Got B&W Speakers. Help with amplification please.
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Bronze Member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 53 Registered: May-05 | Hello guys, I just bought a pair of B&W 803D's. My budget is $4000.00 tops (Pre+Amp+Source). I would like to step up from my current NAD gear. Can you guys please make suggestions? I have a dedicated room 20' X 14' X 10' (Carpet floor) I will use this set up mainly for classical music. Thanks a lot in advance. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11751 Registered: May-04 | . What kind of source? LP? CD? What electronics did you hear on the B&W's that made them sound good enough to buy? Do you want new? Used? Shopping only in DFW? . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9231 Registered: Dec-04 | Classe. |
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Bronze Member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 54 Registered: May-05 | Thanks for your replies. They were driven by Classe but I auditioned them before with McInstosh and sounded wonderful, problem is money. Source CD Prefer to buy new but will consider used (Local or Internet)if I could find a good deal on rather new equipment (1-2 years (old) Thanks again! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9236 Registered: Dec-04 | Bunny, abou the worst thing I can imagine doing right now is underpowering those B&W's. Did you hear the Classe setup or just the Mac? Neither is gonna come cheaply... |
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Bronze Member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 55 Registered: May-05 | Nuck, I have heard them with Classe and McIntosh; both sounded very very good. You are right is not going to be cheap. I really loved the Mac's but I would need close to 10k (New) so, I was wondering if something like Simaudio could do the trick ? The problem is that I have never listen to anything they make. I am already shopping on Audiogon for used Classe or Mac; I was just womdering if you guys could recommend other electronics that could drive the 803D's as well. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11756 Registered: May-04 | . Yeah, we can. We can recommend the stuff we like. Is that important to you? We don't have a clue what you like other than expensive amplifiers. You have us at a disadvantage. I own Mac. Nuck owns Classe. Neither of us like stuff that's cheaper than what we own or else we would have bought that instead. I'm really trying to decide why you bought expensive speakers and then want an less expensive amplifier to drive them. I know I'm sounding rude here but this is not making sense to me. You're asking us which luxury car to buy, which five star restaurant to eat at and which 18 year old Scotch to drink. Then you're asking us what is equivalent but lots cheaper. And we don't even know if you want a coupe or sedan, whether you like Italian or Mexican or if you like blended or single malt. You get what I'm saying? . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9237 Registered: Dec-04 | Bugs, you have a few posts here, so maybe you know whats coming, if you have read our posts before, and JV's last one. You have in your posession one of the most difficult speakers to drive. Buyers usually have systems and rooms set-up, and work towards those speakers. Mono amps are quite often already involved. Is it possible that you loved the speakers because of the electrics further up the line? And in the room where you heard them? I am not the one to suggest anything less than the brands that have been bantied about, but it's just 2 of us so far. Those speakers are a bear to drive properly, and performance returns drop sharply with diminishing quality and power. With that in mind, the B&W group own Rotel(for speakers up to the top 6xx series) and Classe (7 and up). If you are determined to keep these speakers(are you?), the best that I can rec is Rotel amps in mono bridge. Rotel has a 500w switching amp, but I have not used one. For classical music, I would trade the speakers for something more responsive, and back off on the money requirements.But thats just me. |
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Bronze Member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 56 Registered: May-05 | Nuck, Thanks for the input, I will see what I can do. The same store that I bought the speakers from carry Rotel. If Rotel does not cut it I am leaning towards Used McIntosh Jan, I was just looking for suggestions nothing more.I know you are not an easy person to deal with but I thank you anyway for the time taken to reply. I see nothing wrong in asking if there are any other options, it would be nice to save some money! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 1498 Registered: Oct-04 | Have you listened to the NAD Master Series? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2254 Registered: May-05 | Here's a whole system built for you, minus the speakers. Not sure of the specs of the amps, look them up. I just stumbled across it in boredom. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 1499 Registered: Oct-04 | Nice find. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11761 Registered: May-04 | . I find myself to be a very easy person to deal with! The few disagreements I have with myself are usually short and I always win. How much easier to get along with could you ask for? The point is you've chosen a speaker that is rather difficult to drive and can be quite revealing of what's in front of it in the system. I can only assume you chose these speakers because you liked what you heard. I also know who carries B&W and McIntosh in Dallas. Try getting those guys to hook up another amplifier for audition! You might as well negotiate with the North Koreans! Nonetheless! If you don't have the correct amplifier in front of these speakers, you'll know what amp you chose. They sound best when driven by high quality electronics - which have high price tags. Did the salesperson who sold you the speakers ask what you were going to drive these with? Did he make any suggestions? What are you driving them with? The NAD? Whaddaya think? We've got to know what you're hearing before we can proceed to get you better sound. Your question is too broad for one thing. From what I understand about the biggest Denon receiver, it will drive these speakers. I'm not sure I would want to hear the results. But, technically, it has the current to drive this sort of load. You can buy less than Mac or Classe for these speakers; but you've sort of put yourself in a position where asking after you've purchased the speakers isn't the best move you could have made. Sort of like applying for the gasoline credit card after you've driven the Hummer off the lot. I take it you believe the amplifier is not that important in terms of sound quality. If that's the case, just buy a very high current amplifier capable of driving low impedance loads at fairly high volumes. If you think the best system is one that balances all components, then I'd say go back to the dealer and ask them for a recommendation. Then start shopping with the idea whatever the salesperson suggests has to drive the B&W's. See what responses you get. Then come on back. We'd be interested to hear the suggestions also. Sorry if that sounds rude. . |
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Bronze Member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 57 Registered: May-05 | Stu, Thanks a lot. Looks like a great opportunity! Chris, Thank you for the Master Series Suggestion Regards |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11762 Registered: May-04 | . Am I right? This is the speaker you purchased? http://www.hometheaterstore.com/B_W_803D_3_Way_Vented_Box_System_p/803d.htm Did anyone mention the 3 Ohm minimum impedance before you bought the speakers? I'm not suggesting you bought the wrong speaker. You just bought eight grand worth of speaker that's isn't likely to sound that great even with four grand worth of electronics in front of it. IMO, this speaker should have at least $2,500 worth of CD player to begin the system. . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1728 Registered: Nov-05 | As for suggestions I'll add my two cents worth with any Musical Fidelity amp from the A5 upwards, but again you're getting into serious money territory. I read more than once people liking MF with higher end B&W's. Like the others have been saying, those speakers require truckloads of power (especially in peak to peak amps). Heck, I had some humble 602S3's (also with a dip to around 3 ohms impedence and they played much better with the higher power NAD amp than my Marantz receiver. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 1501 Registered: Oct-04 | Stay on budget: |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 105 Registered: Jul-07 | Back to your question above, Simaudio would certainly be a capable alternative, but if you've never heard any of their gear it's impossible to know whether you'd like the music it would make through these speakers. And, Moon series separates would blow your budget almost as quick as Classe or Mac. Being opportunistic in the used market seems like the only way to line something proper up behind these speakers at that price range. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2256 Registered: May-05 | If you're spending $4K, the Bryston B100 should be in the equation. Great synergy with B&W, will power just about anything on the planet, and has a 20 year transferrable warantee, making it a very safe bet used. The last one is more expensive due to remote control and internal DAC. The DAC option may be well worth the investment. Buy one of the first two and add a universal remote (which will work according to Bryston's VP of marketing). Add a Naim CD5i or a Rega Saturn, and you've got a system that very few can come anywhere near. Or go with the B100 with an internal DAC and get a less expensive CD player. The Rega Apollo may fit the bill or be overkill if you're going the DAC route. I haven't played with any DAC/transport systems to have a good answer. Bryston makes a CD player, which would probably be my first choice if going the Bryston route. I haven't heard it, and I'm not sure if it fits in the budget. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2525 Registered: Sep-04 | Bugs, I'm with Jan all the way on this one. The dealer should have scoped you out properly to find out what system you'd be matching to the B&Ws. They are an awkward load at best and really need quality power to drive them and a quality signal to start with. If it were up to me, I'd be telling you to take back the speakers and ask what system you should be looking at for £11k (your $4k + cost of 803Ds). I'll bet you'd not end up woth 803Ds! Of course, being cynical one could assume that the dealer is rubbing his hands with glee as he expects you to come back for (far) more. What a way to put a system together...(shakes head in despair) Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 58 Registered: May-05 | Thank you very much guys, You guys are right, I need to beg for mo' money so, WAF comes in play big time now  I see myself going with her to the shopping malls quite often in the near future  I will be driving down South to San Anton (Yes, Margaritas by the Riverwalk) for the weekend as a very close friend of mine (28 years of friendship) is letting me take his MA6900 home to try it with the 803D's; if I like it (I know I will) he is gonna sell it to me for $3,800.00. I found some cheaper on Audiogon but this one is supposed to be in pristine condition. Now, in search of a CD Player. This is fun but not easy! Thanks again to everyone who posted on this thread. Regards |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2263 Registered: May-05 | The MA 6900 is one of the best integrated amps there is regardless of price. Buy from your friend rather than someone off the street. Forget about saving a few bucks and buying a MA 6900 from someone else just to save a few bucks. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 1507 Registered: Oct-04 | You will not do any better than that. Good luck! |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 720 Registered: Jun-07 | I like Stu's post about considering Bryston. Stu I heard the Bryston cd player, knocked my socks off, 5 grand CDN though. wowsers. But probably worth it. Ive been keeping my eyes open for used MA6900's in Canada. |
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