canada

Post Number: 2176
Registered: Feb-04
Honest compliment; not sarcasm.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Pcstockton

Post Number: 48
Registered: Apr-08
Sweet.... thanks P.

Although i do appreciate good sarcasm. Sometimes people are a little too serious in here.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA United States

Post Number: 1205
Registered: Apr-06
I wouldn't get too cuddly with Peter, Patrick. He has been accused in the past of being almost completely responsible for global warming, and destroying the sea life off the coasts of Hawaii.

Now thats sarcasm!
 

Silver Member
Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM United States

Post Number: 388
Registered: Apr-08
Technically, i think that's more like irony
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12704
Registered: May-04
.

Even when it doesn't concern him fishy has to have the last word. Now that's funn ... no, that's pathetic.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12705
Registered: May-04
.

PS - Interesting series of insults you wed with your call for no insults. You'll fit in around here.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Pcstockton

Post Number: 52
Registered: Apr-08
Jan,
It seems that you cannot let the last word pass on by either. Can I please ask you a couple of serious questions? Why do you hate on John so much? And why, specifically do you call him fishy? And what does it in fact mean?

I assume that you dont want your completely hilarious (now that's sarcasm) repetitive use of the "nickname" to go misunderstood.

Why oh why do you continue the "fishy" thing. It is completely childish. Do you do this in real life as well? If so I dont expect you have many friends.

Sure, John might be an annoying crank, know-it-all, and you obviously differ in opinion. But how are you helping us get past that?

I ask you one more serious question. Given the generally accepted tenet of email and other online correspondence, that anything you say online, you should be willing to yell at the top of your lungs to a group of strangers, or loved ones.

Would you be willing to print out this thread and give it to someone you truly respect? Or would you be too ashamed.

I dont know very many adults that either treat others like that, or respect those that do.

For what its worth (not much to you i presume), you come across as a 13 year old brat.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Pcstockton

Post Number: 54
Registered: Apr-08
Jan,

Exactly what insults are you referring to.

I suppose the following, my quote, could be taken as such,

"My guess is that more than one of you have actually been in a fist fight lately. Probably one you started by giving someone the finger in your monster truck of a car. Or because someone looked at your girlfriend."

But it was more a failed attempt at humor than an insult, or perhaps a non effective motivator to get my point across.

I see now that your singular goal is to ruffle feathers, and rope other people into your world of hate. If your true purpose is otherwise, it is hard to tell.

And I am not insulting you in so saying. I am merely stating my observations.

And you got me..... you suckered me in.

On now, to bigger, better, and more productive things.

Good luck everyone.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10295
Registered: Dec-04
It will pass, PS. It always does settle down.
Other threads are more entertaining and enlightening.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Pcstockton

Post Number: 59
Registered: Apr-08
nuck,
agreed.
 

Gold Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Canada

Post Number: 2177
Registered: Feb-04
Except some potential forum members either leave in the meantime, or only ever lurk because they don't want to become the next target. The forum losses out with this kind of behaviour.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jblsince1989

Post Number: 85
Registered: Mar-08
I keep wondering what does Jan look like and is it a woman? The latest Intel tells us that this is Jan pictured on the right with the red circle around it.

Upload
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12707
Registered: May-04
.


I don't play with guns but I do like Ernie.
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