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Noise on a brand new Pro-ject Debut III

 

New member
Username: Parade

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-08
Hi there!

First off, thanks to all the regular members of this forum. I've lurked here for a while, and the info posted has been very helpful On to business, then:

I'm experiencing three types of unexpected noise on a brand new Pro-Ject Debut III turntable. I bought it from an online dealer (I know, I know...) so I don't have much to go on... I'll describe how I set the thing up in a moment, but first here are the symptoms:

1) There is a quiet, ever-present hum in the background.

2) I can hear the sound of the turntable rotating.

3) Pops and cracks are far too frequent and pronounced.

All of these can become louder as I increase the volume.

To set up the turntable, I took the following steps (the order may be a bit off, I did this a few days ago):

- removed the screws that are in there to hold things in place during transport
- attached the belt
- attached the counterweight and adjusted until the tonearm was floating as level as my eye could tell
- zeroed out the dial on the counterweight
- adjusted the weight to 17.5

From what I've read here and elsewhere (and certainly not in the Pro-Ject manual! ), that seemed like what I needed to do. Does that sound right to you guys? From what I understand the cartridge is pre-aligned at the factory, so that part wasn't necessary.

I then hooked it up to my stereo (an older Sony model that has a built in amp, pre-amp, etc), attached the ground, and spun a few like-new/near-mint records. Unfortunately, they all exhibited the problems I mentioned above. I cleaned all of the records with an anti-static brush and solution, re-adjusted the counterweight, and as a last resort even tried ever-so-gently applying isotropic alcohol to the needle with a fine watercolor brush -- all to no avail.

Here's where it gets very strange: I have an old, bottom-of-the-line $99 Sony turntable (the PS-LX250H -- it's identical to those common budget Audio Technica tables) that I haven't used in a while. I decided to plug it in with the built-in pre-amp disabled, in order to rule out any problems with the stereo. Oddly enough, the Sony turntable sounded beautiful compared to the Pro-Ject. No frequent pops/cracks/hum, etc.

Any idea where I'm going wrong here? I'm very puzzled. It seems like the Pro-Ject is just much more sensitive to *something* than the Sony turntable, whether it's static, or if the cartridge is somehow picking something up... I just don't know. Let's say just for the sake of argument that I accidentally dropped the tonearm and the needle hit the platter or something (I don't remember doing anything like that) -- would that be enough to have permanently damaged the needle/cause these problems? I just don't know what to do.

Many, many thanks in advance for any and all ideas.
 

New member
Username: Parade

Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-08
Oh -- I left out the part during assembly where I hooked up the anti-skating weight, looping the line on the middle notch.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12352
Registered: May-04
.

"1) There is a quiet, ever-present hum in the background.

2) I can hear the sound of the turntable rotating.

3) Pops and cracks are far too frequent and pronounced."



1) Hum is typically a ground problem. Does the hum exist when the table is sitting without playing? In other words, does the noise exist when the motor is not running? If so, then you have a problem that is likely related to the cables running from either the table proper - a ground connection to the pre amp - or the interconnecting cables running from the cartridge tags to the phono pre amp inputs.


Did you connect a grounding cable from the table itself to your pre amp? If not, you need to do this unless the owner's manual for your table specifically suggests this is not needed (some arms include a ground cable in their interconnects). If this is not the problem, lock down the arm, place the stylus guard on the cartridge and carefully disconnect each lead from the cartidge tags one at a time until you remove the offending lead. This will probably be one of the ground leads from the arm and when you replace it the problem will either be solved or the hum will return. If the noise returns, break each connection point between the cartridge and the phono pre amp individually until you discover the next point were the hum disappears. When you've found that point swap out another interconnect cable for the bad one to check for broken connections in the cable. Make a note of where the noise seems to originate - in the table or in the cables.


2) You'll have to be more specific about what you are hearing. Are you hearing motor noise through your system? Are you hearing motor noise coming only from the motor itself but not through the system. Are you hearing the sound of a bearing that isn't seated correctly? Is this noise coming only from the table proper or is it heard through the speakers? Are you hearing needle chatter from the stylus in the groove?


3) Record noise is something that is not easily solved without knowing why it exists. The most common offender is poor record care. Your new stylus is certainly tracking a portion of the groove which has never been touched by the stylus in your Sony table. The new stylus has a finer dimension and sits deeper into the "V" of the groove. If you've been sloppy in your record cleaning, you've washed the dirt off the top of the groove only to have it settle into the bottom of the groove where your new stylus rides. One of the most common causes for this is a wet celan system that only cleans the top portion of the record groove. You really need a thorough cleaning system to minimze most surface noises. A vacuum system is the best but not always affordable after a table purchse. You can, however, do a good job without a vacuum machine by cleaning the discs in the sink. (http://www.discdoc.com/p14.html) Make a cleaning solution of just two drops of liquid detergent to a cup of warm water - do not over use the detergent or you will have a slushy mess in the groove that is difficult to remove. If you prefer a commercial cleaner, that's fine but the fragrance free detergent will do a good job. Clean the records thoroughly and try them again on the table.


Throw away your antistatic brush, it only transfers dirt from one disc to the next. Go to the store and buy some microfiber towels to use instead. Dampen a towel and wring it out to the point of all but dry and use this when you play records only if you see dirt on the surface of the disc. Most of the dirt the stylus encounters will be too small for most cleaners and the stylus will normally push it aside after you've removed the crud from the bottom of the groove. This should take a reasonable amount of the noise off new discs.


If you're playing old vinyl from second hand shops or discs you have owned for years - and played on the Sony - you might have to live with some noise. The new stylus is doing its job and retrieving information the Sony ignored or only made worse by pushing the crud into the vinyl. Read a bit on disc care and you'll probably save some of your records. There are several threads on this forum about disc cleaning, search the archives of this section. If you have a decent table, you really need to invest in a vacuum cleaning machine.


Call the seller of the table. They should provide some after the sale service. If they can't solve your problem, ask for the name and contact information of the table's distributor.



.
 

New member
Username: Parade

Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-08
Jan,

"Did you connect a grounding cable from the table itself to your pre amp?"

Yes, I did. The hum is only present when a record is playing -- I should have been more clear about that -- it is not present when the table is still or even when it's spinning with the tonearm at rest. It's very faint and in my (very) limited experience doesn't *seem* to be a grounding issue, but I will follow your advice and see what happens!


"2) You'll have to be more specific about what you are hearing. Are you hearing motor noise through your system? Are you hearing motor noise coming only from the motor itself but not through the system. Are you hearing the sound of a bearing that isn't seated correctly? Is this noise coming only from the table proper or is it heard through the speakers? Are you hearing needle chatter from the stylus in the groove? "


This is a more difficult question for me to answer because I'm not very experienced with this sort of thing, but I'll try my best. I can only hear it through speakers when the volume is moderately high, or through headphones when the volume is at a lower level, with the sound becoming more pronounced as the volume goes up. I can't hear it otherwise, it is only when a record is actually playing. It sounds like motor noise, I think -- it is as though I can hear the platter or motor spinning, and there is a more exaggerated noise at a specific time during each rotation. It almost sounds like a "swishing" sound, if that makes any sense. I can't say whether or not it's needle chatter or a bearing as I'm not familiar with what those sound like.


"3) Record noise is something that is not easily solved without knowing why it exists. The most common offender is poor record care.

[...]

Throw away your antistatic brush, it only transfers dirt from one disc to the next. Go to the store and buy some microfiber towels to use instead. Dampen a towel and wring it out to the point of all but dry and use this when you play records only if you see dirt on the surface of the disc."


I've tried playing a few brand-new LPs, 180g, with no real visible dust etc, and the problem is as consistent as it has been with older LPs. I'm hoping to avoid drastic measures such as hand-washing the records in a sink, and a vacuum is outside my budget, so the microfiber towels are a very good suggestion. This problem -- the crackling noise on brand-new records -- is definitely the most annoying of all three problems. I still have a "gut" feeling that there is something about the stylus that just isn't right, but I have no real evidence to suggest that...


Calling the seller of the table would be futile, I'm afraid -- I bought it from Musician's Friend. It was an incredible bargain because of a sale, is why I (somewhat worriedly) decided to go with them -- I figured if a problem came up, I might be able to take the table to a local hifi shop and see if they can help. Do you think this would be a good thing to do if I'm still having the problems after all of your suggestions? Would it matter if it's a Pro-Ject dealer or would any shop with a well-trained vinyl staff be OK?


Thank you so much for taking the time to address my problems, it is sincerely appreciated. Hopefully the new information I've provided might shed some new light on the issue(s)...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12354
Registered: May-04
.

"The hum is only present when a record is playing ... "


This is most often a case of an unshielded cartridge or unshielded motor, most often the former. What brand of cartridge is this? An unshielded cartridge or motor would cause the hum to become slightly more evident towards the inner groove (label end) of a record.


If the noise is consistent throughout the disc side, the next most likely cause would be the table is located too close to a transformer in another piece of equipment, probably your receiver. Temporarily move the table to the opposite side of the receiver or as far away from the transformer end of the receiver as possible and the noise should diminish if not disappear entirely.




"It sounds like motor noise, I think -- it is as though I can hear the platter or motor spinning, and there is a more exaggerated noise at a specific time during each rotation."


The motor is spinning at a much higher speed than the platter. The platter is obviously running at 33 1/3 R.P.M. while the motor is spinning at either 300 or 600 R.P.M. If you switch the platter to 45 R.P.M., the noise will change if it is generated by the platter assembly. If the noise remains the same or almost the same at 45 as at 33, the noise is coming from the motor which is still running at the same speed for either platter speed. You should be able to hear the difference in the frequency of the noise well enough to determine where the noise is coming from. You'll have to tell me which component is causing the noise before I can do much more to help.


The "swishing" sound can either be a bearing that is missing its ball at the end of the shaft or a motor that needs repositioning. This is a budget table and some noise might be expected when listening through headphones which can have a tilted up bass response and can be capable of deeper bass extension than most speakers.


You might be hearing the low frequency noise of a even slightly warped record which causes the woofers in your speakers to flutter in and out at about 8Hz. This noise could also be a problem of where the table is sitting. Move the table to another surface away from the receiver and listen for your noises. You are probably hearing some amount of feedback from your speakers. A budget table with no real suspension requires care in siting to achieve the best results.




"This problem -- the crackling noise on brand-new records -- is definitely the most annoying of all three problems."


That is probably not the noise you would hear from dirt in the groove. You are hearing what is most likely the result of static electricity. It is generated when you pull a vinyl disc from its sleeve and the charge remains on the surface of the disc as you play the record. The lack of humidity in your room during winter months makes this worse than at other times but the problem exists unless you do something to deal with the issue. Dragging a brush filled with dust from a dozen other records across the record surface only attracts the dust from the brush to the statically charged disc which makes matters worse. Toss the brush and use the microfiber towels, turning them frequently and washing thoroughly them between listening sessions.


A Zereostat gun will neutralize the charge and you will spend about $70 on this item from any record seller on line. Unfortunately, cleaning with a good cleaner and a vacuum machine are the most effective ways to deal with static. Try cleaning a few discs with the kitchen sink method described in my earlier link and listen for any improvements. Do not replace the disc in its sleeve after cleaning and take it from the drainer to the table. Use a microfiber towel to do the major cleaning and use another to lightly clean the surface of a disc just before you play a record.


I doubt there is anything wrong with the stylus unless you aren't telling me something. If the stylus were damaged to any extent, there would be quite a bit of distortion. As I said, the stylus is doing its job and simply picking up information you didn't know was there with your Sony.




Taking the table to a dealer who didn't sell you the table is unfair to the dealer unless you are willing to pay for their services. It is difficult enough to find a dealer with a staff who know analog players well enough to diagnose problems and, if you do succeed in finding a dealer who sells tables, they have the right to tell you to return to your seller who made the profit while they lost a sale. As a salesperson I would not wish to deal with a turntable I didn't sell or have access to parts should something happen while the table is in my shop. If, for example, they happened to break the cantilever off the cartridge, you would expect them to replace it at no cost to you. That would be unfair when they were hopefully trying to help out another listener. Make a dealer who didn't sell you this table your last resort.


If you call anyone, I would call the distributor for the Project line of tables. They can help you as much as anyone and they can also give you the name of any dealer in your area who might offer assistance. Most table manufacturers do a rather poor job of actually training their sales people so don't expect a "well trained vinyl staff". Salespeople typically know what they know about analog by experience and not any sort of formal training.



*



Try moving the table away from the receiver or transformers in other equipment.


Determine whether the motor or the platter is the cause of your second noise. If you believe it is the platter, determine whether the bearing shaft should have a lubricated ball bearing at its tip and then whether this bearing and lubricant are in place. You should be able to call the seller and ask basic questions like this.


Clean a few discs and listen for improvements. Running a humidifier in the listening room when you are not using the system will decrease the amount of static charge on the discs. Otherwise, if you cannot afford a $199 Disc Doctor cleaner, buy the ZeroStat.


Call the Project distributor.


.
 

New member
Username: Parade

Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-08
Jan,


Thank you very much for the thoughtful and detailed reply.


After spending a few hours with it I believe the noise problems/swishing were caused by a poor ground. I can't say for certain as I was adjusting multiple things at once and therefor not isolating the variables (it may have had to do with the placement of the table), but it's a moot point now because it's no longer a problem! I'll keep an ear on it in case it comes back, but I'm fairly certain that there is no mechanical problem at this point.


Thank you for clearing up why it couldn't be a problem with the stylus, too.


So it would seem that the problem I have, now, is static. You touched on a very interesting point which is the humidity in the room. I actually have a *dehumidifier* in here due to poor insulation in my walls and a large amount of books that are easily moisture-damaged. This might be a tricky thing to solve.


As for the other anti-static advice you have offered, I am going to follow your advice, and take it one step at a time. For now I've ordered microfiber and will see how cleaning with that goes. If there is still an unacceptable amount of static, maybe I will have to consider downgrading back to a table/stylus that is less sensitive, has lower audio quality, is more harmful to my records, but is free of extremely audible static/crackling. That would be an unideal solution... hopefully it doesn't come to that. But washing every single record is unideal as well.

I called Musician's Friend and was directed to Sumiko, Pro-Ject's distributor. If any of the the problems that sound more hardware-oriented come back, I will call them and ask about a local dealer. I of course would expect to pay for their time.

Thank you again for all of your help.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12359
Registered: May-04
.

Cleaning records is a time consuming task akin to trimming all the nose hairs of all the residents in your apartment building. Fortunately, cleaning records has a better pay off. Take it a few at a time starting with your favorites and working to the ones you forgot you owned.


Otherwise, good luck and let us know how things turn out.


.
 

New member
Username: Baldevis

Chicago, Illinois USA

Post Number: 1
Registered: Aug-08
Hi......apropos to the problem discussed here, I came across this thread while researching the problem on Google. I too have the "hum" problem with a new Debut III, and the reason I'm considering it to be a case of vibration from the motor is that besides the fact that it only occurs when the stylus is in contact with a spinning LP, it becomes noticeably louder when the dust cover is down. As there is nothing electrical about the dust cover (aside from the possibility of a bit of static charge), I would contend that it's acoustic noise emanating from the motor, and is being concentrated and/or reflected back to the LP and cartridge when the cover is down, with perhaps even some resonating of the plastic cover itself added in. The transit screws are most definitely removed. This would seem to be an inherent problem with the Debut III. I'm not sure what I'll do about it. The level of the hum drops down to just about acceptable with the cover open.....but this should not be necessary. And even so, if there's that much noise from the drive system it's bound to be compromising the sound quality even if it's not being concentrated or reflected back by the dust cover

I too can also hear what strikes me as bearing noise from the rotation of the platter. I carefully listened to an LP that I knew to have an absolutely whisper-quiet surface, and that's when they became apparent. I took note of which point in the music they occurred, then lifted the needle and played that passage again, and the noise did not occur at that exact same spot in the music, suggesting to me that it didn't come from surface noise or warps on the record.

Ugh....very disappointing. I may have to look for a different table, and I'm now a little gun-shy of belt-driven tables after this. I know, it's not a top-of-the-line belt drive table, but I still expected a bit better than this. As an added nasty surprise, it also thumps like crazy from any kind of movement on the floor near the desk it's standing on, so it apparently requires some kind of isolation platform or something.....which is making the whole thing way too pricey now for my budget.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12891
Registered: May-04
.

How much can you spend on isloation?
 

New member
Username: Baldevis

Chicago, Illinois USA

Post Number: 2
Registered: Aug-08
I really didn't budget for that at all. I've spent more than I like on the new turntable, plus my cartridge of choice (an old Shure V15 Type IV), plus a new Jico SAS stylus for the Shure cartridge, plus the 75 gram counterweight necessary to accommodate the heavier Shure cartridge. I must say that the combination of the Shure cartridge, Jico stylus, and proper counterweight makes very nice, vivid, detailed music, and it seems to track very nicely. But the noise level is more than acceptable. I'm considering, as a super-cheap isolation attempt, just planting four 5-pound lead ingots with rubber padding on their tops and bottoms onto the desk, placing a dense cutting board on top of those, and placing the turntable on top of that. Not ideal, I know, but I'm not all that keen on continuing to sink money into a setup that I may wind up abandoning for something else later on.
 

Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3140
Registered: Sep-04
Robert,

Your problem sounds like feedback to me. the Shure cartridge isn't particularly appropriate to the arm either IIRC. The fact that lowering the lid induces more hum just tells me feedback all the way. This'll be due to any combination of factors such as an unhappy match of cartridge to tonearm causing a low resonant frequency which will pick up hum. The tonearm/cartridge combination should have a resonant frequency ideally around 9 - 11 hz with the workable range being 8 - 15hz. I've done some calculations and your combination appears to be down at 7hz.

If anyone is interested, the calculations are as follows:

F (Hz) = 159/sqrt [Compliance X (Arm mass + Cart Mass)]

According to http://www.cartridgedb.com/ the Compliance of a V15IV is 32 (x10-6 but ignore this in your calculation), the cartridge mass is 6.4gm and the arm's effective mass is 9.5gm. The arm mass is the only one which I'm not sure about since they only had a Debut on there, but modern arms are generally heavier than this which would worsen the situation.

The site above is a brilliant resource which also has simple tables on a per tonearm basis. Click on the tonearm's effective mass and you'll get a table of cartridge mass vs compliance which shows what I'm on about.

Perversely, the lighter original cartridge may be a better match to the arm and therefore MAY offer less feedback, if less quality!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12896
Registered: May-04
.

Obviously feedback is one of your problems. You must dedicate some time and effort to the location of the table when dealing with a non-suspended subchassis design such as you own.


First, take the dust cover off. You don't need it for playing records and it only acts as a collector for more noise when playing discs. Use it to keep the table clean and away from prying fingers and paws when the table is not in use. This has been the simplest turntable tweak for the last forty years.


The lead works OK but can easily be surpassed by other inexpensive materials. Go to the home supply store and buy four or five rubber "Quick Caps" from the plumbing department. Then stop by a sporting goods shop and get a package of squash/raquetballs. Put the caps on the supporting shelf and the balls between the table and the caps. This will provide a good suspension for cheap dolars.


From what you have described, your problem is purely mechanical and not electrical. These two steps should go along way to solving the problem. I can't diagnose beyond what you've said so far, so do this and then report back. I suspect you haven't done your share of working with the table to try to solve the issues. If the dealer didn't make it clear you needed to work with a non-suspended table, you should take this up with the dealer or find a new dealer. If this is a local dealer, then you have a gripe of sorts as qualifying the customer's needs and set up are a basic part of a good salesperson's job. If you bought this table on line, well, there's part of the problem.


What I've provided is a basic suspension for the table. There are lots of ways to go about solving your problems, the most effective beyond installing a suspension is to place the table on a wall mouned shelf.


If you haven't yet read the posts above your entry, do so. Try what I've suggested here and let us know what happens.



.
 

New member
Username: Baldevis

Chicago, Illinois USA

Post Number: 3
Registered: Aug-08
Thanks to all of you. It's always good to get some informed opinions. I had read all the above posts before I posted here. While I did get the table from a local shop, it's more of a record shop than an audio dealer, so I doubt they'll be much help. Here in Chicago, Illinois, USA, we do have some more audiophile-oriented businesses, and I may have to stick to those in future. I've collected hundreds of recordings in various formats for about 40 years. These days, I'm not what you'd call a true analog enthusiast, and all of this has just reminded me again of why I'm not. What I really was after was as good a system for transcribing LPs as possible within my means, and while it may seem cynical to say so, I'm feeling as though my biggest handicap just might be not being rich enough to go straight for the best of the best. Doing it on a budget seems to involve lots of research, and strategy, and problem-solving, and tweaking, and consulting, and more tweaking, and re-researching, etc. etc. etc., and I really don't enjoy all that as much as some people do. All I really wanted to do was transcribe LPs......but the rub is that I wanted to do a quality job of it, and the fact that I now seem to have blindly stepped into a huge pile of crap here has put an immediate stop to that. I may opt to just chalk it up to experience, take the Debut III to a good local audio place I've dealt with successfully before, have them help me find a more suitable replacement, and do a trade-in. And Frank, the cartridge calculations and database site could prove very helpful for that, so thanks for the info. This Debut III just seems to have too much troublesome "baggage" attached to it.

The old direct-drive Technics SL-7 with an upgraded Shure P-mount cartridge that I used for years for transcription seemed to do the job nicely, but I started this quest to replace it when it seemed to be generating a number of low-frequency thumps, the source of which I wasn't sure of. I thought it might be that the servo system for the linear-tracking tone arm is wearing out or needing lubrication, or that the tone arm isn't dealing with record warps as well as it used to, also because of issues of wear or lubrication. But what it did seem to offer was absolutely no motor noise or feedback at all and outstanding isolation without any extraneous help. I'm therefore beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just look into refurbishing that after all. I'm not even sure if that's possible, in this day and age.

I'll follow-up on this and report what happens, if anybody's still interested and I haven't ticked them off irrevocably with my petulant rantings here.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12901
Registered: May-04
.

"Doing it on a budget seems to involve lots of research, and strategy, and problem-solving, and tweaking, and consulting, and more tweaking, and re-researching, etc. etc. etc., and I really don't enjoy all that as much as some people do."

Yeah, sure it does. You're doing the work you would otherwise pay for in a more expensive design. Try the suspension tweak, take off the dustcover and talk to your local retailer. As far as transcription is concerned, your problem appears to be mostly associated with acoustic and mechanical feedback. Transcribing at low volumes will produce better results if the speakers are not providing the source of feedback.


.
 

New member
Username: Baldevis

Chicago, Illinois USA

Post Number: 4
Registered: Aug-08
I never, ever use speakers when transcribing or processing audio. Only as a final step do I test burn them to re-recordable discs and see if they sound well balanced and pleasing through my speakers, but when processing and/or EQ-ing I find that good headphones reveal much more than I could ever hear through my speakers. Considering, of course, that I don't actually have world-class speakers and an acoustically ideal listening room, I have to rely on my headphones for critical evaluation. But bottom line is, there are NEVER speakers playing at the same time that an LP is playing in my setup. That may seem like a sacrilege to real analog audio enthusiasts, but as I say, my purpose is not so much to listen to LPs as to achieve the best possible digital transcription of them.

I've really found the suggestions here very enlightening and helpful. Realizing that I never actually gave it a proper try, I re-installed the Ortofon cartridge that came with the table, carefully realigned it with a protractor, put the original lighter counterweight back on, and precisely set the tracking force with a force guage. And guess what? It is indeed less noisy. When I lower the dust cover during play it still sounds a bit suspect, so it's absolutely true that the cover must stay open during play. But damn, the combination of that Shure cartridge that I wanted to use and the Project tone arm really is a dog. It just hums like crazy during the music (maybe it doesn't know the words......HAH!!!). Sorry about that. It might be that I could live with the results from the Ortofon for a while.......or find a suitable upgrade with similar characteristics as the Ortofon. I'm still working on the suspension problem, and I've dropped a bit of light oil into the platter bearing and been letting it spin overnight in the hope that it might run smoother after being broken in for a while. In the end it might do......at least for a while. But I'd really hoped for a more immediately gratifying solution with less fuss than this. I may try again when my funds are repleneshed and I feel up to it again......fool that I am.

Once again guys, I appreciate your attention to my complaints. I hope I can come back for more when necessary.
 

New member
Username: Shady02

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-09
I also have Project Debut III and have noticed a noise during playback. Sounds similar to what was mentioned above but not exactly. The noise usually starts about half way through an album side and happens on all the albums I play. It is only noticeable on softer passages or the quiet spots between songs. It is not a constant sound but is heard with each rotation of the platter. It is hard to describe the sound, it sounds almost like rubbing your finger on the needle but not nearly that loud. It is not a pleasant sound and it sounds like it is actually damaging the record. If I lift the needle off the record and then place it back down the sound does not start up again immediately but does return. Any ideas?
 

New member
Username: Jared57

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-10
I had a similar issue and found a fix.

My Debut III had an annoying hum that only occurred when the stylus was on the record with the motor on. It was not a grounding issue of problem with cables/amp. I did a little test and placed my vinyl brush on the plinth and laid the needle on it. Motor off, no noise. Motor on, the exact same hum reappeared. The noise was mechanical and resonating from the motor through the plinth, bearing, platter, record and finally into the stylus. I removed the platter and with the motor turned on, pressed gently on the two spots where I removed the screws. With the stylus still on the vinyl brush, the noise disappeared.

So, I just put back in the two screws that the manual told me to remove, thus locking the floating motor back into place. Problem fixed, no hum at all.

Seems that the motor suspension system (rubber bands) is not properly dampened. Like a suspension in a car, you have springs to absorb the bumps, and you have shocks or dampers to absorb the resonance in the springs. Without dampers, your car would bounce forever after rolling over a bump. Seems like the Debut III has the same issue. Not sure if this is an engineering oversight? Or maybe the supplier of the rubber band changed somewhere along the production process? At any rate, it can be fixed in about 2min.

Best of luck!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14499
Registered: Dec-04
Welcome Jared. Great first post!
 

New member
Username: Lamoney

Brooklyn, New York United States

Post Number: 1
Registered: Aug-12
I recently was given a Debut III as a gift (great choice!) and after setting it up also found I was getting a problem similar to what was described above; a noise that came consistently in the same point in the rotation, when the motor was on, which was louder with the dust cover down. It was a bassy, deep hum that wasn't easy to pick up when music was playing but was very noticeable when the sound was very quiet and between tracks.

After a bit of experimentation - and some embarrassment - I realized that I had the platter on upside down! A portion of the platter was rubbing against the top of the motor. The platter should be positioned so that the sides are "pointing" down rather than up - for some reason I had thought they should point up to go around the edge of the vinyl. There's actually no diagram of this in the manual that shows the direction. Anyway, this fixed the problem straight away. Potentially you all have different (less obvious) issues but I thought I'd post this anyway in case anyone else had made the same mistake!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14788
Registered: Dec-03
yup, in the entry level Pro-Ject tables, the motor is known for being rather noisy. vinylengine has a multitude of threads about this. Thankfully my Genie III is quiet, but mine has a completely isolated motor unit from the plinth.
 

New member
Username: Live_steam_mad

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-13
Hi Robert, I also have a Technics SL-7 that I bought second hand a few years ago that works great but I also have the same bump-bump-bump bass noise problem (seems to occur as one bump per revolution of the platter?). Did you ever figure this out and how to solve the issue?

Otherwise I also don't like the distortion towards the end of LP records on this SL-7 (something I don't remember getting on a Technics SL-20 belt driven table with a Sure brand cartridge).

Anyone got any suggestions on what is causing either issue?

Or can anyone recommend me a fairly affordable (like under 100 GBP) record player for LP's that has "distortion free" sound with no bumps in the bass?

Cheers,

Alistair G.

(Robert Scharba) >The old direct-drive Technics SL-7 with an upgraded Shure P-mount cartridge that I used for years for transcription seemed to do the job nicely, but I started this quest to replace it when it seemed to be generating a number of low-frequency thumps, the source of which I wasn't sure of. I thought it might be that the servo system for the linear-tracking tone arm is wearing out or needing lubrication, or that the tone arm isn't dealing with record warps as well as it used to, also because of issues of wear or lubrication. But what it did seem to offer was absolutely no motor noise or feedback at all and outstanding isolation without any extraneous help. I'm therefore beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just look into refurbishing that after all. I'm not even sure if that's possible, in this day and age.
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