NAD..A good match for B&W 683's?
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New member Username: RadiskullSan Diego, CA U.S.A Post Number: 3 Registered: Nov-07 | I'm very new to the Hi-Fi world, and I'm currently shopping around for an entry level system, I'm on a budget. I need a CD player, Amp and Pre Amp combo, and a pair of speakers. I've looked at the B&W 683 and the NAD C162 C272. Are these good combo's for the speakers? or should I get some thing from Rotel for the 683's. I listen to a lot of Heavy Metal and Classic Rock. I like good clean high's(Not artifical though) and clean punchy bass. Also if some one can recommend a CD player for under $800 would highly appreciate it. Whatcha think, good choice??? Still in the market shopping, San Diego area. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 790 Registered: Jun-07 | Hey Rogman, welcome to the forum. Rotel has the clean highs you are looking for, but the NAD has the punchy bass. Both are good. Both sound totally different. The more popular combination would be the B&W/Rotel combo. For a cd player under 800, I would go with the Rotel 1072 I think it is, or the NAD C542. Depending of course which you choose for the pre/pro brand. Or for 200 dollars more you can get the highly regarded Rega Apollo. I would audition the NAD and Rotel on some B&W speakers and hear which one you like best. Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2300 Registered: May-05 | Rogman, Have you heard the NAD/B&W combo you mentioned? If so, what were your thoughts? What did or didn't you like about it? What do you have now? What does it do right and wrong? I haven't heard the new B&Ws, so I have no opinion on them. I didn't care much for the old 600 series (if that's what they replaced). Bass seemed boomy, and the cabinets made too much noise for my ears. But that's just my opinion. There's a few people here that'll agree and disagree. If B&W fixed these issues, they could be a great speaker. What other systems have you heard? For the overall price of the system you mentioned, there's a lot of great gear out there. As always, Naim and Rega come to mind first. I'm starting to sound like a broken record here. What else do you have available for you to hear? The best advice is to hear everything you reasonably can - a few dollars above and below your budget as well. Compare what you're hearing to live music. Don't think of what a stereo should sound like, think of what the music performed live should sound like. Just a few thoughts to get the ball rolling and confuse you more (in a good way). |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 887 Registered: May-06 | I have a Rotel CD player, much older version, Nuck is familiar with Rotel, he may chime in at some point. I have auditioned both Rotel and NAD, I heard B&W speakers with Calsse, Rotel, and McIntosh. Someone on Craigslist is selling a McIntosh MA-4100 used (older) integrated amp in the Dallas area for about $450. I would hands down take that with the B&Ws over a new Rotel or new NAD, but I also am fairly passionate about the MAC sound. If you want new my bias would be the Rotel based upon your aforementioned listening preferences. Then again if you shop the used market you could probably have the cash for a Rega Apollo CD player. Listen to one if at all possible. It very well could provide you with a priority adjustment. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5683 Registered: Feb-05 | Rotel and B&W, excellent match. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2554 Registered: Sep-04 | Rogman, Beware having too good a pair of speakers combined with lower end electronics. Better to build the system the other way around, since a good signal can only be made worse down the line, but a broken signal can only be shown for what it is further down the line. I've never tried the 162/272 combination with the 683s. The reason for this is that we don't stock that combination on the basis that there are other brands which do better things. The 683s are pretty good, a bit big in the bass for my taste, but very clean treble and lovely midrange courtesy of that FST midrange driver. Another speaker which is in direct competition at the price range is Focal's 700V range. Their 705V, 706V, 714V and 716V all have counterparts in the B&W68x range at almost precisely the same price points. Focal's presentation is leaner than the B&Ws' but it too has a wonderfully clean extended treble - a very different take on the same principle since it makes the Focals sound quick and lithe by comparison. Then there are other brands too... Both the B&Ws and the Focals are very easy to drive so you do not need oodles of power. 50wpc is more than enough for an average to large room. So instead of having to buy a powerhouse, you just need quality. You may wish to swap round your budget a little and spend a bit more on the CD player and less on the amp. Rega make the excellent little Apollo and the Mira amplifier which would make an excellent combination with the B&Ws or Focals. The Rega's drier presentation would offset the B&Ws whereas its handling of pace and rhythm would come through with the Focals. I think Naim Audio may be beyond the budgetary constraints here, but if you could extend to ther NAim integrated (the Nait5i) it's also a great little amplifier. The Apollo and Naim are a well recognised combination, just add speakers to match. Of course, if you are considering this system for a truly large room (say more than 22ft x 15ft), then a little more power wouldn't go amiss, in which case you may have no choice but to go with the more powerful options. To re4main at the same price level you'll have to go to things like Rotel and NAD. The Rotel amplifiers are very clean and open sounding. The NAD's major on a more fluid rhythmic presentation. Rotel and B&W go very much hand in hand as they are closely related companies, so this is why it's quite a synergistic match. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: GkumarFramingham, MA USA Post Number: 23 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi Rogman, I own B&W 683 and Rotel 1057 A/V Receiver for 4 months now. Trust me, you would not go wrong with this comibination. I have Pioneer Elite DVD-Player i bought for $300 bugs that I am using it as a CD-Player. Even with that the sound is pretty good. I am saving up money to buy Apollo rega. Because, i have listened to this combo. B&W 683 rotel 1057 Apollo Rega CD-Player. At this price point, i can bet that this combo is unbeatable. ( If you are looking at music quality ). I don't want to push you to a conclusion. What you can do is buy the B&W 683's from your local dealer and Loan a Rotel 1057 from you dealer for a couple of days and Listen to this combo. The other option get the Outlaw 990 and the matching Power Amp online which you can return after listening if you dont like them.( something i did not try). I have seen good reviews about Outlaw. This way you can make your judgement after listening to both Rotel and outlaw. Having said that, I am totally happy with my B&W and Rotel combination. My next upgrade if i ever do would be to B&W 805's and 803's after that paired up with Mac's. Thats how good 683's are. Have fun listening. -cheers Ganesh |
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New member Username: RadiskullSan Diego, CA U.S.A Post Number: 4 Registered: Nov-07 | WOW, You guys are great! I'm amazed at how fast and how helpful your responses are, Thanks. At the moment I do not own any gear, but an iPod  I really like the B&W 683's because they sound real clean, look great, and got some real solid reviews. I heard them powered by a NAD receiver I guess, the reason I was looking at NAD because they seem to be more reasonably priced, or rather in my price range, I plan to build a system in stages not all at once, around $2000-$2500 (for an AMP, PRE & SPEAKERS) I'll buy a good CD player later, I have read a lot of great things about the Rega CD players, but can't really afford one right now. I have no problem buys demo models of any thing except the speakers. I think a 50 to 80 watt amp would be just fine for me, I really don't want to dig way too much as I'll just get more confused about things, takes the heart out of buying. So if you guys can recommend any thing with that price range shoot me a message. |
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Bronze Member Username: BetamaxCanada Post Number: 23 Registered: May-07 | If you've heard B&W and NAD and like them together, then buy that. I'm running the C272/162 combo and NAD 542 CDP with B&W 602's and everything sounds very good together. I'll upgrade the speakers to something higher up the B&W line in time, but I'm happy with the sound as it is now. I found Rotel highs to be a bit bright/forward and preferred NAD, so that's what I bought, but it's a matter of personal preference; you can't go wrong with either. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1744 Registered: Nov-05 | I had the same as Frank S and can vouch for what he says. For the money, that setup was hard to beat. |
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New member Username: _ad_France Post Number: 1 Registered: Sep-06 | Hello - I've been lurking here for a while, enjoying the quality of the information provided as well as the friendly atmosphere. I own that precise combo: I fell in love with it (and the price) at the shop. My source is a Jolida Music Van III (a Chinese tube CD player), and I must say I've got the sound and the details. I'm wowing every CD I play (well, the properly recorded ones), and I run back home after work so I can play some more music (I listen to rock, from Hendrix to Tool, 65%, 30% classical music, and the rest is jazz mostly). All I'm saying (bear in mind I'm rather new to hifi and will in no way pose as an expert) is this combo is worth listening to when one has a budget in your price-range. I liked the B&W 683s on C162/C272 better than Quads, Kefs, Jean-Marie Reynauds and Dynaudios. I hope that helps, now you know there's at least one guy on this planet who's got the combo and, well, he loves it all along! Good luck in your quest, Ad. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2314 Registered: May-05 | Adrien, welcome to our insanity. Rogman, If you liked what the NAD receiver and B&Ws did, then that's the way to go. No sense on making things more complicated than they need to be. While the C162/272 combo sounds very good and is NAD's the top of the line (before the Master Series), you may also want to consider either the 372 or 352 integrated amps. The 352 is a very good integrated (probably the best thing NAD makes IMO). And it'll save you some money to get a better CD player if you'd like, or buy some more music and beer. Rotel and B&W will sound a bit different. Rotel will sound more forward and bright, whereas NAD will sound warmer and laid back. They are different than each other, and its all a matter of taste. Niether one is really better than the other. If you have a Rega dealer nearby, you should make it a point to hear a Rega system. The Rega Brio 3 or Mira 3/Apollo/R3 is too good of a system to not hear IMO. The Brio3/Apollo/R3 system should probably fall within your budget. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 810 Registered: Jun-07 | I agree with Stu- to my ears the 352 actually sounds better than the 372? should it? no. Does it? yup. Using a seperate C272 and my T763 as a pre smoked the 372. But the 352 is very nice. Hey..I dont get it either, but i tested it in my own system. So I would say if you go NAD, stick to the pre/pro or the 352 integrated. And yes, for your own good, listen to the Rega system Stu listed. Very nice stuff. |
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New member Username: RadiskullSan Diego, CA U.S.A Post Number: 5 Registered: Nov-07 | All points and advice noted down. I managed to go to a dealer today and listen to the system for a while. I have 2 authorized dealers near me , both carry B&W's but one carries Rotel the other NAD. I checked out the B&W with the Rotel's today and a Naim CD player. I listened to the RB-1070 Power amp and the RC-1070 Pre amp and it did not sound like a $2500 system it sounded rather weak and lacking a punchy sound, the bass was really boomy and all over the place rather then a punchy tight sound. I then used the same pre-amp with the RB-1080 200Wpc and it sounded much better, tighter bass a little more powerful and I liked it. So tomorrow I am going to check out the same Speakers with the NAD's, and see what all that is about. I do have a question, it is advisable to get demo units with full warranty of the floor. What should I look out for when getting Demo units. I was offered the B&W's for $1350 Demo RB-1080 for $900 Demo A new RC-1070 for $470 Thanks again. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 811 Registered: Jun-07 | Rogman, a good read. Can't wait to hear about today's adventure. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9321 Registered: Dec-04 | Rogman, Ilike demo's on nearly everything. The speakers are best if they have a couple hundred hours on them, and ideally run in properly. Ask the dealer the right way, and you will get the hours on them. It is usually 'oh they are brand new'5 hrs or something, to keep the price up(for whatever reason), while having 200 hrs on them shows how they will run after time at home. If you say that you hope they have 200 on them, ignoring price, you will likely get a better answer. In the store, they are likely to see a lot of hours in a hurry, which is ideal. As for the bass of the B&W's speaker placement in a room full of speakers is not great, usually, and comparing in another room is tough. Demo's are great for taking home to try, leaving a cc# behind, of course. I love the Rotel 200w and 683 idea, myself. Add a not so expensive 1072 cdp, and you have my vote. Then again, I favor different things then the next guy... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2563 Registered: Sep-04 | From my point of view, 200 hours on a pair of speakers is not an issue. The price should only really fall if they're old (i.e. over a year old). Anything under a year old is just running in as far as I'm concerned. Speakers are robust items and the more running in they've had, the better more often than not. Look for dents (obviously) on the cabinet. Don't just look, run your hand up and down the cabinets. There could be a dent which is hidden by the light. Look closely at the corners. If there's a crease in the vinyl, it's probably a knock. If it's deformed, walk away. Look at the drive units closely. If there is any sort of 'aftermarket' mark on any of them, have it replaced as part of the bargain or walk away. (Obviously if the dealer mentions they're marked but ok and has already lowered the price because of this that's a different issue). On the main drive units, spread your hand and place the tips of your fingers on the cone part of the unit. Push in lightly. It should have no friction, no grating, no rubbing. If there's friction, it'll be a damaged unit and you walk away (or negotiate for a new unit). I'm being very picky here. This is what I'd do if buying somethign which isn't new. Fact is, if your dealer offers you a full warranty, he's probably made these checks already, but you never know. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: RadiskullSan Diego, CA U.S.A Post Number: 6 Registered: Nov-07 | Hello there! So I went and checked out the NAD C162 & C272 with a pair of Paradigm studio 60"s and a pair of B&W 683s. I really liked the sound of the NAD and B&W match. To me it was the sound I was looking for, tight punchy bass and powerful with good clean highs. So this is what I'm going to buy tomorrow. The amp and pre-amp are demo units the speakers are going to be ordered from B&W because my wife wants them in Black  But I got the pre amp for $444 the power amp for $527 and new speakers for $1400 sounds like a good deal to me. Every thing comes with full factory warranty. Thank you so very much for all your help, you guys were great and this is an awesome forum. Thank you. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1747 Registered: Nov-05 | Congrats Rogman, good deal and I'm sure you'll the love the NAD/B&W setup. I know I did. Ask the dealer, if the C272 you're buying has had the caps upgrade. It should have if not too old. Mine was 2 yrs old and needed the upgrade, though I had no problems in all that time. http://nadelectronics.com/articles/Ventilation-Notice |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 817 Registered: Jun-07 | Great deal Rogman. Very good prices. What gives EH Nuck? These American prices kill me. lol. Anyway, enjoy the music Rogman. Have fun. Save your pennies and buy a matching CDP or an Apollo next. Welcome to this great hobby. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 899 Registered: May-06 | Going out and listening with your own ears is the best thing you could do Rogman. Anything short of doing as Nuck suggested and you may never really know. IMO it would be worth the time and effort to see if you can borrow the B&W / Rotel set-up for a Saturday night / Sunday demo at home. Putting up your CC would go a long way toward gaining dealer acceptance. Then the next weekend do the same with the NAD / B&W set-up. You may be surprised as to how different these products sound in your room. It eliminates the variables and gives you exactly what you will get if you just buy the system outright. Buying one system without hearing the other system in your room cheats you out of really knowing you absolutely got the best of what you wanted. I understand you want black speakers but they won't sound any different (once burned in) than any other finish. If not, well then, congrats on your well thought out system. You will not be disappointed. |
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Bronze Member Username: GkumarFramingham, MA USA Post Number: 24 Registered: Aug-07 | you should get a 10-15% discount on B&W and rotel products. Most of the dealers give you the discount. Shop around with your other local dealers. I got my speakers for 1190 after discount (B&W 683 ) brand new. cheers ganesh |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2567 Registered: Sep-04 | The 683s cost the equivalent of $1800 in the UK and there's very little movement on that by dealers, so $1400 seems a rather sweet deal to me, and $1190 sounds like a dealer going out of business. But black? My goodness, nobody buys big speakers like that in black. I hope she likes them! |
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Bronze Member Username: GkumarFramingham, MA USA Post Number: 25 Registered: Aug-07 | Everything is expensive in UK compared to US( If you compare in Dollars) . US the prices are very ecomical. Starting from cars, electronics, Hifi Audio...everything. They have been in business for 30 years. And they carry some impressive brands. And, they have a 3 year trade up policy as well. Things are a little different here than in UK. cheers, ganesh |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9372 Registered: Dec-04 | Same here Ganesh.A lot more money for everything. Except what I get, LOL! Being the biggest consumers in the world get ya a few breaks it seems. |
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Silver Member Username: ChicomoralessxmDutch islesCaribbean Post Number: 205 Registered: Feb-07 | If you think the Uk is expensive you should take a trip to the caribbean. Imagine living on an island with no impport duties and yet its still cheaper buy stuff in the US pay for shipping twice, and still save!!! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9376 Registered: Dec-04 | Yikes! But Chico, you didn't get 14" of snow yesterday. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York/Cal... USA Post Number: 746 Registered: Mar-04 | Nuck, too funny. We got 8" and I'm not liking it. 14" is worse. Nice to have a TT hooked up again, even if it's just to rip music to my hard drive to burn to cd. The TT is old and nothing special but it's great to be able to pull out some of the vinyl that's been sitting on shelves for a looong time, some of it over 30 years old and unopened. Who knows, somewhere down the road I may look for something better to incorporate into the home system. Breakfast in America - Supertramp Neil Young - Trans Greatful Dead - Wake of the Flood Al Green - I'm Still in Love With You |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York/Cal... USA Post Number: 747 Registered: Mar-04 | Sorry 'bout that. I thought I was posting in the "Music selections..." thread. Where's my coffee????? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9381 Registered: Dec-04 | hehehe...post wherever you like, Sem. We will find it.Even if y'all cannot. |
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Bronze Member Username: GkumarFramingham, MA USA Post Number: 26 Registered: Aug-07 | 14" of snow should be blessing from mother nature. Nuck, which place are you from ? I am doing a cross country trip during chritmas and new year, I will make sure i will stop by and do a ski day. |
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